Sharon Miranda on tue 23 sep 08
Hello Clayart:
I am attempting to install a frieze of tiles (earthenware) around a
fireplace. This is a gift to a friend. The fireplace has white
molding and red bricks around the opening. Friend hated the red
bricks. I DID research this before I started the project and was
told that any ceramic glue would do. Now it appears, according to an
"expert" at Home Depot, that I must first screw in "hardiboard" (1/2
inch) on top of the brick, and then use thin set mortar glue. Problem
is that 1/2 inch hardiboard will make the tiles "stand out" from the
molding by about 1/4 inch.
My "expert" tells me that 1/4 inch hardiboard will not do the job.
(In fact, he says the whole fireplace needs to be dismantled).
Has anyone in the group done this before or have any experience with
installing tiles over brick on a fireplace?
There will be a thin line of grout (1/4 inch) around the border of
the tiles - not inbetween.
I will appreciate your advice, believe me.
Thanks,
Sharon
John Rodgers on tue 23 sep 08
Sharon,
The grand tradition to set tile on a vertical surface is to lay up a
sheet of metal lathe, then coat it with cement, and leveling the surface
before it sets, then using thinset or other adhesive on the cement and
then setting the tile to it.
The most commonly used method today is as your "expert" described, and
is generally applicable in most common cases. But what to do if the case
IS NOT common, as is this case. That is the question. That is where
artistry and ingenuity come into play.
If heat is not a problem - what would be wrong with applying something
like liquid nails or other construction adhesive directly to the face of
the brick, and then applying the tile to the liquid nails? I have seen
two by six lumber attached to concrete walls this way, and the wood
would rip apart before the glue line between the wood and th concrete
failed.
Just a thought ... another way of seeing how it could be done.
Good luck,
John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL
Sharon Miranda wrote:
> Hello Clayart:
> I am attempting to install a frieze of tiles (earthenware) around a
> fireplace. This is a gift to a friend. The fireplace has white
> molding and red bricks around the opening. Friend hated the red
> bricks. I DID research this before I started the project and was
> told that any ceramic glue would do. Now it appears, according to an
> "expert" at Home Depot, that I must first screw in "hardiboard" (1/2
> inch) on top of the brick, and then use thin set mortar glue. Problem
> is that 1/2 inch hardiboard will make the tiles "stand out" from the
> molding by about 1/4 inch.
> My "expert" tells me that 1/4 inch hardiboard will not do the job.
> (In fact, he says the whole fireplace needs to be dismantled).
> Has anyone in the group done this before or have any experience with
> installing tiles over brick on a fireplace?
> There will be a thin line of grout (1/4 inch) around the border of
> the tiles - not inbetween.
> I will appreciate your advice, believe me.
> Thanks,
> Sharon
>
>
Robert on tue 23 sep 08
Sharon,
I almost always use a latex fortified portland cement based mortar,
commonly available at any HIS. The type and condition of the brick will
determine the quality of the bond. If you have highly vitreous face
bricks you may have some difficulty getting a good bond. You should be
able to dampen the brick with a wet sponge without having water
remaining on the surface. Assuming they are adequately porous you
should dampen them prior to tiling. Conversely if you have crumbly or
porous bricks, or grout, the prep is important. Wire brush everything
tightly, pre-fill with mortar if you have voids and dampen the brick
generously before tiling and you shouldn't have a problem with the
bond. I would expect a simple latex tile adhesive would work for the
initial bond but they do not seem to hold up well in the long run, and
would not recommend them. No expert, but I've set a lot of tile.
Take care,
Robert
Jeanette Harris on tue 23 sep 08
Sharon, what is the molding around the area made of? Is it the kind
of fireplace that has a wooden frame and a recessed area of bricks
surrounding the opening? How large is the brick area?
On the outset, my knee-jerk reaction is that the bricks are probably
too porous to support the tiles. Time, heat and the possible dryness
of the clay could produce a powdery barrier on the surface of the
bricks that would not be stable enough to bond with the tiles.
Besides you will have an irregular surface to deal with.
Also, you have to consider the possible effects of heat on the bond
if you use a glue. It would take a lot of it.
I'd use 1/4 inch thinset over bricks to fill up the inevitable voids
of the brick and mortar, then hardibacker, thinset and tiles. I'm
not too sure screws would be solid enough into brick.
I think you can get 1/4 inch hardibacker.
You might have to put a new facade over the other part of the
fireplace in order to bring it out farther than the brick/tiles.
(Jeanette who just finished "The Tile Project that Wouldn't Die" in a
shower stall. After going through four design revisions in order to
get everything to fit. It only needs to be grouted at this point and
then I'M A FREE WOMAN!!! And I can post the result on my blog. )
>Hello Clayart:
>I am attempting to install a frieze of tiles (earthenware) around a
>fireplace.
