Lee Love on wed 1 oct 08
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 8:15 AM, Angela Davis wrote:
> I have just read John Britt's article on cone 6 reduction firing
> and am pumped to get my gas kiln going.
> Ceramics Monthly, "Mid Range Reduction,"
>
> http://www.ceramicartsdaily.org/magazines/Ceramics%20Monthly/2008octmidrangereduction.aspx
Those glazes look great. But at NCC, the price break for gas or
gas/soda is at cone 1. Cone 6 cost the same as cone 10. Talking to
Ron Meyers, he fires salt at cone 03 and has good functional ware.
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://heartclay.blogspot.com/
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
http://claycraft.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do.
There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi
Ron Roy on sun 5 oct 08
Not so easy to make functrional ware at cone 1 or cone 3 - you have to add
so much melter it's easy to get overfired or underfired clay.
Materials are more expensive down there and most will need to make your own
clay.
And it does cost more to fire to cone 10 than to cone 6 - and you need more
frits to help melt glazes.
I'm all for cutting down on burning but remember - frits are melted materials.
RR
>Those glazes look great. But at NCC, the price break for gas or
>gas/soda is at cone 1. Cone 6 cost the same as cone 10. Talking to
>Ron Meyers, he fires salt at cone 03 and has good functional ware.
Ron Roy
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Lee Love on sun 5 oct 08
On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 11:27 PM, Ron Roy wrote:
> Not so easy to make functrional ware at cone 1 or cone 3 - you have to add
> so much melter it's easy to get overfired or underfired clay.
>
> Materials are more expensive down there and most will need to make your own
> clay.
This isn't true. I would not discourage folks from pursuing this
temperature. It has always made more sense to me than the commerical
temperature of cone 6.
Continental Clay's earthenware vitrifies at cone 1. And it will
fire higher. I found a very simple liner glaze out of Chappel.
Also tested one of his redware claybodies that is very nice. I had
good luck with the terra sigs too.
But speaking to Ron Meyers, who fires at cone 03 in a vapor
atmosphere, I see no reason to limit to cone 1. He said his work is
all functional. He uses native Georgia clays in his clay body. I
was really happy to run into Ron at NCC. It was great to stand in
front of his work and handle it while asking him questions about it.
He is very generous with information.
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://heartclay.blogspot.com/
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
http://claycraft.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do.
There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi
Ivor and Olive Lewis on mon 6 oct 08
Dear Lee,
I find you comments about lower maturity points interesting. But do
you know how Mr Myers validates his claim ?
Are samples of his work tested in an accredited laboratory ?
Which form of Vapour Glazing is being used ?
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
South Australia.
<atmosphere, I see no reason to limit to cone 1. He said his work is
all functional. He uses native Georgia clays in his clay body.>>
Ron Roy on fri 10 oct 08
Hi Lee,
No doubt about it - it is more difficult at cone 1 and cone 3 - and more
expensive. That is if you are trying to make leak proof pots that can work
properly in a microwave situation.
To give an example why - Red Art - an earthenware clay - which is used
extensively for low fire red clay bodies is quite variable - the results of
testing 65 samples over 4 years at 04 gives an absorption range of 8.2 to
11.4. How would you cope with that kind of variation if you were trying to
make properly vitrified ware with a body dominated by Red Art?
Cone 6 - a commercial temperature - what gives you that idea? It is a good
temperature to work at for stoneware because the alkaline earth fluxes are
useful there - which makes it an economic temperature to work at.
The alkaline earths are not fluxes at cone 1 and 3 so you have to use more
expensive fluxes down there - and you lose any economic advantage.
When we have to make such choices we should try to be aware of all the
aspects of the problem - so we can make the right choice for ourselves -
don't you think?
RR
>On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 11:27 PM, Ron Roy wrote:
>> Not so easy to make functrional ware at cone 1 or cone 3 - you have to add
>> so much melter it's easy to get overfired or underfired clay.
>>
>> Materials are more expensive down there and most will need to make your own
>> clay.
>
>
>This isn't true. I would not discourage folks from pursuing this
>temperature. It has always made more sense to me than the commerical
>temperature of cone 6.
>
> Continental Clay's earthenware vitrifies at cone 1. And it will
>fire higher. I found a very simple liner glaze out of Chappel.
>Also tested one of his redware claybodies that is very nice. I had
>good luck with the terra sigs too.
> Lee Love in Minneapolis
Ron Roy
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Vince Pitelka on fri 10 oct 08
Lee Love:
"I take Ron Meyer's at his word. He said his 03 pots don't leak.
The big savings in the soda kiln at NCC is that cone 1 and below is
half the price of cone 6 to 10."
Dear Lee -
I think I would tend to take Ron Meyers at his word about almost anything.
But don't lump cone 6 and cone 10 soda together. When I soda fire in our
kiln (the one that will be featured in Mel's upcoming kiln/firing book) I do
a gentle overnight preheat and turn the kiln up in the morning, and I am
done soda firing by sometime in the afternoon. In the same kiln, the
cone-10 soda-firers are still firing well into the evening. And the burners
are turned up pretty high during that latter period, so I would guess that a
cone 10 soda firing costs near double a cone 6.
