gary navarre on sat 15 aug 09
This just shows how shallow, brainwashed, and blind to reality people have=
=3D
become. The whole idea of "souvenir" has become pointless. Buying somethin=
=3D
g to prove you been somewhere just doesn't make sense anymore. I'd keep thi=
=3D
ngs like receipts, or a scrap of food I could smuggle out of the country, o=
=3D
r a stone, a leaf and a chunk of wood, a dead bug would be cool. Just ship =
=3D
it to myself UPS and have it when I get home. Photographs of the seamy side=
=3D
of life would be interesting especially with the name of the location some=
=3D
where in the shot. However... I just remembered I don't travel so I don't c=
=3D
are. Seems as if it's becoming pointless to make anything.=3D0A=3D0AGary Na=
varr=3D
e=3D0ANavarre Pottery=3D0ANavarre Enterprises=3D0ANorway, Michigan, USA=3D0=
Ahttp://=3D
www.youtube.com/GindaUP=3D0Ahttp://public.fotki.com/GindaUP/=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=
--- On S=3D
at, 8/15/09, Lee Love wrote:=3D0A=3D0A> From: Lee =
Love=3D
=3D0A> Subject: Re: [Clayart] Art vs Craft, Faux H=
an=3D
dmade=3D0A> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=3D0A> Date: Saturday, August 15, 2=
009,=3D
11:05 AM=3D0A> On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 8:05 AM,=3D0A> Maggie Furtakrami=3D
cs@yahoo.com>=3D0A> wrote:=3D0A> =3D0A> > I do meet folks at craft shows wh=
o are =3D
surprised that=3D0A> my pots are hand-thrown because >they "look so nice."=
=3D0A=3D
> =3DA0They assume at first glance that I'm a rep like the=3D0A> Pampered C=
hef=3D
=3D0A> =3D0A> This is something else in the craft experience, that we are=
=3D0A> b=3D
ehind the=3D0A> Japanese in.=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0When I first visited Japan in=3D=
0A> '93, I=3D
found that many of=3D0A> the souvenir pots at the old kiln town tourist sh=
op=3D
s were=3D0A> actually=3D0A> made in S. Korea.=3DA0 =3DA0 No doubt, that man=
ufacture=3D
=3D0A> has shifted to China.=3D0A> =3DA0 They are actually handmade, but ar=
e chea=3D
per, even=3D0A> considering the=3D0A> cost of shipping.=3D0A> =3D0A> =3D0A>=
-- =3D0A> -=3D
-=3D0A> Lee Love, Minneapolis=3D0A> "The tea ceremony bowl is the ceramic e=
quiv=3D
alent of a=3D0A> sonnet: a=3D0A> small-scale, seemingly constricted form th=
at c=3D
hallenges the=3D0A> artist to=3D0A> go beyond mere technical virtuosity and=
fin=3D
d an approach=3D0A> that both=3D0A> satisfies and transcends the convention=
s." =3D
-- Rob=3D0A> Sliberman=3D0A> full essay: http://togeika.multiply.com/journa=
l/it=3D
em/273/=3D0A> =3D0A=3D0A=3D0A
gary navarre on sat 15 aug 09
Welcome to the real world Maggie,=3D0A=3D0A That sounds like a good idea! I=
f I =3D
get what you are saying I could make a dozen cup designs with finger prints=
=3D
and buggles that could be ram pressed, cast, or however these things are m=
=3D
ade, and farm them out so I could make more money than making each one in g=
=3D
roups. With unemployment like it is up here it should be easy to find some =
=3D
Cedar survivor willing to tend a machine for beer money. Put "Made in China=
=3D
" on them and the pieces would be faux imports. Of course Upper Michigan is=
=3D
like a foreign country to the rest of the states so I wouldn't be guilty o=
=3D
f misrepresentation. =3D0A=3D0A =3D0AGary Navarre=3D0ANavarre Pottery=3D0A=
Navarre En=3D
terprises=3D0ANorway, Michigan, USA=3D0Ahttp://www.youtube.com/GindaUP=3D0A=
http:/=3D
/public.fotki.com/GindaUP/=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A--- On Sat, 8/15/09, Maggie Furtak=
ceramics@YAHOO.COM> wrote:=3D0A=3D0A> From: Maggie Furtak OO.C=3D
OM>=3D0A> Subject: Re: [Clayart] Art vs Craft, Faux Handmade=3D0A> To: Clay=
