Dave Drake on mon 4 may 09
Okay folks, I'm asking opinions as I torched the top of my Clay Boss Whee=
=3D
l
head that had some wax on it thinking I'd vaporize it off as the wheel he=
=3D
ad
has some grooves. Well, next thing I know the wax has a flame (and I hav=
=3D
e a
bad feeling) so I stop the torch and go to scrape off the now melted wax
only to find I'm digging into the wheel head that is made of plastic.
Now I'll give Creative Industries a plus on that the wheel head was stron=
=3D
g
enough and stable enuf to fool me into to assuming it was metal like my o=
=3D
ld
Shimpo, my bud's Lockerbie and even the Axner wheels. I feel as I've see=
=3D
n
Val C, Robin H, Steven Hill, my teacher and of course myself do a lot wit=
=3D
h
propane torches and all the fore mentioned metal wheel heads: that CI sho=
=3D
uld
have SOMETHING that warns trusting owners like myself that the wheel head=
=3D
is
plastic.=3D20=3D20
I feel they owe me a wheel head (it's a year out of warranty) and of cour=
=3D
se
I won't be putting fresh waxed bisque pots or anything waxed or hot for t=
=3D
hat
matter on there.
Any comments on this other than don't buy CI?=3D20=3D20
Thanks--DD
Mary Starosta on tue 5 may 09
OOPS Fire gods played a cruel joke on you. . . SORRY! Don't think the blam=
e
lies with CI but maybe they can give you a discount if you humbly ask and
explain your blight. Also, I found if you take responsibility, sometimes
you come out ahead. Pride is a funny thing
*pride*
*the trait of being spurred on by a dislike of falling below your
standards *
Mary Starosta
Colorado Potter
http://marystarosta.wordpress.com/
On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Dave Drake wrote=
:
> Okay folks, I'm asking opinions as I torched the top of my Clay Boss Whee=
l
> head that had some wax on it thinking I'd vaporize it off as the wheel he=
ad
> has some grooves. Well, next thing I know the wax has a flame (and I hav=
e
> a
> bad feeling) so I stop the torch and go to scrape off the now melted wax
> only to find I'm digging into the wheel head that is made of plastic.
>
> Now I'll give Creative Industries a plus on that the wheel head was stron=
g
> enough and stable enuf to fool me into to assuming it was metal like my o=
ld
> Shimpo, my bud's Lockerbie and even the Axner wheels. I feel as I've see=
n
> Val C, Robin H, Steven Hill, my teacher and of course myself do a lot wit=
h
> propane torches and all the fore mentioned metal wheel heads: that CI
> should
> have SOMETHING that warns trusting owners like myself that the wheel head
> is
> plastic.
>
> I feel they owe me a wheel head (it's a year out of warranty) and of cour=
se
> I won't be putting fresh waxed bisque pots or anything waxed or hot for
> that
> matter on there.
>
> Any comments on this other than don't buy CI?
>
> Thanks--DD
>
Des & Jan Howard on tue 5 may 09
Dave
Suck it up!
CI is not on the hook, you are, they owe you nowt!
Buy a new wheel head.
Des
Dave Drake wrote:
CI should have SOMETHING that warns trusting owners
like myself that the wheel head is
> plastic.
> I feel they owe me a wheel head (it's a year out of warranty) and of cour=
se
> I won't be putting fresh waxed bisque pots or anything waxed or hot for t=
hat
> matter on there.
> Any comments on this other than don't buy CI?
--
Des & Jan Howard
Lue Pottery
Lue NSW
Australia
2850
02 6373 6419
www.luepottery.hwy.com.au
-32.656072 149.840624
Chris Campbell on tue 5 may 09
OK ... I must be missing something.
You used a torch to melt wax off a
plastic object only to find that wax flames
and plastic melts and you are annoyed
there was no specific warning?
They should give you a new one since
you fried the old one?
I don't get what part of this is their fault.
How could they have ever imagined
someone would try this?
Chris Campbell - in North Carolina
Chris Campbell Pottery LLC
Designs in Colored Porcelain
9417 Koupela Drive
Raleigh NC 27615-2233
919-215-8644
Fax: 919-676-2062
www.ccpottery.com
http://neriagechris.blogspot.com/
Lyons on tue 5 may 09
I don't believe that CI has any responsibility to replace your wheel head.
When I purchased my Clay Boss I knew right away that the wheel head was
either plastic or plastic coated. My first thought was that it was "cheap"=
.
