James F on tue 30 sep 08
The current issue of American Craft contains an interview with Wendell Cast=
le=2C the sculptor/art furniture maker (one of my favorites). He made two =
less than cheery statements which cause a bit of consternation:
Are you finding less of a difference between art and crafts collectors=
now?
No=2C I think there's more of a difference. The art audience is much young=
er and much wealthier. I see the craft collectors as becoming elderly=2C a=
nd it makes me worry to some extent. I'm glad I'm not depending on them.
What about younger artists?
Well=2C I'd say there is an opportunity=2C but it's really a difficult one =
to take advantage of. You'd have to be extremely good and have something v=
ery unique going for you to succeed.
Much to ponder.
Be well.
...James
_________________________________________________________________
Stay up to date on your PC=2C the Web=2C and your mobile phone with Windows=
Live.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/=
Curtis Benzle on tue 30 sep 08
HI James:
As a "former trustee" of the ACC I still get to hear a bit of inside
communication. From this, I know that the Council shares your(and Wendell
Castle's) concerns. In addition to a discussion on ClayArt, I encourage you
to send your thoughts to the new Director of the ACC, Andrew Glasgow<
aglasgow@craftcouncil.org>. The Council is pondering the future of that
organization and it would certainly help if they heard a bit from the
membership.
Curt
benzleporcelain.com
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 7:40 AM, James F wrote:
> The current issue of American Craft contains an interview with Wendell
> Castle, the sculptor/art furniture maker (one of my favorites). He made two
> less than cheery statements which cause a bit of consternation:
>
> Are you finding less of a difference between art and crafts collectors
> now?
>
> No, I think there's more of a difference. The art audience is much younger
> and much wealthier. I see the craft collectors as becoming elderly, and it
> makes me worry to some extent. I'm glad I'm not depending on them.
>
>
> What about younger artists?
>
> Well, I'd say there is an opportunity, but it's really a difficult one to
> take advantage of. You'd have to be extremely good and have something very
> unique going for you to succeed.
>
>
> Much to ponder.
>
> Be well.
>
> ...James
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows
> Live.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/
mea rhee on tue 30 sep 08
The first quote:
> No, I think there's more of a difference. The art audience is much
> younger
> and much wealthier. I see the craft collectors as becoming elderly,
> and it
> makes me worry to some extent. I'm glad I'm not depending on them.
Maybe he is referring to very high-ticket craft work, like furniture.
How many potters does this apply to? For me this statement is not true
at all.
The second quote:
> Well, I'd say there is an opportunity, but it's really a difficult one
> to
> take advantage of. You'd have to be extremely good and have something
> very
> unique going for you to succeed.
Does this mean that people used to succeed at craft making without
being extremely good? Really? If this is true, isn't it better that
those times are over?
I don't consider myself a success yet, because I still need my other
business to make ends meet. But one thing I really appreciate about the
world of professional crafts is that success is only for the "extremely
good" (unlike so many other fields where you can sit at a desk and
collect paychecks for doing very little).
Mea Rhee
Lee Love on tue 30 sep 08
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 7:40 AM, James F wrote:
> Are you finding less of a difference between art and crafts collectors now?
>
> No, I think there's more of a difference. The art audience is much younger and much >wealthier. I see the craft collectors as becoming elderly, and it makes me worry to some >extent. I'm glad I'm not depending on them.
I am just beginning to start making the objects that inspired me
to start making pots almost 20 years ago: Urns for cremains.
Maybe my timing is right with the lovers of craft becoming elderly?
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://heartclay.blogspot.com/
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
http://claycraft.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do.
There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi
Christine Campbell on wed 1 oct 08
So now they are noticing!
Fifteen years ago it was gospel that our
customers were 45 year old women with a
college education and disposable income.
Yeah, well that lady is over 60 and getting
rid of stuff ... not buying more.
If she is shopping for gifts she is likely
pleasing someone who has registered online.
She can easily buy and ship in minutes.
She is sure they will like the gift and it
is easy.
She is pleasing a young person who does not
discriminate between handmade here or
handmade anywhere.
That young person might even get a do gooder
thrill from supporting native village 'crafts'
in another part of the world.
And, we artists have been SLOW to catch up.
How many of you have a registry area on your
web page?
How many of you will ship gifts to a third
party along with a message card?
How many have easy shopping carts on their
sales sites?
I am not being holier than thou ... I do not
have it on my web site either. Mean to do it
but have not gotten around to it yet.
That young person's lifestyle does not even
remotely resemble the profile we seem to want
to make work for.
They are not the Partridge Family.
They do not sit down to meals very often.
They graze more than dine.
They love the safety of buying sure things ...
things that have pre-approved taste.
No need to worry about what your choices say
about you.
How many of us are making dinnerware in small
sets with higher sides ... suitable for hastily
grabbed meals that are eaten in front of a
computer or while walking around talking on a
cell phone?
How many of us are watching color trends and
making our glazes in POPULAR shades?
How many of us walk around Pottery Barn and
Crate and Barrel to check out what the trends
are?
Very few is my bet.
Then we whine that no one wants to buy our stuff.
Like they have some inborn duty to do so.
Nope.
It is OUR job to make work they want if we want
to survive.
It is OUR job to do some research on trends and
lifestyles.
OK ... end of rant.
Chris Campbell - in North Carolina
--
Chris Campbell Pottery LLC
9417 Koupela Drive
Raleigh NC 27615-2233
Designs in Colored Porcelain
1-800-652-1008
Fax : 919-676-2062
website: www.ccpottery.com
wholesale : www.wholesalecrafts.com
Lee Love on wed 1 oct 08
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 1:59 PM, mea rhee wrote:
> The second quote:
> Does this mean that people used to succeed at craft making without
> being extremely good? Really? If this is true, isn't it better that
> those times are over?
I don't think this is true because one road to success in ceramics
is focusing totally on what sells. But I suppose, it depends upon
what you call success.
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://heartclay.blogspot.com/
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
http://claycraft.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do.
There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi
Larry Kruzan on wed 1 oct 08
Hi Chris,
Working on that web site right now - survival mode time folks - unless you
are a hobbyist, in which case make whatever you like. As for me I like to
eat more than once a month so if FB sells, FB it is, want a butter bell?
GAG! But I will make them because many have no taste, but have money. I
like money.
I feel so cheap.
Larry Kruzan
Lost Creek Pottery
www.lostcreekpottery.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Christine
Campbell
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 11:04 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: [CLAYART] Two troubling thoughts from Wendell Castle
So now they are noticing!
Fifteen years ago it was gospel that our
customers were 45 year old women with a
college education and disposable income.
Yeah, well that lady is over 60 and getting
rid of stuff ... not buying more.
If she is shopping for gifts she is likely
pleasing someone who has registered online.
She can easily buy and ship in minutes.
She is sure they will like the gift and it
is easy.
She is pleasing a young person who does not
discriminate between handmade here or
handmade anywhere.
That young person might even get a do gooder
thrill from supporting native village 'crafts'
in another part of the world.
And, we artists have been SLOW to catch up.
How many of you have a registry area on your
web page?
How many of you will ship gifts to a third
party along with a message card?
How many have easy shopping carts on their
sales sites?
I am not being holier than thou ... I do not
have it on my web site either. Mean to do it
but have not gotten around to it yet.
That young person's lifestyle does not even
remotely resemble the profile we seem to want
to make work for.
They are not the Partridge Family.
They do not sit down to meals very often.
They graze more than dine.
They love the safety of buying sure things ...
things that have pre-approved taste.
No need to worry about what your choices say
about you.
How many of us are making dinnerware in small
sets with higher sides ... suitable for hastily
grabbed meals that are eaten in front of a
computer or while walking around talking on a
cell phone?
How many of us are watching color trends and
making our glazes in POPULAR shades?
How many of us walk around Pottery Barn and
Crate and Barrel to check out what the trends
are?
Very few is my bet.
Then we whine that no one wants to buy our stuff.
Like they have some inborn duty to do so.
Nope.
It is OUR job to make work they want if we want
to survive.
It is OUR job to do some research on trends and
lifestyles.
OK ... end of rant.
Chris Campbell - in North Carolina
--
Chris Campbell Pottery LLC
9417 Koupela Drive
Raleigh NC 27615-2233
Designs in Colored Porcelain
1-800-652-1008
Fax : 919-676-2062
website: www.ccpottery.com
wholesale : www.wholesalecrafts.com
John Rodgers on wed 1 oct 08
Christine Campbell wrote:
> It is OUR job to make work they want if we want
> to survive.
> It is OUR job to do some research on trends and
> lifestyles.
>
> OK ... end of rant.
>
Chris,
You are right on target.
We learn in marketing class something about cooking - working with
noodles - both in the pot and in the head. It is much more difficult -
yea, downright near impossible - to push a cooked spaghetti noodle
rather than it is to pull it. You learn that a principle in marketing
is: (1) Never make the product first, and then try to convince the
public to buy it, but instead (2) find what the public wants or needs
then produce the product to fill the need. (1) is pushing the noodle,
and (2) is pulling the noodle. When you are dealing with (2) you are
working with an already pent up demand, and as soon as a product is
available to meet that pent up demand, sales will take off. The demand
will pull the product through from production to the consumer.
