Mel Jacobson on sat 29 nov 97
mr. uchida always said...`let your customers pick what they want....price
your work by size...so much per inch, and do not push your taste in color
or form on your customers`..............`they will decide what they like
and want, and then pay for it.`.
i have watched artists for years try to price `special pots, or glazes at
high price, and bargain things they do not like.`
over 35 years, on many occasions, a customer will come to my shop, pick up
a sick blue platter, blemish on the front....and crack in the ring
foot......start to sing its praise.....and i can feel myself wanting to
tell them they are full of `XXXX`..............and then i hear mr. uchida....
`let them decide`......................and they think the piece is worth
twice the price. they just bought a gem, and i did not realize how good it
was.....just gave it away.
so, i agree with marcia s. ego often rules our opinions....we always
know what is best.....................but sometimes, often in fact, we are
clouded by our own needs and feelings.....and cannot see at all what is
good. so, i have to remind myself often to just put out the work,
price it...........and let the customer decide.
i often go back into the house when buyers come.....turn on lights,
let them be.
they call me when they have decided.
it works best.
i love the idea of anyone of you going to a big ceramics show, full of
pots, and having the artists tell `you` what to buy....or what is good.
you will make that choice....and you would be offended beyond knowing if
someone told you what to do, or better yet, someone told you not to buy the
piece that you have selected. give your customers that courtesy.
mel. mn.
http://www.pclink.com/melpots
George Mackie on sun 30 nov 97
Mel I cant say I agree with Mr Uchida (let your customers decide what they
like .... price by the inch). Some pots ARE better than others and who
should know this better than the person who made them. Its a point of
pride surely - you have your standards and if a pot fails to come up to
them it is worth less than one which does. The world is full of flakey
people who will buy bad pots but we shouldnt pander to them. One
should be completely ruthless about pricing according to quality. George
Mel Jacobson on sun 30 nov 97
At 12:05 PM 11/29/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Mel I cant say I agree with Mr Uchida (let your customers decide what they
>like .... price by the inch). Some pots ARE better than others and who
>should know this better than the person who made them. Its a point of
>pride surely - you have your standards and if a pot fails to come up to
>them it is worth less than one which does. The world is full of flakey
>people who will buy bad pots but we shouldnt pander to them. One
>should be completely ruthless about pricing according to quality. George
>
>
>george...one assumes that we do not make junk.
or put out junk...i have posted many times that the hammer is the potters best friend.
if a standard is set, and you make a product that has value,
one can price by the inch.
i have always assumed that if you make junk, one will not
have customers worth a damn either.
i always price by size. and always will.
i respect your position....
p.s. if one gets 200 bucks and inch it had better be really good pots.
mel
http://www.pclink.com/melpots
shelford on mon 1 dec 97
Re:
>>Mel I cant say I agree with Mr Uchida (let your customers decide what they
>>like .... price by the inch). Some pots ARE better than others
and
>i always price by size. and always will.
>i respect your position....
>
>p.s. if one gets 200 bucks and inch it had better be really good pots.
>mel
Now here's a subject for some creative compromise - seems to me there's lots
of options. I mean - there's inches AND inches. Take a small bowl, say, 5
ins. diameter, and 4 inches high. Lets say (never mind $200) a modest
dollar fifty an inch.
Well -
5 inches diameter = $7.50
15.7 inches circumferance = $23.55
78.75 square inches area = $188.13
315 cubic inches volume = $472.5
(Hmmmm - I suspect if I went for volume sales, I wouldn't sell much
volume....)
Pricing by personal valuation means making decisions, which is too wearing.
I think I'll fall back on mel's/mr. uchida's philosophy, which I like the
sound of anyway. But now I have to settle on WHICH inches. More decisions???
- Veronica
___________________________________________
Veronica Shelford
e-mail: shelford@island.net
s-mail: P.O. Box 6-15
Thetis Island, BC V0R 2Y0
Tel: (250) 246-1509
Talbott on mon 1 dec 97
I usually have a display area for seconds that is labeled as such. I
discount the price significantly and I point out to the customer why the
item is a second. At the end of the season I post a sign on the seconds
section which states: "Make an Offer" and this usually moves seconds rights
out the door. If an item is really junk or unsafe, cracked, badly
blistered, etc. then it is trashed to begin with.
The size of an item is not the only factor for price determination. The
quality, size, glaze appearance, and overall artistic value of the item are
the primary determiners of its retail price. Most pottery customers
realize this and can see difference in qualities between one pot and
another. Much like a painting... bigger is not necessarily better.
