mel jacobson on sat 6 sep 08
yes, this is a blow, and to walk away and not let anyone
know is even harder.
it might be in the interest of many of us to drop a note
to orton, and see that they see our support.
they are A natural to take this project on...perhaps even
buy the inventory from dawson....as they are gone.
remember folks...LOOK AROUND FOR OLD KILNS, THOSE THAT
HAVE KILN SITTERS ON THEM...PARTS FOREVER.
A SITTER CAN BE REMOVED IN ABOUT TEN MINUTES.
PACKED AWAY FOR ANOTHER DAY...AND IT MAY PAY
AS E-BAY WILL BE LOOKING FOR THEM.
MEL
from minnetonka:
website http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
clayart site:
http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
W J Seidl on sat 6 sep 08
Hmmm....do I sense a conspiracy here?
First, no more Albany Slip.
Then, no more Walker pug mills.
Then, they took away lead and uranium for glazes.
Then, no more Lockerbie wheels.
Now, no kiln sitters.
Could the "powers that be" be trying (unsuccessfully, I would hazard to
guess)
to drag us kicking and screaming into the 19th century?
Just joking of course. Still, I would never willingly give up my kiln
sitter. It gives me a sense
of security, knowing it's set...even though I sit through each and every
firing anyway.
(How else is a potter to catch up on their reading/napping/playing with
the pets/glaze mixing/clay wedging etc.?)
Jeez!
Wayne Seidl
when the computer on your truck fails at 75 mph on a busy freeway,
and you lose your engine, power steering, AC and brakes, you begin
to question the wisdom of relying on an electronic component
that "does everything for you".
mel jacobson wrote:
> yes, this is a blow, and to walk away and not let anyone
> know is even harder.
>
> it might be in the interest of many of us to drop a note
> to orton, and see that they see our support.
>
> they are A natural to take this project on...perhaps even
> buy the inventory from dawson....as they are gone.
>
> remember folks...LOOK AROUND FOR OLD KILNS, THOSE THAT
> HAVE KILN SITTERS ON THEM...PARTS FOREVER.
> A SITTER CAN BE REMOVED IN ABOUT TEN MINUTES.
> PACKED AWAY FOR ANOTHER DAY...AND IT MAY PAY
> AS E-BAY WILL BE LOOKING FOR THEM.
> MEL
> from minnetonka:
> website http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
> clayart site:
> http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
>
>
John Rodgers on sat 6 sep 08
For many, the kilns are life savers - takes a bit of load off from
needing to watch the kiln every moment. However, good firing can be done
without them.
My first heavy duty firings without a kiln sitter came when I began
working with a gas kiln. I learned a whole new set of techniques in
working with peepholes, guard cone sets and cone pats. Much later I
acquired a very old Olympic Electric kiln - no kiln sitter was installed
at all. Wasn't even a place for it. A series of switches on the front
and that was it. Each switch was a power switch and controlled one set
of two elements. Smoothest firing kiln I ever owned. I installed a
pyrometer - the tip was not covered as I wanted a rapid response on the
guage, and I put cones on a post or shelf by a mid mounted peep hole.
When the pyrometer indicated being very close to maturity for the
firing, I would begin to visually check the cones.Depending on what I
was trying to achieve, I monitors the cones through the bending - from
very slight bend to full tip down to the shelf. This method produced the
best firings ever of all the kilns I ever owned.- event he new automated
ones. It is difficult to beat a the combination of a good pyrometer and
a calibrated eyeball.
Kiln sitters are nice, but the end of the world has not come it they
disappear completely. GEt a good quality pyrometer, calibrate the 'ol
eyeball, and look through the peephole at the cones ---- but be sure and
do it with welding safety goggles. A kiln at those temperatures gives
off a lot of UV and IR. Yo do not want a burned out retina!!
Regards,
John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL
mel jacobson wrote:
> yes, this is a blow, and to walk away and not let anyone
> know is even harder.
>
> it might be in the interest of many of us to drop a note
> to orton, and see that they see our support.
>
> they are A natural to take this project on...perhaps even
> buy the inventory from dawson....as they are gone.
>
> remember folks...LOOK AROUND FOR OLD KILNS, THOSE THAT
> HAVE KILN SITTERS ON THEM...PARTS FOREVER.
> A SITTER CAN BE REMOVED IN ABOUT TEN MINUTES.
> PACKED AWAY FOR ANOTHER DAY...AND IT MAY PAY
> AS E-BAY WILL BE LOOKING FOR THEM.
