The Fuzzy Chef on wed 10 sep 08
Sacred,
> On another subject, I got into a disagreement about the need for a
> kiln vent for the new studio that's being built in the local area, of
> which I will teach. My friend is of belief that you can fire the kiln
> at night when no one's there and it will be OK the next day.
And *sure* you can stick to that schedule 100% of the time.
You might want to check if your insurance requires you to have a
ventilation system. It may.
--Fuzzy
Elizabeth Priddy on wed 10 sep 08
The PLAN to only fire at night never actually works out.
=A0
Why is the kiln in the work space, anyway?
=A0
I=A0charge my students by the month so that if one gets all
annoying, I simply tell them that the studio is too crowded and they
can't re-up.=A0 I tell them other places they can do clay, but being
a PITA is the first step out=A0 of my studio.
=A0
Can't you give them their money back and make them go away?
Elizabeth Priddy
Beaufort, NC - USA
Workshops and pottery online at:
http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
Natural Instincts Conference Information:
http://downtothepottershouse.com/NaturalInstincts.html
Kiln pictures and such:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7973282@N03/
--- On Wed, 9/10/08, sacredclay wrote:
From: sacredclay
Subject: Kiln vent, first day of class, and some hair pulling--long rant
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 9:34 PM
Earlier this week I started a new session of teaching a combo class. I
had one returning student and two new ones. Should be a nice easy
class in the middle of the week, but alas, I realized that some
serious issues needed to be addressed by me or there will be too much
tensions. At one time or another, every teacher have had one of them
in their classes. You know the one, the one that goes by many names,
but in this case, it's
"I-know-what-the-hell-I'm-doing-but-I-want-you-to-stop-talking-and-focus-on=
-me-only"
This one also had a last name. It's
"I-don't-have-time-to-finish-this-so-I-want-you-to-make-the-rest-for-me."
I saw out of the corner of my eyes how the jaws dropped of the other
students. I told her that I will NOT do it for her, but I will show
her a few quick shortcuts. The request was repeated several times, and
again, my response remained the same. But with a smile! I've learned
to smile when I say no, instead of growling or as was usually the case
in the past, mumbled "ok" and got angry at myself later on. She
co-opted the other more experienced student's time to show her how to
use the slab roller, which I was going to show anyway. I was focusing
on the one student that had never touched clay before. I had a project
for next week, but the insistent one wants to start on the wheel the
following week, even though I've recommended waiting half way through
the session to start. I thought about this all day. I see alot of
problems developing in the future. I've decided that my best bet is to
e-mail all of them about my outline of class, which I should have had
prepared to begin with. Hopefully, this will resolve the problem with
a few firm reminders with a smile.
On another subject, I got into a disagreement about the need for a
kiln vent for the new studio that's being built in the local area, of
which I will teach. My friend is of belief that you can fire the kiln
at night when no one's there and it will be OK the next day. I
believe that there is still some residual danger even if the kiln has
cooled off, because the offending fumes will still be lingering in the
air. I went on about the danger of silicosis and other respiratory
problems and my friend said, "I jog all the time. Do you think I'm
gonna have problems?" At this point, I came close to pulling all of my
hair out. he did agree to having one installed "maybe later on" but
not now, as the project has already been delayed for more than a year.
Contractors are trying to take advantage of the situation, offering to
paint the studio ceiling for five thousand dollars, which my friend
and I can do blindingly drunk with both hands tied behind our backs
for five hundred. but I will keep after my friend about the kiln vent.
With a smile. I'll try not to clench my teeth when I do it.
=0A=0A=0A
Mayssan Farra on thu 11 sep 08
Dear Kathrine:=0A=0AI only know about vents, and at that just a little bit.=
=0A=0AThe vent that you need , if you are installing one or two kilns is th=
e direct one that connects to the bottom of the kilns and is situated on th=
e wall with a dryer hole to the outside, all this cost me less than=A0$600.=
00 including the vent itself. Putting in the hole in the outside wall costs=
next to nothing when you are building.=0A=0AThe vent that is costlier, les=
s effective, and is thought of by community centers as a vent is the overhe=
ad one, that vents the air above the kilns but not straight through them. S=
o maybe if you explain to your friend that what is needed is the direct ven=
t and that it also=A0 lengthen the life of the kiln elements then maybe he =
will see the light.=0A=A0=0AMayssan Shora Farra=0Ahttp://www.clayvillepotte=
ry.com=0Ahttp://clayette.blogspot.com=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ---=
-=0AFrom: sacredclay sacredclay@GMAIL.COM=0A=0AOn another subject, I got in=
to a disagreement about the need for a=0Akiln vent for the new studio that'=
s being built in the local area, of=0Awhich I will teach. My friend is of b=
elief that you can fire the kiln=0Aat night when no one's there and it will=
be OK the next day. I=0Abelieve that there is still some residual danger e=
ven if the kiln has=0Acooled off, because the offending fumes will still be=
lingering in the=0Aair.=A0......................., offering to=0Apaint the=
studio ceiling for five thousand dollars,=A0=0A=0A=0A
William & Susan Schran User on thu 11 sep 08
On 9/10/08 9:34 PM, "sacredclay" wrote:
> On another subject, I got into a disagreement about the need for a
> kiln vent for the new studio that's being built in the local area, of
> which I will teach. My friend is of belief that you can fire the kiln
> at night when no one's there and it will be OK the next day. I
> believe that there is still some residual danger even if the kiln has
> cooled off, because the offending fumes will still be lingering in the
> air. I went on about the danger of silicosis and other respiratory
> problems and my friend said, "I jog all the time. Do you think I'm
> gonna have problems?" At this point, I came close to pulling all of my
> hair out. he did agree to having one installed "maybe later on" but
> not now, as the project has already been delayed for more than a year.
