Mary Driever on thu 20 nov 08
I spent a year in the four corners area and I had a real good friend that =20
was a Jemez Pueblo potter, they are close to the Idelfonso potters, her work=
was=20
red clay that she dug herself. When she finished it, without any glaze it=20=
=20
was waterproof, I don't remember at what cone that she fired but she did do=20=
=20
beautiful work using an electric kiln. When we discussed the Idelfonso and=20=
=20
the black pottery she said that manure was used to prop in a wood fired kil=
n. =20
Years later in college ceramics I learned that, that was reduction firing a=
nd=20
the reason that the fired product was ebony black. Of course then they=20
could not use paint so the designs were carved on. Now I think they use=20
occasionaly a flat black underglaze to add design to the burnished pot. I=20=
did do a=20
take off of the design in my studies and created what I call Marya pipes wh=
ich=20
are hand built about twenty inches tall with dividing necks similar to the=20
wedding vases. would be glad to send some pictures but I do need help in=20
building a website. Hope that comes soon. =20
Marya Beads&buttons
**************Check out smokin=E2=80=99 hot deals on laptops, desktops and m=
ore from=20
Dell. Shop Deals=20
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1213345834x1200842686/aol?redir=3Dh=
ttp://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;209513277;31396581;l)
Sherron & Jim Bowen on thu 20 nov 08
If you want to see a brief video about the San Ildefonzo pot making process
there is a longer video about Maria Martinez available from libraries but in
the meanwhile look here. She didn't use commercial ceramic products.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9A_IZxkxQQ
JB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mary Driever"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:36 PM
Subject: manure firing
Vince Pitelka on fri 21 nov 08
Mary Driever wrote:
"This is the Pueblo Potter that I watched for a year, This work is =
amazing=20
check it out, she did not do reduction firing like the Ildefonzo but for =
being=20
an albino and nearly blind her work is amazing I can see nothing here =
but =20
amazing talent. What an artist."
Mary -=20
I agree that Reyes Madelena's work is stunning, but there are many =
artists in several of the Pueblo cultures that specialize in this kind =
of sharp-focus, high-graphic-impact work. If you have not done so, I =
urge you to look at the best Hopi and Acoma pots, and you will see a =
similar and equally fine technique, sense of design, and use of the =
pot's surface. That's one of the things I always look for - the degree =
to which the surface design embraces and caresses the pot. It is =
certainly true in Reyes Madelena's work, but also in the work of so many =
of the great Pueblo potters. =20
And I hope you will not think this overly picky, but in Santa Clara and =
San Idelfonso blackware, there is no reduction going on, so it is not =
appropriate to call it reduction firing. It is blackware firing, and =
the black coloring is just carbon impacted into the burnished clay when =
the bonfire is smothered with crushed manure/sawdust and buried in dirt, =
sand, or ash. The carbon has no place to go but into the pores on the =
pots. It is a fascinating process. I have been doing blackware firings =
in my Ancient Clay workshop for almost twenty years, and I still get a =
thrill out of the transformation that takes place. =20
Best wishes -=20
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Mary Driever on fri 21 nov 08
This is the Pueblo Potter that I watched for a year, This work is amazing=20
check it out, she did not do reduction firing like the Ildefonzo but for be=
ing=20
an albino and nearly blind her work is amazing I can see nothing here but =20
amazing talent. What an artist.
=20
_Moab Happenings Archive_=20
(http://www.moabhappenings.com/Archives/artist0605ReyesMadalena.htm) =20
=20
=20
=20
In a message dated 11/20/2008 8:11:21 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, =20
jbowen43@PRAIRIENETWORKS.COM writes:
If you want to see a brief video about the San Ildefonzo pot making process
there is a longer video about Maria Martinez available from libraries but i=
n
the meanwhile look here. She didn't use commercial ceramic products.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Do9A_IZxkxQQ
JB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mary Driever"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:36 PM
Subject: manure firing
**************Check out smokin=E2=80=99 hot deals on laptops, desktops and m=
ore from=20
Dell. Shop Deals=20
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1213345834x1200842686/aol?redir=3Dh=
ttp://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;209513277;31396581;l)
Snail Scott on fri 21 nov 08
I do a low-tech firing with my college classes every semester.
We don't have the capacity to do raku, which is the usual
standby for filling that 'waiting for stuff to get fired' interval
at the end of the term.
I learned to fire with cowpies while I lived in New Mexico.
