mel jacobson on tue 14 oct 08
several have posted me about my stance, and seem
to agree about giving an art student their head.
deb thurman wrote of her own struggle with image and
content....and what teachers want. that is good stuff to discuss.
but, i have one thought:
at some point, the teacher does enter into the creative
process. just to challenge, to get thinking beyond.
but, i wait for the student to come to me...and say.
`mel, what do you think.` i do not impose that.
when a student wants hard critique, you know that
student is engaging the process.
it is exciting.
they can accept or reject what i have to say...and
there is no pattern of acceptance...they do
as they please. as it should be. we give them skill and
some understanding...we give them media and excitement.
we cannot do it for them.
i had a saying: `do you want hard critique and comment or
do you want praise...if it is just praise....well you waste my
time...yes, your work is lovely. now do more, get to work.`
the other comment often coming from students:
`hey, i like this form, i like what i am doing.`
i would often reply...`you do not have enough experience
to know what you like...you have to make hundreds of images
to sort that out..hell, i don't even trust myself to know
what i like with my own work.`
mel
from minnetonka:
website http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
clayart site:
http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
steve graber on tue 14 oct 08
from a different point of view, the old day job...=A0 i recall certain key =
managers i've had who would inspire creative work from using functional com=
ments during design reviews.=A0 =0A=0Aone key boss used to review my design=
s and say "that's cool, but have you thought about..."=A0 injecting another=
way to accomplish the product.=A0 as a green guy out of school, we usually=
though in one dimension.=A0 one design.=A0 one method of making parts.=A0 =
=0A=0Awhen designing new products, it's productive to think about using man=
y materials and many manufacturing methods.=A0 often the 1st idea of a prod=
uct is not the one to reach production.=A0=A0 more creative incentive comes=
=A0from attempting to make something using not just machined parts but stam=
ping, springs, castings, etc.=A0 the incentive being to try at least 3 or 4=
alternate manufacturing methods.=A0 suddenly one truly best method shows u=
p.=A0 =0A=0Aso it would be similar with clay work.=A0 "have you thought abo=
ut" is a good way to start many critiques.=A0 and if you only used one meth=
od, "have you thought about..." ....for more.=A0 =0A=0Afrom those early day=
s i try to repeat those comments in my new work.=A0 the old bosses don't ne=
ed to be around any more.=A0 "have you thought about" what he would say.=A0=
=0A=0Asee ya=0A=A0Steve Graber, Graber's Pottery, Inc=0AClaremont, Califor=
nia USA=0AThe Steve Tool - for awesum texture on pots! =0Awww.graberspotter=
y.com steve@graberspottery.com =0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFr=
om: mel jacobson =0ATo: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=0ASent:=
Tuesday, October 14, 2008 6:42:52 AM=0ASubject: teaching creativity=0A=0As=
everal have posted me about my stance, and seem=0Ato agree about giving an =
art student their head.=0A=0Adeb thurman wrote of her own struggle with ima=
ge and=0Acontent....and what teachers want.=A0 that is good stuff to discus=
s.=0A=0Abut, i have one thought:=0A=0Aat some point, the teacher does enter=
into the creative=0Aprocess.=A0 just to challenge, to get thinking beyond.=
=0Abut, i wait for the student to come to me...and say.=0A`mel, what do you=
think.`=A0 i do not impose that.=0Awhen a student wants hard critique, you=
know that=0Astudent is engaging the process.=0Ait is exciting.=0Athey can =
accept or reject what i have to say...and=0Athere is no pattern of acceptan=
ce...they do=0Aas they please.=A0 as it should be.=A0 we give them skill an=
d=0Asome understanding...we give them media and excitement.=0Awe cannot do =
it for them.=0A=0Ai had a saying:=A0 `do you want hard critique and comment=
or=0Ado you want praise...if it is just praise....well you waste my=0Atime=
...yes, your work is lovely.=A0 now do more, get to work.`=0A=0Athe other c=
omment often coming from students:=0A`hey, i like this form, i like what i =
am doing.`=0Ai would often reply...`you do not have enough experience=0Ato =
know what you like...you have to make hundreds of images=0Ato sort that out=
..hell, i don't even trust myself to know=0Awhat i like with my own work.`=
=0Amel=0Afrom minnetonka:=0Awebsite http://www.visi.com/~melpots/=0Aclayart=
site:=0Ahttp://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html=0A=0A=0A=0A
Antoinette Badenhorst on tue 14 oct 08
Mel I like your approach. I've always said that I can not be a good friend if I am not an honest friend. Same counts for teaching. The true challenge though, I think is guiding rather than forcing. That is the difference between help making or help breaking the spirit.
