Z Jacobson on thu 4 sep 08
Hi
Can someone help me understand when and how to use the different mediums yo=
u can add to glazes to make them more brushable - brushing medium=2C CMC=2C=
Veegum????? I've never have had much luck with any of them. How are they s=
upposed to be added? In what quantities? Why use one over another?
Thanxs in advance.
Z Jacobson
Z Jacobson=0A=
Wildly Energetic Ceramics=0A=
www.zjacobsonart.com Santa Fe=2C NM 87501=0A=
Paul Lewing on thu 4 sep 08
On Sep 4, 2008, at 4:33 PM, Ric Swenson wrote:
Maybe try going to the pharmacy and buy a small bottle of GYCERIN.
It is added to oxides/stains to make them flow and brush more a more
fluid way. It doesn't take much. Add a little and see the
results...add a bit more. You will find your comfort level.
If this works for you (I have no idea if it will or not) you might
want to try some cheaper alternatives to buying glycerin by the half
pint at the drug store. Glycerin is one of a class of chemicals
called double alcohols. There are several others, and they all have
similar properties- water soluble, non-toxicity (almost all of them)
a "greasy" feel on your skin, and a tendency to not dry (almost all
of them). The easiest to find and cheapest is ethylene glycol, which
is regular antifreeze. It's the only one of the group that's toxic,
but only if you drink it. Keep it away from your pets. Another
readily available one is propylene glycol. It's "environmentally
friendly" antifreeze. Some ceramic supply places also carry it.
Another is polyethylene glycol. It's the only one of the bunch that
actually dries. It's sold under several brand names in gallon jugs
in medical supply stores as a laxative, but it's not easy to find.
There are other glycols, but their properties are so similar to these
that it's not worth searching for them.
Paul Lewing
www.paullewingtile.com
Suchman ceramics on thu 4 sep 08
Try using egg yolk.... either straight or mixed 50/50 with water. It will
cure and you can then over glaze yet again..... I have some experience with
egg tempera and a very small experience with china paints. As a medium it is
quite nice for a painterly effect. Give it a try. -e-in-oside-
pagan by nature
Veena Raghavan on fri 5 sep 08
Thank you, Paul, for your very comprehensive description of brushing mediums.
I have used glycerine with success, but it is expensive, so I am delighted
that there are other mediums that can be used instead. As always, you are a
fount of information.
Thank you so much.
I do love Clayart!
Veena
In a message dated 9/4/2008 11:39:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
pjlewing@COMCAST.NET writes:
> Glycerin is one of a class of chemicals
> called double alcohols. There are several others, and they all have
> similar properties- water soluble, non-toxicity (almost all of them)
> a "greasy" feel on your skin, and a tendency to not dry (almost all
> of them). The easiest to find and cheapest is ethylene glycol, which
> is regular antifreeze. It's the only one of the group that's toxic,
> but only if you drink it. Keep it away from your pets. Another
> readily available one is propylene glycol. It's "environmentally
> friendly" antifreeze. Some ceramic supply places also carry it.
> Another is polyethylene glycol. It's the only one of the bunch that
> actually dries. It's sold under several brand names in gallon jugs
> in medical supply stores as a laxative, but it's not easy to find.
> There are other glycols, but their properties are so similar to these
> that it's not worth searching for them.
> Paul Lewing
VeenaRaghavan@cs.com
James F on fri 5 sep 08
> Another is polyethylene glycol. It's the only one of the bunch that
> actually dries. It's sold under several brand names in gallon jugs
> in medical supply stores as a laxative=2C but it's not easy to find.
> www.paullewingtile.com
Paul=2C et al...
Just wanted to mention that you can also purchase polyethylene glycol throu=
gh woodworking stores and mail order suppliers such as Rockler (www.rockler=
.com). It is sold as a wood stabilizer=2C and is sometimes used by lathe t=
urners who work green wood. It is about $42 per gallon=2C which is probabl=
y much cheaper than buying laxative
All the best.
...James.