> MEL
> from minnetonka:
> website http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
> clayart site:
> http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
>
>
>
John Post on sat 6 sep 08
When Gerstley stopped being mined I wrote a clay art post telling
folks who used it to estimate how much they would need to last for the
rest of their potting career. A couple potters took that advice and
one even ordered a full pallet of the stuff.
If I was a potter who liked firing with kiln sitters, I would estimate
how many I needed for the rest of my career and call my clay supplier
and order them on Monday.
I personally prefer computer controlled kilns, so it is no big loss
for me.
Kiln sitter failure is the number one reason for kilns over firing.
Folks tend to trust them to shut off the kiln and they don't always
work. There is no substitute for witness cones next to the peepholes.
I have two computer kilns at school and one with a kiln sitter.
I like to have the kiln sitter one fire on low with one or two
switches on over night and then when I arrive in the morning
immediately turn on the other 3 or 4 switches. The kiln hits its peak
temp when I am there and I can check the witness cones. Having a kiln
on low overnight is a much safer proposition than having the kiln hit
its peak temp when I am not there to make sure it shuts off.
John Post
Sterling Heights, Michigan
:: cone 6 glaze website :: http://www.johnpost.us
:: elementary art website :: http://www.wemakeart.org
On Sep 6, 2008, at 5:13 PM, mel jacobson wrote:
> yes, this is a blow, and to walk away and not let anyone
> know is even harder.
>
> it might be in the interest of many of us to drop a note
> to orton, and see that they see our support.
>
> they are A natural to take this project on...perhaps even
> buy the inventory from dawson....as they are gone.
>
> remember folks...LOOK AROUND FOR OLD KILNS, THOSE THAT
> HAVE KILN SITTERS ON THEM...PARTS FOREVER.
> A SITTER CAN BE REMOVED IN ABOUT TEN MINUTES.
> PACKED AWAY FOR ANOTHER DAY...AND IT MAY PAY
> AS E-BAY WILL BE LOOKING FOR THEM.
> MEL
> from minnetonka:
> website http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
> clayart site:
> http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
>
Steve Mills on sun 7 sep 08
--- On Sat, 9/6/08, W J Seidl wrote:
when the computer on your truck fails at 75 mph on a busy freeway,
and you lose your engine, power steering, AC and brakes, you begin
to question the wisdom of relying on an electronic component
that "does everything for you".
A situation I still get mildly paranoid about, which is why I always park (if I can)
on a hill; to "bump start" in the absence these days of a Starting Handle (Crank)
on the front of the engine. Not that it would do me any b****y good if the computer's
cooked!
Steve
Showing his age, in
Bath
UK
Jo Smith on sun 7 sep 08
when did lockerbie go extinct? Guess I will keep mine around a few more =
years, 24 yrs old and going strong! Ha, wish I could say that about me.
Jo
Posted by: "W J Seidl" wjsme@HUGHES.NET=20
Sat Sep 6, 2008 3:23 pm (PDT)=20
Hmmm....do I sense a conspiracy here?
First, no more Albany Slip.
Then, no more Walker pug mills.
Then, they took away lead and uranium for glazes.
Then, no more Lockerbie wheels.
Now, no kiln sitters.
Michael Wendt on sun 7 sep 08
Mel and John Post make good points about the
kiln sitter not being a substitute for watching the
kiln. In my case, since I have always fired gas,
witness cones and watching are ingrained.
That said, my point was that thousands of electronic
kilns could be ruined by a single power spike.
Not so with the older infinite switches and
Dawson sitter equipped kilns.
Likewise power failures.
The older designs pick up right where they
left off while computers, at least right now,
require a restart.
Still, I agree, never fire unattended.
Watch the kiln, or you will eventually be sorry.
Regards,
Michael Wendt
Wendt Pottery
2729 Clearwater Ave.
Lewiston, Id 83501
U.S.A.
208-746-3724
wendtpot@lewiston.com
http://www.wendtpottery.com
http://UniquePorcelainDesigns.com
Mel wrote:
i don't care what kind of kiln you fire...2008/state of
the art,
or a 1965 L&L. if you don't have an alarm clock in
your
pocket when you fire...you get what you deserve.
i have never trusted a dawson kiln sitter...it is an
aid
to perfect bisque firing for me. it is not failsafe.
John Post wrote:
Kiln sitter failure is the number one reason for kilns
over firing.
Folks tend to trust them to shut off the kiln and they
don't always
work. There is no substitute for witness cones next to
the peepholes.
I have two computer kilns at school and one with a kiln
sitter.