But after using it the plastic wheel head made a lot of sense when
considering the ease of cleaning corrosion prevention. I have to applaud
CI's ability to mass produce an inexpensive but true running wheel head in
this way. My Brent wheel head needs a lot more vigorous cleaning after use
to prevent staining and corrosion than my Clay Boss ever did. I would not
discourage anyone from purchasing a Clay Boss because of the wheel head but
I'd caution them about the electronics in the controller and foot pedal,
especially at slow speeds. This was one of the reasons that I went to a
Brent. Does anyone know if there is an "upgrade" for the Clay Boss
electronics or foot pedal to gain more control at slower speeds? I still
have both wheels and I'm considering using one of them strictly for trimmin=
g
and the other for throwing.
Dave Lyons
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Dave Drake
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 10:20 PM
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Should CI replace Melted Wheel head?
Okay folks, I'm asking opinions as I torched the top of my Clay Boss Wheel
head that had some wax on it thinking I'd vaporize it off as the wheel head
has some grooves. Well, next thing I know the wax has a flame (and I have =
a
bad feeling) so I stop the torch and go to scrape off the now melted wax
only to find I'm digging into the wheel head that is made of plastic.
Now I'll give Creative Industries a plus on that the wheel head was strong
enough and stable enuf to fool me into to assuming it was metal like my old
Shimpo, my bud's Lockerbie and even the Axner wheels. I feel as I've seen
Val C, Robin H, Steven Hill, my teacher and of course myself do a lot with
propane torches and all the fore mentioned metal wheel heads: that CI shoul=
d
have SOMETHING that warns trusting owners like myself that the wheel head i=
s
plastic.
I feel they owe me a wheel head (it's a year out of warranty) and of course
I won't be putting fresh waxed bisque pots or anything waxed or hot for tha=
t
matter on there.
Any comments on this other than don't buy CI?
Thanks--DD
Tom at Hutchtel.net on tue 5 may 09
Hi Dave,
The wheel head on CI wheels is not plastic, it is aluminum covered with som=
e
type of plastic material. The reason being, if you've ever seen aluminum
attacked by clay, it quickly gets pitted and corroded. I've had 2 CI
wheels, one for some 20 years and one for maybe 18. Same wheelhead as they
currently use. And it was obviously covered with some material softer than
aluminum since day one. I've been careful not to use sharp instruments on
it.
Tom Wirt
----- Original Message -----
Subject: Should CI replace Melted Wheel head?
Okay folks, I'm asking opinions as I torched the top of my Clay Boss Wheel
head that had some wax on it thinking I'd vaporize it off as the wheel head
has some grooves. Well, next thing I know the wax has a flame (and I have =
a
bad feeling) so I stop the torch and go to scrape off the now melted wax
only to find I'm digging into the wheel head that is made of plastic.
Now I'll give Creative Industries a plus on that the wheel head was strong
enough and stable enuf to fool me into to assuming it was metal like my old
Phoenix Rising Farm on tue 5 may 09
Dave:
If you've been a member of this list for a while, you know the mantra:
"Test, test, test".
A simple scratch test with a needle tool could have
told you what material the wheel head was made from. Mine are all
cast aluminum (Brent and Lockerbie).
I know because I checked with a needle tool,
and then checked with a magnet...just to be sure.
What I want to know is why you used a torch,
instead of a blow dryer or heat gun
to melt that wax?
Kind of like using a chainsaw to cut a twig, don'tcha think?
That's not CI's fault, my friend. It sounds like operator error to me.
Best,
Wayne Seidl
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Dave Drake
> Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 10:20 PM
> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Should CI replace Melted Wheel head?
>
>
>
> I feel they owe me a wheel head (it's a year out of warranty) and of cour=
se
> I won't be putting fresh waxed bisque pots or anything waxed or hot for t=
hat
> matter on there.
>
> Any comments on this other than don't buy CI?
>
> Thanks--DD
>
>
Tom at Hutchtel.net on tue 5 may 09
I know the old HP, MP and JR model wheels had adjustments for startup and
top speed inside the electronics black box. Call CI, I've always found the=
m
(Andy is their tech guy), very helpful. Let us know their response.
Tom
>>
----- Original Message -----
I would not
discourage anyone from purchasing a Clay Boss because of the wheel head but
I'd caution them about the electronics in the controller and foot pedal,
especially at slow speeds. This was one of the reasons that I went to a
Brent. Does anyone know if there is an "upgrade" for the Clay Boss
electronics or foot pedal to gain more control at slower speeds? I still
have
gayle bair on tue 5 may 09
Dave,
What you torched was the composite surface. I don't have my CI manual =3D20=
=3D
anymore but it is defined online.
