Kate on sat 20 sep 08
Dear Lili,
don't worry about bandwidth, you have plenty! I could give you the
technical info, but I think most of the time when people use it, it's in
a very derogatory way. "He's a little low on bandwidth" - "One short of
a six pack" - "One slice short of a sandwich". Bandwidth is the new
technology - how we get our streaming video, or our internet. And if you
are short, you don't get the video!
I have been reading this list for some time, and while I admire a lot of
people for their information, I admire YOU for your humanity. {This does
NOT mean I don't think you have valuable info, I do, but you also have
some lovely ZEN like observances, that many of us could assimilate}
I washed my car with kiln wash today - it looks lovely! {A "Wash" by any
other name . . . }
Thank you Lili
Kathy
Lili Krakowski wrote:
>
>
> So may I ask: What is Band width?
>
>
>
>
> Lili Krakowski
> Be of good courage
>
>
Vince Pitelka on sat 20 sep 08
Dear Lili-
"What is kiln wash?" would be a sensible question, and would get sensible,
courteous answers here on Clayart. But a modicum of good sense is expected.
I just Googled "kiln wash" and complete explanations came up immediately.
In this day and age, when the Internet offers such vast resources of
information, it just makes sense for that to be the first recourse.
You are right, Lili. No one deserves to be humiliated. I am sorry I said
that. It was a callous and cavalier remark, and I regret it. I joke around
a lot on Clayart, and sometimes I know I come across as a curmudgeon, but I
love teaching and I appreciate every student, and the last thing I would
ever want to do is humiliate a person. I get questions from Clayarters
off-list several times a week, and I answer every one, regardless of how
simple or basic the question is, because that is what I do.
Bandwidth has become a generic reference to Internet space. It does seem
infinite, but it is not. And here on Clayart we all know the consequences
of silly and unnecessary dialogue. It can become a trial to go through the
daily mail. So, "bandwidth" is just the extent of bytes of information that
pass through the Clayart mailbox every day.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Lili Krakowski on sat 20 sep 08
Vince writes:
"Dear Lili -
....It is important to acknowledge the existence of complete
imbeciles, total idiots, absolute morons. Anyone who would ask
such a
question without first taking the time to Google "kiln wash"
deserves to be
humiliated.
Here on Clayart, we welcome reasonable questions from novices,
but we hope
that any novice would Google a subject like that first. It's so
easy to do,
and it saves bandwidth on the Clayart list."
- Vince
I just finished reading your magnificent book. Honestly and
truly it is fabulous.
The existence of complete imbeciles, total idiots, and absolute
morons is quite evident on Wall Street as well as elsewhere....
But no one deserves to be humiliated. Humiliation is a cheap
trick, a coward's trick.
I have been at the butt end of humiliation--my accent, my looks,
and when I was a child my lisp. I have seen humiliating
"techniques" applied to others. So...no....
I Googled "kiln wash" And I did not find an explanation of what
it does! Nor how it is used! Maybe if I had scrolled down to
the bottom--right.
The most interesting thing about questions is how they are
answered. Anyone can ask
"What is Being?" as easily as she can ask "What is kiln wash".
We are instructed to answer questions in a manner suitable to the
questioner. And that is what ClayArt, AND potterybasics are
about....They do not reveal the "imbecility" of the one who asks,
but the personality of them wot answers.
So may I ask: What is Band width?
Lili Krakowski
Be of good courage
Lee Love on sun 21 sep 08
On 9/20/08, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> of silly and unnecessary dialogue. It can become a trial to go through the
> daily mail. So, "bandwidth" is just the extent of bytes of information that
> pass through the Clayart mailbox every day.
- Vince,
I highly recommend Gmail for reading list mail. You see the
subject and just the first line. I only read one out of ten. Saves
a lot of time.
--
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://heartclay.blogspot.com/
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
http://claycraft.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do.
There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi
Jones, Nina D. on mon 22 sep 08
Thank you, Lili!!! When dialoging with a person of knowledge we idiots=
sometimes get carried away with the thought that that person can teach us=
things we do not know ... and brand spankin' new ... SO much one does not=
know ...
