James F on thu 2 oct 08
>- survival mode time folks - unless you
> are a hobbyist=2C in which case make whatever you like. As for me I like =
to
> eat more than once a month so if FB sells=2C FB it is=2C want a butter be=
ll?
> GAG! But I will make them because many have no taste=2C but have money. I
> like money.
>
> I feel so cheap.
>
> Larry Kruzan
A potter of my acquaintance recently left the art-fair scene. While he was=
still active=2C he referred to himself as a "pottery whore"=2C willing to =
set his own aesthetic aside and make "whatever would sell". His self-descr=
ibed perigee was when he found himself throwing ceramic pigs. One can stil=
l drive him to sheer embarrassment by mentioning the little kaolinic porcin=
es. Perhaps we need a 12-step program.
>> No=2C I think there's more of a difference. The art audience is much
>> younger
>> and much wealthier. I see the craft collectors as becoming elderly=2C
>> and it
>> makes me worry to some extent. I'm glad I'm not depending on them.
>>
>Maybe he is referring to very high-ticket craft work=2C like furniture.
>How many potters does this apply to? For me this statement is not true
>at all.
>
>Mea Rhee
Yes=2C there will always be a market for the hand-made=2C those who are wil=
ling to pay a slight premium for an object with a story or for the subtle d=
ifferences that few seem able to recognize. I view this much as the market=
for classical music in this age where a "musician" no longer even needs to=
know three chords. Mr.Castle merely points out that the audience for the =
craft version of classical music is likewise rapidly aging=2C and few are m=
oving in behind them to fill the void. Sure=2C the remaining market is suf=
ficient to provide many potters with a modest living=2C but how many are le=
ft to help create the next Wendell Castle?
New York "collectors" routinely spend $250=2C000=2C $500=2C000=2C or even $=
1 million on fairly generic abstract paintings by living artists. A friend=
in New York recently attended an exhibition consisting of five pieces by a=
36-year-old painter=2C each priced at $1 million=2C and all marked "sold".=
I am guessing that the serious collectors of craft could be counted on on=
e's appendages=2C and that to count the collectors of high-end craft one mi=
ght need only the appendages on their hands.
In ceramics we have those rare and treasured folks like Tom Turnquist=2C bu=
t how many Mr. Turnquists are out there? With so few serious collectors of=
craft=2C the odds of one such as he even noticing one of my (or anyone's) =
pieces amongst the clamor is close to nil. Even if a serious collector doe=
s notice one's work=2C Mr. Castle contends that the odds are that he or she=
is no longer acquiring. A case in point: I recently heard from a galleri=
st who represents my sculptural work. She told me that a member of the Gug=
genheim family stopped in=2C and was admiring one of my pieces. He fairly =
raved about the work=2C but when she suggested he add it to his collection =
the elderly gentleman replied that at 84 years of age=2C he was trying to g=
et rid of things=2C not add more. While certainly a boost to the ego=2C th=
is endorsement=2C plus $1.50=2C will get me a cup of coffee.
> She is pleasing a young person who does not
> discriminate between handmade here or
> handmade anywhere.
>
> That young person might even get a do gooder
> thrill from supporting native village 'crafts'
> in another part of the world.
>
> Chris Campbell - in North Carolina
I tend to agree with Ms. Campbell's sentiment=2C at least in the low or ver=
y low end of the craft market where most of us operate (as opposed to the h=
igh or very high end occupied by a Wendell Castle or a Brother Thomas or a =
Mr. Heino). While Mr. Castle sells $200=2C000 settees to museums=2C so is =
relatively immune=2C he laments the aging of those folks willing to shell o=
ut $15=2C000 for a dining table or credenza. Our own plight seems much wor=
se as we try to sell $40 or $100 or $300 pots.