Is the kiln located in the studio or in a separate room building?
No matter if there is a vent or not, there will be fumes coming from the
kiln and the area where the kiln is located needs also to be vented -
window/ceiling exhaust.
A direct downdraft kiln vent will do more than remove nasty fumes from the
kiln, it will extend the life of the kiln! Materials that are released as
vapor or gas can slowly corrode any metal on the kiln and can cause
deterioration of the brick - so that's a good reason for the vent.
You write: you can fire the kiln
> at night when no one's there and it will be OK the next day.<
This is the part the worries me more. If this is a manual kiln and you're
relying on a Kilnsitter to shut it off, then you're just waiting for a
disaster. If it is a programmable kiln, you should program a delay start so
the kiln will turn on in the night, then be a few hundred degrees away from
the end at a time the next day when somebody is there to check the witness
cones. You are using witness cones aren't you?
Bill
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
William & Susan Schran User on thu 11 sep 08
On 9/11/08 7:03 AM, "Mayssan Farra" wrote:
> The vent that is costlier, less effective, and is thought of by community
> centers as a vent is the overhead one, that vents the air above the kilns=
but
> not straight through them. So maybe if you explain to your friend that wh=
at is
> needed is the direct vent and that it also=A0 lengthen the life of the kiln
> elements then maybe he will see the light.
I agree, sort of.
You will need both vents - direct vent on the kiln and vent for the room.
Hope nobody from the state engineers is reading this - when we were in the
process of building our kiln building to house a gas fired kiln and several
electrics - the engineers down in the capitol said we had to install a hood
vent system above all of the electric kilns. This came after the building
was nearly complete. The estimate for the vent system was $5000 - $10000. I
had about $2000 to spend. I sat down and thought real hard about the exact
wording to use and wrote a rationale to use a direct vent on each electric
kiln along with the passive venting that was already in place. I think that
the one thing that turned them was writing the kiln and vent together was U=
L
approved. So I got three kilns vented for less than $1000.
Bill
--=20
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Ric Swenson on thu 11 sep 08
ventilation is important............ Make no mistake about it............whether you are there or not. It depletes the atmosphere of the room of vital oxygen and deposits sulphorous and thus anti-thetical breathing abilities.
GASP!!
Stale air....sucks.
Who needs it? Just VENT the air....use a fan.............by next morning it will be as fresh as the air in LA.
Maybe that is ok? Maybe wait another day?
But that is just my 40 years of experience talking....
Ric
"...then fiery expedition be my wing, ..." -Wm. Shakespeare, RICHARD III, Act IV Scene III Richard H. ("Ric") Swenson, Teacher, Office of International Cooperation and Exchange of Jingdezhen Ceramic Institute, TaoYang Road, Eastern Suburb, Jingdezhen City.JiangXi Province, P.R. of China. Postal code 333001. Mobile/cellular phone : 86 13767818872 < RicSwenson0823@hotmail.com> http://www.jci.jx.cn/http://www.ricswenson.com
> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 21:22:53 -0700> From: fuzzy@AGLIODBS.COM> Subject: Re: Kiln vent, first day of class, and some hair pulling--long rant> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG> > Sacred,> > > On another subject, I got into a disagreement about the need for a> > kiln vent for the new studio that's being built in the local area, of> > which I will teach. My friend is of belief that you can fire the kiln> > at night when no one's there and it will be OK the next day.> > And *sure* you can stick to that schedule 100% of the time.> > You might want to check if your insurance requires you to have a> ventilation system. It may.> > --Fuzzy
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sacredclay on thu 11 sep 08
Earlier this week I started a new session of teaching a combo class. I
had one returning student and two new ones. Should be a nice easy
class in the middle of the week, but alas, I realized that some
serious issues needed to be addressed by me or there will be too much
tensions. At one time or another, every teacher have had one of them
in their classes. You know the one, the one that goes by many names,
but in this case, it's
"I-know-what-the-hell-I'm-doing-but-I-want-you-to-stop-talking-and-focus-on=
-me-only"
This one also had a last name. It's
"I-don't-have-time-to-finish-this-so-I-want-you-to-make-the-rest-for-me."
