Alice Simpson on fri 28 nov 08
Hi,
Have just completed a series of sculptures which I only partially
glazed and wondered if any learned folk could suggest how to treat
the unglazed portion to keep it clean-- for all eternity.
Spray? Wax? Soap and Water? Other?
Cheers,
Alice
ALICE SIMPSON
CLAY & BOOKS
NEW! www.alicesimpson.com
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
www.ceramicstoday.com/articles/abundant_beauty.htm
Cathi Newlin on fri 28 nov 08
In my sculpture class, after applying a patina (usually one or more acryllic
paint washes), we buffed the piece with MinWax.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alice Simpson"
To:
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 8:45 AM
Subject: Unglazed Stoneware Question
> Hi,
>
> Have just completed a series of sculptures which I only partially
> glazed and wondered if any learned folk could suggest how to treat
> the unglazed portion to keep it clean-- for all eternity.
>
> Spray? Wax? Soap and Water? Other?
>
>
>
>
> Cheers,
> Alice
> ALICE SIMPSON
> CLAY & BOOKS
> NEW! www.alicesimpson.com
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> www.ceramicstoday.com/articles/abundant_beauty.htm
>
Snail Scott on fri 28 nov 08
On Nov 28, 2008, at 10:45 AM, Alice Simpson wrote:
> Have just completed a series of sculptures which I only partially
> glazed and wondered if any learned folk could suggest how to treat
> the unglazed portion to keep it clean-- for all eternity...
Wax needs to be renewed regularly, and can cause dirt
to stick as it softens in the sun. It won't keep it clean; rather
the opposite. Most other coatings (lacquer, shellac,
Thompson's Waterseal, polyurethane, acrylics, etc.) also
need regular re-application and can build up over time.
You can remove the coatings by refiring, but do you really
want to have to?
For my unglazed stoneware, I just let it be. I have work
that's been outside for 20 years, and it looks fine. If it
lived in a damper climate, I expect it would eventually
grow moss or lichen or some such, but I doubt you
could prevent that. Easier to remove it at need. So far,
nothing I've brought with me to the Midwest has had
visible ill effects from sitting out with no protectant.
If I wanted it pristine and white, it might not look so good,
but I generally use off-white to brown clays. If pristine and
white were my intention, I think I'd use a fine-grained
engobe as my surface, to reduce the micro-crevices that
catch dirt on a coarse clay surface. I dislike 'permanent'
post-fired coatings, though. Most will not weather over time
as well as the clay itself will.
I have used Water Warden on outdoor earthenware and
been quite pleased with the results so far, but I don't think it
will keep the work cleaner, just less water-affected, and
that's less relevant with vitrified stoneware.
I think it's fine to regard unglazed stoneware as something
akin to stone. Leave it out, and if it gets grubby, wash with
plain water. A little bleach if it's becoming green, maybe,
but don't sweat it. And don't coat it.
-Snail
Ivor and Olive Lewis on sat 29 nov 08
Dear Alice Simpson ,
Consult a museum conservator.
What you are asking might be almost impossible. But I consider the use
of a hermetically sealed glass chamber might be the way to go if they
are relatively small items.
If it is fully vitrified stoneware it may just be a case of dusting
periodically. I have a small collection of Chinese stoneware figures.
They get brushed outdoors once a month
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
South Australia.
Vince Pitelka on sat 29 nov 08
Alice Simpson wrote:
"Have just completed a series of sculptures which I only partially
glazed and wondered if any learned folk could suggest how to treat
the unglazed portion to keep it clean-- for all eternity.
Spray? Wax? Soap and Water? Other?"
Alice -
Please do not coat it with anything, regardless of what anyone else might
suggest. Coating it with something will change the appearance, and after
having fired it the way you want to, that would be a disappointment. You
can wash it with soap and water any time you want to, with no negative
effect on the piece.