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Z Jacobson on fri 5 sep 08
Wow=2C who would have thunk there would be so many alternative solutions to=
making something more brushable?? A quick trip to the drugstore yielded an=
inexpensive container of suppositories. My thinking at the time was that t=
hey are glycerin and even though they are solid - or almost - they could po=
ssibly be nuked to make them liquid. But now=2C I'm wondering if I was thin=
king of this correctly...they do have some inactive ingredients - sodium hy=
droxide and stearic acid - I suppose to make them solid. Will these ingredi=
ents do the same thing after they are warmed? Make tiny solid chunks in my =
glaze? Has any one had any experience with this or have a guess about my th=
eory?
And on the subject....I thought brushing medium=2C CGC=2C Veegum were prett=
y standard additions to glazes to increase brushablility. I'd still like to=
know how to use them correctly weather or not the suppositories work
thanxs
Z Jacobson=0A=
Wildly Energetic Ceramics=0A=
www.zjacobsonart.com Santa Fe=2C NM 87501=0A=
Paul Lewing on fri 5 sep 08
On Sep 5, 2008, at 10:06 AM, Z Jacobson wrote:
And on the subject....I thought brushing medium, CGC, Veegum were
pretty standard additions to glazes to increase brushablility. I'd
still like to know how to use them correctly weather or not the
suppositories work
In stuff like underglazes, what's added to improve brushability is
usually some kind of gum, although it's probably impossible to find
out exactly what kind.
As to the suppositories, I think you're just getting into added
expense and added work to start with them. Might as well start with
a liquid if a liquid is what you want. Especially since, if you
microwave them to get them liquid, they will just set up again when
they cool.
Another large category of products available at drug stores that
would work for this is what's known as "personal lubricants".
They're almost always glycerin, water, and propylene glycol. They
usually, like the suppositories, have some other ingredients. Those
are almost always preservatives, antibacterials, and antifungals, and
maybe some scent.
Paul Lewing
www.paullewingtile.com
Ric Swenson on fri 5 sep 08
Maybe try going to the pharmacy and buy a small bottle of GYCERIN. It is added to oxides/stains to make them flow and brush more a more fluid way. It doesn't take much. Add a little and see the results...add a bit more. You will find your comfort level.
Hope this helps.
Ric
> Hi> Can someone help me understand when and how to use the different mediums you can add to glazes to make them more brushable - brushing medium, CMC, Veegum????? I've never have had much luck with any of them. How are they supposed to be added? In what quantities? Why use one over another?
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marta matray on sun 7 sep 08
steve wrote: >>>Now if you'd said "another use" that
would imply that this is the second use. But to say 'YET another'=20
implies at least three total uses, possibly more.
So what do *you* do with KY in the studio?>>>=20
=A0
com'on guys, steve and russel,=20
what are you talking about? i checked vince's book,=20
as i always do when i dont understand something-=20
but there is nothing there called KY... is it=20
a throwing=A0medium for porcelain??? why?=20
=A0
marta=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
http://users.skynet.be/russel.fouts/Marta.htm
=0A=0A=0A
Chip Richards on sun 7 sep 08
On Thu, Sep 04, 2008 at 07:05:37AM -0600, Z Jacobson wrote:
> Can someone help me understand when and how to use the different mediums you
> can add to glazes to make them more brushable - brushing medium, CMC,
> Veegum????? I've never have had much luck with any of them. How are they
> supposed to be added? In what quantities? Why use one over another?
I went through a whole parade of brushability enhancers in my first year, and
each new thing I tried seemed like "This is the answer at last!" But soon,
each revealed its shortcomings.
Glycerine is, as pointed out elsewhere in this thread, hideously expensive,
though its effect is quite nice. The glycols (like antifreeze) are pretty
good too, but seem to somehow lose their oomph after a while, even as little
as a few hours. One thing that I was quite fond of for a while was corn
syrup, but it has the problem of being a magnet for all sorts of Growing Crud,
and while that nasty black, green, white, orange, and other colors of mold and
mildew will burn out in the firing, it's ugly and yucky and can actually clump
and mess up your brushing if it grows long and hard enough. Syrup is cheap,
though, and makes your glaze stick to anything, even things you don't want it
to stick to. It also makes the glaze dry iron hard (but very slowly), so you
can glaze over it or bump it pretty hard and it won't flake off. I still use
it in special cases, mixed at the last minute before use. CMC liquid is good,
but it's not good enough if you want your glaze to flow like anything even
close to paint. Combinations of the above are somewhat better, but never
quite enough.