On that note I have to tell you what an important role you've played in my throwing on the wheel here in the USA:
In South Africa I had a little stool attached to my ( I think you would call it a stand-up) wheel. The wheel was waist height. I was at the right height, perfectly close to the wheel and never had to think about my posture( of cause I was also younger!).When I got to the USA the wheel was half the size of my SA wheel, loose stool etc. I suddenly had aches and pains all over my body. The year that you and Vince and John did the Alabama Clay conference in Tuscaloosa you explained how one should sit at a potters wheel. At the time I was already 20 years into clay, but I adjusted my position at the wheel and ever since teach students the right way. I owe that to you.
Have a fun day.
--
Antoinette Badenhorst
www.clayandcanvas.com
www.studiopottery.co.uk
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: mel jacobson
> several have posted me about my stance, and seem
> to agree about giving an art student their head.
>
> deb thurman wrote of her own struggle with image and
> content....and what teachers want. that is good stuff to discuss.
>
> but, i have one thought:
>
> at some point, the teacher does enter into the creative
> process. just to challenge, to get thinking beyond.
> but, i wait for the student to come to me...and say.
> `mel, what do you think.` i do not impose that.
> when a student wants hard critique, you know that
> student is engaging the process.
> it is exciting.
> they can accept or reject what i have to say...and
> there is no pattern of acceptance...they do
> as they please. as it should be. we give them skill and
> some understanding...we give them media and excitement.
> we cannot do it for them.
>
> i had a saying: `do you want hard critique and comment or
> do you want praise...if it is just praise....well you waste my
> time...yes, your work is lovely. now do more, get to work.`
>
> the other comment often coming from students:
> `hey, i like this form, i like what i am doing.`
> i would often reply...`you do not have enough experience
> to know what you like...you have to make hundreds of images
> to sort that out..hell, i don't even trust myself to know
> what i like with my own work.`
> mel
> from minnetonka:
> website http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
> clayart site:
> http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
Antoinette Badenhorst on tue 14 oct 08
Steve you know what is something else I discovered: people tend to be more willing to critique one's work if you are willing to do that yourself.
--
Antoinette Badenhorst
www.clayandcanvas.com
www.studiopottery.co.uk
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: steve graber
> from a different point of view, the old day job... i recall certain key
> managers i've had who would inspire creative work from using functional comments
> during design reviews.
>
> one key boss used to review my designs and say "that's cool, but have you
> thought about..." injecting another way to accomplish the product. as a green
> guy out of school, we usually though in one dimension. one design. one method
> of making parts.
>
> when designing new products, it's productive to think about using many materials
> and many manufacturing methods. often the 1st idea of a product is not the one
> to reach production. more creative incentive comes from attempting to make
> something using not just machined parts but stamping, springs, castings, etc.
> the incentive being to try at least 3 or 4 alternate manufacturing methods.
> suddenly one truly best method shows up.
>
> so it would be similar with clay work. "have you thought about" is a good way
> to start many critiques. and if you only used one method, "have you thought
> about..." ....for more.
>
> from those early days i try to repeat those comments in my new work. the old
> bosses don't need to be around any more. "have you thought about" what he would
> say.
>
> see ya
> Steve Graber, Graber's Pottery, Inc
> Claremont, California USA
> The Steve Tool - for awesum texture on pots!
> www.graberspottery.com steve@graberspottery.com
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: mel jacobson
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 6:42:52 AM
> Subject: teaching creativity
>
> several have posted me about my stance, and seem
> to agree about giving an art student their head.
>
> deb thurman wrote of her own struggle with image and
> content....and what teachers want. that is good stuff to discuss.
>
> but, i have one thought:
>
> at some point, the teacher does enter into the creative
> process. just to challenge, to get thinking beyond.
> but, i wait for the student to come to me...and say.
> `mel, what do you think.` i do not impose that.
> when a student wants hard critique, you know that
> student is engaging the process.
> it is exciting.
> they can accept or reject what i have to say...and
> there is no pattern of acceptance...they do
> as they please. as it should be. we give them skill and
> some understanding...we give them media and excitement.
> we cannot do it for them.