There is a little "formula" as it were, for determining the viability of
a product idea. Basically a reasonably well designed survey of a
minimum number (N) of people will give you an indication as to whether
something is going to work or not. "N" must be at least 66 to be
statistically viable. Of course the more you have in your survey, the
more accurate the indication of success or failure.I would extend that
to say for local efforts the 66 would work, but for selling in a broad
geographical area a much larger sample is needed - much greater than 66.
There are many aspects of marketing that most don't have a clue about.
Sales is the result of good marketing. Marketing is the creation of a
demand for the product. I believe every person who wants success as a
clay artist simply must at minimum get a good book on the subject of
marketing and learn what it has to say - cover to cover - and
incorporate those things into ones efforts.
Regards,
John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL
Rikki Gill on wed 1 oct 08
Hi Christine,
I do understand what you are saying, and I agree with you up to a point.
What I see though, in work of my own, is that I must stick to my feelings
about what I want to do. I am not saying potters shouldn't see what is
going on around them, but for me what is the point of being an artist and a
designer if I am using Pottery Barn as my influence? I think we need to
follow our instincts and develop our own ideas, or nothing we do will bring
us what we want. That is the satisfaction of doing our own style.
I make dinnerware. Traditional shapes, my own decorations. The younger
customers, as well as older ones want to entertain their friends and
families and want something they can be proud of on the table. Something
unique.
I make pots for two generations of some families now. Also, though the
older customers may have their own pottery, they still buy gifts for others.
I consider your work lovely and totally unique. You didn't see that in
Pottery Barn.
Warm, best wishes,
Rikki Gill
rikigil@sbcglobal.net
www.rikkigillceramics.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christine Campbell"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: Two troubling thoughts from Wendell Castle
> So now they are noticing!
>
>
> Fifteen years ago it was gospel that our
> customers were 45 year old women with a
> college education and disposable income.
>
> Yeah, well that lady is over 60 and getting
> rid of stuff ... not buying more.
>
> If she is shopping for gifts she is likely
> pleasing someone who has registered online.
> She can easily buy and ship in minutes.
> She is sure they will like the gift and it
> is easy.
>
> She is pleasing a young person who does not
> discriminate between handmade here or
> handmade anywhere.
>
> That young person might even get a do gooder
> thrill from supporting native village 'crafts'
> in another part of the world.
>
> And, we artists have been SLOW to catch up.
>
> How many of you have a registry area on your
> web page?
>
> How many of you will ship gifts to a third
> party along with a message card?
>
> How many have easy shopping carts on their
> sales sites?
>
> I am not being holier than thou ... I do not
> have it on my web site either. Mean to do it
> but have not gotten around to it yet.
>
>
> That young person's lifestyle does not even
> remotely resemble the profile we seem to want
> to make work for.
>
> They are not the Partridge Family.
> They do not sit down to meals very often.
> They graze more than dine.
>
> They love the safety of buying sure things ...
> things that have pre-approved taste.
> No need to worry about what your choices say
> about you.
>
>
> How many of us are making dinnerware in small
> sets with higher sides ... suitable for hastily
> grabbed meals that are eaten in front of a
> computer or while walking around talking on a
> cell phone?
>
> How many of us are watching color trends and
> making our glazes in POPULAR shades?
>
> How many of us walk around Pottery Barn and
> Crate and Barrel to check out what the trends
> are?
>
> Very few is my bet.
>
> Then we whine that no one wants to buy our stuff.
> Like they have some inborn duty to do so.
> Nope.
>
> It is OUR job to make work they want if we want
> to survive.
> It is OUR job to do some research on trends and
> lifestyles.
>
> OK ... end of rant.
>
> Chris Campbell - in North Carolina
>
>
> --
> Chris Campbell Pottery LLC
> 9417 Koupela Drive
> Raleigh NC 27615-2233
>
> Designs in Colored Porcelain
>
> 1-800-652-1008
> Fax : 919-676-2062
> website: www.ccpottery.com
> wholesale : www.wholesalecrafts.com
Christine Campbell on thu 2 oct 08
These business discussions ALWAYS take
the same side road.
Whenever it's mentioned that we
have to NOTICE what is happening in the
marketplace and CARE about what real
people actually WANT ... there are
always rebuttals about creative
integrity and personal vision and
artistic freedom.
FINE!
You guys go make the only things you
want to make and let me talk to the
people who are looking for their niche
and a maybe willing to bend a little
to serve a new customer base.
My words to them ....
You have not sold out if you make what
people want in the colors they like.
The world will not end because you
glaze something blue ... well, actually
this year it is more of an iris blue
but you get the drift.
It can be exciting and most challenging
to meld your vision with current trends.
Yes Rikki, you are correct. You do not
see my work in Pottery Barn ...
BUT ...
I do watch the color trends and I do use
them in my designs.
What is wrong with people buying your work
because the colors are right for their home?
Maybe someday brown will make a huge comeback
then the purists will all have to switch
to blue to avoid being trendy and popular.
Chris Campbell - in North Carolina
--
Chris Campbell Pottery LLC
9417 Koupela Drive
Raleigh NC 27615-2233
Designs in Colored Porcelain
1-800-652-1008
Fax : 919-676-2062
website: www.ccpottery.com
wholesale : www.wholesalecrafts.com
L TURNER on thu 2 oct 08
Christine,
Amen.
If you make stuff only for yourself then you should keep it.
If you make stuff for others, then you should make what they want to keep.
You can enjoy making both.
I don't like celadon glazes - they are too green and boring for my taste,
but I have had colleagues and others who thought my celadon bowls were great
so I made celadon bowls for them, not for me. Bowls for me are earthtone or
shino. Everybody shares in the excitement.
L. Turner,
The Woodlands, TX
Robert Briscoe on thu 2 oct 08
I have some issues with Cris Campbell comments about, and John Rodgers
reply to her, on marketing and sales. I believe Chris's description about
who the customer was and where they are now is very clear and accurate. We
are experiencing a profound demographic change (boomer ageing) which has
been like a runaway locomotive coming straight at us for ten years, if you
were paying attention. She is right in the analysis about how the next
generation is engaging the world as well.
The issue I have is in the approaches she and John are advocating for
attracting sales to your work in the future. I believe that you make work
first to please yourself! Marketing heresy! I don't think so. Yes I still
believe that is our first priority. Once we are happy we then explore the
markets to find out where and who is engaged by this work. It is a choice
to be a business or or a maker. I choose to be a maker first. I am not an
Art snob about this. I have and will sell as many pots as I can make and
find people to buy them. I do not have an elitist view. I do not care
(judge)what potters make or what glazes they use, any of that. If you are
proud of what it is you make and it is your best, that is wonderful! But to
me, this is not about succeeding in the market by giving people what THEY
want, it is succeeding first in the studio and then figuring out how to find
successes in the greater marketing world. I am not naive here. I have been
doing this for 41 years, selling pots to a wide audience for 38 years. I
sell mostly at art fairs, but also through galleries. I slowly have turned
those markets (mail list development) into two studio sales a year and I now
have a showroom that I just opened. I believe there are intersections
between selling products and selling pots. Post card announcements, articles
in the press, go on TV, teach classes, give demos at the local Junior
League, join your Chamber of Commerce etc. All the things Chris said about
web site tools are excellent ideas. Gift registry is as well. I choose not
to feed into that but nonetheless a good idea. Easy to navigate and use
shopping carts- important! Reasonable shipping and handling charges are
ways to help your customers feel that you are on their side a little. I
guess I am saying, pay attention to the business stuff (all of the
appropriate stuff) when you are not in the studio. Go happily into the
outside world armed with your best work and the pots YOU are most excited
about showing. It may not work out but you will be successful twice if it
does. There are no guarantees, and it will and should take a while for all
this success to find you. I struggled for at least 12 years (and still do,
just less so) before I saw a clear light of possibility. So I would say,
first make the work you want to make, second preserve your passion for the
making, and try and stay out of debt. Marketing first-making second can
easily make you a cynic, at that point I would rather be a greeter at the
local HugeMart. By the way, for some humor, I have a useless and meaningless
degree in Economics. Robert Briscoe
James F on thu 2 oct 08
This post didn't seem to make it to the list=2C so here is the second try. =
Please accept my apologies if you receive it twice.
>- survival mode time folks - unless you
> are a hobbyist=2C in which case make whatever you like. As for me I like =
to
> eat more than once a month so if FB sells=2C FB it is=2C want a butter be=
ll?
> GAG! But I will make them because many have no taste=2C but have money. I
> like money.
>
> I feel so cheap.
>
> Larry Kruzan
A potter of my acquaintance recently left the art-fair scene. While he was =
still active=2C he referred to himself as a 'pottery whore'=2C willing to s=
et his own aesthetic aside and make 'whatever would sell'. His self-describ=
ed perigee was when he found himself throwing ceramic pigs. One can still d=
rive him to sheer embarrassment by mentioning the little kaolinic porcines.=
Perhaps we need a 12-step program.
>> No=2C I think there's more of a difference. The art audience is much
>> younger
>> and much wealthier. I see the craft collectors as becoming elderly=2C
>> and it
>> makes me worry to some extent. I'm glad I'm not depending on them.
>>
>Maybe he is referring to very high-ticket craft work=2C like furniture.