I have tried to do that in the Midwest where I live now, but
the obstacles are not the ones I expected! There is no
shortage of cattle in the rural area where I live, so finding
a source is no problem, though explaining 'why' to the
farmer is sometimes more difficult. I thought that getting
them gathered after waiting for a sufficient dry spell would
be tricky, but really, it doesn't rain all the time here; it just
seems that way, and I can spread them out to dry the rest
of the way in front of a fan. No, the real obstacle here is
grass! (I'm still getting used to the fact that grass grows
wild here.) The grass acts like Velcro to hold the cowpie
to the ground. Any pasture with enough cattle to keep the
grass down has so many that the cowpies are all trampled
into fragments, and any pastures with intact cowpies have
thick, lush grass all year. If a cowpie stays in place long
enough, the grass dies underneath and makee it easier to
pull loose, but it's bound to rain before that happens,
turning the patties into squishies.
So, we mostly fire with scrap wood now. No shortage of trees
around here - not only aren't they precious, but are widely seen
an an annoyance (like really huge weeds needing control).
When people in my area cut down a tree, they usually burn it on
the spot - not worth the effort of cutting it for firewood or anything
else. Since part of the point of doing a low-tech firing is to show
students a more connected process without the 'magic box' that
transforms everything while they aren't looking, it only makes
sense to use locally available, cheap and easy materials.
Southwest:
Cowpies - cheap and easy. Wood - easy but expensive.
Midwest:
Cowpies - cheap but difficult. Wood - cheap and easy.
I still gather a trashbag of cowpies every semester, just to
demonstrate and get the students past the 'oh, gross!'
reaction (education should be broadening), but most of
the firing heat comes from wood.
-Snail
Steve Slatin on fri 21 nov 08
Alwys gd 2 no U R expsng
stdnts 2 real bs in thr
srch 4 ba.
Steve S
--- On Fri, 11/21/08, Snail Scott wrote:
> I do a low-tech firing with my college classes every
> semester.
> We don't have the capacity to do raku, which is the
> usual
> standby for filling that 'waiting for stuff to get
> fired' interval
> at the end of the term.
Vince Pitelka on sat 22 nov 08
Mary Driever wrote:
"Thank you for the correction, but, what would be the difference =
between the=20
blackware process and raku?? both are processed after the firing to =
change=20
the color, in the case of raku the areas without glaze. or little =
glaze. I=20
used the article on Reyes just because we are personal friends and I =
saw what=20
she did first hand. After living in the four corners and my travels I =
know=20
there are many similar artists. I know I hand build, but I just do not =
try=20
to or copy any of her work."
Hi Mary -=20
The "American raku" process generally does not achieve the intensity of =
black coloring that a blackware firing gives. As a matter of =
authenticity, the blackware process is appropriate for certain types of =
work, but can also be adapted to any situation where the potter is =
seeking that sort of surface finish. No culture has proprietary rights =
to the blackware process. You can find blackware in ancient Chinese =
Neolithic and early dynastic pottery, and in Etruscan Bucchero ware, in =
Egyptian pre-dynastic pottery, in Pre-Columbian Peruvian Chavin and =
Chimu wares, in pre-Classical Mesoamerican pottery, and in some African =
tribal ware. It didn't appear in Southwestern Native American pots =
until the 20th century. =20
It is true that the distinctions in firing processes and effects get =
rather fuzzy these days. For example, aluminum-foil sagger firing can =
give a very intense black just like a blackware firing, with a whole lot =
less trouble, especially if you are firing just a few pieces. In my =
Ancient Clay workshops I do blackware for the experience. It is an =
exciting process. In my Ancient Clay workshop I show images of ancient =
and tribal work from all over the world as an exploration of what has =
been done, but the important thing is to absorb technique and aesthetic =
and then synthesize something original. It sounds like you are doing =
that. =20
In referring to the sharp-focus and complex linear design in Acoma and =
Hopi pots, I should have also mentioned Mata Ortiz. The ongoing =
tradition there stresses a similar design aesthetic, and there are so =
many fine potters in that lineage.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Mary Driever on sat 22 nov 08
Thank you for the correction, but, what would be the difference between th=
e=20
blackware process and raku?? both are processed after the firing to change=
=20
the color, in the case of raku the areas without glaze. or little glaze. =20=
I=20
used the article on Reyes just because we are personal friends and I saw wh=
at=20
she did first hand. After living in the four corners and my travels I know=
=20
there are many similar artists. I know I hand build, but I just do not try=
=20
to or copy any of her work.