With almost any sort of ceramics, the assumption is that whatever has been
done to determine the final appearance of the piece has survived the test of
the firing. This is certainly the expectation on all functional ware, aside
from bamboo handles or other accepted mixed-media additions. Of course on
sculpture it is perfectly permissible to use post-firing effects, or to use
a fired form as a shaped canvas and paint it with oils or acrylics. But if
you are seriously engaged in ceramics, the challenge is to accomplish your
goals without having to resort to any post-firing effects - to accomplish
whatever visual appearance you seek by using clay, slips, underglazes,
patinas, and glazes, with the firing process as the final variable that
completes the appearance and locks everything in place. I have to admit to
being a bit disappointed when I see a ceramic sculpture where the artist has
resorted to "cold finishes" when I know that the same thing could have been
accomplished with ceramic materials that survive the firing.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Lee Love on sat 29 nov 08
On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Alice Simpson wrote:
> Cathi,
>
> Thanks for responding. I know what MinWax is but please,
> would you give me more information about 'acrylic paint wash.'
> Is that color or clear product?
>
> Mike Gordon has also recommended a hair dryer followed by
> Johnson paste floor wax with Carnuba and a good buffing.
I agree with Vince, painting is unnecessary. It might make it
ungly actually. I suppose you could always fire it off.
If you wax it you will have plenty of problems. Folks usually
only wax smooth surface.
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://togeika.multiply.com/journal
"Myth is cultural DNA, the software, the unconscious information, the
program that governs the way we see 'reality.'" --Sam Keen
"People that deny their myth and think they only act 'rationally',
are simply living an unconscious life." -- Clay Mudman
Caleb smith on sat 29 nov 08
Hi Alice=2C
An long list of sealers can be used on ceramic. Oil=2C wax=2C epoxy=2C u=
rethane=2C varnish=2C winter jacket waterproofer=2C acrylic medium=2C shoe =
polish and shortening are just a few ideas. The real question is one of vi=
trification. Is the piece vitrified? If so it's already sealed. If it's =
not=2C then you have to start asking yourself what will each individual col=
d sealer do to the appearance and final texture of the piece. =20
Best of luck=2C
Caleb
_________________________________________________________________
Proud to be a PC? Show the world. Download the =93I=92m a PC=94 Messenger t=
hemepack now.
hthttp://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119642558/direct/01/=
Alice Simpson on sat 29 nov 08
Cathi,
Thanks for responding. I know what MinWax is but please,
would you give me more information about 'acrylic paint wash.'
Is that color or clear product?
Mike Gordon has also recommended a hair dryer followed by
Johnson paste floor wax with Carnuba and a good buffing.
***
From: Cathi Newlin
In my sculpture class, after applying a patina (usually one or
more acrylic paint washes), we buffed the piece with MinWax.
***
From: Alice Simpson
Have just completed a series of sculptures which I only partially
glazed and wondered if any learned folk could suggest how to
treat the unglazed portion to keep it clean-- for all eternity.
Spray? Wax? Soap and Water? Other?
Cheers,
Alice
ALICE SIMPSON
CLAY & BOOKS
NEW! www.alicesimpson.com
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
www.ceramicstoday.com/articles/abundant_beauty.htm
Neon-Cat on sat 29 nov 08
Vince wrote:
=93But if you are seriously engaged in ceramics, the challenge is to accomp=
lish your goals without having to resort to any post-firing effects - to ac=
complish whatever visual appearance you seek by using clay, slips, undergla=
zes, patinas, and glazes, with the firing process as the final variable tha=
t completes the appearance and locks everything in place.=A0 I have to admi=
t to being a bit disappointed when I see a ceramic sculpture where the arti=
st has resorted to "cold finishes" when I know that the same thing could ha=
ve been accomplished with ceramic materials that survive the firing.=94
=A0
Hi Vince,
=A0
Most cold finish techniques I=92ve seen, however nicely done, are like nail=
s on a chalkboard to me -- acrylic paints and sprays and things. However, I=
do have a fondness for carnauba wax as a cold finish and just completed a =
work with 10 coats of carnauba wax. Some months ago I finished a couple of =
terra cotta pieces with carnauba wax and liked the results. Granted, they a=
re smooth and glossy and similar results could have perhaps been achieved w=
ith them using fired ceramic materials (e.g., a clear glaze). There is a su=
btle difference though that I enjoy about the terra cottas so I looked at o=
ptical properties of waxes and glazes this morning to help explain the wax =
appeal. That approach was not much help except to learn that carnauba wax d=
oes allow more UV light to pass and be transmitted than ceramic glaze so th=
ere will be some enhancement of visual effects - maybe. With wax the gloss =
is slightly more subtle than glaze, a soft translucent sheen with
warmth.