When I visited China a dozen or so years ago=2C one of my stops was at a gr=
anite processor. Throngs of workers toiled for 10 hours per day around mas=
sive unguarded gang saws. When a member of my group inquired as to how muc=
h money the workers were paid=2C the plant manager proudly replied that the=
y were "very highly paid=2C one U.S. Dollar per day". At another stop at a=
n embroidery factory=2C we purchased a gorgeous hand-embroidered silk panel=
for a song. Row after row of women=2C from early teens through grandmothe=
rs=2C sat at little tables hand-stitching day in and day out. They were pa=
id piecework=2C if I recall correctly it was about $1 or so per large panel=
. If it is true that the modern craft buyer does not discriminate based on=
geographic origin=2C then this=2C folks=2C is what we are competing with. =
I keep a really nice vase on my desk=2C nice form=2C elegant details=2C an=
d a really lovely breaking blue-brown glaze. I bought it at a discount cha=
in store for $3=2C marked down from $6.99 retail. I refer to it as my "Wha=
t's the Point" vase.
>... but for me what is the point of being an artist and a
>designer if I am using Pottery Barn as my influence? I think we need to
>follow our instincts and develop our own ideas=2C or nothing we do will br=
ing
>us what we want. That is the satisfaction of doing our own style.
>
>The younger
>customers=2C as well as older ones want to entertain their friends and
>families and want something they can be proud of on the table. Something
>unique.
>
>Rikki Gill
I agree to an extent with Ms. Gill also=2C but herein lays the genesis of m=
y consternation over Mr. Castle's statements.
Some young friends=2C a recently married couple=2C told me that they needed=
a small table for their apartment and asked if I would make one for them=
=2C knowing that woodworking was my main creative outlet before being seduc=
ed by clay. They explained that they preferred something "home-made" over =
store-bought=2C and that they would rather the money went to someone they k=
new. Both noble sentiments=2C but at odds with reality. They were dumbfou=
nded when I explained to them that it would cost me more to purchase the re=
quired locally grown and cut raw lumber than the store charged for a finish=
ed table shipped half way around the world. A neighbor brought over a half=
dozen hand-painted tiles she brought home from China. She wanted to use t=
hem in a backsplash in her kitchen. She asked if I could make her the rest=
of the required tiles to go with her Chinese treasures=2C explaining that =
she didn't want to spend the money that would have been required to assembl=
e the entire backsplash out of Chinese tiles. She too was speechless when =
I explained to her that I would have to charge more for simple=2C undecorat=
ed field tiles than she paid for her fancy hand-painted specimens.
How much difference is there between a slip cast=2C small-scale factory pro=
duced Bill Campbell pot and a slip cast=2C large-scale factory produced Chi=
nese pot? How much between a piecework (production) art fair pot and a pie=
cework Chinese or Mexican pot? For that matter=2C how much between a Herma=
n Miller Eames Chair and the third-world knock-off? Is the fifth leg reall=
y worth the extra $3000? What do we really offer with our hand-made potter=
y other than the fifth leg?
As I said=2C much to think about.
Be well.
...James
www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
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Lee Love on sat 4 oct 08
On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 9:31 AM, James F wrote:
>really worth the extra $3000? What do we really offer with our
>hand-made pottery other than the fifth leg?
I am reading The Omnivore's Dilemma.
It is really important for us to know where our food and useful
objects come from. Without this relationship between the maker and
the user, we are all reduced to consumers.
You know, it is only since the end of WWII, that we stopped being a
society dependent on solar power and started tapping into sunlight
from the carboniferous era.
Actually, both the Arts & Crafts movement and the Mingei Movement
were about reestablishing the old relationships between the maker and
living a whole life. Mingei principles are more valid today than
they were 60 years ago. Hey, sounds like an article!
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://heartclay.blogspot.com/
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
http://claycraft.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do.
There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi
Lee on sat 4 oct 08
On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 10:50 AM, James F wrote:
> throwback who does prefer the old ways, old things, and the handmade, but
> we are few. It is, I think, important to keep in mind that while we are
> different, we are not necessarily "better" or even "right".
>
We agree on everything but this... Our modern problem, is that we, as a
culture, have an irrational belief in the superiority of our way of doing
things. But, the petroleum based society is based upon a false economy,
that obscures the real costs of production. So, the only antidote over
this "we are better" or "we are right" attitude that is at the base of our
paradigm, we have to look at other ways of doing things that are equally
valid. Our post-modern cultural relativism just keeps exploring in a
non-prejudiced manner.
That is the main point of Omnivore and also Mingei and the Arts and
Crafts movement. Folks are welcomed to discuss this in depth at:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/ClayCraft
I will also be posting things at: http://heartclay.blogspot.com/
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do.
There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi
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