=20
=20
In a message dated 11/22/2008 8:48:26 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, =20
vpitelka@DTCCOM.NET writes:
Mary Driever wrote:
"This is the Pueblo Potter that I watched for a year, This work is amazin=
g=20
check it out, she did not do reduction firing like the Ildefonzo but for =20
being=20
an albino and nearly blind her work is amazing I can see nothing here but =20
amazing talent. What an artist."
Mary -=20
I agree that Reyes Madelena's work is stunning, but there are many artists=20
in several of the Pueblo cultures that specialize in this kind of sharp-foc=
us,=20
high-graphic-impact work. If you have not done so, I urge you to look at=20
the best Hopi and Acoma pots, and you will see a similar and equally fine=20
technique, sense of design, and use of the pot's surface. That's one of th=
e=20
things I always look for - the degree to which the surface design embraces=20=
and=20
caresses the pot. It is certainly true in Reyes Madelena's work, but also=20=
in=20
the work of so many of the great Pueblo potters. =20
And I hope you will not think this overly picky, but in Santa Clara and San=
=20
Idelfonso blackware, there is no reduction going on, so it is not appropria=
te=20
to call it reduction firing. It is blackware firing, and the black colorin=
g=20
is just carbon impacted into the burnished clay when the bonfire is=20
smothered with crushed manure/sawdust and buried in dirt, sand, or ash. Th=
e carbon=20
has no place to go but into the pores on the pots. It is a fascinating=20
process. I have been doing blackware firings in my Ancient Clay workshop f=
or=20
almost twenty years, and I still get a thrill out of the transformation tha=
t takes=20
place. =20
Best wishes -=20
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
**************Check out smokin=E2=80=99 hot deals on laptops, desktops and m=
ore from=20
Dell. Shop Deals=20
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1213345834x1200842686/aol?redir=3Dh=
ttp://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;209513277;31396581;l)
Snail Scott on sun 23 nov 08
On Nov 22, 2008, at 1:00 PM, Mary Driever wrote:
> ...what would be the difference between the
> blackware process and raku?? both are processed after the firing to
> change
> the color, in the case of raku the areas without glaze...
The essence of raku is the removal of the work from the
kiln while it is red-hot. The post-firing reduction (if glazed
or carbonization (if bare) is optional in terms of the
definition.
Blackware is fired the same as non-blackware - a nice
steady firing to a low temperature, then smothered to
retain the smoke (to make blackware) or opened to
the flow of oxygen (for polychrome or whiteware). It
is not pulled while hot - no need to. Unlike raku, it
is NOT 'processed after the firing', but turns black as
a result of the firing method itself.
You can get a similar effect from both processes, but
raku can put a huge stress on the work, and requires
a quite open body for best success. It is usually fired
hotter (to glaze-maturation temps) and if it doesn't
develop stress cracks, will therefore tend to be more
durable. Since blackware is not subjected to the extremes
of temperature change like raku is, it can be made with
finer clay which burnishes better and allows for more
precise and delicate carving. Since it is fired to a lower
temperature than typical raku, it will retain higher gloss
from burnishing, and also achieve a blacker black.
All of the distinctions above are very broad
generalizations, and are certainly not true in all
circumstances. One could, for instance fire the work in a
slower-than-usual 'raku' firing to allow for finer clay, and
fire it cooler to avoid the early stages of vitrification which
dull the burnish and prevent good carbon penetration.
You would have to yank it very quickly to get that cooler
work into the pit while it is still hot enough to turn black.
It's not a big difference, really - raku is often fired to
anywhere between ^012 and ^06. To preserve burnish,
you just need to keep below about ^010. And of course,
burnishing isn't required. It's merely one of the appealing
options available with this type of firing.
If you are set up for raku already, try modifying your method
for blackware. If you are not, then why not keep it simple,
and do it with an old-fashioned bonfire or similar low-tech
approach? You can also get excellent blackware by firing
inside any kiln, with the work enclosed in a saggar of
combustibles. I've even used a household woodstove.
Doing it the traditional way is interesting, and even practical
if you live in an area where it makes sense, but it's not
mandatory, or even essential to achieving the effect.
It's good to know what the standard terminology is when
conversing with others, but in practice, all these techniques
can have myriad variations, blurring the boundaries. If you
understand how and why processes work, then you can
decide how best to adapt them to your own circumstances.