>
> i had a saying: `do you want hard critique and comment or
> do you want praise...if it is just praise....well you waste my
> time...yes, your work is lovely. now do more, get to work.`
>
> the other comment often coming from students:
> `hey, i like this form, i like what i am doing.`
> i would often reply...`you do not have enough experience
> to know what you like...you have to make hundreds of images
> to sort that out..hell, i don't even trust myself to know
> what i like with my own work.`
> mel
> from minnetonka:
> website http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
> clayart site:
> http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
>
>
>
>
Lee Love on tue 14 oct 08
Human beings are by nature creative. Many of our social ills can be
attributed to the stifling of creative expression. All the great
cultures fostered creativity in one way or another. Another mark of
the downfall of a civilization is when it starts eating the creative
"seed corn." Or, the making of hybrids that cannot seed themselves.
To enhance the development of creativity, you make a creative
environment and you provide challenges to enable creative growth.
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://heartclay.blogspot.com/
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
http://claycraft.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do.
There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi
John Hesselberth on tue 14 oct 08
Creativity comes in many forms and it is my belief that it can be
readily taught. The way a teacher assigns a task can stimulate or
turn off creativity. The teacher who says to his kindergarten art
class "I want you to draw a flower starting with a circle. Color it
brown. Then attach some yellow petals at the edge of the circle." has
just stopped creativity dead in its tracks. On the other hand the
teacher who says "I want you to draw the most beautiful flower you
can imagine" has stimulated creativity. Sharing the results with the
class further helps students expand their own ideas about what can
be. The best teachers integrate this kind of approach into almost
every sentence that comes out of their mouth during the course of the
day.
The best engineers are some of the most creative people I have ever
known in spite of the reputation engineers have as not being very
creative as a class of people. Why? They have to solve problems
within a very confined space. While that sometimes is simple, at
other times it seems impossible. Yet the best ones do it in a very
creative way. Again, they were usually taught to be creative by the
way their teachers assigned problems for them to solve while they
were in school. The teacher who asked them to design a pipe system to
carry water from point A to point B doesn't help. The teacher who
asked them for the best way to deliver water from point A to point B
and tells them there is no pipe available forces them to think
creatively and examine lots of other options. Again sharing the
various solutions with the whole class adds to their creative
development.
Unfortunately, some people view being weird as being creative. I
don't. I view being weird as being weird. I would rather use a
definition something like "elegant problem solving" whether that
problem be how to portray an idea or a message as an artist might do
or something more mundane like how to fix a factory machine that
isn't making the correct product.
And it is not to late to learn to be creative. While it helps to
start young, age is not limiting.
Regards,
John
John Hesselberth
www.frogpondpottery.com
"Man is a tool-using animal....without tools he is nothing, with
tools he is all" .... Thomas Carlyle
Weiland, Jeff on tue 14 oct 08
John,
I agree with most of what you stated. A couple of points I want
to make. We as humans are born with the innate desire to create that is
expressed in countless ways depending on factors such as environment,
experiences, cultural influences. Etc. There is within us all a
satisfaction and self-esteem that comes from accomplishing a creative
task no matter what media; painting, sculpture, ceramics, music,
gardening, architecture, and yes, even plumbing. I had a friend who was
a master pipefitter and welder who prided himself on the design and
construction of boiler rooms. They were a work of creative design. I
have always looked at creativity the same as muscle. We all have it to
some degree. Some are more gifted that others but it is there. The
difference comes with those who choose to exercise and train their
creative muscles. I have never considered myself gifted artistically and
am jealous when I come across those who are and waste it. I get
impatient with those who are very creative and very lazy. What a wasted
gift.=20
The never-too-late idea is so true. I had a gentleman take a
night class a couple of years ago, learned to throw, and just today, I
found out he is getting ready for his first one-man show. His creativity
level is off the charts. I think that a key factor in fostering
creativity is to know how much information/technique is needed and when
to step back to see what transpires. Get rid of the training wheels and
let them scrape their knees a bit. It hurts but they learn.
I have read research coming from job-training organizations
regarding what employers are looking for in today's employment
environment. Most business and industry can train for the technical
stuff. What is most desirable is the ability to think creatively and
independently. That is what we need to strive for as educators.
Jeff Weiland
Greenfield-Central High School
810 North Broadway
Greenfield, Indiana 46140
317-462-9211
jweiland@gcsc.k12.in.us
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of John
Hesselberth
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 11:32 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: teaching creativity
Creativity comes in many forms and it is my belief that it can be
readily taught. The way a teacher assigns a task can stimulate or
turn off creativity. The teacher who says to his kindergarten art
class "I want you to draw a flower starting with a circle. Color it
brown. Then attach some yellow petals at the edge of the circle." has
just stopped creativity dead in its tracks. On the other hand the
teacher who says "I want you to draw the most beautiful flower you
can imagine" has stimulated creativity. Sharing the results with the
class further helps students expand their own ideas about what can
be. The best teachers integrate this kind of approach into almost
every sentence that comes out of their mouth during the course of the
day.