=A0
The recently waxed work perhaps provides a better example of why wax might =
=93work=94 on a piece where traditional ceramic fired-finished may not and =
touches upon a facet of our ceramic art that has had me curious. Are we jus=
t visual artists? For me, I love the feel of ceramics, from raw clay to fin=
ished works. When in school I use to query others about whether or not it w=
as permissible to touch works on display =96 some I was really drawn to, wa=
nting to feel their surfaces. In general, the answer was =93no=94. For me, =
I want people to touch a work and most do if I have it out and company come=
s or I take work somewhere. People like to feel the sculptures and I am hap=
py for them to do so. I should add that up until now all work was fired in =
communal school studio environments so none were very delicate being built =
to last rough treatment. Now free to pursue more delicate work if desired, =
I=92d still always want to make a few durable pieces that people can
fully enjoy.=20
=A0
Anyway, with an open mind and well aware that you and others have vast amou=
nts of experience compared to my year and a few months working in clay, I=
=92m going to describe my latest work and let you tell me, if you would ple=
ase, how the qualities I like and have been able to identified and describe=
might be achieved in fired ceramic materials, any kind of clay, any kind o=
f final fired surface treatment.=20
=A0
Visually the work is rather plain =96 one of my tall cats from the =93Senti=
nel=94 series, forms with meaning to me but with their primary purpose bein=
g vehicles for surface and clay experiments. I raise Devon Rex cats and kit=
tens so my clients love these crazy kitty forms and seem to like the fact t=
hat the works actually resemble something familiar to them. The work was ma=
de of various stoneware clay bodies or dyed stoneware and stands 17 inches =
tall. As part of my iron experiments his bisque and cone 10 reduction color=
is a mix of tan and brown hues. At the last minute I removed his clear gla=
ze before final firing (a Cornwall stone/whiting composition) because some =
vessels made and fired with the clear on this mixed clay body turned a love=
ly maroon color with glaze tending to draw up on itself. I wanted to keep t=
he mottle tan-brown look of this kitty and skip the glaze crawling. Out of =
the fire his texture was extremely and unpleasantly rough =96 worse
than coarse 60 grit sandpaper or broken firebrick, very abrasive, almost l=
ike the surface wanted to hurt and cut. That would never do. Yet I wanted a=
little more for this kitty than a pretty smooth glaze look. Fired with a s=
uitable glaze I could have made him smooth and nice, blending away the roug=
hness in the heat of the kiln. However, kitty is a representation of a molt=
ed Devon youth. Real molted kittens feel like soft suede when young and nak=
ed; once their fur begins to grow out there is a week or so of a slightly p=
rickly feel to them.=20
=A0
So, I waxed the kitty form and I love it.=A0 Visually, from a distance it l=
ooks like bronze, mottled colors blended. Up close the colors and texture l=
ook like wood grain. Other than to say that I like the wax because it is =
=93groovy=94 I set about trying to be able to tell you why I like the wax t=
reatment. The closest I can get to describing the feel of the work is to re=
flect back on some of the beloveds of my past -- the feel of a day=92s wort=
h of beard stubble as a finger is traced down the beloved=92s face against =
the facial hair grain. Or the feel of running a hand gently up a non-freshl=
y shaved thigh from knee on up. Like that. The wax has a natural drag that =
mimics the slight resistance of skin as opposed to quick-sliding glossy gla=
ze. A very nice hint of the real. The wax also hints at a not-so-hard as gl=
aze surface, a surface with the illusion of a little give. Kitty is also a =
close approximation to one of his real molted kitty models just
regrowing coat (fur) after a molt. The carnauba wax filled in the surface =
pores and roughness just enough to leave the right amount of non-dangerous =
=93stubble=94. Tactilely, this form has something I like now and for what i=
t is, the visual finish isn=92t bad. Should I make a human form I could exp=
loit this technique with some satisfaction.