>How many potters does this apply to? For me this statement is not true
>at all.
>
>Mea Rhee
Yes=2C there will always be a market for the hand-made=2C those who are wil=
ling to pay a slight premium for an object with a story or for the subtle d=
ifferences that few seem able to recognize. I view this much as the market =
for classical music in this age where a 'musician' no longer even needs to =
know three chords. Mr.Castle merely points out that the audience for the cr=
aft version of classical music is likewise rapidly aging=2C and few are mov=
ing in behind them to fill the void. Sure=2C the remaining market is suffic=
ient to provide many potters with a modest living=2C but how many are left =
to help create the next Wendell Castle?
New York 'collectors' routinely spend $250=2C000=2C $500=2C000=2C or even $=
1 million on fairly generic abstract paintings by living artists. A friend =
in New York recently attended an exhibition consisting of five pieces by a =
36-year-old painter=2C each priced at $1 million=2C and all marked 'sold'. =
I am guessing that the serious collectors of craft could be counted on one'=
s appendages=2C and that to count the collectors of high-end craft one migh=
t need only the appendages on their hands.
In ceramics we have those rare and treasured folks like Tom Turnquist=2C bu=
t how many Mr. Turnquists are out there? With so few serious collectors of =
craft=2C the odds of one such as he even noticing one of my (or anyone's) p=
ieces amongst the clamor is close to nil. Even if a serious collector does =
notice one's work=2C Mr. Castle contends that the odds are that he or she i=
s no longer acquiring. A case in point: I recently heard from a gallerist w=
ho represents my sculptural work. She told me that a member of the Guggenhe=
im family stopped in=2C and was admiring one of my pieces. He fairly raved =
about the work=2C but when she suggested he add it to his collection the el=
derly gentleman replied that at 84 years of age=2C he was trying to get rid=
of things=2C not add more. While certainly a boost to the ego=2C this endo=
rsement=2C plus $1.50=2C will get me a cup of coffee.
> She is pleasing a young person who does not
> discriminate between handmade here or
> handmade anywhere.
>
> That young person might even get a do gooder
> thrill from supporting native village 'crafts'
> in another part of the world.
>
> Chris Campbell - in North Carolina
I tend to agree with Ms. Campbell's sentiment=2C at least in the low or ver=
y low end of the craft market where most of us operate (as opposed to the h=
igh or very high end occupied by a Wendell Castle or a Brother Thomas or a =
Mr. Heino). While Mr. Castle sells $200=2C000 settees to museums=2C so is r=
elatively immune=2C he laments the aging of those folks willing to shell ou=
t $15=2C000 for a dining table or credenza. Our own plight seems much worse=
as we try to sell $40 or $100 or $300 pots.
When I visited China a dozen or so years ago=2C one of my stops was at a gr=
anite processor. Throngs of workers toiled for 10 hours per day around mass=
ive unguarded gang saws. When a member of my group inquired as to how much =
money the workers were paid=2C the plant manager proudly replied that they =
were 'very highly paid=2C one U.S. Dollar per day'. At another stop at an e=
mbroidery factory=2C we purchased a gorgeous hand-embroidered silk panel fo=
r a song. Row after row of women=2C from early teens through grandmothers=
=2C sat at little tables hand-stitching day in and day out. They were paid =
piecework=2C if I recall correctly it was about $1 or so per large panel. I=
f it is true that the modern craft buyer does not discriminate based on geo=
graphic origin=2C then this=2C folks=2C is what we are competing with. I ke=
ep a really nice vase on my desk=2C nice form=2C elegant details=2C and a r=
eally lovely breaking blue-brown glaze. I bought it at a discount chain sto=
re for $3=2C marked down from $6.99 retail. I refer to it as my 'What's the=
Point' vase.
>... but for me what is the point of being an artist and a
>designer if I am using Pottery Barn as my influence? I think we need to
>follow our instincts and develop our own ideas=2C or nothing we do will br=
ing
>us what we want. That is the satisfaction of doing our own style.
>
>The younger
>customers=2C as well as older ones want to entertain their friends and
>families and want something they can be proud of on the table. Something
>unique.
>
>Rikki Gill
I agree to an extent with Ms. Gill also=2C but herein lays the genesis of m=
y consternation over Mr. Castle's statements.
Some young friends=2C a recently married couple=2C told me that they needed=
a small table for their apartment and asked if I would make one for them=
=2C knowing that woodworking was my main creative outlet before being seduc=
ed by clay. They explained that they preferred something 'home-made' over s=
tore-bought=2C and that they would rather the money went to someone they kn=
ew. Both noble sentiments=2C but at odds with reality. They were dumbfounde=
d when I explained to them that it would cost me more to purchase the requi=
red locally grown and cut raw lumber than the store charged for a finished =
table shipped half way around the world. A neighbor brought over a half doz=
en hand-painted tiles she brought home from China. She wanted to use them i=
n a backsplash in her kitchen. She asked if I could make her the rest of th=
e required tiles to go with her Chinese treasures=2C explaining that she di=
dn't want to spend the money that would have been required to assemble the =
entire backsplash out of Chinese tiles. She too was speechless when I expla=
ined to her that I would have to charge more for simple=2C undecorated fiel=
d tiles than she paid for her fancy hand-painted specimens.
How much difference is there between a slip cast=2C small-scale factory pro=
duced Bill Campbell pot and a slip cast=2C large-scale factory produced Chi=
nese pot? How much between a piecework (production) art fair pot and a piec=
ework Chinese or Mexican pot? For that matter=2C how much between a Herman =
Miller Eames Chair and the third-world knock-off? Is the fifth leg really w=
orth the extra $3000? What do we really offer with our hand-made pottery ot=
her than the fifth leg?
As I said=2C much to think about.
Be well.
...James
www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
_________________________________________________________________
See how Windows connects the people=2C information=2C and fun that are part=
of your life.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/=
Mary & Wes Handrow on fri 3 oct 08
Thank you, thank you, and thank you! I have never understood this argument.
Make what you want to make if that makes you happy. And if you want your
things to sell make it the way the customer wants, you can still put your
artist stamp on it. There is not and never has been only one right way to
do things, let's try to get used to the idea that no one makes stuff that
everyone likes and no one makes stuff that everybody hates. No matter what
color you use on your pottery, the heart and soul of it is the shape and
skill of the making. You just can't hide a bad pot with pretty colors.
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Christine
Campbell
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 11:02 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Two troubling thoughts from Wendell Castle
These business discussions ALWAYS take
the same side road.
Whenever it's mentioned that we
have to NOTICE what is happening in the
marketplace and CARE about what real
people actually WANT ... there are
always rebuttals about creative
integrity and personal vision and
artistic freedom.
FINE!
You guys go make the only things you
want to make and let me talk to the
people who are looking for their niche
and a maybe willing to bend a little
to serve a new customer base.
My words to them ....
You have not sold out if you make what
people want in the colors they like.
The world will not end because you
glaze something blue ... well, actually
this year it is more of an iris blue
but you get the drift.
It can be exciting and most challenging
to meld your vision with current trends.
Yes Rikki, you are correct. You do not
see my work in Pottery Barn ...
BUT ...
I do watch the color trends and I do use
them in my designs.
What is wrong with people buying your work
because the colors are right for their home?
Maybe someday brown will make a huge comeback
then the purists will all have to switch
to blue to avoid being trendy and popular.
Chris Campbell - in North Carolina
--
Chris Campbell Pottery LLC
9417 Koupela Drive
Raleigh NC 27615-2233
Designs in Colored Porcelain
1-800-652-1008
Fax : 919-676-2062
website: www.ccpottery.com
wholesale : www.wholesalecrafts.com
Vince Pitelka on fri 3 oct 08
L. Turner wrote:
"If you make stuff only for yourself then you should keep it.
If you make stuff for others, then you should make what they want to keep.
You can enjoy making both."
Dear L. -
I think you misunderstood Tony. Making the work you truly believe in is a
very noble endeavor, and it is what artists do. If you have a personal
vision and truly believe in yourself as an artist, then you have no choice
but to pursue that vision. That needn't be the only thing you do, and it is
possible to let some of your work be steered by the marketplace. But
regarding your comments above, if you demean people who make work that
arises from personal vision and commitment by saying things like "If you
make stuff for yourself then you should keep it.", you are not only making
yourself look foolish, you are also being very disrespectful to the artists
who do have such vision.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with letting the marketplace steer the
direction of your work, but if that was the way all artists worked then art
would stagnate very quickly. The artists who have a personal vision and
pursue that vision no matter what are the ones that move art forwards.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
May Luk on sat 4 oct 08
Hello all:
There is also a difference between =E2=80=98artist=E2=80=9D and functional =
potter with an attitude. If you make functional work, and your mug is too s=
mall for your big nose customers. And if the glaze colour does not enhance =
the food and not compliment one=E2=80=99s environment, then don=E2=80=99t c=
omplain that you are making =E2=80=9Cart=E2=80=99 and you are misunderstood=
. You are only solving your own problem and disregard other people=E2=80=99=
s needs. Not a lot of potters can shift their position like Gwen Hanssen-Pi=
ggott. I cannot tell if she is successful.