I like to have the kiln sitter one fire on low with one
or two
switches on over night and then when I arrive in the
morning
immediately turn on the other 3 or 4 switches. The
kiln hits its peak
temp when I am there and I can check the witness cones.
Having a kiln
on low overnight is a much safer proposition than
having the kiln hit
its peak temp when I am not there to make sure it shuts
off.
John Post
Sterling Heights, Michigan
gary navarre on mon 8 sep 08
--- On Sat, 9/6/08, mel jacobson wrote:
> remember folks...LOOK AROUND FOR OLD KILNS, THOSE THAT
> HAVE KILN SITTERS ON THEM...PARTS FOREVER.
> A SITTER CAN BE REMOVED IN ABOUT TEN MINUTES.
> PACKED AWAY FOR ANOTHER DAY...AND IT MAY PAY
> AS E-BAY WILL BE LOOKING FOR THEM.
> MEL
Hay Crew,
Ya man if it's one of the few things I agree with it's hold on to any kiln part, refractory, glaze sieve, piece of kiln shelf etc. you come across cause it will probably come in handy, especially if you are low budget like me. Somewhere I'd gotten an old kiln with some shelves and good controllers. I kept the pyrometer and traded the electronics to a local kiln repair guy for another pyrometer. I still have both along with the shelves and what is left of the IFB after a couple of moves. I'll be using that stuff in the new kiln later this year. Back a ways there I took the electric kiln shell and made a small wood fired kiln just to find a lower size limit to a functional wood burner called it a Hobalectric...
http://public.fotki.com/GindaUP/ca/kpap/navarres_hobalectric/
... but I wouldn't go any smaller. It is really amazing where some ridiculous looking piece of refractory I carried around for years ended up being a critical piece of brick right where it was needed no cutting involved. An over-fired kiln shelf from the front of the '86-'90 kiln has stuff stuck to it so it will be retired to being the damper plate.
I'm thinking of placing an add in the local paper looking for old kilns and bricks... aunt Ruth died and left her ceramics class stuff in her sisters basement where they made figurines and the grand kids need the space for a video game console lounge food court.
Come to think of it I still have that 5lbs. of PbO I got from the same old coot back in the '60's. Probably could have to take it to the local HAZMAT store for proper processing and not use it in my cheep glaze line so stay in there eh! (Boy I sure could lower the firing temp and get brighter colors with just a little bit of lead $$$$$$$$)
Gary Navarre
Navarre Pottery
Navarre Enterprises
Norway, Michigan, USA
http://www.youtube.com/GindaUP
http://public.fotki.com/GindaUP/
Kim Hohlmayer on tue 9 sep 08
I hate technology if I have to spend a lot of my limited creating time reading and messing with some new system. This is why I love my old kiln with a kiln sitter, pyrometer, infinite control switches and peep holes. The new kilns are great but by the time I learn to control it just the way I want I'll be too old to pot anymore.
If anyone out there has an L&L EasyFire (what they have where I am working now, couldn't afford to rewire for my kilns after we moved) and you don't live too far from eastern Ohio, I wish you would invite me over for a hands-on tutorial in programing the darn things. I'll stay at a motel and take you out to eat or even bring you the last of my real Albany Slip or real Gerstly Borate.
I am not dumb and I can read just fine but still find it confusing. I miss my old kiln. Sigh... --Kim H.
--- On Sat, 9/6/08, John Post wrote:
> From: John Post
> Subject: Re: kiln sitter/OLD KILNS
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Date: Saturday, September 6, 2008, 7:43 PM
> When Gerstley stopped being mined I wrote a clay art post
> telling
> folks who used it to estimate how much they would need to
> last for the
> rest of their potting career. A couple potters took that
> advice and
> one even ordered a full pallet of the stuff.
>
> If I was a potter who liked firing with kiln sitters, I
> would estimate
> how many I needed for the rest of my career and call my
> clay supplier
> and order them on Monday.
>
> I personally prefer computer controlled kilns, so it is no
> big loss
> for me.
>
> Kiln sitter failure is the number one reason for kilns over
> firing.
> Folks tend to trust them to shut off the kiln and they
> don't always
> work. There is no substitute for witness cones next to the
> peepholes.
>
> I have two computer kilns at school and one with a kiln
> sitter.
>
> I like to have the kiln sitter one fire on low with one or
> two
> switches on over night and then when I arrive in the
> morning
> immediately turn on the other 3 or 4 switches. The kiln
> hits its peak
> temp when I am there and I can check the witness cones.
