KATHI LESUEUR on fri 4 sep 09
On Sep 2, 2009, at 12:38 PM, Ann Potter wrote:
> I spoke to a man about a space last month and I am now trying to put
> together a plan before I to go talk to someone about a start up loan.
>
> I am looking for basic studio equipment:
> a good size electric kiln
> kiln shelves/posts
> kiln vent
> slab roller (thinking of a portable -- any experience with those
> anyone?)
> ware cart or sturdy shelf on wheels
> shelving
> pugmill to reclaim clay
> sturdy work tables on wheels
>
> I live in MD near Washington.
>
> Any advice on new kiln vs used?
>
> I plan to use it for my own work as well as class work since I plan
> to teach
> out of the studio as well.
>
> Thanks
>
> Ann
>
I kept waiting for someone else to reply to this, but since no one
did, I'll throw in my two cents.
It would appear from the list of equipment you require that you are
rather new to the clay business. If that's the case I question
whether you have realistic expectations for success. If you haven't
been potting for a long time are you qualified to teach. Perhaps I'm
wrong and you've just been working out of someone else's studio.
Still my advice would be the same. Don't quit your day job. Acquire
your equipment like most of us have done, one piece at a time for
cash. Don't go into debt to set up a studio. Unless you have a home
or something else of value to put up as collateral I doubt you'd be
able to get a bank loan to set yourself up. If you did manage to get
it you could be risking everything you have. Those of us who have
been potting for a living for a long time can tell you that it isn't
easy. And, in this economic environment it's even harder. I don't
want to stomp on anyone's dream, but going into debt to set up a
studio, in my opinion, is a bad choice.
KATHI LESUEUR
http://www.lesueurclaywork.co
Lis Allison on fri 4 sep 09
On Friday 04 September 2009, Ann Potter wrote:
> I spoke to a man about a space last month and I am now trying to put
> together a plan before I to go talk to someone about a start up loan
>
> I am looking for basic studio equipment:
> a good size electric kiln
> kiln shelves/posts
> kiln vent
> slab roller (thinking of a portable -- any experience with those
> anyone?)
> ware cart or sturdy shelf on wheels
> shelving
> pugmill to reclaim clay
> > sturdy work tables on wheels
I wasn't going to say anything either but since Kathi has broken the ice,
I will. First, no, do NOT get a portable slab roller. If you can't buy a
real one, use the old rolling pin and save your pennies. A bad slab
roller, and all the portable and home-made ones are bad slab rollers
(oooo, that'll rouse the do-it-your-selfers!) and will just drive you
nuts. Want to make tiles that don't warp? Get a decent, full-size slab
roller.
But a ware cart? What's wrong with some 2 x 4's and plywood? You can
easily make all the shelves and tables you need yourself. I did, and I'm
no carpenter. Pugmill? Only if you have been going for a year to two and
find you really need one. A pugmill is great, but only if you process
enough clay. For smaller operations they are more work than wedging.
And what's wrong with a bank loan? I have a little story I tell any female
would-be-potter and it is this: Two people decide to be potters. One makes
a list and goes to the bank and then builds a studio and stocks it with
everything on the list. The other one clears a little space in a corner of
the basement, borrows an old off-centre wheel, buys one box of clay, and
begs someone to fire the resulting pieces. Which one is Joe and which one
is Jill?
Actually, I have two stories. The other one is that about 10 years ago my
kiln completely packed it in. Right in the fall busy season.... right when
my piggy bank was painfully empty. I went to my bank and asked to see the
loans officer. When they fussed about that, I asked to see the manager.
When I got into his office I put a mug on his desk. He looked at it, then
at me. I said I needed a loan to buy a new kiln. He said why. I said,
because I am making mugs, my kiln has taken the count, and I need a new
one so I can go on making mugs. I left with a shiny new line of credit.
Sure, it's a risk. Just make sure it's a calculated risk.
Lis
--
Elisabeth Allison
Pine Ridge Studio
www.Pine-Ridge-Studio.blogspot.com
Des & Jan Howard on sat 5 sep 09
Lis
OK I'm roused, you tease you!
Most home-made rollers & commercial portables
are next to useless. BUT, a decent, full-size,
home-made roller can be another story.
http://www.luepottery.hwy.com.au/Images/workshop%20pics/slab%20roller/slab%=
20roller.jpg
or
http://tinyurl.com/nxvhbl
local tip bedframes, ATV packing crate shelving,
scrap water pipe, even the paint was a throw-away.
1200mm x 700mm rolling space, 75mm roller gives good
nip, 25mm max thickness, adjustable in poofteenth
increments using ply/MDF shims, 0-100kmh in...
So...nyahh!!
Des
Lis Allison wrote:
> First, no, do NOT get a portable slab roller. If you can't buy a
> real one, use the old rolling pin and save your pennies. A bad slab
> roller, and all the portable and home-made ones are bad slab rollers
> (oooo, that'll rouse the do-it-your-selfers!) and will just drive you
> nuts. Want to make tiles that don't warp? Get a decent, full-size slab
> roller.