art@=3D
LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=3D0A> Date: Saturday, August 15, 2009, 8:05 AM=3D0A> Has a=
nyon=3D
e else noticed a trend=3D0A> toward the faux hand-thrown pot in high-end sh=
op=3D
s lately?=3D0A> =3D0A> One of the shops I sell through sells items from lar=
ge=3D
=3D0A> companies as well as individual crafters.=3DA0 Over the=3D0A> last f=
ew yea=3D
rs I've noticed that their commercial pottery=3D0A> has started tending tow=
ar=3D
d things that are slipcast, but=3D0A> warped and slightly off-center with c=
ru=3D
de fake throwing=3D0A> lines and flat unfinished bottoms.=3DA0 Each mug has=
=3D0A>=3D
wobbles and finger dimples, but if you look closely, you=3D0A> notice that=
t=3D
he wobbles and finger dimples are identical on=3D0A> each one.=3DA0 The bow=
ls h=3D
ave flat bottoms, without a=3D0A> footring, but are definitely slipcast if =
yo=3D
u examine them=3D0A> closely.=3DA0 It's still all made in China.=3D0A> =3D0=
A> I'm c=3D
urious if anyone else has seen this, and what you=3D0A> think it means abou=
t =3D
our aesthetic values as a culture.=3D0A> =3D0A> I'd say it's a positive sig=
n, a=3D
s it suggests customers are=3D0A> looking for handmade items.=3DA0 It's a b=
ad s=3D
ign, though,=3D0A> that they think crude, off-center, and fingerprinted equ=
al=3D
s=3D0A> hand-made.=3DA0 I also think it's sad that they are paying=3D0A> mo=
re for=3D
ugly stuff from China than they would usually pay=3D0A> for well-designed =
st=3D
uff from China, because they think they=3D0A> are getting something hand-ma=
de=3D
.=3D0A> =3D0A> I do meet folks at craft shows who are surprised that my=3D0=
A> pot=3D
s are hand-thrown because they "look so nice."=3DA0 They=3D0A> assume at fi=
rst =3D
glance that I'm a rep like the Pampered Chef=3D0A> lady and the Tupperware =
la=3D
dy.=3DA0 And it's not that my=3D0A> pots are particularly fabulous.=3DA0 I =
have a=3D
very simple,=3D0A> inexpensive production line, but they are decently craf=
te=3D
d=3D0A> with nice glazes.=3DA0 What can we do to educate our=3D0A> public?=
=3D0A> =3D
=3D0A> -Maggie=3D0A> =3D0A> Pate Ceramics=3D0A> pateceramics.blogspot.com=
=3D0A> patec=3D
eramics.etsy.com=3D0A> =3D0A=3D0A=3D0A
Lee Love on sun 16 aug 09
On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 8:05 AM, Maggie Furtak wrot=
=3D
e:
> =3DA0What can we do to educate our public?
Maggie,
In Mashiko, at the Tsukamoto factory, they have glazed
trailed platters down to a science. They have some kind of automated
glaze trailers that do a really fine job of doing Hamada-like
decoration. What I realized looking at those jiggered plates that
looked so nice, that I had to ad something to my handmade platters
that isn't present in those factory made ones. Regularity and
repeatability is the forte of machine made things. Handmade things
have to have the touch of the maker in them.
My platters sold pretty well in Mashiko for about $250.00
each. The factory ones sold for about $35.00 You are right, we
have to educate the citizen about handmade and also about buying
local.
--
Lee Love, Minneapolis
"The tea ceremony bowl is the ceramic equivalent of a sonnet: a
small-scale, seemingly constricted form that challenges the artist to
go beyond mere technical virtuosity and find an approach that both
satisfies and transcends the conventions." -- Rob Sliberman
full essay: http://togeika.multiply.com/journal/item/273/
marci and rex on sun 16 aug 09
At 11:52 PM 8/15/2009, gary navarre wrote:
> Put "Made in China" on them and the pieces would be faux imports.
> Of course Upper Michigan is like a foreign country to the rest of
> the states so I wouldn't be guilty of misrepresentation.