The best engineers are some of the most creative people I have ever
known in spite of the reputation engineers have as not being very
creative as a class of people. Why? They have to solve problems
within a very confined space. While that sometimes is simple, at
other times it seems impossible. Yet the best ones do it in a very
creative way. Again, they were usually taught to be creative by the
way their teachers assigned problems for them to solve while they
were in school. The teacher who asked them to design a pipe system to
carry water from point A to point B doesn't help. The teacher who
asked them for the best way to deliver water from point A to point B
and tells them there is no pipe available forces them to think
creatively and examine lots of other options. Again sharing the
various solutions with the whole class adds to their creative
development.
Unfortunately, some people view being weird as being creative. I
don't. I view being weird as being weird. I would rather use a
definition something like "elegant problem solving" whether that
problem be how to portray an idea or a message as an artist might do
or something more mundane like how to fix a factory machine that
isn't making the correct product.
And it is not to late to learn to be creative. While it helps to
start young, age is not limiting.
Regards,
John
John Hesselberth
www.frogpondpottery.com
"Man is a tool-using animal....without tools he is nothing, with
tools he is all" .... Thomas Carlyle
Lee Love on tue 14 oct 08
There is a distinct difference between reductive problem solving and
expansive creativity. That is pretty obvious.
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://heartclay.blogspot.com/
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
http://claycraft.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do.
There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi
steve graber on tue 14 oct 08
the=A0most simple designs are the hardest.=A0 once done, they are truly sim=
ple.=A0 but the guy who 1st did it, scored a perfect 10 to me.=A0 =0A=0Aonc=
e a group of us (dumb) engineers were sitting at a table for lunch and marv=
eled at a snap fit, hinge design someone did for the salt shaker.=A0 so sim=
ple, so cool, yet the details are=A0not easy to do.=A0 but this guy did it.=
=A0 =0A=0Ai saw a fork folded into a tuna=A0fish can lunch that was a singl=
e=A0pull simple injection molded tool.=A0 =0A=0Abut it was a folded fork!=
=A0 it would unfold and snap into a normal fork to eat your lunch out of th=
e can.=A0 =0A=0Aso cool, so simple.=A0 usually not noticed by most people w=
ho see them.=A0 =0A=0Ataken for granted these other art forms are never not=
iced.=A0 =0A=0Asee ya=0A=A0Steve Graber, Graber's Pottery, Inc=0AClaremont,=
California USA=0AThe Steve Tool - for awesum texture on pots! =0Awww.grabe=
rspottery.com steve@graberspottery.com =0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message -=
---=0AFrom: John Hesselberth =0ATo: CLAYART@LSV.CE=
RAMICS.ORG=0ASent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 8:32:07 AM=0ASubject: Re: teac=
hing creativity=0A=0ACreativity comes in many forms and it is my belief tha=
t it can be=0Areadily taught. The way a teacher assigns a task can stimulat=
e or=0Aturn off creativity. The teacher who says to his kindergarten art=0A=
class "I want you to draw a flower starting with a circle. Color it=0Abrown=
. Then attach some yellow petals at the edge of the circle." has=0Ajust sto=
pped creativity dead in its tracks. On the other hand the=0Ateacher who say=
s "I want you to draw the most beautiful flower you=0Acan imagine" has stim=
ulated creativity. Sharing the results with the=0Aclass further helps stude=
nts expand their own ideas about what can=0Abe. The best teachers integrate=
this kind of approach into almost=0Aevery sentence that comes out of their=
mouth during the course of the=0Aday.=0A=0AThe best engineers are some of =
the most creative people I have ever=0Aknown in spite of the reputation eng=
ineers have as not being very=0Acreative as a class of people. Why? They ha=
ve to solve problems=0Awithin a very confined space. While that sometimes i=
s simple, at=0Aother times it seems impossible. Yet the best ones do it in =
a very=0Acreative way. Again, they were usually taught to be creative by th=
e=0Away their teachers assigned problems for them to solve while they=0Awer=
e in school. The teacher who asked them to design a pipe system to=0Acarry =
water from point A to point B doesn't help. The teacher who=0Aasked them fo=
r the best way to deliver water from=A0 point A to point B=0Aand tells them=
there is no pipe available forces them to think=0Acreatively and examine l=
ots of other options. Again sharing the=0Avarious solutions with the whole =
class adds to their creative=0Adevelopment.=0A=0AUnfortunately, some people=
view being weird as being creative. I=0Adon't. I view being weird as being=
weird. I would rather use a=0Adefinition something like "elegant problem s=
olving" whether that=0Aproblem be how to portray an idea or a message as an=
artist might do=0Aor something more mundane like how to fix a factory mach=
ine that=0Aisn't making the correct product.=0A=0AAnd it is not to late to =
learn to be creative. While it helps to=0Astart young, age is not limiting.=
=0A=0ARegards,=0A=0AJohn=0A=0A=0A=0AJohn Hesselberth=0Awww.frogpondpottery.=
com=0A=0A"Man is a tool-using animal....without tools he is nothing, with=
=0Atools he is all" ....=A0 Thomas Carlyle=0A=0A=0A=0A
John Post on tue 14 oct 08
There is a little bit more to teaching little kids than telling them
to go grab a flower and draw it, or to paint their best flower. A
class full of a kindergarten kids will be quite diverse in their
abilities. Many will come from homes where they have been taught
their letters and can write their name. Others will never have held a
pencil before. Some are making marks on the page that are
developmentally at the level of 2 or 3 year old. Others will be able
to draw basic shapes with ease.