"14=3D94 wheel head with sturdy steel structure and long lasting =3D20
polypropolene composite surface"
see:
http://www.creativewheels.com/products/Wheels/Pottery%20Wheels/46.html
My advice.....
Check your manual. if the description is missing the line above I feel =3D2=
0=3D
you could contact them about it.
But if it is clearly described as having the composite surface you =3D20
should take responsibility for the repair.
When I had my CI it was pretty clear to me that the surface was not =3D20
bare metal when I used the torch as I saw it start to burn
after that I was very careful with the torch.
The nice thing about that surface was that, when throwing, it didn't =3D20
get discolored and leach aluminum.
If you decide it isn't worth the repair just use bats instead of =3D20
throwing directly on the wheel head.
Just my 2 sense!
Gayle Bair
Tucson AZ
Bainbridge Island WA
gayle@claybair.com
www.claybair.com
On May 4, 2009, at 8:20 PM, Dave Drake wrote:
> Okay folks, I'm asking opinions as I torched the top of my Clay Boss =3D2=
0=3D
> Wheel
> head that had some wax on it thinking I'd vaporize it off as the =3D20
> wheel head
> has some grooves. Well, next thing I know the wax has a flame (and =3D20=
=3D
> I have a
> bad feeling) so I stop the torch and go to scrape off the now melted =3D2=
0=3D
> wax
> only to find I'm digging into the wheel head that is made of plastic.
>
> Now I'll give Creative Industries a plus on that the wheel head was =3D20=
=3D
> strong
> enough and stable enuf to fool me into to assuming it was metal like =3D2=
0=3D
> my old
> Shimpo, my bud's Lockerbie and even the Axner wheels. I feel as =3D20
> I've seen
> Val C, Robin H, Steven Hill, my teacher and of course myself do a =3D20
> lot with
> propane torches and all the fore mentioned metal wheel heads: that =3D20
> CI should
> have SOMETHING that warns trusting owners like myself that the wheel =3D2=
0=3D
> head is
> plastic.
>
> I feel they owe me a wheel head (it's a year out of warranty) and of =3D2=
0=3D
> course
> I won't be putting fresh waxed bisque pots or anything waxed or hot =3D20=
=3D
> for that
> matter on there.
>
> Any comments on this other than don't buy CI?
>
> Thanks--DD
Randall Moody on tue 5 may 09
It would be nice of them if they did replace your wheel head but I don't
think they "owe" you a new one since what you did was outside the normal
usage for a potter's wheel. I torch my sectional pieces regularly. But even
though I have them on a bat I make sure to watch what I am doing and put
more water down on the bat to cool the plastic.
--
Randall in Atlanta
Eric Hansen on wed 6 may 09
Dave: Your post makes it clear that it is actually not safe to assume that
all wheel heads are flame proof. A practice is not necessarily a standard
practice or even the best practice simply because "it is done". (?) What is
wrong with hair dryer or paint stripper gun? Are we that impatient? I would
opt to have the wheel head repaired locally rather than have it restored to
mint condition as a reminder never to make assumptions...H A N
S E N
On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 11:20 PM, Dave Drake wrote=
:
> Okay folks, I'm asking opinions as I torched the top of my Clay Boss Whee=
l
> head that had some wax on it thinking I'd vaporize it off as the wheel he=
ad
> has some grooves. Well, next thing I know the wax has a flame (and I hav=
e
> a
> bad feeling) so I stop the torch and go to scrape off the now melted wax
> only to find I'm digging into the wheel head that is made of plastic.
>
> Now I'll give Creative Industries a plus on that the wheel head was stron=
g
> enough and stable enuf to fool me into to assuming it was metal like my o=
ld
> Shimpo, my bud's Lockerbie and even the Axner wheels. I feel as I've see=
n
> Val C, Robin H, Steven Hill, my teacher and of course myself do a lot wit=
h
> propane torches and all the fore mentioned metal wheel heads: that CI
> should
> have SOMETHING that warns trusting owners like myself that the wheel head
> is
> plastic.
>
> I feel they owe me a wheel head (it's a year out of warranty) and of cour=
se
> I won't be putting fresh waxed bisque pots or anything waxed or hot for
> that
> matter on there.
>
> Any comments on this other than don't buy CI?
>
> Thanks--DD
>
gayle bair on fri 8 may 09
Josh,
My first wheel was a CI model MP wheel & never had any problems with it.
The teacher who bought it from me has been very happy with it.