I eventually settled on bentonite plus Laguna brushing medium. (I assume
other brushing media are just as good, but I've only tried the Laguna.) I mix
both as dry powders with the dry glaze, put it all into a wide-mouthed plastic
bottle, screw the lid on tight, and shake the bejeepers out of it. (Be sure
to wear a respirator!) I then use CMC mix to turn it into a liquid glaze, but
that's just a habit and probably isn't necessary. I assume the medium works
so well because it contains some of the more aggressive (and expensive) gums
like arabic or tragacanth, and probably some sort of organo-glyco-polymer-
whatever. And I think the bentonite contributes only a little to the
brushability, but supposedly it helps a lot to keep the glaze particles
suspended instead of settling to the bottom.
As for proportions, here's what works for me:
Bentonite: 1.5% dry weight. That is, for every 100 grams of dry glaze powder,
I add 1.5 grams of bentonite powder.
Brushing medium: 1.2% dry weight. If you get a liquid brushing medium, I
guess follow the instructions that come with it, if any, or just use it in
place of water when mixing your glaze if none.
CMC: I mix 2 cups (about 500ml, half a liter) of warm water with 15 grams of
dry CMC powder. The powder will clump, but if you let it sit for a day, shake
it every few hours whenever you think of it, it'll melt nicely and make a
smooth syrupy liquid. I then mix that 1:3 with pure water; if you dilute the
whole batch, that would be an extra 6 cups of water, making about 8 cups of
"mix". I keep mine in a 2-liter soda bottle. (And now everyone can tell what
a small-scale glazemaker I am!) I then use the diluted mix instead of water
to turn dry glaze into liquid glaze.
Proportions for that depend on the type of powder you're hydrating: clay-heavy
stuff like underglaze/engobe mixes may be fine with 1ml (or even more) of
liquid to 1g of powder, but a frit- or spar-heavy glaze powder will probably
be way too thin at that level. I start those off at around 1ml of liquid to
1.5 to 2g of powder, and thin it if necessary. Err on the side of using less
liquid at first, because you can thin more easily than thicken.
Please to bear in mind that I'm a rank amateur, and I may be missing the One
True Grail of glaze brushability. But this is what works for me, and I find
glazes mixed via the above process to be quite nice to use. Hope this helps!
--
Chip
mea rhee on sun 7 sep 08
I admit I've never tried this, because my style of brushwork doesn't
need it. But when I once treated myself to a hand-made deer tail brush
(which I can't live without now), the brushmaker said that Dawn
Dishwashing Liquid makes an excellent brushing medium for pottery
glazes, because it is the only major brand of dish soap that contains
glycerin.
Not sure how much that's worth, definitely a cheap and accessible
experiment.
Mea Rhee
Steve Slatin on sun 7 sep 08
Russel --
Now if you'd said "another use" that
would imply that this is the second
use. But to say 'YET another' implies
at least three total uses, possibly
more.
So what do *you* do with KY in the
studio?
Steve S
--- On Sun, 9/7/08, Russel Fouts wrote:
> Paul,
>
> >> Another large category of products available at
> drug stores that
> would work for this is what's known as "personal
> lubricants". <<
>
> YAY!! yet another use for KY in the studio!
>
> Did you discover that through deliberate research or just
> grab
> whatever came to hand? ;-)
>
> Ru (a very early clayart thread covered it as a throwing
> medium for porcelain.)
>
>
>
> Russel Fouts
Russel Fouts on mon 8 sep 08
Paul,
>> Another large category of products available at drug stores that
would work for this is what's known as "personal lubricants". <<
YAY!! yet another use for KY in the studio!
Did you discover that through deliberate research or just grab
whatever came to hand? ;-)
Ru (a very early clayart thread covered it as a throwing medium for porcelain.)
Russel Fouts
Mes Potes & Mes Pots
Brussels, Belgium
Tel: +32 2 223 02 75
Mobile: +32 476 55 38 75
Http://www.mypots.com
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