Most of the =E2=80=9Cpotters=E2=80=9D on this list are really teachers. Tha=
t=E2=80=99s why they can afford to make high ideal statements like follow y=
our art instinct, etc. It=E2=80=99s their job to push their students to aim=
high. I heard it from all my teachers in my illustration classes (my first=
degree). Bread and butter job was sell out. My illustration teachers all t=
ook what they did was =E2=80=9Cart=E2=80=9D; In effect, it is only commerci=
al art.
My 2 cents worth
May
Brooklyn NY
[...]
>=20
> There is absolutely nothing wrong with letting the
> marketplace steer the
> direction of your work, but if that was the way all artists
> worked then art
> would stagnate very quickly. The artists who have a
> personal vision and
> pursue that vision no matter what are the ones that move
> art forwards.
> - Vince
>=20
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft
> Tennessee Tech University
> vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka=0A=0A=0A
Lee Love on sat 4 oct 08
On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 11:10 AM, May Luk wrote:
> my teachers in my illustration classes (my first degree). Bread and
>butter job was sell out. My illustration teachers all took what they
>did was "art"; In effect, it is only commercial art.
I don't believe most folks here are teachers, unless you are saying we
are all teachers when we educate people about the importance of
creativity.
But, there is no reason why we can't make art and "bread and
butter" work at the same time. They support each other in different
ways.
When we lived at the Northern Warehouse Artist Cooperative, my
functional work always outsold the "high art" that most people made
there. But as time passed, "high artists" figured out things they
could make, that were affordable, that folks could buy. These little
things like T-shirts, postcards, greeting cards, photo reproductions
and 'fridge magnets were little ambassadors into peoples' homes and
sometimes let to the sale or expensive "fine arts" later. But also,
they are a chance to educate the public.
Art is essential to human life. Making art is essential. We
become diseased if we are reduced to only being consumers. We cannot
afford not to have art. It is the medicine for what ails us.
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://heartclay.blogspot.com/
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
http://claycraft.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do.
There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi
Lee Love on sat 4 oct 08
May,
I think everybody is having problems in these economic times.
Japan and Thailand had their real estate crashes much earlier. So it
isn't just potters having trouble. Actually, I think artists are
having a much more difficult time than potters are.
Many of my potter friends in Japan have been having economic
problems the entire time I was in Japan. I arrived in '99, and each
consecutive year was harder than the last. Almost all the foreign
potters have either turned to teaching english or have gone home.
Jean asked the city tax guy how potters were doing at the pottery
festival and he made a graphic downward plummeting curve in the air.
But, everything goes in cycles. If we stick with it, no matter
what we have to do, it will turn around eventually.
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://heartclay.blogspot.com/
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
http://claycraft.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do.
There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi
Taylor Hendrix on sat 4 oct 08
Hey May:
I've now seen this thread come up at least 3 or four times since I
have been on the list and I'm always catching myself simultaneously
wishing I were an arteeste and just being thankful someone has
purchased a mug of mine.
No rule exists that states you can not be both. You and others know
it, Vince and Lee have said it. I'm starting to understand it myself.
I just want to make some pots, some pottery, some ceramic objects. I
want to make these things from scratch or as near scratch as I can
make them because I enjoy that, because it satisfies me.
Now, because these goals must also accommodate the reality of my
economic situation, I have to broker some kind of compromise with
myself. Thank goodness I don't have to have a board meeting or put it
to a majority vote. It's just me, so the meeting is usually short.
After all, I want to sell all those things I make.
Tony C. has mentioned several times the idea of moving his work out of
the kitchen into the living room. I can dig that. And by the way, when
he says that, I take it to mean he's not talking about leaving the
house. That is something to think about. Now he is retooling his life
by getting an MFA from a great program. This program is looking to
produce artists. So will we see another shift, is he headed out the
door? Who knows. Why not? Anyone can do it.
Taylor, in Rockport TX
On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 11:10 AM, May Luk wrote:
> Hello all:
>
> There is also a difference between 'artist" and functional potter with an attitude. If you make functional work, and your mug is too small for your big nose customers. And if the glaze colour does not enhance the food and not compliment one's environment, then don't complain that you are making "art' and you are misunderstood. You are only solving your own problem and disregard other people's needs. Not a lot of potters can shift their position like Gwen Hanssen-Piggott. I cannot tell if she is successful.
...
Vince Pitelka on sat 4 oct 08
May Luk wrote:
"Most of the =E2=80=9Cpotters=E2=80=9D on this list are really teachers. =
That=E2=80=99s why they can afford to make high ideal statements like =
follow your art instinct, etc. It=E2=80=99s their job to push their =
students to aim high. I heard it from all my teachers in my illustration =
classes (my first degree). Bread and butter job was sell out. My =
illustration teachers all took what they did was =E2=80=9Cart=E2=80=9D; =
In effect, it is only commercial art."
Dear May -=20
I don't really think you intended for the above statement to come out =
sounding like it did. There are many serious full-time professional =
potters on this list who make amazing work driving by their own vision. =
And should the fact that some of us are teachers in any way diminish =
what we make or what we say? I want to train potters who can go out and =
make a living, but I want them to inform and lead the marketplace, not =
just follow it like a pack of sheep. =20
Any teacher who thinks that a bread-and-butter job is a sell-out is =
living in a dream world. I don't know any teachers like that. The ones =
I know all want their students to make a living.=20
You say "That=E2=80=99s why they can afford to make high ideal =
statements like follow your art instinct, etc. It=E2=80=99s their job to =
push their students to aim high." =20
Well, yeah, but shouldn't it be the goal of every artist/artisan to aim =
high and follow their art instincts? What is the point in making just =
the things you already know will sell? Doesn't that get pretty boring =
after a while, unless your ONLY focus is the money you make? Shouldn't =
every artist/artisan be moving forward, experimenting, coming up with =
new ideas and new work, just to keep things interesting and to keep the =
customers interested? Otherwise even the customers get tired of what =
you make. =20
The very best artist-customer relationship (remember that I was a =
full-time potter supporting a family for ten years before I went to grad =
school) is one where the customers look forward to the new items that =
appear at each studio sale. If your work is only steered by analysis of =
the marketplace, then you miss the opportunity to be a leader, and =
instead spend your life as a follower, just chasing dollars. I can't =
see how that could be very satisfying. Again, it seems to me just =
common sense for someone who is trying to make a living to let their =
work be steered by the marketplace to some extent, but if that's all you =
do, what keeps you interested, other than profits?
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Tim See on sun 5 oct 08
May wrote, "I would like to hear clayarters under
forty voice their opinion and how they
view and manage their future in the market place."
So now I have been invited to add a little. I have
kept up as well as I can with this thread, and have
had thoughts on points and will take a little time
here to add with my experiences.
The first discussion point that urged me reply was a
conversation on making what will sell and making what
one feels is an art piece. I understand and
appreciate the wide range in which people dedicate
themselves to their art/craft, but to head off to the
mall for ideas... Gosh to have so little confidence or
imagination as to get ideas from a store... no wonder
ceramics or "pottery" is suffering. If our answer to
changing markets or a decline in sales is to run to
pottery barn to see the seasons new color, or the new
butter dish we deserve to suffer and fizzle out. When
paper, pencil and brains are discarded for a quick
idea, thought of and streamlined to pipe down the
throats the masses wondering through malls, is the day
I quit.
For the most part at shows, galleries, shops, museums,
online, etsy(good God) I see the same thoughtless
ceramic dribble. It is to be expected. It is market
driven. Why not make a berry bowl? It will sell as
sure as it will rain. No matter how bad a mug is
someone will buy it. How can I blame a potter for
making a blue untrimmed mug and selling it for $12. I
can't, it is how they have chosen to make a living. I
can only control what I make. I can educate my
students and my patrons on what I think quality is.
May would like to hear clayarters under forty voice
their opinion and how they
view and manage their future in the market place.
I see the market (shows, shops, and online) flooded
with uninspired work, and for me and others that take
pride in their ideas and craftsmanship that is a great
thing. Really I do. See when we have discussed the
market here we rarely mention competition. We talk
about our customers, and whos buying, where to sell,
what color, what style soap dispenser? I look at it
the other way. What is not out there? Who isn't
buying. I make work that doesn't exist unless I make
it. If someone wants it I am the only game in town. I
can price something, make something, color something
any way I would like. I do not have to worry about the
guy or girl in the next tent selling a brighter blue,
or selling what I make cheaper. Best off all I do what
I LOVE to do. I make no compromises for the market.
That sets me apart. I make pottery or whatever we call
it that people haven't seen before and they love that.
People love a surprise they love seeing a great idea.
So the more of the same ole' they have to wade through
the shinier I look.
I have paid my bills so far. I have seen growth in my
sales every year. this last year was fantastic, I am
even saving now. I am teaching double the students
this session than the last, and more importantly I am
happy. Independence from what is trendy is a healthy
and fulfilling choice.
Tim
May Luk on sun 5 oct 08
Hello Lee;
No need to preach to the choir. Your ideas are well noted and well received=
here. Clayarters are aware of the arts and crafts tradition. But what abou=
t the 'normal' general public - like my friends and relatives I have mentio=
ned in my previous posts - the double-income home owners with post graduate=
education who would not pay $$ for some hand made wares? How do potters re=
ach out to them?=20
If people are not buying pottery for everyday use, then how do the "potter'=
on this list make their living? Teaching, I reckon. Of course I could be w=
rong.