And finding answers on the net is not so easy as one would assume. Google=
does not work equally with all computers and service levels. Especially=
if you have little money and therefore the lowest level of internet=
service, and your computer is VERY slow, prone to freezing if asked to do=
ANYTHING more demanding than booting up and your search feature would=
rather take you to a sales pop-up site than the informational site you=
thought you were navigating to ...
Nina
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Lili Krakowski
Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 3:10 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Can I use kiln wash to wash my car?
Vince writes:
"Dear Lili -
....It is important to acknowledge the existence of complete
imbeciles, total idiots, absolute morons. Anyone who would ask
such a
question without first taking the time to Google "kiln wash"
deserves to be
humiliated.
Here on Clayart, we welcome reasonable questions from novices,
but we hope
that any novice would Google a subject like that first. It's so
easy to do,
and it saves bandwidth on the Clayart list."
- Vince
I just finished reading your magnificent book. Honestly and
truly it is fabulous.
The existence of complete imbeciles, total idiots, and absolute
morons is quite evident on Wall Street as well as elsewhere....
But no one deserves to be humiliated. Humiliation is a cheap
trick, a coward's trick.
I have been at the butt end of humiliation--my accent, my looks,
and when I was a child my lisp. I have seen humiliating
"techniques" applied to others. So...no....
I Googled "kiln wash" And I did not find an explanation of what
it does! Nor how it is used! Maybe if I had scrolled down to
the bottom--right.
The most interesting thing about questions is how they are
answered. Anyone can ask
"What is Being?" as easily as she can ask "What is kiln wash".
We are instructed to answer questions in a manner suitable to the
questioner. And that is what ClayArt, AND potterybasics are
about....They do not reveal the "imbecility" of the one who asks,
but the personality of them wot answers.
So may I ask: What is Band width?
Lili Krakowski
Be of good courage
The contents of this message may be privileged and confidential. Therefore,=
if this message has been received in error, please delete it without=
reading it. Your receipt of this message is not intended to waive any=
applicable privilege. Please do not disseminate this message without the=
permission of the author.
***************************************************************************=
***
Any tax advice contained in this email was not intended to be used, and=
cannot be used, by you (or any other taxpayer) to avoid penalties under=
the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended. =0D
Kim Hohlmayer on tue 23 sep 08
Well said, Nina! I just got done trying to research a topic for my mom using Google. Guess what? The real information I wanted was unavailable without signing up for some expensive service. Another time it took me many days with many hours each of those days trying to hunt down someones adress without paying some company a big fee. I am dogged in my determination but there comes that moment when I finally surrender and say, "I give up! It is time to hunt down a real person who can answer this question!" --Kim H.
--- On Mon, 9/22/08, Jones, Nina D. wrote:
> From: Jones, Nina D.
> Subject: Re: Can I use kiln wash to wash my car?
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Date: Monday, September 22, 2008, 12:16 PM
> Thank you, Lili!!! When dialoging with a person of
> knowledge we idiots sometimes get carried away with the
> thought that that person can teach us things we do not know
> ... and brand spankin' new ... SO much one does not know
> ...
>
> And finding answers on the net is not so easy as one would
> assume. Google does not work equally with all computers and
> service levels. Especially if you have little money and
> therefore the lowest level of internet service, and your
> computer is VERY slow, prone to freezing if asked to do
> ANYTHING more demanding than booting up and your search
> feature would rather take you to a sales pop-up site than
> the informational site you thought you were navigating to
> ...
>
> Nina
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf
> Of Lili Krakowski
> Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 3:10 PM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Can I use kiln wash to wash my car?
>
> Vince writes:
>
> "Dear Lili -
> ....It is important to acknowledge the existence of
> complete
> imbeciles, total idiots, absolute morons. Anyone who would
> ask
> such a
> question without first taking the time to Google "kiln
> wash"
> deserves to be
> humiliated.
>
> Here on Clayart, we welcome reasonable questions from
> novices,
> but we hope
> that any novice would Google a subject like that first.
> It's so
> easy to do,
> and it saves bandwidth on the Clayart list."
> - Vince
>
> I just finished reading your magnificent book. Honestly
> and
> truly it is fabulous.
>
> The existence of complete imbeciles, total idiots, and
> absolute
> morons is quite evident on Wall Street as well as
> elsewhere....
>
> But no one deserves to be humiliated. Humiliation is a
> cheap
> trick, a coward's trick.