I saw out of the corner of my eyes how the jaws dropped of the other
students. I told her that I will NOT do it for her, but I will show
her a few quick shortcuts. The request was repeated several times, and
again, my response remained the same. But with a smile! I've learned
to smile when I say no, instead of growling or as was usually the case
in the past, mumbled "ok" and got angry at myself later on. She
co-opted the other more experienced student's time to show her how to
use the slab roller, which I was going to show anyway. I was focusing
on the one student that had never touched clay before. I had a project
for next week, but the insistent one wants to start on the wheel the
following week, even though I've recommended waiting half way through
the session to start. I thought about this all day. I see alot of
problems developing in the future. I've decided that my best bet is to
e-mail all of them about my outline of class, which I should have had
prepared to begin with. Hopefully, this will resolve the problem with
a few firm reminders with a smile.
On another subject, I got into a disagreement about the need for a
kiln vent for the new studio that's being built in the local area, of
which I will teach. My friend is of belief that you can fire the kiln
at night when no one's there and it will be OK the next day. I
believe that there is still some residual danger even if the kiln has
cooled off, because the offending fumes will still be lingering in the
air. I went on about the danger of silicosis and other respiratory
problems and my friend said, "I jog all the time. Do you think I'm
gonna have problems?" At this point, I came close to pulling all of my
hair out. he did agree to having one installed "maybe later on" but
not now, as the project has already been delayed for more than a year.
Contractors are trying to take advantage of the situation, offering to
paint the studio ceiling for five thousand dollars, which my friend
and I can do blindingly drunk with both hands tied behind our backs
for five hundred. but I will keep after my friend about the kiln vent.
With a smile. I'll try not to clench my teeth when I do it.
Kim Hohlmayer on thu 11 sep 08
My deepest empathy to you on the student with the annoying behavior and the friend who doesn't get the need for a kiln vent. But the day you two paint the ceiling while blind drunk with both hands tied behind your back, may I visit and watch because this sounds interesting. ;^) --Kim H.
--- On Wed, 9/10/08, sacredclay wrote:
> From: sacredclay
> Subject: Kiln vent, first day of class, and some hair pulling--long rant
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 9:34 PM
> Earlier this week I started a new session of teaching a
> combo class. I
> had one returning student and two new ones. Should be a
> nice easy
> class in the middle of the week, but alas, I realized that
> some
> serious issues needed to be addressed by me or there will
> be too much
> tensions. At one time or another, every teacher have had
> one of them
> in their classes. You know the one, the one that goes by
> many names,
> but in this case, it's
> "I-know-what-the-hell-I'm-doing-but-I-want-you-to-stop-talking-and-focus-on-me-only"
> This one also had a last name. It's
> "I-don't-have-time-to-finish-this-so-I-want-you-to-make-the-rest-for-me."
> I saw out of the corner of my eyes how the jaws dropped of
> the other
> students. I told her that I will NOT do it for her, but I
> will show
> her a few quick shortcuts. The request was repeated several
> times, and
> again, my response remained the same. But with a smile!
> I've learned
> to smile when I say no, instead of growling or as was
> usually the case
> in the past, mumbled "ok" and got angry at myself
> later on. She
> co-opted the other more experienced student's time to
> show her how to
> use the slab roller, which I was going to show anyway. I
> was focusing
> on the one student that had never touched clay before. I
> had a project
> for next week, but the insistent one wants to start on the
> wheel the
> following week, even though I've recommended waiting
> half way through
> the session to start. I thought about this all day. I see
> alot of
> problems developing in the future. I've decided that my
> best bet is to
> e-mail all of them about my outline of class, which I
> should have had
> prepared to begin with. Hopefully, this will resolve the
> problem with
> a few firm reminders with a smile.
> On another subject, I got into a disagreement about the
> need for a
> kiln vent for the new studio that's being built in the
> local area, of
> which I will teach. My friend is of belief that you can
> fire the kiln
> at night when no one's there and it will be OK the
> next day. I
> believe that there is still some residual danger even if
> the kiln has
> cooled off, because the offending fumes will still be
> lingering in the
> air. I went on about the danger of silicosis and other
> respiratory
> problems and my friend said, "I jog all the time. Do
> you think I'm
> gonna have problems?" At this point, I came close to
> pulling all of my
> hair out. he did agree to having one installed "maybe
> later on" but
> not now, as the project has already been delayed for more
> than a year.
> Contractors are trying to take advantage of the situation,
> offering to
> paint the studio ceiling for five thousand dollars, which
> my friend
> and I can do blindingly drunk with both hands tied behind
> our backs
> for five hundred. but I will keep after my friend about the
> kiln vent.
> With a smile. I'll try not to clench my teeth when I do
> it.
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