I would like to hear clayarters under forty voice their opinion and how the=
y view and manage their future in the market place.
Regards
May
Brooklyn NY
P.S. For the record, my major purchase last Christmas was a woodfired teapo=
t with willow handle. I bought an ash glaze mug from NH just last month. I =
pay dues to NJ potters guild. I support the pottery community. :-)
--- On Sat, 4/10/08, Lee Love wrote:
[...]
>=20
> Art is essential to human life. Making art is
> essential. We
> become diseased if we are reduced to only being consumers.=20
> We cannot
> afford not to have art. It is the medicine for what ails
> us.
>=20
>=20
> --
> Lee Love in Minneapolis
>=0A=0A=0A
mea rhee on sun 5 oct 08
Here is my personal approach to making pots for selling. (I am under
forty but I don't see why age matters here)
I never ask myself "will somebody buy this?" I always ask myself "if
somebody else made this, would I buy it?"
This is a high standard to pass. I want to buy pottery for my home, but
I also hate clutter and don't have too much disposable income,
therefore I have to be selective. Plus my aesthetic tastes are very
particular. Overall, I understand and trust my own pottery values, and
know when I've met them and when I haven't.
In other words, I am not trying to please the public, I am trying to
please people like me. I can sell my pots as fast as I make them, and I
never feel like a sellout.
Also, I don't think it is a "current" condition that regular people
cannot see the difference in value between a handmade bowl and one
bought from Target. This has always been the case, and will always be.
So it's not a valid excuse. We have to win over individuals one at a
time.
Mea Rhee
gayle bair on sun 5 oct 08
I was going to stay out of this debate but of course I couldn't...
Here's what I wrote to Tim.
Tim,
I have to agree with all your points even though I'm crashing this
thread....as I'm going to be.... yikes.....63 in a few weeks!
I tagged you as a "going to be successful" potter when I started
watching your Utube videos.
The realization that my work had to be MY work came pretty hard and
fast since I also realized I have a shorter amount of time to develop
than you whippersnappers. I've been in clay for only 12 years...&
selling for about 8.
I admit I make items like french butter dishes BUT everyone is a one
of a kind piece like 95% of my work. I get children, teenagers,
adults, boomers and senior citizens buying my work. The children are
a special project of mine. I always give them a huge discount (or give
the piece as a gift) to reward them for noticing and appreciating hand
crafted work. I figure I'm educating and cultivating future patrons of
art & pottery. Frequently the parents will return and buy my pieces
and always remind me of how it impressed their child & they were
touched by my simple act.
Now in my little part of the world I've had more boomers, senior
citizens buying wedding gifts, pieces for their children etc than in
previous years. This past summer I didn't once hear "I'm trying to
downsize". Well....actually I heard it once..... when I said it to a
friend!
I'm not in the big sales league so I cannot boast that I'm selling
enough to support a family which would be nice but is really not one
of my goals.
My goals are to hear my customers say "I love to come into your booth
because there is always something new" or "That's a beautiful piece!",
to keep churning out new exciting pieces, keep learning & stay as
long as I can in this great community of clay people.
I do observe the yearly styles or color charts but must admit my
creative inspiration resources are usually more ancient than
contemporary. If I hit a creative slump I'll dive into my book
collection of art, artifacts, photography, ancient architecture,
sculpture, paintings going back to petroglyphs and I always find some
new idea pops up and I'm off and running.
BTW, my mugs are one offs, trimmed and sell for $34. The last person
to get one was a girl going off to college. Her mother bought it for
her and she reported back that everyone there keeps admiring it.
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island WA
Tucson AZ
gayle@claybair.com
www.claybair.com
>
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island WA
Tucson AZ
gayle@claybair.com
www.claybair.com
On Oct 5, 2008, at 8:58 AM, Tim See wrote:
> May wrote, "I would like to hear clayarters under
> forty voice their opinion and how they
> view and manage their future in the market place."
> Snip>
>
> May would like to hear clayarters under forty voice
> their opinion and how they
> view and manage their future in the market place.
>
> I see the market (shows, shops, and online) flooded
> with uninspired work, and for me and others that take
> pride in their ideas and craftsmanship that is a great
> thing. Really I do. See when we have discussed the
> market here we rarely mention competition. We talk
> about our customers, and whos buying, where to sell,
> what color, what style soap dispenser? I look at it
> the other way. What is not out there? Who isn't
> buying. I make work that doesn't exist unless I make
> it. If someone wants it I am the only game in town. I
> can price something, make something, color something
> any way I would like. I do not have to worry about the
> guy or girl in the next tent selling a brighter blue,
> or selling what I make cheaper. Best off all I do what
> I LOVE to do. I make no compromises for the market.
> That sets me apart. I make pottery or whatever we call
> it that people haven't seen before and they love that.
> People love a surprise they love seeing a great idea.
> So the more of the same ole' they have to wade through
> the shinier I look.
>
> I have paid my bills so far. I have seen growth in my
> sales every year. this last year was fantastic, I am
> even saving now. I am teaching double the students
> this session than the last, and more importantly I am
> happy. Independence from what is trendy is a healthy
> and fulfilling choice.
>
> Tim
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on mon 6 oct 08
Hi James, all...
A little ramble...a romp...
Below...amid...
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James F"
> This post didn't seem to make it to the list, so here is the second try.
> Please accept my apologies if you receive it twice.
I am surprised someone of Mr. Castle's experience would have only 'two'
troubling-thoughts.
I am a pretty able Cabinet Maker, and I have had lots of troubling thoughts
constantly, for decades...
Nor can I imagine any occupation in which troubling thoughts would not
occur...or should not occur, and in direct proportion to how one's
awareness, perception, and 'thinking' inevitably occasion them.
> A potter of my acquaintance recently left the art-fair scene. While he was
> still active, he referred to himself as a 'pottery whore', willing to set
> his own aesthetic aside and make 'whatever would sell'. His self-described
> perigee was when he found himself throwing ceramic pigs. One can still
> drive him to sheer embarrassment by mentioning the little kaolinic
> porcines.
Regardless...it sounds like he was not doing Work he genuinely
liked or felt was intrinsically worthwhile...and was trying instead to have
a particularly silly segment of the
public's
operative and casual mentality, lead
him, as a way of getting money...with the Work itself as incidental...
Was he married?
"A Mind is a terrible thing to waste.."
> Perhaps we need a 12-step program.
No...'we' need self respect...and self possession.
If makers-producers and consumers acquiesce to this in themselves, the rest
would follow
easily enough...
It's a slippery slope though...
> Yes, there will always be a market for the hand-made, those who are
> willing to pay a slight premium for an object with a story or for the
> subtle differences that few seem able to recognize.
What has the artefact going for it without any 'story'..?
TeeVee and 'Noose-Papers' and Media generally and 'education' and
'entertainment' AS 'media' and their propaganda in all ways, manage all the
'storys'
already...we have a landscape of
zombies who are over-flowing with being hypnotized by 'storys'...
Maybe that's most of the problem right there...
How can any 'Voice in the Wilderness' compete with that?
Oye...
Too...
There is more to it - or should be - than gratuitous gestures or narratives
offering
little tokens or totems for
patronizing compensatory
depersonalization-hungers...or what by now is the Novelty for it's own sake
of anything being
'Hand Made'...
Quality of integrity of design and
function ( whether
function is
pragmatic-aesthetic or as may be, ) and as-a-whole, matters most as far as
being within what ought to matter, or
ought
to matter, with
'hand-made' being incidental.
I am often reminded of "The Story of the Dancing Dog"...
Wherein - it matters little how well can Dance, but, just that it Dances
at
all.
Thus is the 'where' to which, 'handmade' anymore is consigned...and far too
many people thinking mediocre, half-baked, half-hearted offerings are
supposed to be 'magical' because
of the novelty being attributed of their being made "By Hand!"...even when
made 'with' with facile and cynical rote,
sophomoric élan, bored self-satisfied pedantry, or self-congratulatory
vanity
which falls
very short of quality.
Pirsig...instead of driving himself nuts thinking, ought to have learned to
make things...then, the conundrums would have ceased being so
troublesome...even if his neighbors and the culture, stayed vexingly so.
I doubt the electroshock treatments and thorazine and view from the
expandedmetalcoveredwindow he got were 'quality' in
the sense he was after...don't you?
> I view this much as the market for classical music in this age where a
> 'musician' no longer even needs to know three chords. Mr.Castle merely
> points out that the audience for the craft version of classical music is
> likewise rapidly aging, and few are moving in behind them to fill the
> void. Sure, the remaining market is sufficient to provide many potters
> with a modest living, but how many are left to help create the next
> Wendell Castle?
Who needs 'Wendell Castle'????
I don't...
Do you?
How many will be left to eschew absurdity?
How many are left who are not illiterates? idiots? fools? gourmands? Slaves
wanly sniffing after little consolations while the enormity of their station
eludes them?