-Snail
steve graber on sun 23 nov 08
along the lines of blackware firing, i read and tried via ceramics monthly =
about 1995 of firing with graphite wiped bisqueware.=A0 i got very good res=
ults, and being lazy and living in a city area i didn't spend a lot of time=
, didn't used dried cow sh!t because there are no cows around here...=A0=A0=
i also didn't=A0get arrested.=A0 =0A=0Ai got some graphite, mixed it with s=
alad=A0oil.=A0 coated my bisqueware pieces, loaded them into metal cans sur=
rounded with saw dust.=A0 i fired them in my kiln until "can red".=A0 let e=
verything cool and empty the pieces after a number of hours.=0A=0Athe graph=
ite chemically makes further carbon generated to convert to that special fo=
rm of carbon:=A0 graphite.=A0 (from what some friend science guy says).=A0 =
=0A=0Ai got graphite from a plastic injection molding company i knew.=A0 th=
ey use graphite to get black plastic parts.=A0 it's extremely cheap.=A0 i t=
hink i got a life time supply, with a large ziploc bag ful.=A0 perhaps 2 po=
unds?=A0 =0A=0Ai mixed about 2 teaspoons to a mayonase jar of salad oil.=A0=
and brushed onto the bisque.=A0 it didn't stick to the brush well so i als=
o used a rag to wipe it on.=A0 =0A=0Athis was an easy saturday morning thin=
g including a trip to walmart to buy some=A0saw dust "pet bedding" material=
.=A0 =0A=0Aof course with a textured pot this makes easy low budget Indian =
Pottery....=A0 =0A=A0Steve Graber, Graber's Pottery, Inc=0AClaremont, Calif=
ornia USA=0AThe Steve Tool - for awesum texture on pots! =0Awww.graberspott=
ery.com steve@graberspottery.com =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A___________________________=
_____=0AFrom: Vince Pitelka =0ATo: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMIC=
S.ORG=0ASent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 5:09:03 PM=0ASubject: Re: manure =
firing=0A=0AMary Driever wrote:=0A"Thank you for the correction,=A0 but, wh=
at would be the difference=A0 between the =0Ablackware process and raku??=
=A0 both are processed after the=A0 firing to change =0Athe color, in the c=
ase of raku the areas without glaze.=A0 or little glaze.=A0 I =0Aused the a=
rticle on Reyes just because we are personal=A0 friends and I saw what =0As=
he did first hand.=A0 After living in the four=A0 corners and my travels I =
know =0Athere are many similar artists.=A0 I know I=A0 hand build, but I ju=
st do not try =0Ato or copy any of her work."=0A=0AHi Mary - =0AThe "Americ=
an raku" process generally does not achieve the intensity of black coloring=
that a blackware firing gives.=A0 As a matter of authenticity, the blackwa=
re process is appropriate for certain types of work, but can also be adapte=
d to any situation where the potter is seeking that sort of surface finish.=
=A0 No culture has proprietary rights to the blackware process. You can fin=
d blackware in ancient Chinese Neolithic and early dynastic pottery, and in=
Etruscan Bucchero ware, in Egyptian pre-dynastic pottery, in Pre-Columbian=
Peruvian Chavin and Chimu wares, in pre-Classical Mesoamerican pottery, an=
d in some African tribal ware.=A0 It didn't appear in Southwestern Native A=
merican pots until the 20th century.=A0 =0A=0AIt is true that the distincti=
ons in firing processes and effects get rather fuzzy these days.=A0 For exa=
mple, aluminum-foil sagger firing can give a very intense black just like a=
blackware firing, with a whole lot less trouble, especially if you are fir=
ing just a few pieces.=A0 In my Ancient Clay workshops I do blackware for t=
he experience.=A0 It is an exciting process.=A0 In my Ancient Clay workshop=
I show images of ancient and tribal work from all over the world as an exp=
loration of what has been done, but the important thing is to absorb techni=
que and aesthetic and then synthesize something original.=A0 It sounds like=
you are doing that.=A0 =0A=0AIn referring to the sharp-focus and complex l=
inear design in Acoma and Hopi pots, I should have also mentioned Mata Orti=
z.=A0 The ongoing tradition there stresses a similar design aesthetic, and =
there are so many fine potters in that lineage.=0A- Vince=0A=0AVince Pitelk=
a=0AAppalachian Center for Craft=0ATennessee Tech University=0Avpitelka@dtc=
com.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu=0Ahttp://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka=0A=0A=0A=0A =
Warren Heintz on sun 23 nov 08
Sounds like an interesting process. However you might want to look into the=
hazzards of graphite dust. If I remember correctly the particales can be s=
mall enough to pass throung the skin easily. In fact I used graphite dust t=
o blacken a wooden sculpture piece,sealed then with spray fixative,worked g=
reat. However I had a small nick on my thumb that some of the graphite must=
have gotten into and the thumb became seriously infected swelling and had =
to be lanced.. I should have been using gloves.