I sold it because I was running out of space and needed a wheel that
took up less space.
I think one really needs to access what the demands are going to be
before purchasing a wheel.
How much clay are you going to throw e.g.10, 15, 150, 250, 450 lbs?
Does the wheel fit your body?
What is important to you e.g. sensitive pedal, noise etc?
I bought a Brent B cause it fits my body better than the other wheels
I have used).
BTW the 2009 Brent B handles 150lbs, has the classic foot pedal and
does not cause static when I listen to music or DVD,
plus it now has a 10 year warrantee. I'm very happy with it and the
Brent/Amaco booth guys at NCECA who graciously cleaned, boxed hauled
and loaded it into my van.
Thanks Chad!
I had to chew out another NCECA vendor's employee for refusing to help
my friend disassemble a pretty pricy piece of equipment she
bought...later he apparently recanted and did help her. It took 10
minutes if that.... if she had to do it herself it would have taken a
lot longer. We had to haul it to my van ourselves! I will think more
than twice before buying that brand. That was not good PR but a good
lesson for me!
Ok I'm going back out to my new Brent B in my garagio where it's
pretty toasty but not quite as hot as 101F in the shade I just read on
the gauge on my porch in Tucson!
Gayle Bair
Tucson AZ
Bainbridge Island WA
gayle@claybair.com
www.claybair.com
On May 8, 2009, at 4:54 PM, The Fuzzy Chef wrote:
> Dave,
>
>> Next up is that the controller/motor/foot pedal is a near
>> disaster. I'm on
>> my 3rd controller, second motor/foot pedal. Yes their Clay Boss
>> controllers
>> and foot pedal are that bad. Nothing short of unusable for wide
>> work. If
>> you gently work the peddle you can get a medium speed. Otherwise
>> it's fast,
>> very fast and unbelievably fast or stop. Try working on a wide bowl
>> and you soon have a platter for a split second till it's slung
>> apart or torn
>> on the catch pan.
>
> This (rather than the wheel head) is the main reason why CI wheels are
> generally cheaper than comparative Brent wheels. The wheel solenoid
> (sp?) is the single most expensive single component in the wheel, so
> the
> less expensive the wheel, the worse the foot pedal.
>
> When I used to work on Soldner wheels, that little foot pedal cost us
> something like $500 if we had to replace it (not often, it was more or
> less infinitely repairable).
>
> In other words, what I'm saying is that you get what you pay for (or
> less). CI has done a great job of figuring out how to make a usable
> wheel which they can sell profitably for less than $600. If you
> want a
> more professional wheel with better controls, then pay more. I paid
> $900 for my Brent C, and it would be more if I got it now.
>
> I realize that you're frustrated with your CI since you apparently
> didn't know what you were buying when you got it, and maybe you paid
> too
> much for it. But that's not CI's fault; they've always been clear
> that
> they are the most economical wheel, not the smoothest or the fastest
> or
> the strongest. Lashing out at CI doesn't help you any, and certainly
> doesn't make them inclined to give you a discount on a replacement
> wheel
> head (they do read this list).
>
> But it sounds like you're not going to be happy with anything short
> of a
> Brent C (or Stuart, or other premium wheel), so maybe it's time to dig
> out the credit cards?
>
> --Josh Berkus
Dave Drake on fri 8 may 09
Okay I'd like to follow up the responses with some more info for those th=
=3D
at
are interested in CI Clay Boss performance and to say thanks for the
responses, well almost all of them.
First folks, I was looking for constructive answers, not flames Chris
(pardon the pun). Next I got it used w/o owner's manual, but still in
warranty (note below). Thanks for the link to their owner's manual.
Note that the wheel head is a good one and very tough (sans heavy
heat/flame). I've been on it before with metal tools and flame before w/=
=3D
o
problems. It rings like metal. I was convinced it was just a great allo=
=3D
y
of some type and went on about my business as I haven't seen a plastic ho=
=3D
ld
up so well to metal tools before or fire. So (to me) I was burning off a=
=3D
lot of wax off of a metal wheel head with nice concentric rings from the
casting (which hold the wax).=3D20
I didn't analyze if it cleaned, didn't pit, etc. better than a metal one.=
=3D
=3D20
It just good, giving me false confidence in regards to LONG heavy heat. =
=3D
I'd
put flame on it before, but not so intensely or as long. I really had no=
=3D
idea it was vulnerable to the torch. There was nothing on it to say that=
=3D
it
was plastic or plastic coated or whatever it actually is. I will call th=
=3D
em
and ask about its makeup of course when I plead my case.=3D20
I'm going to try a very fine grade commercial body filler and see what we=
=3D
get. I can put grooves in that before it hardens (epoxy) and it will be
smooth (I've done commercial car body work).