How about if we had a population whose base line WAS understanding at least
a few earnest and practical things
amount about self respect...and on that basis, understanding at least the
wholesome basics of Cabinetmaing, Pottery, Plumbing,
Cooking,
Building design and
Construction, Nutrition, Tools, Finance-Money-Banking, Fire Arms,
Explosives,
Animal Husbandry, Agriculture,
Medicine, Soils-Gardening-Landscaping, First Aid, Taxons, Political-Systems,
Electricity, Mechanics, Painting, Roofing, Concrete, Sewing, Zoology,
History...Biology...Physiology...Sheet Metal Work...being
able not
only to
do lots of things
well-enough for themselves, but, for eachother, or in concert. And to have
some sense for
evaluating WHAT others are doing or offering, on the basis of some actual
insight and
intimate experience?
People who were not 'needy', and gullible, and helpless and trying to
substitute orders of 'thinking' or orders of
political-social-liberalism-appeasement, as substitutes for doing...for
doing they will
never
do...in other
words.
Who wants a society of the mentally/spiritually/pragmatically impoverished,
'challenged'...idiots...incompetents, dependants,
whose only role is to get reemed or had any time they need anything, or to
reem someone else anytime someone else needs something...or to
pay admission
to look 'up' at what someone 'special' else does or did? With "Zero" to
not-much
baseline of comprehension or perspective or perspicuity or ability
themselves
to judge any
of it?
Oceans of imbeciles looking 'up'...
Obama IS 'Hope'!
Yeeeeeeesh...
Insanity...
Granted, we gotta work-with-what-we-got...
How to assay that?
Is the 'answer' to become a next 'Wendell Castle'?
> New York 'collectors' routinely spend $250,000, $500,000, or even $1
> million on fairly generic abstract paintings by living artists.
Who are these people?
How did they get their money?
> A friend in New York recently attended an exhibition consisting of five
> pieces by a 36-year-old painter, each priced at $1 million, and all marked
> 'sold'. I am guessing that the serious collectors of craft could be
> counted on one's appendages, and that to count the collectors of high-end
> craft one might need only the appendages on their hands.
Granted, some 'Art' or 'highendcraft' is way for people to store surplus
money, even as
'Pasta', historically, was a way to store surplus 'Eggs'.
> In ceramics we have those rare and treasured folks like Tom Turnquist, but
> how many Mr. Turnquists are out there?
Better yet...how many 'Zed's gesturing on Horseback, just outside the
transparent
perimeters of the Vortexortexorteortexortex... ?
( ...referencing the old film 'Zardoz'...)
Lets just say - "Way not enough"
> With so few serious collectors of craft, the odds of one such as he even
> noticing one of my (or anyone's) pieces amongst the clamor is close to
> nil.
Always a Bride's Maid...
...never a Hell's Angel's initiate...
If every 'serious collector of craft' dropped dead this minute...no one who
had anything real or wholesome to do would even notice...or care...
> Even if a serious collector does notice one's work, Mr. Castle
> contends that the odds are that he or she is no longer acquiring. A case
> in point: I recently heard from a gallerist who represents my sculptural
> work. She told me that a member of the Guggenheim family stopped in, and
> was admiring one of my pieces. He fairly raved about the work, but when
> she suggested he add it to his collection the elderly gentleman replied
> that at 84 years of age, he was trying to get rid of things, not add more.
> While certainly a boost to the ego, this endorsement, plus $1.50, will get
> me a cup of coffee.
Well, if you looked like Anna Nicole Smith, you mightagotta date with the
old geezer...played Bumpsie-Daisy, Hide-the-Salami-Stub, or got set up in an
apartment, or who knows, maybe even Wedding-Bells...
Sculpture-smulpture...
And too...
It's one thing to have a member of one's family...
Another thing...to have a 'pet'...
Another thing, to have a 'Zoo'...
Just what is the 'function' of an artefact in those contexts?
Duh Button...duh Button...whobegotsduh Button?
>> She is pleasing a young person who does not
>> discriminate between handmade here or
>> handmade anywhere.
>>
>> That young person might even get a do gooder
>> thrill from supporting native village 'crafts'
>> in another part of the world.
Lol...
Yes...
'Pleasing' to who?
In what way?
No Big Boozookuhs for reeling in a REALLY good billionairengeezer 'catch',
so
settled for some innocuous dweeb-with-a-paycheck and 'bennies'?
Recently I was having a telephone conversation with someone who was getting
some of my Work...and being as they were getting six items, totalling
around threehundreddollars, they decided into trying to haggle for a
discount.
Earlier in the conversation, they had meandered into an anecdote about
paying well over a thousand dollars for a smallish item of luxury-apparel,
made in
a poor country, because they felt morally compelled to support the 'Weaver'
who under a series of middlemen, and hyped-retailer-brochure jive,
supposedly made the
item...and who probably sells such items locally for I dunno, fifteen bucks
or something...in a place where fifteen bucks would feed a family of five
for-a-month.
I guess I could feed a family of 'five' for-a-month here on
three-hundred-bucks, but only if I were mighty clever about how I did
so...and only
if the 'five' were willing to go along with it and pitch in with other
chores...then again,
it might be pretty difficult to do, even at that.
So yes...best send a Thousand-and-change to a middleman who will send the
maker's share to a little village in 'Ecuador' ...or whatever...
...sigh...
It is said "You don't know what you got till it's gone..." ( Well, uhhhhh,
Joni Mitchell said so anyway, in the song "Paved
Paradise...put-up-a-parking Lot...Oooooo! Lot-Lot-Lot-Lot-Lot...!" )
Truth is...few people even notice it then...or have all along...and
mostly what was lost...was them...and their ability to notice.
I guess, far as this person was concerned, this desire to 'support' (
meaning in part, to refrain from 'haggling' ) would
not
apply to me, since I am 'White'...'male'...North American, working alone,
and, three ( four
now ) day's
Work will
feed me, the old Step-Van, and handfull of little Beaks
for ohhhhhhh, two weeks...but "barely"...scantly...'feed' only...not
counting other
expenses...
And we
are not part of a nodding Tree
village or UN or
worldbank
program, I am not represented in any hypey-brochures hamming pithy
ground-squatting-humble=dusty-toe
tradition, no 'pudding-bowl' Haircuts and imploring eyes looking 'up' to the
Camera...there's no
middlemen raking it in, and I am living in an urban downtown slum rather
than
in the
third-world proper...and since I only
happened to have kept 'alive' some vivid and earnest continuitys of no
bullshit
'American' Craft...
No 'forest' to see here folks...only some 'Trees'...actually...more like
'Tumbleweeds' at this point...
> I tend to agree with Ms. Campbell's sentiment, at least in the low or very
> low end of the craft market where most of us operate (as opposed to the
> high or very high end occupied by a Wendell Castle or a Brother Thomas or
> a Mr. Heino). While Mr. Castle sells $200,000 settees to museums, so is
> relatively immune, he laments the aging of those folks willing to shell
> out $15,000 for a dining table or credenza. Our own plight seems much
> worse as we try to sell $40 or $100 or $300 pots.
Oye...
> When I visited China a dozen or so years ago, one of my stops was at a
> granite processor. Throngs of workers toiled for 10 hours per day around
> massive unguarded gang saws. When a member of my group inquired as to how
> much money the workers were paid, the plant manager proudly replied that
> they were 'very highly paid, one U.S. Dollar per day'. At another stop at
> an embroidery factory, we purchased a gorgeous hand-embroidered silk panel
> for a song. Row after row of women, from early teens through grandmothers,
> sat at little tables hand-stitching day in and day out. They were paid
> piecework, if I recall correctly it was about $1 or so per large panel.
Hey...it's "diversity"...!
Yer really gunna love 'em when there's a line fourty wide, and twenty miles
long, doing the 'Elbow March' across Kansas, past Parade Stands of
slow-nodding, smiling, spangled, geriatric
Generals waving wanly from their foldingchairs with liverspot hands soft as
baby's.
How are you at Planting 'Corn', barefoot, at bayonet-point?
They would bring 'discipline' let's say...
Lol...
> If it is true that the modern craft buyer does not discriminate based on
> geographic origin, then this, folks, is what we are competing with. I keep
> a really nice vase on my desk, nice form, elegant details, and a really
> lovely breaking blue-brown glaze. I bought it at a discount chain store
> for $3, marked down from $6.99 retail. I refer to it as my 'What's the
> Point' vase.
Yup...
>>... but for me what is the point of being an artist and a
>>designer if I am using Pottery Barn as my influence?
Well...like with any terms...there are tenses...
If it were me...I'd have a Pottery 'Manger'...
> I think we need to
>>follow our instincts and develop our own ideas, or nothing we do will
>>bring
>>us what we want. That is the satisfaction of doing our own style.
Yes...
Yes...
&
"Yes"
The other day I watched the old film "The Fountainhead"...
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...golly....
> Some young friends, a recently married couple, told me that they needed a
> small table for their apartment and asked if I would make one for them,
> knowing that woodworking was my main creative outlet before being seduced
> by clay. They explained that they preferred something 'home-made' over
> store-bought, and that they would rather the money went to someone they
> knew. Both noble sentiments, but at odds with reality.
I know the drill...
> They were
> dumbfounded when I explained to them that it would cost me more to
> purchase the required locally grown and cut raw lumber than the store
> charged for a finished table shipped half way around the world.
Well...yes...but...I would hope the 'Table' itself, you woulda made, as a
'Table', would have something going for it, which the Table 'as' a generic
import, would lack.