=A0
If what I have described is possible using a fired on ceramic technique I=
=92d like to learn about it. And someone do please address the question as =
to whether, as potters and ceramic artists, we are a hands-off visual mediu=
m only, or what.=20
=A0
Marian
Neon-Cat Ceramics
neoncat@flash.net
Steve Slatin on sun 30 nov 08
Snail --
You may be right -- I have no interest in cold
surfaces for my own work, but I saw some Beverly
Saito work last year that was mixed glaze and
cold finish and it was absolutely great.
But B. Saito is an excellent artist, and meticulous
about her detail work, and if she did her work in
concrete and then painted the surfaces it'd probably
still be first rate.
Steve S
--- On Sun, 11/30/08, Snail Scott wrote:
>
>
> I think that what puts many people's hackles up about
> post-
> fired finishes is that they are so often used to simulate
> ceramic
> surfaces, and as such, inevitably fall short. They neither
> improve upon the fired options, nor replace them with a new
> paradigm. The post-fired finishes which do succeed are
> those
> which fulfill the potential of than other surface. Just as
> a lousy
> glaze job will ruin an otherwise promising object, a
> mediocre
> paint job will diminish it as well. We don't blame the
> nature
> of glaze for a bad outcome, but rather the execution.
> Likewise,
> many painted ceramics are simply painted badly, by people
> who have not mastered paint's potential or its
> appropriate
> uses. Paint is NOT easier than glaze, and anyone who uses
> it with that assumption is doomed to a poor outcome.
>
Vince Pitelka on sun 30 nov 08
Alice Simpson wrote:
"Mike Gordon has also recommended a hair dryer followed by
Johnson paste floor wax with Carnuba and a good buffing."
Alice -
I hope you won't mind if I just play devil's advocate here and ask why you
would want to do this. If you wanted something more on those areas, why did
you leave them unglazed? Are you dissatisfied with the unglazed areas? If
so, then of course follow whichever advice seems most appropriate. I am
just curious why you did not do something more to those areas before firing.
It can be a significant challenge to achieve the surface effects we want
entirely with fired materials, but it is a challenge that faces everyone who
sets out to make things with fired clay. It is so very rewarding when we do
get the surface effects we want (or better than we expected) when the piece
comes out of the glaze firing.
If you will describe the kind of surfaces you want to achieve, I am sure
that the Clayart membership will give you plenty of suggestions on how to
accomplish that in future firings, so you will not have to resort to cold
finishes.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Snail Scott on sun 30 nov 08
On Nov 29, 2008, at 4:47 PM, Neon-Cat wrote:
> Most cold finish techniques I=92ve seen, however nicely done, are like=20=
> nails on a chalkboard to me -- acrylic paints and sprays and things.=20=
> However, I do have a fondness for carnauba wax as a cold finish...
I think that what puts many people's hackles up about post-
fired finishes is that they are so often used to simulate ceramic
surfaces, and as such, inevitably fall short. They neither
improve upon the fired options, nor replace them with a new
paradigm. The post-fired finishes which do succeed are those
which fulfill the potential of than other surface. Just as a lousy
glaze job will ruin an otherwise promising object, a mediocre
paint job will diminish it as well. We don't blame the nature
of glaze for a bad outcome, but rather the execution. Likewise,
many painted ceramics are simply painted badly, by people
who have not mastered paint's potential or its appropriate
uses. Paint is NOT easier than glaze, and anyone who uses
it with that assumption is doomed to a poor outcome.
Wax is more widely seen as a successful post-fired surface
than paint, I think for several reasons. One is that it seldom
looks like a fired surface; it looks like wax: its own thing. A
second factor is the often-observed 'fleshy' quality that wax
can lend to clay, which can be quite pleasing in figural work.
