James Freeman on fri 14 aug 09
Ric, et al...
I have always maintained that the difference between art and craft
boils down to zeroes. If your pot is $30, it is "craft". If it is
$300, it is "fine craft". $3000, it is "art". $30,000, it is "fine
art".
If it's a painting, it is automatically "art", unless of course you
can recognize what it is a painting of, in which case it is "kitch",
unless you are one of the one or two figurative painters the art
establishment tolerates, in which case you are back to art.
If it is a sculpture, it is automatically "art", but bronze trumps
stone, stone trumps steel, steel trumps wood, and everything trumps
clay. A sculpture of nothing trumps a sculpture of something, and a
sculpture of something ugly or tortured trumps a sculpture of
something beautiful.
If you glue or weld your junk together into something recognizable
like an animal or a robot, then it is automatically "kitch", unless
you are Deborah Butterfield. If it is unrecognizable then it is
automatically "art", unless you are a child, in which case it is
"cute".
There, I've settled the dispute once and for all! If there are any
questions, I will be holding office hours after class. This will be
on the exam.
Take care.
...James
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I
should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/clayart/
2009/8/13 Ric Swenson :
> so...it is all about money?...no laws? =3DA0ok..
>
>
>
> I do not, personally believe it......but who the f.... am I...?
>
>
>
>
>
> Just .... A poor potter.....now =3DA0living in China.....doing some work =
wh=3D
ich you will never see...and I do not care if you do...
>
>
>
> my work speaks......not my money... I am poor....but pretty happy here...=
=3D
.and after 40 years making pots and sculptures.......my work is acceptible.=
=3D
..maybe even good...? =3DA0Who knows? =3DA0History will judge.
>
>
>
> the kiln gods rule. =3DA0my craft is damn good,
>
>
>
>
>
> hehe.
>
>
>
>
>
> en
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ric
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "...then fiery expedition be my wing, ..."
>
> -Wm. Shakespeare, RICHARD III, Act IV Scene III
>
>
>
> Richard H. ("Ric") Swenson, Teacher,
> Office of International Cooperation and Exchange of Jingdezhen Ceramic In=
=3D
stitute,
> TaoYang Road, Eastern Suburb, Jingdezhen City.
> JiangXi Province, P.R. of China.
> Postal code 333001.
>
>
> Mobile/cellular phone : 86 13767818872
>
>
> < RicSwenson0823@hotmail.com>
>
> http://www.jci.jx.cn/
> http://www.ricswenson.com
>
>
>
>
>
>> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:07:23 -0400
>> From: Claycincal@AOL.COM
>> Subject: Art vs Craft: was: Without laws
>> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>>
>> craft - _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craft_
>> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craft)
>> art - _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A=
=3D
rt)
>>
>> The problem I see is that we have a lot of potters practicing "bad" craf=
=3D
t
>> combined with what I describe as "too many second rate painters and
>> sculptors being taken serious as first rate ceramic artists."
>> Oh - they might make money from it and they might have some acclaim but
>> there still is a lot of bad craft out there, a lot of room for improveme=
=3D
nt.
>> Just because it is hand made doesn't mean it's good design.
>> For most a good year or two of figure drawing would benefit most pottery
>> makers. You know, learn a good sense of form and how parts should fit
>> together, the ole golden rule lernin.
>> In the end, the craft vs art debate is about money.
>> People who make "craft" would like to command the prices the artists mak=
=3D
e.
>> But for most potters, they deal in the emperors clothes. And there is
>> nothing "more" there. Sometimes, a bowl is just a bowl, and a cup is jus=
=3D
t a
>> cup, and a handmade cup is not going to save the world.
>> History has a way of sorting it all out. Of course that goes into the
>> debate of "artifact" vs "art" and the difference between the two. But th=
=3D
at can
>> be saved for another time.
>> Finally I wanted to touch on the delusion that some get themselves into.
>> If you look at say a butterfield horse, a calder stabile or a pollack
>> painting. And you say to yourself "I can do that" You're mistaken I beli=
=3D
eve.
>> Their stuff deals in =3D93ideas and a personal language=3D94. And I thin=
k TH=3D
AT is
>> what art is about, and most potters fail in developing their own ideas a=
=3D
nd
>> a personal language and thus they stay making craft.
>> Donn Buchfinck
>> _www.donnbuchfinck.com_ (http://www.donnbuchfinck.com/)
>> _www.youtube.com/bayareaartist999_
>> (http://www.youtube.com/bayareaartist999)
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Show them the way! Add maps and directions to your party invites.
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/events.aspx
>
Lee Love on fri 14 aug 09
On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 11:22 AM, James
Freeman wrote:
> Ric, et al...
>
> I have always maintained that the difference between art and craft
> boils down to zeroes. =3DA0If your pot is $30, it is "craft". =3DA0If it =
is
> $300, it is "fine craft". =3DA0$3000, it is "art". =3DA0$30,000, it is "f=
ine
> art".
James, it is different in Japan. His big platters are craft and go
for $30,000.00 What this phenomenon tells us, is that the art/craft
separation is not universal. Actually, it has only come about in
modern times.
--
Lee Love, Minneapolis
"The tea ceremony bowl is the ceramic equivalent of a sonnet: a
small-scale, seemingly constricted form that challenges the artist to
go beyond mere technical virtuosity and find an approach that both
satisfies and transcends the conventions." -- Rob Sliberman
full essay: http://togeika.multiply.com/journal/item/273/
Luke Nealey on fri 14 aug 09
I agree with Ric. Why has this summer brought out this validation angst in
this list. One lives the life they live and hope it has some value (who
knows?). Jealousy or indignation about somebody that makes more money, is
more famous, sells out, is all a waste of time. It's like teachers that
complain how underpaid they. It's true, but if the pay is so important go
do something else. I hope I have some small positive impact on the 120
students that exit my school to college every year. It's what keeps me
coming to work and alive. I really don't know if what I do is worth a thing=
.
I also make a few pots and hope I improve with each vessel, each
glazing, each firing. I like it when someone likes my stuff. I like it
more when I like what comes out of the kiln. But it doesn't matter one bit
what it is; art, craft, blah, blah, blah. It is what it is, that's it.
Regards
Luke Nealey
Rankin Co. MS
On 8/13/09, Ric Swenson wrote:
>
> so...it is all about money?...no laws? ok..
>
> Just .... A poor potter.....now living in China.....doing some work whic=
h
> you will never see...and I do not care if you do...
>
>
>
>
Des & Jan Howard on sun 16 aug 09
Marci! Come back!
It's already been done!
Des
marci and rex wrote:
> ROFLMAO !! So, what s wrong with being a
philistine? LOL
> !... I kinda pride myself on it. :O)
> And while I cant say :" My kid could do that " , I do have
> a houseful of talented
> kitties who barf up some remarkably interesting
> hairballs.................. Hairballs? .....................
> Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....( wandering off to the clay room ) ......
--
Des & Jan Howard
Lue Pottery
Lue NSW
Australia
2850
02 6373 6419
www.luepottery.hwy.com.au
-32.656072 149.840624
| |
|