Warren Heintz
--- On Sun, 11/23/08, steve graber wrote:
From: steve graber
Subject: Re: manure firing
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 12:23 PM
along the lines of blackware firing, i read and tried via ceramics monthly =
about
1995 of firing with graphite wiped bisqueware.=A0 i got very good results, =
and
being lazy and living in a city area i didn't spend a lot of time,
didn't used dried cow sh!t because there are no cows around here...=A0=A0i
also didn't=A0get arrested.=A0=20
i got some graphite, mixed it with salad=A0oil.=A0 coated my bisqueware pie=
ces,
loaded them into metal cans surrounded with saw dust.=A0 i fired them in my=
kiln
until "can red".=A0 let everything cool and empty the pieces after a
number of hours.
the graphite chemically makes further carbon generated to convert to that
special form of carbon:=A0 graphite.=A0 (from what some friend science guy
says).=A0=20
i got graphite from a plastic injection molding company i knew.=A0 they use
graphite to get black plastic parts.=A0 it's extremely cheap.=A0 i think i =
got
a life time supply, with a large ziploc bag ful.=A0 perhaps 2 pounds?=A0=20
i mixed about 2 teaspoons to a mayonase jar of salad oil.=A0 and brushed on=
to
the bisque.=A0 it didn't stick to the brush well so i also used a rag to wi=
pe
it on.=A0=20
this was an easy saturday morning thing including a trip to walmart to buy
some=A0saw dust "pet bedding" material.=A0=20
of course with a textured pot this makes easy low budget Indian Pottery....=
=A0=20
=A0Steve Graber, Graber's Pottery, Inc
Claremont, California USA
The Steve Tool - for awesum texture on pots!=20
www.graberspottery.com steve@graberspottery.com=20
________________________________
From: Vince Pitelka
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 5:09:03 PM
Subject: Re: manure firing
Mary Driever wrote:
"Thank you for the correction,=A0 but, what would be the difference=A0
between the=20
blackware process and raku??=A0 both are processed after the=A0 firing to c=
hange=20
the color, in the case of raku the areas without glaze.=A0 or little glaze.=
=A0 I=20
used the article on Reyes just because we are personal=A0 friends and I saw=
what
she did first hand.=A0 After living in the four=A0 corners and my travels I=
know=20
there are many similar artists.=A0 I know I=A0 hand build, but I just do no=
t try=20
to or copy any of her work."
Hi Mary -=20
The "American raku" process generally does not achieve the intensity
of black coloring that a blackware firing gives.=A0 As a matter of authenti=
city,
the blackware process is appropriate for certain types of work, but can als=
o be
adapted to any situation where the potter is seeking that sort of surface
finish.=A0 No culture has proprietary rights to the blackware process. You =
can
find blackware in ancient Chinese Neolithic and early dynastic pottery, and=
in
Etruscan Bucchero ware, in Egyptian pre-dynastic pottery, in Pre-Columbian
Peruvian Chavin and Chimu wares, in pre-Classical Mesoamerican pottery, and=
in
some African tribal ware.=A0 It didn't appear in Southwestern Native Americ=
an
pots until the 20th century.=A0=20
It is true that the distinctions in firing processes and effects get rather
fuzzy these days.=A0 For example, aluminum-foil sagger firing can give a ve=
ry
intense black just like a blackware firing, with a whole lot less trouble,
especially if you are firing just a few pieces.=A0 In my Ancient Clay works=
hops I
do blackware for the experience.=A0 It is an exciting process.=A0 In my Anc=
ient
Clay workshop I show images of ancient and tribal work from all over the wo=
rld
as an exploration of what has been done, but the important thing is to abso=
rb
technique and aesthetic and then synthesize something original.=A0 It sound=
s like
you are doing that.=A0=20
In referring to the sharp-focus and complex linear design in Acoma and Hopi
pots, I should have also mentioned Mata Ortiz.=A0 The ongoing tradition the=
re
stresses a similar design aesthetic, and there are so many fine potters in =
that
lineage.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
=0A=0A=0A
| |
|