"Price is what you pay...Value is what you get"...
Or however that went.
Lets just say...you did not really care very much about making a small
'Table' which could-be-made under the circumstances...you
cared about money, and 'narrative', with 'table' as pretext...yes?
No?
Sounds like 'yes'...
Tell her...you can get imported-from-halfway-around-the-world, cute,
wiggley, early-teenage, generic 'House
Maid Girls' at ohhhhh, five dollars-a-day, or own them outright for a few
grand, who will do 'anything'...cook,
scrub, do laundry, sing, relieve 'tensions', rake Leaves, Iron the Sheets,
giggle demurely, Shine Shoes,
on and on.
Better yet, tell her husband this as she is standing there.
I bet he'd head for the 'Paxil' like a Horse-to-the-Barn...
THEN get back to the 'table' topic...
> A neighbor
> brought over a half dozen hand-painted tiles she brought home from China.
> She wanted to use them in a backsplash in her kitchen. She asked if I
> could make her the rest of the required tiles to go with her Chinese
> treasures, explaining that she didn't want to spend the money that would
> have been required to assemble the entire backsplash out of Chinese tiles.
> She too was speechless when I explained to her that I would have to charge
> more for simple, undecorated field tiles than she paid for her fancy
> hand-painted specimens.
And or also...
They were neither honest nor self-aware as for 'what' they 'wanted'.
Which is exactly WHY they are where-they-are-at in the first place - banal,
stupid, shallow, tritely 'ikea-starbux' urban, and hypnotized by a wan
lifetime of 'conveniences'...
insipidly
'nice'...the morally already 'dead', gesturing 'pee-cee' sign-language with
flopping
exanguine arms, gesturing from the mists
and miasma of a swamp already full of floating bloated corpses all similarly
'waving' as they roll over in the slow turbulent roil of our
broader cultural suicide...
Ultimately, such people are far more 'dangerous' than an armed robber,
drunkdriver
or arsonist...who needs 'tear-or-wrists' when we got millions of dimwitted
complaisents
who are infinitely better poised for destroying everything in their own
insideous 'nice' ways.
Gen "X" are they?
Lotsa 'college'?
...sigh...
Did they sign up for 'adopting' one of those supermarket trifold
image-brochure city-village-kids in 'Guatemala?
You know, for only $38.00-a-Month as auto-pay on-the-debit-card?
Of course, if one can financially support a little girl breeding steadily by
age '12'
or so, to drop another baby every year or so after... to
do
her part in how her country can not feed or manage itself anyway, but keeps
mindlessly
breeding and soaking up billions in 'aid' to dependant juntas...while
clear-cutting what's left of the equatorial
Forests for growing 'soybeans' or whatever else for
communistredchinesemiddlemen to add
melamine to...for you or me or anyone else to eat as whatever
ingredients in
foods...
May as well buy stock in 'Dialysis' clinics too...and get yer
thirtyeightbucks
back, and then some...with all the Kidney failure when the melamine
metabolizes into cyanide...hey, it's "Business!"
Probably the chineeeeese generals already own most of the dialysis clinic
stock anyway...
...sigh...
What do these 'nice' people do-for-a-living, anyway?
Some dot-com thing?
Or are they university professors?
Sounds like 'Berkeley'...
> How much difference is there between a slip cast, small-scale factory
> produced Bill Campbell pot and a slip cast, large-scale factory produced
> Chinese pot? How much between a piecework (production) art fair pot and a
> piecework Chinese or Mexican pot? For that matter, how much between a
> Herman Miller Eames Chair and the third-world knock-off? Is the fifth leg
> really worth the extra $3000? What do we really offer with our hand-made
> pottery other than the fifth leg?
To whom the 'difference' makes any difference, possibly is more the matter.
And, what 'difference' they would make...for anything making a difference to
them?...and thus their making any difference because of it, for their then
making a difference to anyone
else...whether that anyone-else makes any difference?
What difference does the difference make, and to whom, and what difference
does the to-whom make...is something I brood on often...
I even have 'troubling thoughts' about it...
> As I said, much to think about.
Yes...
What have we ( left ) to even think about it with?
And what do we do with what we think about it?
What do we understand, for having thought-about-it?
Did we even really think-about-it at all?
Hard to tell...
> Be well.
>
> ...James
Likewise...
Love,
Phil
l v
Mayssan Farra on mon 6 oct 08
Dear Chris;=0A=0ADo not be upset. the mostly silent majority are always lis=
tening and looking for good business advice. We; that have seen your work a=
nd lusted after it, know=A0what you are talking about, and always appreciat=
e these discussions. Whatever we learn,it is because of all the varied conf=
licting and contradictory points of view on this forum. The most important =
aspect of clayart is the variety of opinions from studio artists and academ=
ics to hobbiests,=A0marketing experts, glaze gurus and even=A0tax professio=
nals and computer geeks:)=0A=0AI think we all should develope a thicker ski=
n (easier said than done) and take the contradictoty point of view just as =
that.=0A=0AMayssan who is busy herself with Christmas orders and always on =
the lookout for new inspiration everywhere including ( oh my goodness) the =
MALL:), =0A=A0=0AMayssan Shora Farra=0Ahttp://www.clayvillepottery.com=0Aht=
tp://clayette.blogspot.com=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: C=
hristine Campbell =0ATo: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.O=
RG=0ASent: Sunday, October 5, 2008 9:12:39 PM=0ASubject: Re: Two troubling =
thoughts from Wendell Castle=0A=0AI am always sorry when I post business=0A=
advice. I usually swear I will NEVER do=0Ait again, but this time I really =
will try.=0A=0A=0ADo you think I am so stupid I will take a=0Asketch book w=
ith me to capture the shape of=0Aa lovely machine made butter dish???=0A=0A=
Oh goodness, let me make an exact copy of=0Athat blue bowl since there are =
only ten=0Azillion of them for sale here.=0A=0A=0AAND ... my goodness ...=
=0Ais she actually telling us to visit a mall!=0A=0AHome of the stupid, ins=
ipid and just plain not=0Aour type of people?=0A=0AWhat could we possibly l=
earn from observing=0Astores that PAY people to predict what people=0Awant?=
?=0A=0AWhat can we learn from looking and listening?=0AWhat can we learn fr=
om non-judgmental watching?=0A=0ANothing worthwhile obviously.=0A=0A=0AChri=
s Campbell - in North Carolina=0A=0A=0A--=0AChris Campbell Pottery LLC=0A94=
17 Koupela Drive=0ARaleigh NC 27615-2233=0A=0ADesigns in Colored Porcelain=
=0A=0A1-800-652-1008=0AFax : 919-676-2062=0Awebsite: www.ccpottery.com=0Awh=
olesale : www.wholesalecrafts.com=0A=0A=0A=0A
Eva Gallagher on mon 6 oct 08
Hi - I have to admit that getting inspiration form the "mall" is what I do
all the time. It does not mean you have to copy. Last weekend did a craft
fair held at a large nursery that also carries a lot of imported home decor
items. The craft fair was bust - but got two great ideas.One was orchid pots
that the nursery was selling - made in Thailand. Pots with holes on the
sides. There is a lot of room for creative expression with these which I
will explore and orchids now are "in plants". They have become reasonably
priced and many are very easy to grow.
The other idea was a dip dish that fits into a larger pot that would hold
ice. With people all worried about food contamination this could be a big
seller - again lots of room for creative expression here.
Eva Gallagher
Deep River, Ontario
http://stevenhilljourneyworkshopjuly2008.blogspot.com/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mayssan Farra"
To:
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 8:27 AM
Subject: Re: Two troubling thoughts from Wendell Castle
Dear Chris;
Do not be upset. the mostly silent majority are always listening and looking
for good business advice. We; that have seen your work and lusted after it,
know what you are talking about, and always appreciate these discussions.
Whatever we learn,it is because of all the varied conflicting and
contradictory points of view on this forum. The most important aspect of
clayart is the variety of opinions from studio artists and academics to
hobbiests, marketing experts, glaze gurus and even tax professionals and
computer geeks:)
I think we all should develope a thicker skin (easier said than done) and
take the contradictoty point of view just as that.
Mayssan who is busy herself with Christmas orders and always on the lookout
for new inspiration everywhere including ( oh my goodness) the MALL:),
Mayssan Shora Farra
http://www.clayvillepottery.com
http://clayette.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Christine Campbell
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Sent: Sunday, October 5, 2008 9:12:39 PM
Subject: Re: Two troubling thoughts from Wendell Castle
I am always sorry when I post business
advice. I usually swear I will NEVER do
it again, but this time I really will try.
Do you think I am so stupid I will take a
sketch book with me to capture the shape of
a lovely machine made butter dish???
Oh goodness, let me make an exact copy of
that blue bowl since there are only ten
zillion of them for sale here.
AND ... my goodness ...
is she actually telling us to visit a mall!
Home of the stupid, insipid and just plain not
our type of people?
What could we possibly learn from observing
stores that PAY people to predict what people
want??
What can we learn from looking and listening?
What can we learn from non-judgmental watching?
Nothing worthwhile obviously.