> Having a kiln
> on low overnight is a much safer proposition than having
> the kiln hit
> its peak temp when I am not there to make sure it shuts
> off.
>
> John Post
> Sterling Heights, Michigan
>
> :: cone 6 glaze website :: http://www.johnpost.us
> :: elementary art website :: http://www.wemakeart.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 6, 2008, at 5:13 PM, mel jacobson wrote:
>
> > yes, this is a blow, and to walk away and not let
> anyone
> > know is even harder.
> >
> > it might be in the interest of many of us to drop a
> note
> > to orton, and see that they see our support.
> >
> > they are A natural to take this project on...perhaps
> even
> > buy the inventory from dawson....as they are gone.
> >
> > remember folks...LOOK AROUND FOR OLD KILNS, THOSE THAT
> > HAVE KILN SITTERS ON THEM...PARTS FOREVER.
> > A SITTER CAN BE REMOVED IN ABOUT TEN MINUTES.
> > PACKED AWAY FOR ANOTHER DAY...AND IT MAY PAY
> > AS E-BAY WILL BE LOOKING FOR THEM.
> > MEL
> > from minnetonka:
> > website http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
> > clayart site:
> > http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
> >
William & Susan Schran User on tue 9 sep 08
On 9/9/08 11:00 AM, "Kim Hohlmayer" wrote:
> If anyone out there has an L&L EasyFire (what they have where I am worki=
ng
> now, couldn't afford to rewire for my kilns after we moved) and you don't=
live
> too far from eastern Ohio, I wish you would invite me over for a hands-on
> tutorial in programing the darn things. I'll stay at a motel and take yo=
u out
> to eat or even bring you the last of my real Albany Slip or real Gerstly
> Borate.
> I am not dumb and I can read just fine but still find it confusing. =
I
> miss my old kiln. Sigh...
I got an L&L EasyFire for doing my crystalline glaze firings after several
years of doing those firings in an older manual kiln. I resisted getting th=
e
programmable kiln because I didn't think I needed it and felt like I would
lose control of the firings somehow.
But now, I wonder why I waited so long! I feel like I have much more contro=
l
over an exacting and complicated firing schedule.
I am like you, I can't sit there and read the manual and at the same time
understand what the heck it means. I have to do it, not read about it. So I
sat down at the kiln, with the manual, and just went through it - entering
programs that were written as examples, then turning off the kiln and
starting again. Think of it like learning to throw on the wheel - you just
gotta do it over & over until it makes sense.
Now, here's the revelation - shhhh, don't tell anybody! - It's really simpl=
e
if you think about it this way - You're telling the kiln to do only three
simple things: #1) how fast you want the heat to rise - ex: 250=B0F per hour.
#2) what temperature you want it to go to - ex:2232=B0F. #3) if you want the
temperature to be held at that point for any length of time - ex: 2232=B0F,
hold 10 minutes. That's it! That's all you're doing!
For the L&L kiln, in the vari-fire mode (I've never used the easy fire
programs, but they already have heating ramps programmed into them), you
will have "segments". For each segment you will enter the heating (or
cooling) rate, the temperature that segment will go to and if there will be
a hold at that temperature.
If you right it out that way on paper, then read from the paper when you
enter the numbers that will help.
I often will program 7 or 8 segments for my crystalline firings and I have
colleagues that are linking two programs to create a 16 segment firing!
Let me know if you have any specific questions.
One last thing, watch the DVD instructional video that came with the kiln a
few times, that will also help.
Bill
--=20
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Arnold Howard on tue 9 sep 08
From: "Kim Hohlmayer"
> I am not dumb and I can read just fine but still find
> it confusing. I miss my old kiln. Sigh... --Kim H.
Kim, what are your questions about the controller?
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
Kim Hohlmayer on thu 11 sep 08
Thank you, Arnold! I won't be back at work until Monday but the minute I get there I will go through that manual and write down what is confusing me so I can be nice and specific. Then when I get to the library Tuesday I will email them to you. Thank you!!! --Kim H.
--- On Tue, 9/9/08, Arnold Howard wrote:
> From: Arnold Howard
> Subject: Re: kiln sitter/OLD KILNS
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Date: Tuesday, September 9, 2008, 1:10 PM
> From: "Kim Hohlmayer"
>
> > I am not dumb and I can read just fine but still
> find
> > it confusing. I miss my old kiln. Sigh... --Kim
> H.
>
> Kim, what are your questions about the controller?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Arnold Howard
> Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
> ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
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