Third, it does not obscure the clay so much as it augments
it, subtly modifying the still-visible clay surface. Fourth, it's
hard to get it really wrong. While wax has a variety of possible
options, most will look fine, even in inexperienced hands.
I dislike glaze for most of my own work, and I generally get
the color and sheen I want by using engobes. Not everything
is best achieved through fired options, though. Sometimes,
a post-fired surface is just right. This may mean paint, or wax,
or almost anything else. As I see it, if the best expression of
your idea means covering the clay with roofing tar, chewing
gum, and bits of mulch, then you'd better go do it. Fired
surfaces can do a lot, but sometimes the surface just needs
to be something else.
At the core of all this is the range of attitudes toward the
identity of the clay. Not a dichotomy - such oppositional
thinking causes more stupid arguments than almost
anything - but a continuum, or an array of possibilities.
For some people, the identity of clay means it's all about the
processes that are essential and/or intrinsic to ceramics,
and to step outside the realm of ceramic processes is either
evidence of technical deficiency, or something approaching
a betrayal of the faith. The technically demanding nature of
ceramics lends support to the first contention, which is often
true but not always. The historically insular nature of the craft
contributes to the latter, augmented by a desire to preserve
a sense of identity (at best) and a sense of defensiveness
against its potential loss. The allegiance to pure ceramic
processes has pragmatic justification, too: no material is as
archival and permanent, weatherproof, durable, and yet
versatile in its expression.
For others, the identity of clay is more rooted in metaphor, or
even in metaphysics. The fact that the work is made of clay is
critical to its meaning, and the presence of that material is
manifested in the way it's used. The 'clayness' of such work is
relevant, and no visually similar material, even if it possessed
identical working properties or other pragmatic traits, could
possibly substitute. Whether it's the connection with mother
Earth, the deep worldwide traditions equating clay with flesh,
or the idea of ceramics as geology in microcosm, the presence
of clay, undiluted by other materials, is intrinsic to the work.
For the preceding approaches, the unalloyed, basic ceramic
process is both sufficient and desirable. Not every use of clay
can be couched in these terms, however.
For artists who utilize the nature of their materials as part of the
meaning of their work, clay may not always say everything that
is necessary. Integrating other media becomes as important as
utilizing the clay, whether these other materials are the bulk of
the object or just a small element within the whole. For such
artists, surface is often less important than substance, and even
if the appearance of other materials could be simulated in clay
(as it often can be), the essence of the work would be lost.
Other artists are less interested in the identity of materials than
in their potential to convey concept through form and other
visual or tactile properties. For them, clay is a means to an end:
chameleonlike, able to render almost any form or surface: a
useful and practical medium. When the desired qualities of the
artwork can be achieved best by ceramic processes, they will
be utilized, but when the effect is best attained by other means,
there ought to be no philosophical barrier to making that
choice. If it needs to look plasticky, what better means than to
coat it in plastic? If it ought to be fuzzy, why not use flocking?
For these artists, whether it looks like clay at the end simply
isn't relevant.
As soon as there is only one right way to do anything, we are
all diminished.
-Snail
Cathi Newlin on sun 30 nov 08
This is just the way I was taught in my ceramic sculpture class in college.
First, our instructor would not let us model the clay with our hands - I
think he detested ceramics and didn't want that "look", so all modeling and
surface texture was done with tools, giving the pieces a very rough and
textured surface. I kinda liked it - it gave the piece life.
After the pieces were fired, we gave them a patina. One technique was using
several washes of very thin (think weak tea) acryllic paint. By applying the
wash and removing some of it, and experimenting with several colors, like
greens and ochres etc, the piece gained a depth that was quite nice.
Then we buffed on the MinWax (yeah, seems I remember using a hair dryer or
heat gun to heat the piece along the way...).
That's just one thing you could try, perhaps on some test "tiles".
The effect was nice and IMO enhanced the sculpture.
Ha! This instructor inadvertantly hooked me on traditional ceramics. I was
taking a lot of drawing, painting, printmaking classes and thought sculpture
would be nice because I would walk by the lab and see all the alabaster
sculptors making smooth, organic pieces.