To reach all of these learners a teacher must do more than just tell
them to create. A teacher needs to show them some of the processes
that artists use when they create things. Much of my lower elementary
curriculum is spent getting kids to see the basic shapes and forms of
objects and people. If you can show them how to work from big shapes
and forms and then proceed down to small details, they understand
where to start when they make art on their own.
One third of the class will learn by watching (visual). Another third
will learn by doing (kinesthetic). The final third learns by hearing
(auditory). Schools teach mostly to the hearing third. That's why
teachers talk so much.
I try to limit my direct teaching time to 10 minutes per class. We
may go over this if it is the start of a big unit, but a small chunk
of information is much easier for a kid to digest.
People remember the first and last thing you say to them the most.
Think of the movie Jaws. What happens at the beginning? What happens
at the end? Most people can tell you these things. Then ask about
the middle and it gets a little murky. The same goes for lectures.
By giving the kids a short to the point talk it is easier for them to
remember the key ideas.
I often give a demonstration where the kids and I are looking at
something on the tv monitor. I show them how to find the basic shapes
in what we are looking at. If I tell the kids to make a bump, bump,
bump for the fingers they often repeat what I say. They do this
without being told in grades K-2. When they get to the third grade,
they stop doing this automatically. The kids turn off one of their
modes of learning. Then as the curriculum in the rest of the school
gets more difficult, they get fewer and fewer hands-on and visual
examples. By the time they get to 6th grade they sit and have to
listen all day. No wonder many start to hate school. 2/3 of the
student population is taught using a method that they prefer the least.
Think of how ideas and culture were passed down before writing. A
powerful ceremony with lots of visual stuff happening, dance, singing,
movement, stories. The brain craves novelty. A ceremony that teaches
something will be remembered for life. Somehow schools have managed
to find a way to strip the brain of all the stuff it loves best. All
that visual, kinesthetic and auditory learning has been replaced by
one day after another of dull dittos and tests.
My job as an art teacher is to say yes all day. When I give an
assignment I tell the kids the 2-3 goals or things they must
demonstrate in the lesson and then let them go at it. When they ask
can I add this or change that on my painting or sculpture, I say yes
all day long. It empowers them. Right now I have second grade
students making watercolor paintings of beetles. They have to fill
their paper with a large beetle, and demonstrate symmetry in its
patterning. When they ask can I add extra legs, or giant eyeballs or
make heart patterns on it, I get to say yes.
This is part of a unit I am teaching about African art. We are
exploring how the ancient Egyptians looked to nature for inspiration.
The kids have made wild jackal paintings and clay jackals. Now we are
exploring the scarab dung beetle story. They love the poop part and
think it's disgusting that an animal would do that. The we discuss
where flies come from, and then they really start thinking.
There is a great book called "Orbiting the Giant Hairball" that is
about a creative artist at Hallmark and how he survives in that
corporate climate. Whenever I orbit the giant hairball that is
education, I tell myself to remember to maintain my distance and not
get sucked in too close. The book has a great chapter on how telling
people that their ideas are good actually empowers them to be more
creative. The book is written by a right brainer so it has lots of
little pictures and humor and is laid out quite nicely.
Robert Piepenberg says "creativity is caught, not taught." I think a
good art teacher can help by giving you a mitt and tossing a ball or
two your way.
John Post
Sterling Heights, Michigan
:: cone 6 glaze website :: http://www.johnpost.us
:: elementary art website :: http://www.wemakeart.org
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