....Marshall
Stephen Mills on mon 1 dec 97
I think Sensai Uchida was pretty near right; we all have differing
tastes and differing approaches to the same pot or pots which don't
necessarily agree with the maker's assessment of his own work. Sometimes
we are too close to take a completely objective view of a piece that,
perhaps, has not come up to our pre-conception.
Steve
Bath
UK
where it's cold wet & horrid now!
In message , George Mackie writes
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Mel I cant say I agree with Mr Uchida (let your customers decide what they
>like .... price by the inch). Some pots ARE better than others and who
>should know this better than the person who made them. Its a point of
>pride surely - you have your standards and if a pot fails to come up to
>them it is worth less than one which does. The world is full of flakey
>people who will buy bad pots but we shouldnt pander to them. One
>should be completely ruthless about pricing according to quality. George
>
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
home tel: (44) (0)1225 311699
work tel: (44) (0)1225 337046
Wilkinson on tue 2 dec 97
Steve wrote:
> I think Sensai Uchida was pretty near right; we all have differing
> tastes and differing approaches to the same pot or pots which don't
> necessarily agree with the maker's assessment of his own work. Sometimes
> we are too close to take a completely objective view of a piece that,
> perhaps, has not come up to our pre-conception.
After this past weekend I have to agree with him. About 5 years ago we
made a compote that Tim and I had hoped would turn out blue and tan but
ended up gray and tan. It had to be the ugliest thing ever done but we
took it from show to show putting it in the least obscure spot just as a
reminder of our beginnings. Wouldn't you know some gal picked it out of
that dark spot on the shelf this past weekend and thought she had found a
treasure. I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I wonder how much
is now land fill that might have been placed on someone's mantle.
Lori
Roswell, NM
LorWilk@dfn.com
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/1165
Sandra Dwiggins on wed 3 dec 97
Veronica--
This really is interesting. What would you price this bowl at right
now--without worrying about the inches? Just to see if there is an
intrinsic intuitive sense about this pricing bit....
Sandy
shelford on thu 4 dec 97
Hi Sandy -
Facetiousness apart, if there is any intrinsic intuition about pricing, I
haven't got it. Pricing by the inch just means pricing by some standard,
non-aesthetic measure. If I were selling that 5"x4" bowl (assuming no major
flaws) I would go to my spreadsheet, where I have set out all the normal
expenses in a grid, and it gives me a reasonable, middle-of-the-road price.
E.g. -
1. weight of clay used (my equivalent to inches) X clay price (upped to
include time and cost in getting the stuff, and average glaze material cost
added as a percentage of clay weight)
2. time for throwing & glazing, & extra for handles or carving or whatever X
my price per hour ($15)
3. firing cost (formula given by BC Hydro for the electric kiln), and
assuming an average number of pieces per kiln load and an average firing
time for my normal way of working
4. equipment depreciation (wild guess @ 5 cents a minute)
5. cost of any extras, like corks, bamboo handles, etc.
6. 10% for overhead (i.e. all the stuff I haven't thought of)
On that basis, the very simple bowl with no special decoration or additions,
would be
1. 400 grams @ $0.30 / 100 grams = $1.20
2. time: 15 minutes @ $15/hour = $3.75
3. firing: (watts x operating hours / 1000 x.06) = $0.37
4. equipment depreciation = $0.75
5. cost of extras = 0
6. 10% overhead = $0.61
--------
$6.68
which I would probably make $6.75 to be tidy. That is selling from the
studio. The shops I sell through add anywhere from 10% to 40%, so that
could push it as high as $10. At this level, my prices are average to
slightly below average. Bear in mind these are Canadian dollars - in US
this would mean about 30-40% less.
Any seat-of-the-pants adjustment will be made in how much I want to "take
home" per hour. If I go from $15 to $10 per hour, it would knock about
$1.38 off the total.
All this is by way of giving me some peace of mind about pricing - it's
probably never-never land in terms of reality. As this is not our major
source of income, it's less clear when reality and theory diverge. I'll be
interested if any other spreadsheet types see any glaring gaps in my reasoning.
- Veronica
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Veronica--
>This really is interesting. What would you price this bowl at right
>now--without worrying about the inches? Just to see if there is an
>intrinsic intuitive sense about this pricing bit....
>Sandy
>
>
___________________________________________
Veronica Shelford
e-mail: shelford@island.net
s-mail: P.O. Box 6-15
Thetis Island, BC V0R 2Y0
Tel: (250) 246-1509
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