mel jacobson on tue 23 sep 08
gas has become a very complex issue.
they add ethenol, other compounds
to increase the use of non/oil products.
we have flex fuels etc.
they work great for cars/all be it you lose
a great deal of power.
in a truck for example, if you are hauling....well
there is no saving. loss of power means you have
to push the pedal to metal to keep it going.
mileage drops like a stone.
like the low flush toilet...great concept...but it
takes two flushes to get the @$^%^down the pipe.
older small engines to not tolerate flex fuels.
my next door buddy who is an engineer and i did some
clear jar tests with heavy ethenol gas....we let it sit in the garage
for 9 months. all the compounds separated.
at the bottom of the jar was as david describes...it looked
like a half inch of yellow glue. the regular gas was clear as a bell.
in most areas you can find a few gas stations that still
sell regular gas. the folks that drive older cars/antiques
etc need it. i buy about 4 gallons at a time.
use it for all my small engines and my garden tractor.
i mix one gallon 50-1 with oil for the chain saw etc.
it is just another example of how we have to be aware
of the pit falls of new ideas to save one thing....and it
ruins another. in many cases, the small string trimmers
and other small gas engines last just a few years...and
they cannot be fixed. throw em out.
i am a strong believer in the concept of `un/intended consequences.`
we just know things will be better, because we want them better..
.but, we do not test, or wait for the right answer...we just plunge.
it happens all the time in the pottery. clay, glaze, firing.
just like the electronic starter for a gas furnace/ take away the
pilot light. save gas. yah, right.
it will cost you about 500 bucks to replace that starter.
no warranty on an electronic part. a year later it goes
again. and if it is new years day....and it is -30...well
then it is 800 bucks. `un/intended consequences`
it is like the new story of the california eco guy that installed
a series of solar panels on his house, then sued the neighbor
to have his redwood trees cut down so he would get more
sun on his panels....`the world goes nuts`.
mel
from minnetonka:
website http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
clayart site:
http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
Randall Moody on tue 23 sep 08
Mel,
The loss of power is only seen if the engine is running lean. It is also
barely discernible to the average driver. Flexfuel cars and trucks are
designed with this in mind and the computer control takes it into
consideration. If you have an older carbureted engine you can easily adjust
the engine to run less lean. Ethanol blends are here and we will just have
to get used to them.
Randall in Atlanta
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 10:12 AM, mel jacobson wrote:
> gas has become a very complex issue.
> they add ethenol, other compounds
> to increase the use of non/oil products.
> we have flex fuels etc.
> they work great for cars/all be it you lose
> a great deal of power.
>
> in a truck for example, if you are hauling....well
> there is no saving. loss of power means you have
> to push the pedal to metal to keep it going.
> mileage drops like a stone.
>
Sherron & Jim Bowen on tue 23 sep 08
"they work great for cars/all be it you lose a great deal of power."
NOT in my 2000 Ford Taurus. It gets 30 mpg on regular and 29 mpg on E85 that
I buy for more than a dollar a gallon less than regular. While we're on the
subject. I took my daughter's 1993 Ford Escort (with 240K miles on it) over
the mountains to Grand Junction for a Randy Brodnax workshop and it got 39
mpg on regular. That's not quite as good as her 1987 Escort that gets 44 mpg
on regular. Of course it only has 215K miles on it. Neither car is flex fuel
capable. That little two door had my Brent wheel in the back along with all
my camping gear (I don't travel light either) and several tackle boxes and
five fishing rods. I even added 300 pounds of clay for the return trip.
As far as "older engines" goes it all depends on how you define older.
Brazil started producing 100% ethanol vehicles in 1975 and by the
mid-eighties had over four million on the road. Ford produced some for use
in California in the eighties and started producing the Taurus as a FFV in
1996. Some GM cars have been FFV capable since the mid nineties. In fact
many vehicles are FFV capable and the owners don't even know it. There are
no exterior markings on most. Mine has an emblem depicting an ear of corn
and the letters FFV on the fender.
As far as old motors go the Ford Model T was flex fuel capable from 1908
through 1927. I think that qualifies as older. If you don't know if your car
is flex fuel capable get the vin number and call the manufacturer.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "mel jacobson"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 8:12 AM
Subject: gas again/generators
W J Seidl on tue 23 sep 08
I'm not really surprised that no one mentioned this.
But then, potters aren't known to have the kind of money needed to
support this type of "hobby".
AV-gas. (Short for "aviation gas") You can get it at most private
airports, any airport that services private aircraft.
They use it in small planes...Cessnas, Pipers and the like.
It's formulated for a higher octane than most "normal" gasolines for use
in aircraft engines.
And, since most airplanes sit around for long periods in between
flights, it's also formulated to be
much more "stable" than regular "car" fuel. It is. I've been using it
for years. A neighbor in Key West told me about it
and I started using it like he was. Best thing I ever did.
They don't like to sell in small quantities, and they sometimes look at
you sideways when you walk in with a gas can and
just want to "fill up", but you might want to sweet talk the attendant
into selling you 5 gallons or so...
tell him or her you have an experimental aircraft engine you're working on.
Put it in your small engine...good all year. Starts right up every
time, even after sitting all winter full of gas. Doesn't rot the fuel lines,
gaskets and seals like flex-fuel/ethanol. I'm planning on putting it in
my cement mixer, er, clay mixer when I fire it up again.
No, it's NOT cheap. It's running around $4.25/gallon, maybe more these
days.
Still, how much time are you going to take dinking around with your
lawnmower/chainsaw/snowblower/tiller/blower/generator
draining the fuel, running it (them) dry, adding stabilizers etc.? How
much did you figure your time was worth?
A couple things from other posts from this thread:
1) Long lasting fuel lines are made of TYGON. Doesn't rot like
rubber/neoprene. You can buy it by the foot or by the spool online
from a small engine parts "store" in just about any diameter you will
need. It looks like yellow plastic.
I changed my chainsaw fuel line out with TYGON two years ago, filled the
tank with a mix of oil/av-gas.
It started on the second pull last week...full of fuel for two years.
(I did shake it up before I tried starting it, to re-mix the oil into
the fuel in case it had settled.)
2) Diesel engines run just fine on vegetable oil. Actually quieter and
smoother than on diesel. (And the exhaust smells like french
fries...makes you hungry!)
BUT--you have to make sure that oil is heated, you have to start the
engine on diesel and then switch over,
which normally requires a second tank for the veggie oil, some extra
fuel line, a switching valve and a heater.
Conversion kits are available for a wide variety of vehicles, and the
conversion takes a weekend if you're handy.
There are also places you can drive in and have the thing done for you,
but it ain't cheap....
and then you still have to find a source for the used oil, strain it, etc.
For one cylinder diesels and generators, such as the Lister knockoffs
coming out of India these days, conversion is easy... manual valve, 5
gallon can for the oil tank
and a small 12v heater.
Do the research...it's all online.
Best,
Wayne Seidl
mel jacobson wrote:
> in most areas you can find a few gas stations that still
> sell regular gas. the folks that drive older cars/antiques
> etc need it. i buy about 4 gallons at a time.
> use it for all my small engines and my garden tractor.
> i mix one gallon 50-1 with oil for the chain saw etc.
>
Lee Love on tue 23 sep 08
You know, especially for wood firer potters, a woodfired steam or
thermal electric generator might be the way to go. Here is one
example:
http://www.green-trust.org/2000/enginetechnology/biowatt.htm
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://heartclay.blogspot.com/
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
http://claycraft.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do.
There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi
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