A lot of the people who soda fire like the fact that the effects are more
subtle than salt-firing. The effects of cone 6 soda are more subtle than
cone 10, but I get all the effects I want, and on a mature, vitreous body.
I own some of Ron Meyers's low-fire salt pots, and I love them.
- Vince
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://heartclay.blogspot.com/
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
http://claycraft.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do.
There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi
Lee Love on fri 10 oct 08
On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 12:55 AM, Ron Roy wrote:
> Hi Lee,
>
> No doubt about it - it is more difficult at cone 1 and cone 3 - and more
> expensive. That is if you are trying to make leak proof pots that can work
> properly in a microwave situation.
I take Ron Meyer's at his word. He said his 03 pots don't leak.
The big savings in the soda kiln at NCC is that cone 1 and below is
half the price of cone 6 to 10.
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://heartclay.blogspot.com/
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
http://claycraft.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do.
There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi
Lee Love on sat 11 oct 08
On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 9:09 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> Dear Lee -
> I think I would tend to take Ron Meyers at his word about almost anything.
> But don't lump cone 6 and cone 10 soda together.
That is what I was complaining about. Please tell Northern Clay.
THey charge the same for cone 6 and cone 10. Cone 1 is half the
price of cone 6 or cone 10. Doesn't make sense.
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://heartclay.blogspot.com/
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
http://claycraft.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do.
There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi
steve graber on sat 11 oct 08
perhaps the business doesn't see the "fire" as the significant part of thei=
r product cost.=A0 it's likely the whole set of operations leading up and t=
hru the completion of the fire is where the big costs are.=A0 =0A=0Ajust li=
ke running a resturant, the food price isn't the real cost.=A0 it's the bui=
lding, capital, people, accounting, etc.=A0 =0A=A0Steve Graber, Graber's Po=
ttery, Inc=0AClaremont, California USA=0AThe Steve Tool - for awesum textur=
e on pots! =0Awww.graberspottery.com steve@graberspottery.com =0A=0A=0A=0A-=
---- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Lee Love =0ATo: C=
LAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=0ASent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 5:53:06 AM=0ASub=
ject: Re: floating blue, enough already / cone 6 shino!=0A=0AOn Fri, Oct 10=
, 2008 at 9:09 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:=0A=0A> Dear L=
ee -=0A> I think I would tend to take Ron Meyers at his word about almost a=
nything.=0A> But don't lump cone 6 and cone 10 soda together.=0A=0AThat is =
what I was complaining about.=A0 Please tell Northern Clay.=0ATHey charge t=
he same for cone 6 and cone 10.=A0 Cone 1 is half the=0Aprice of cone 6 or =
cone 10.=A0 =A0 Doesn't make sense.=0A=0A--=0ALee Love in Minneapolis=0Ahtt=
p://heartclay.blogspot.com/=0Ahttp://mashikopots.blogspot.com/=0Ahttp://cla=
ycraft.blogspot.com/=0A=0A"Let the beauty we love be what we do.=0AThere ar=
e hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi=0A=0A=0A=0A
Lee Love on sat 11 oct 08
On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 11:29 AM, steve graber wrote:
> perhaps the business doesn't see the "fire" as the significant part of their product >cost. it's likely the whole set of operations leading up and thru the completion of
>the fire is where the big costs are.
>
I don't know. In the past, there was a price savings to bisque at
cone 012 and also to enamel fire. A potter from Mashiko who had space
at NCC in 1990, who never electric fired before or used white clay,
chose to bisque at 012, cone 9 electric firer and then enamel fire
because it was all pretty cheap compared to firing the gas kiln.
Maybe they just wanted to simplify.
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://heartclay.blogspot.com/
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
http://claycraft.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do.
There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi
Ron Roy on sun 19 oct 08
What we need is an explanation of how he does it - to make it easier for
those who coose to work down there.
Did you get a mug?
Are you still saying that cone 6 and 10 cost the same?
RR
>On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 12:55 AM, Ron Roy wrote:
>> Hi Lee,
>>
>> No doubt about it - it is more difficult at cone 1 and cone 3 - and more
>> expensive. That is if you are trying to make leak proof pots that can work
>> properly in a microwave situation.
>
> I take Ron Meyer's at his word. He said his 03 pots don't leak.
>The big savings in the soda kiln at NCC is that cone 1 and below is
>half the price of cone 6 to 10.
>
>
>--
> Lee Love in Minneapolis
Ron Roy
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Lee Love on sun 19 oct 08
On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 1:16 PM, Ron Roy wrote:
> Did you get a mug?
No. My relocation has made me cash poor. I didn't have an extra $40.00
> Are you still saying that cone 6 and 10 cost the same?
Yes. Doesn't make sense does it?
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://heartclay.blogspot.com/
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
http://claycraft.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do.
There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi
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