HI Gary :You could
claim that Upper Michigan is really Southern Canada :O)
Marci Blattenberger Boskie's Mama =3D^..^=3D
http://www.marciblattenberger.com
marci@ppio.com
Porcelain Painters International Online http://www.ppio.com
Snail Scott on sun 16 aug 09
On Aug 15, 2009, at 8:05 AM, Maggie Furtak wrote:
> ...Over the last few years I've noticed that their commercial pottery=3D2=
0=3D
> has started tending toward things that are slipcast, but warped and=3D20
> slightly off-center with crude fake throwing lines and flat unfinished=3D=
20=3D
> bottoms...
> I'm curious if anyone else has seen this, and what you think it means=3D2=
0=3D
> about our aesthetic values as a culture...
When perfection was difficult, it was valued. Now,
anybody can stamp out hundreds of identical,
perfect, smooth dishes in a day which would have
taken a great master months of work 300 years ago.=3DA0
Perfectly woven cloth made of perfectly consistent
smooth threads can be bought for a dollar a yard,
cloth that might once have been a masterwork for
its spinner, dyers, and weavers.
Now, perfection is easy and cheap. I bought a
box of screws yesterday - hundreds of them, all
identical, with perfectly turned threads, for a few
dollars. I've made screws by hand, back in my
silversmithing days, but who would do such
careful meticulous work for such a price?
The irony is that though machines have aided us
in making perfect, smooth, consistent products,
they can have trouble making irregular, loppy,
inconsistent things. So - these traits become
marks of status. Not an appreciation of handwork,
per se, but of the costliness of handmade things,
especially in a culture where labor is well-paid
and handmade things correspondingly valuable.
Who would pay a premium for something that
looks machine made, and therefore cheap?
Not many people really look at and appreciate
the aesthetics of an object independent of its
origins.
Irregular, lumpy, inconsistent forms aren't the
marks of handwork per se, but ironically, are
often the marks of inferior, sloppy, cheap
handwork! But if impeccable regularity doesn't
look like handwork, it has trouble partaking in
the presumed benefits of handwork and its
market niche.
(Some cultures (some Japanese aesthetics,
for example), have historically not made this
distinction because of machine vs. hand, but
court vs. peasant. Sort of aesthetic slumming,
if you will; an aesthetic alliance with the
presumed virtues of the common people,
even when executed by an elite craftsman.
This distinction is a bit different from the topic
of the original post, however.)
Back when I worked in a pizza joint, the word
came down from management that people
thought our pizzas were machine-made,
because we trained all our cooks to make a
perfect-looking pizza - even crust, even cheese,
evenly-arranged toppings. It was a public-
relations nightmare as the rumor spread.
The cooks were told to start leaving the crusts
a little lumpy, and to scatter the cheese
unevenly, just to prove they were truly made
from scratch. Go to any pizza place now, and
I guarantee that the higher the price, the
messier the pizza will look. Most even and
perfect-looking pizza? cheap. (some really
is machine made in a factory.) Loppy, not
close to round, and most of the toppings
clumped up on one side? That's at the
'authentic' wood-oven restaurant (which
may not even cook them that way) for
triple the price.
If 'handmade' is a selling point and one
way that you claim that your work is better
than what the customer could get from a
factory, the customer is going to want to SEE
a difference. Design is one way to do that,
but design is easier to copy than the evidence
of method, as long as that evidence is of an
irregular (i.e. hard-to-duplicate-in-volume)
method.
Nobody is denying the skill needed to make
consistently perfect objects, but (people think).
why buy them from a craftsman, when the
same look costs less from a factory? Only
someone committed to the philosophy of
the handmade (and not just the style) would
do that - and they are just a fraction of
pottery buyers.
-Snail
Des & Jan Howard on sun 16 aug 09
gary navarre wrote:
> I'd keep things like receipts,
> or a stone, a leaf and a chunk of wood,
> a dead bug would be cool.
> Just ship it to myself UPS and have it when I get home.
> or a scrap of food I could smuggle out of the country,
There are pock-marked brick or concrete walls
at every entry point into Australia.
We have very strict quarantine laws.
I imagine the US is the same.
> Seems as if it's becoming pointless to make anything.
Not so. Hold fast, keep the faith. You have a new kiln
coming on line.
Des
--
Des & Jan Howard
Lue Pottery
Lue NSW
Australia
2850
02 6373 6419
www.luepottery.hwy.com.au
-32.656072 149.840624
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