> I have been at the butt end of humiliation--my accent, my
> looks,
> and when I was a child my lisp. I have seen humiliating
> "techniques" applied to others. So...no....
>
> I Googled "kiln wash" And I did not find an
> explanation of what
> it does! Nor how it is used! Maybe if I had scrolled
> down to
> the bottom--right.
>
> The most interesting thing about questions is how they are
> answered. Anyone can ask
> "What is Being?" as easily as she can ask
> "What is kiln wash".
> We are instructed to answer questions in a manner suitable
> to the
> questioner. And that is what ClayArt, AND potterybasics
> are
> about....They do not reveal the "imbecility" of
> the one who asks,
> but the personality of them wot answers.
>
> So may I ask: What is Band width?
>
>
>
>
> Lili Krakowski
> Be of good courage
>
> The contents of this message may be privileged and
> confidential. Therefore, if this message has been received
> in error, please delete it without reading it. Your receipt
> of this message is not intended to waive any applicable
> privilege. Please do not disseminate this message without
> the permission of the author.
> ******************************************************************************
> Any tax advice contained in this email was not intended to
> be used, and cannot be used, by you (or any other taxpayer)
> to avoid penalties under the Internal Revenue Code of 1986,
> as amended.
The Fuzzy Chef on tue 23 sep 08
All,
My "day job" is an open source software programmer. This means that we
have an online community consisting of thousands of people. I don't
think that dealing with software newbies is any different from dealing
with pottery newbies.
Basically, everyone should get at least one chance to find out what kind
of forum they've joined, and to learn to ask "good questions" rather
than "bad questions". i.e.
Bad Questions:
What's kiln wash?
Does anyone have any glaze recipes?
How do I make slip?
Good Questions:
I looked on Google and Wikipedia, and there are a bunch of references to
"kiln wash" but nobody explains what it is or how it's made. Can
someone provide me a link?
I just switched from electric firing to my first gas kiln. I'm trying
to replace Varigated Slate Blue from MC6G in cone 10 reduction; does
anyone have a glaze like this? I'll swap recipes.
I'm trying to make some decorative greenware slips or engobes for my
cone 5 Laguna B-mix pottery. I looked in The Potter's Companion and The
Ceramic Spectrum, and while they have a lot of advice on how to apply
slips, they don't have much on how to formulate them. Hints?
As you can see, a good question does a number of things:
a) enough information that we actually *can* help the asker
b) shows that the asker tried to answer the question on their own and
couldn't, so they're not just being lazy
c) doesn't ask for the entire contents of The Ceramic Spectrum.
Eric Raymond, a famous hacker, has an excellent treatise on asking good
technical questions which maps well to this forum:
http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#intro
However, nobody is born knowing how to ask good questions, and the
American schooling system certainly doesn't teach you. So the reply to
a newbie's first bad question should be friendly but firm, and designed
to educate them. There are several good ways to do this:
1) someone on this list could write up an "asking questions on Clayart"
page and put it on the internet, and we can direct newbies to the page:
"That question really isn't going to get you any useful answers. Please
read http://clayart.wiki.com/how-to-ask.html and come back with more
detail."
2) answer the newbie, but with a link or reference that requires them to
read something and do their own research:
"I believe Robin Hopper covers that topic extensively in Chapter 3 of
The Ceramic Spectrum."
"We discussed that last year -- search the clayart archives for "small
kilns"
3) If the newbie comes back a second or third time with "bad questions",
then don't hesitate to tell them they're being stupid.
Just my thoughts based on 10 years of leading online communities.
--Josh Berkus
Taylor Hendrix on tue 23 sep 08
Hey Kim and all:
9 times out of 10, the information for which you are being asked to
pay is available from some other source free of charge. Ah, welcome to
the Internet where you can buy a ton of junk metal on ebay one hour,
go have a cigarette, then come back and make a small fortune selling
the same stuff. One pays for convience rather than the actual
information.
My clay vocabulary was built by reading through clayart with my mouth
shut for a few months. So much so that by the time I took my one and
only clay class I had already mastered the two page vocabulary
included in my syllabus. The information is there if you know how and
where to look. It does take some knowhow like everything else
important.
Often I go old school and find my information by cracking a book. The
library is not dead.
Taylor, in Rockport TX where he has just finished reading _Fahrenheit
451_ with a gleam in his eye
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