Chris Campbell - in North Carolina
--
Chris Campbell Pottery LLC
9417 Koupela Drive
Raleigh NC 27615-2233
Designs in Colored Porcelain
1-800-652-1008
Fax : 919-676-2062
website: www.ccpottery.com
wholesale : www.wholesalecrafts.com
Christine Campbell on mon 6 oct 08
Did not mean to get all snarky!
BUT...
I get upset when people want things
to be just black and white.
You are either pure at heart or
buying at Walmart ...
and why is it always Walmart?
How did Target and K-Mart and Dollar
Store duck out of the line of fire?
Smarter marketing or a lower profile?
Anyhow...
Here is an example of why I try to teach
the importance of knowing colors and trends.
I went to a pottery festival two years ago
and there was a booth of well made pottery.
Fine forms, lovely nesting bowls, well made
vases, mugs and dishes ... glazes fit well.
Nothing lacking in the skill department.
Better than a lot of others actually.
Unfortunately they were ALL glazed with a truly
horrible green and mustard yellow combination.
Not only was their booth empty but I really
think it was affecting the sales in nearby
booths.
I am sure they went home that evening wondering
what they did wrong, why they had failed, why
they had no money. Maybe questioned whether they
should even stick with pottery making.
Had this work been glazed in different colors
the potter would have sold a ton.
Would nicer colors have helped his bottom line?
Definitely.
Would changing compromise his artistic integrity?
Maybe.
But maybe he would have rather had money to pay
the bills.
If you have your own sales studio or have regular
customers buying from you, you get to hear their
input all the time. If you are really smart you ask
leading questions about your new work or forms to
get their impressions.
But ... if you are making work for months for a show
and doing it alone ... you do not get this kind of
direction. You can end up with work no one wants simply
because you chose the wrong glaze.
And that is a real shame.
Chris Campbell - in North Carolina
--
Chris Campbell Pottery LLC
9417 Koupela Drive
Raleigh NC 27615-2233
Designs in Colored Porcelain
1-800-652-1008
Fax : 919-676-2062
website: www.ccpottery.com
wholesale : www.wholesalecrafts.com
Christine Campbell on mon 6 oct 08
I am always sorry when I post business
advice. I usually swear I will NEVER do
it again, but this time I really will try.
Do you think I am so stupid I will take a
sketch book with me to capture the shape of
a lovely machine made butter dish???
Oh goodness, let me make an exact copy of
that blue bowl since there are only ten
zillion of them for sale here.
AND ... my goodness ...
is she actually telling us to visit a mall!
Home of the stupid, insipid and just plain not
our type of people?
What could we possibly learn from observing
stores that PAY people to predict what people
want??
What can we learn from looking and listening?
What can we learn from non-judgmental watching?
Nothing worthwhile obviously.
Chris Campbell - in North Carolina
--
Chris Campbell Pottery LLC
9417 Koupela Drive
Raleigh NC 27615-2233
Designs in Colored Porcelain
1-800-652-1008
Fax : 919-676-2062
website: www.ccpottery.com
wholesale : www.wholesalecrafts.com
James F on tue 7 oct 08
Phil=2C you are an absolute trip! A throwback to the 19th Century=2C steep=
ed briefly in the 60s=2C dusted lightly with 90s Gen-X angst=2C then droppe=
d into hostile territory behind enemy lines in the 21st Century? You would=
be a great guy to have a beer or six with! I love reading your posts. Yo=
u write just like a friend of mine=2C a young painter. It takes me days an=
d multiple readings to decipher all of the nuance in his correspondence too=
!
You have provided a veritable feast for the philosophic mind=2C but I fear =
we are already boring much of the list. This thread has long ago morphed f=
rom it's philosophical roots into a debate on marketing versus artistic int=
egrity versus both=2C which is great too. Nonetheless=2C here are comments=
on just a few of your thoughts:
Who needs Wendell Castle? This could be argued=2C but I employed him as a =
metaphor for extreme commercial success in the crafts. In the beginning fo=
lks bought his work because it was good and it was real. Now they buy it b=
ecause it was made by Wendell Castle. It may still be good and real or it =
may not=2C but once one attains commercial success it seems no longer to be=
relevant. If Picasso painted it=2C it must be good=2C or at least worth o=
wning. Obtaining a "following" seems to be the ticket to commercial succes=
s=2C whether on Wendell Castle's scale=2C on David Hendley's or Mayor Mel's=
=2C or on that of the potter selling slab dishes with birds painted on them=
on Etsy.
On "selling out to the market"=2C I believe the fear on the part of those o=
f the "artistic integrity" mindset is that commercialism could prove a slip=
pery slope=2C with the Sirens of lucre enticing one to artistic death. Fir=
st one agrees to make one's forms in a color requested by a client=2C even =
if that color does not appeal to oneself. If I've compromised on color=2C =
I may as well make the form requested by a client even if it does not fit m=
y aesthetic. If I've compromised on form=2C I may as well make lotion disp=
ensers=2C and if I'm making lotion dispensers=2C I may as well throw stonew=
are pigs. I personally disagree with this fear in most cases and fall into=
the "you can have both" camp=2C but I certainly understand the argument. =
Lili laments those who enter the market before their skills have matured. =
I believe the "slippery slope" argument could prove very real for those who=
enter the market before their artistic vision has matured.
The folks who wanted the little table were a pair of newly married college =
students. They legitimately believed=2C as do many=2C that homemade is che=
aper and better than store bought. Yes=2C the table I would have made woul=
d have been "better" than an import. It would have been an honest statemen=
t of my aesthetic (as though that were worth anything)=2C and would have la=
sted generations rather than mere years. It also would have cost them doub=
le what they could afford even if I worked for minimum wage and charged not=
hing for depreciation on my tools. The folks with the Chinese tiles are a =
pair of small town elementary school teachers. They honestly see the Chine=
se tiles as beautiful (which they are) and exotic=2C and my tiles as "homem=
ade". My point in that part of the discussion was simply to point out the =
dichotomy twixt the reality of the costs of being a craftsman in the develo=
ped world versus the perception of the economics of the homemade.
Why do I make "sculpture"? I believe it is because there are things in my =
mind that want to come out=2C and this is the form they are taking at the m=
oment. I do not buy into the "sculpture is better than pots=2C and paintin=
gs are better than sculpture" or the "stone is better than clay=2C and bron=
ze is better than stone" hierarchical nonsense. I just speak in the voice =
I was given and say what I need to say. It is for others to judge "better"=
.
As to the state of humanity today=2C it has perhaps always been thus=2C and=
yet we survive and grow. Take care of yourself and those you care about. =
You can't change the world by decree=2C but you can lead by example.
Be well=2C my friend.
...James
> Date: Mon=2C 6 Oct 2008 19:13:58 -0700
> From: pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET
>=20
>=20
> A little ramble...a romp...
>=20
>=20
> Below...amid...
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Phil
> l v
_________________________________________________________________
See how Windows connects the people=2C information=2C and fun that are part=
of your life.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/=
May Luk on wed 8 oct 08
Hello Chris and friends;
There is another point of view to this and it is not wrong either; he is si=
mply doing his own thing and leading the trend.=20
When I was an illustrator, one of my bread and butter job is textile design=
. It=E2=80=99s work on spec. Something I am not supposed to do =E2=80=93 an=
idea taught at school. If the color was wrong, like bright pastel hues in =
winter, the print would not sell. Re-coloring it would guarantee sales. It=
=E2=80=99s not to do with my color sense, some colors just don=E2=80=99t wo=
rk, even it=E2=80=99s very beautiful in nature. (I have also done bread and=
butter job of technical drawings for ceramic company. No no! not working i=
n my own style - also not advisable when in school =E2=80=93 but hey, I nee=
d a J-O-B)
If one is running a business, at whatever location, at whatever price point=
, whether it=E2=80=99s art or craft or design (art is business, big time, i=
n my view) The end goal is to make the products to spec, meet the brief for=
the target audience and said target audience is engaged, subscribed to the=
ideas and the seller is making a living with it. (ie: Annual turnaround >0=
)=20
My 2 troubling thought today is =E2=80=9Cartist=E2=80=9D potter, who is not=
interested in running a creative business, belittle their customer=E2=80=
=99s taste with their inflated sense of self-importance. And my 2 income ed=
ucated home owning relatives are so accustomed to getting discount bargains=
from department stores. Their values about =E2=80=9Cthings=E2=80=9D are di=
storted and they think handmade ceramics are =E2=80=9Cexpensive and then th=
ey break=E2=80=9D. Well, no handmade berry bowls made in the USA for them.
I am just rambling from my desk at my day job. I am too trust-fundless to =
go to the studio.
May
Brooklyn aka Kings County, NY
--- On Mon, 6/10/08, Christine Campbell wrote:
[...]
> Here is an example of why I try to teach
> the importance of knowing colors and trends.
>=20
> I went to a pottery festival two years ago
> and there was a booth of well made pottery.
> Fine forms, lovely nesting bowls, well made
> vases, mugs and dishes ... glazes fit well.
> Nothing lacking in the skill department.
> Better than a lot of others actually.
>=20
> Unfortunately they were ALL glazed with a truly
> horrible green and mustard yellow combination.
>=20
> Not only was their booth empty but I really
> think it was affecting the sales in nearby
> booths.
>=20
[...]=0A=0A=0A
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