Next up is that the controller/motor/foot pedal is a near disaster. I'm =
=3D
on
my 3rd controller, second motor/foot pedal. Yes their Clay Boss controll=
=3D
ers
and foot pedal are that bad. Nothing short of unusable for wide work. I=
=3D
f
you gently work the peddle you can get a medium speed. Otherwise it's fa=
=3D
st,
very fast and unbelievably fast or stop. Try working on a wide bowl
and you soon have a platter for a split second till it's slung apart or t=
=3D
orn
on the catch pan.
Tweak the pedal with your hands and you can get a slow speed where the wh=
=3D
eel
head stutters around. So you have to do what I did which was get into th=
=3D
e
controller box and turn the potentiometers till you can get something tha=
=3D
t
works. Customized, I now get a tolerable top speed and it just vibrates
loudly at very slow speeds with minimal stuttering. The vibration will g=
=3D
et
very bad till you stop the wheel and start it up very carefully again. C=
=3D
I
has worked with me on this, best that they/we can do. I miss the Lockerb=
=3D
ie
flywheel thats sooo smooth and slow when throwing big.=3D20
Hope this gives you the plus and minus of a entry level wheel (Axner whee=
=3D
l
goes too fast as well) so you can inform new guys what the trade-offs are=
=3D
.=3D20
CI is good on TRYING to fix the issues, but they just use too much twinky=
=3D
stuff. I've yet to see a table top Artista catch pan that fits right, Se=
=3D
en
three so far and the water cups split when squeezed like cheap cups. My
advice is skip CI except maybe their bats. I usually grab for the ones th=
=3D
at
came with my wheels first for anything beyond the 6" square wonder bat sy=
=3D
stem.
If you have/n't had my problems with the Clay Boss, then I suggest starti=
=3D
ng
another thread, this one is worn out on dealing with the melted WH.
Thanks again--DD
Snail Scott on fri 8 may 09
>
> On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 11:20 PM, Dave Drake
> wrote:
>> ...I'm asking opinions as I torched the top of my Clay Boss Wheel
>> head that had some wax on it thinking I'd vaporize it off...
Poor Dave. He made a not-unfounded assumption
based on prior experience, and got bitten soundly
in the ass. Let's let the poor guy get back to the
studio to earn a new wheelhead. We've all done
something like that: mistake a jawbreaker candy
for a chocolate, a hot skillet for a cold one, or maybe
something with even worse consequences than a
broken tooth, blistered hand, or melted wheelhead.
Credit for admitting to it, I say, and a moratorium on
any further smug 'ya shoulda known better' posts.
-Snail
The Fuzzy Chef on fri 8 may 09
Dave,
> Next up is that the controller/motor/foot pedal is a near disaster. I'm =
on
> my 3rd controller, second motor/foot pedal. Yes their Clay Boss controll=
ers
> and foot pedal are that bad. Nothing short of unusable for wide work. I=
f
> you gently work the peddle you can get a medium speed. Otherwise it's fa=
st,
> very fast and unbelievably fast or stop. Try working on a wide bowl
> and you soon have a platter for a split second till it's slung apart or t=
orn
> on the catch pan.
This (rather than the wheel head) is the main reason why CI wheels are
generally cheaper than comparative Brent wheels. The wheel solenoid
(sp?) is the single most expensive single component in the wheel, so the
less expensive the wheel, the worse the foot pedal.
When I used to work on Soldner wheels, that little foot pedal cost us
something like $500 if we had to replace it (not often, it was more or
less infinitely repairable).
In other words, what I'm saying is that you get what you pay for (or
less). CI has done a great job of figuring out how to make a usable
wheel which they can sell profitably for less than $600. If you want a
more professional wheel with better controls, then pay more. I paid
$900 for my Brent C, and it would be more if I got it now.
I realize that you're frustrated with your CI since you apparently
didn't know what you were buying when you got it, and maybe you paid too
much for it. But that's not CI's fault; they've always been clear that
they are the most economical wheel, not the smoothest or the fastest or
the strongest. Lashing out at CI doesn't help you any, and certainly
doesn't make them inclined to give you a discount on a replacement wheel
head (they do read this list).
But it sounds like you're not going to be happy with anything short of a
Brent C (or Stuart, or other premium wheel), so maybe it's time to dig
out the credit cards?
--Josh Berkus
| |
|