Signed up only to find that we plebes were to work in clay (and I hated the
feel of clay then!).
I sculpted a really cool, huge salamandar and when it was fired, I wanted to
treat it with slick, shiny glazes. Darrel turned up his nose at me and told
me that glazes were for "potters" and maybe I shouldn't be in his class...
Bingo!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alice Simpson"
To:
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 12:59 PM
Subject: Unglazed Stoneware Question
> Cathi,
>
> Thanks for responding. I know what MinWax is but please,
> would you give me more information about 'acrylic paint wash.'
> Is that color or clear product?
>
> Mike Gordon has also recommended a hair dryer followed by
> Johnson paste floor wax with Carnuba and a good buffing.
>
> ***
> From: Cathi Newlin
>
> In my sculpture class, after applying a patina (usually one or
> more acrylic paint washes), we buffed the piece with MinWax.
>
> ***
> From: Alice Simpson
> Have just completed a series of sculptures which I only partially
> glazed and wondered if any learned folk could suggest how to
> treat the unglazed portion to keep it clean-- for all eternity.
>
> Spray? Wax? Soap and Water? Other?
>
> Cheers,
> Alice
> ALICE SIMPSON
> CLAY & BOOKS
> NEW! www.alicesimpson.com
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> www.ceramicstoday.com/articles/abundant_beauty.htm
>
Snail Scott on sun 30 nov 08
On Nov 29, 2008, at 4:47 PM, Neon-Cat wrote:
> ...someone do please address the question as to whether, as potters
> and ceramic artists, we are a hands-off visual medium only, or what..
I think it can be as tactile/interactive as the artist chooses.
Sculptors often do produce purely visual art, while
potters are more likely to make hands-on/tactile work.
It's no clear boundary, though. Many pots are strictly
hands-off ornamental works, while some sculpture is
meant to be touched. this makes clarifying it for the
viewer more important than ever.
Contemporary fine art has dealt with this issue for a while
now, as more artists than ever now work interactively,
with the expectation of viewer contact or even viewer
alteration of the artwork, while other artists prefer that
the end product remain as they envision, or who work
in media that would not survive actual touching. Often,
the difference between the two is not obvious to the
viewer.
Most ceramics can be handled without damage, and
that gives many opportunities for interaction that other
media cannot offer. On the other hand, it IS breakable,
and I wouldn't want to give a public impression that all
ceramics can, or even ought, to be handled.
As the artist, I think it's incumbent upon us to choose
the terms of viewer (or handler) interaction, and make
it known to our audience, whether that means chatting
at the craft fair booth, or nice explanatory wall labels
in a gallery.
-Snail
Thomas G. Sawyer, M.D.,J.D. on mon 1 dec 08
Vince,
I'm going to take up your suggestion; I'm looking to make some pieces that
incorporate ancient Egyptian and Cave Art Paintings; These areas will be
stained but I would like some glazes around the periphery or that have an
antiqued appearance. Thanks to all.
Tom Sawyer
Orlando, Florida
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Vince Pitelka
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 1:00 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Unglazed Stoneware Question
Alice Simpson wrote:
"Mike Gordon has also recommended a hair dryer followed by
Johnson paste floor wax with Carnuba and a good buffing."
Alice -
I hope you won't mind if I just play devil's advocate here and ask why you
would want to do this. If you wanted something more on those areas, why did
you leave them unglazed? Are you dissatisfied with the unglazed areas? If
so, then of course follow whichever advice seems most appropriate. I am
just curious why you did not do something more to those areas before firing.
It can be a significant challenge to achieve the surface effects we want
entirely with fired materials, but it is a challenge that faces everyone who
sets out to make things with fired clay. It is so very rewarding when we do
get the surface effects we want (or better than we expected) when the piece
comes out of the glaze firing.
If you will describe the kind of surfaces you want to achieve, I am sure
that the Clayart membership will give you plenty of suggestions on how to
accomplish that in future firings, so you will not have to resort to cold
finishes.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
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