>Thanks,
>Sharon
--
http://jeanetteharrisblog.blogspot.com/
http://www.washingtonpotters.org/members/Jeanette_Harris/wpa_jeanette_harris.htm
http://www.sa-clayartists.org Click on Members, then H
Jeanette Harris
Washingzona
Sharon Miranda on wed 24 sep 08
Thanks guys for all the tips!
In answer to your questions:
yes, it is the kind of fireplace that has wooden molding around,
then recessed brick and mortar. The area of brick is about 6 inches
high and wide. I don't know how porous this brick is. I'd have to
check that.
I asked my "expert" why 1/4 inch hardiboard wouldn't work - that
would make the tiles set flush w/ the molding. He just said it
wouldn't work. But after your emails, I think I may go ahead with
that way anyway.
This is a gas fireplace that will not be used very often - so says my
friend.
So, my tendencies now are to: fill in recessed areas of brick and
mortar w/ "fortified" thinset glue, apply 1/4 inch hardiboard, and
also screw it in to make sure, then apply a thick layer of thinset
glue to the hardiboard, groove it, then apply a thin layer to the
tile and set it. then grout.
How's that sound?
Sharon
Jeanette Harris on wed 24 sep 08
Sounds like a plan to me, Sharon.
Another tip I learned from my tile saga--You know how hard it is to
get stray grout or thinset off tiles after it has set up? Well, get
some acetone and rub it right off. Wish I'd known that long ago. You
can use nail polish remover too--same thing.
It's a good thing to clean all the tiles with acetone prior to
grouting. You will know that the surfaces are totally clean before
starting that process. (I use Sharpies to mark or number all the tile
in order to speed installation and Sharpie marks come off easily too.)
An old toothbrush is good for cleaning the Thinset squish out of the
spaces before grouting while the Thinset is still wet. Rinse out the
toothbrush after each time.
Also, are you planning to use the little plastic spacers? They help
keep the tiles from oozing down on a vertical surface. Put them in
horizontally in two places between the tiles, inserting two of the
little arms into the space for more strength; when the adhesive is
set up, you can take them out, clean them for use again. (My first
tile floor had the spaces imbedded under the grout at the tile
intersections--not a good idea. No problems, but not a good idea.)
Post some picts when it's done!
>Thanks guys for all the tips!
>
>In answer to your questions:
>
>yes, it is the kind of fireplace that has wooden molding around,
>then recessed brick and mortar. The area of brick is about 6 inches
>high and wide. I don't know how porous this brick is. I'd have to
>check that.
>I asked my "expert" why 1/4 inch hardiboard wouldn't work - that
>would make the tiles set flush w/ the molding. He just said it
>wouldn't work. But after your emails, I think I may go ahead with
>that way anyway.
>This is a gas fireplace that will not be used very often - so says my
>friend.
>
>So, my tendencies now are to: fill in recessed areas of brick and
>mortar w/ "fortified" thinset glue, apply 1/4 inch hardiboard, and
>also screw it in to make sure, then apply a thick layer of thinset
>glue to the hardiboard, groove it, then apply a thin layer to the
>tile and set it. then grout.
>How's that sound?
>Sharon
--
http://jeanetteharrisblog.blogspot.com/
http://www.washingtonpotters.org/members/Jeanette_Harris/wpa_jeanette_harris.htm
http://www.sa-clayartists.org Click on Members, then H
Jeanette Harris
Washingzona
Malcolm Cooke on wed 24 sep 08
Is the fire place to be used as a fire place or decorative.
If the bricks are properly cleaned down and the surface reasonable
level any good quality tile adhesive will do the job.
Using the hardi board can introduce it own problems of flaking
adhesive warping if it gets wet etc.... best to glue strait on clean
hard surface.
I have used both methods and find it best straight on to the brick
surface.
Regards
On 24/09/2008, at 4:51 AM, Sharon Miranda wrote:
> Hello Clayart:
> I am attempting to install a frieze of tiles (earthenware) around a
> fireplace. This is a gift to a friend. The fireplace has white
> molding and red bricks around the opening. Friend hated the red
> bricks. I DID research this before I started the project and was
> told that any ceramic glue would do. Now it appears, according to an
> "expert" at Home Depot, that I must first screw in "hardiboard" (1/2
> inch) on top of the brick, and then use thin set mortar glue. Problem
> is that 1/2 inch hardiboard will make the tiles "stand out" from the
> molding by about 1/4 inch.
> My "expert" tells me that 1/4 inch hardiboard will not do the job.
> (In fact, he says the whole fireplace needs to be dismantled).
> Has anyone in the group done this before or have any experience with
> installing tiles over brick on a fireplace?
> There will be a thin line of grout (1/4 inch) around the border of
> the tiles - not inbetween.
> I will appreciate your advice, believe me.
> Thanks,
> Sharon
>
Malcolm Cooke
Identity Environment & Art
7 Naas Rd Tharwa ACT 2620 Australia
mcooke@placemaking.com.au
http://www.placemaking.com.au
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