--
Des & Jan Howard
Lue Pottery
Lue NSW
Australia
2850
02 6373 6419
www.luepottery.hwy.com.au
-32.656072 149.840624
gary navarre on sat 5 sep 09
I totally agree with Kathi there Ann,
In the '60's I made the mistake of renting a carriage house in an alley in=
Detroit cause I thought I could build a studio with no experience or equip=
ment and had to really grovel to get half my money back from the landlord. =
I don't know what I was thinking, I was on academic dismissal from Wayne St=
ate and Pitney flunked me. Whatever your rent is would be better invested i=
n going to the nearest community college with ceramics classes and practice=
selling the results in the student shows. I think we have seen about a doz=
en "studio stuff for sale" postings in the clay forums in just the last yea=
r.
All that equipment is really not necessary to make pottery you know, a sack=
of clay, a smooth stick and a stone, and a camp fire is what made some of =
the worlds most useful pots. Of course if you plan to do conceptual artsy p=
ieces it is probably a good idea to invest $200,000 for anyone important to=
take you seriously. Good luck, don't let it fool ya, and stay in there eh!
Gary Navarre
Navarre Pottery
Navarre Enterprises
Norway, Michigan, USA
http://www.youtube.com/GindaUP
http://public.fotki.com/GindaUP/
--- On Wed, 9/2/09, Ann Potter wrote:
> From: Ann Potter
> Subject: [Clayart] I am starting a studio
> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 11:38 AM
> I spoke to a man about a space last
> month and I am now trying to put
> together a plan before I to go talk to someone about a
> start up loan.
>
> I am looking for basic studio equipment:
> a good size electric kiln
> kiln shelves/posts
> kiln vent
> slab roller (thinking of a portable -- any experience with
> those anyone?)
> ware cart or sturdy shelf on wheels
> shelving
> pugmill to reclaim clay
> sturdy work tables on wheels
>
> I live in MD near Washington.
>
> Any advice on new kiln vs used?
>
> I plan to use it for my own work as well as class work
> since I plan to teach
> out of the studio as well.
>
> Thanks
>
> Ann
>
Sherron & Jim Bowen on sat 5 sep 09
One of the knock offs on the very good Brent SRC slab roller like I just
bought used but like new for $50.00 from my next door neighbor. It will do
slabs to 21 inches wide.
JB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Des & Jan Howard"
To:
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 8:26 PM
Subject: Re: I am starting a studio
> Lis
> OK I'm roused, you tease you!
> Most home-made rollers & commercial portables
> are next to useless. BUT, a decent, full-size,
> home-made roller can be another story.
> http://www.luepottery.hwy.com.au/Images/workshop%20pics/slab%20roller/sla=
b%20roller.jpg
> or
> http://tinyurl.com/nxvhbl
Snail Scott on sat 5 sep 09
> On Sep 2, 2009, at 12:38 PM, Ann Potter wrote:
>> I spoke to a man about a space last month and I am now trying to put
>> together a plan before I to go talk to someone about a start up loan.
On Sep 4, 2009, at 3:23 PM, KATHI LESUEUR wrote:
> ... Acquire
> your equipment like most of us have done, one piece at a time for
> cash... Don't go into debt to set up a studio...
I'm with Kathi on this. Unless you have a clear
business plan, a bankroll, and a track record for
this kind of work, plan to prioritize your purchases.
Let's triage your list:
A kiln is essential, and must come first. Get the
most suitable type for your intentions. Too small
is a pain and will not grow with you. too large is a
waste at first, but will be more flexible as firing needs
change day to day and year to year. Sure, it's
inefficient to fire a partly-empty kiln, but worse to
have to get a second kiln or not get stuff fired at all.
Electronic vs. manual kilns: if you will be on premises
all day most days, manual may be just fine, and it will
be cheapest and easiest to maintain. If you cannot be
there through an entire firing cycle, an electronic kiln
may be necessary. New vs. used: Kilns are basically
big toasters, and most are highly modular. i.e. most
parts can be swapped out for new ones when the fail.
This means that an old kiln can be a great choice.
Even a new kiln will eventually need new elements,
etc, just as a car needs new tires, so an older kiln
is no worse than new in most respects. (Of course,
in this analogy, the 'tires' are really the engine!) If it's
cheap enough, AND if it's the model you really want,
I'd get used. Don't settle for an inappropriate kiln
just because it's cheap, though.
Kiln furniture is obviously essential as well, and is
much harder to find used, so budget for new. If you
must save cash, remember that short posts can be
stacked to make taller ones, while taller ones are
useless for short stacking. Get plenty of shorties.
A vent is a good idea if the kiln shares the workspace,
and I'd get one with a wall-mounted motor if possible.
If the kiln is in a separate kiln room, shed or outside
the studio, then a vent is optional.
Slab roller: do you do a lot of slabwork? If so, try out
many types; personal taste is a big factor in which
models you might prefer. If you don't do lots of slabs,
then a really good rolling pin might serve both your
budget and floor space better. A full-sized slab roller
(or tabletop model) can be deferred until later.
Remember that even a tabletop one takes up table
space.
Ware carts: do you have mass quantities to move
about? Might be easier to put work on ware boards
which get carried into the kiln area as they fill, rather
than having a cart. Keep storage for drying, dried, or
bisqued work close to the kiln to reduce the need to
move it about in bulk. Rolling carts may be done
without, or at least deferred until later. If you do get
some, get the sturdiest you can find. A rickety cart is
worse than none.
Shelving: Build it, then it will fit your needs perfectly.
Shelving with slots in the sides (spaces between
2x4's) will allow you to slide ware boards right in at
any height you need. Leaving open space underneath
lets you store heavy things like clay and glaze buckets
on the floor out of the way. Purchased shelving is
seldom so suitable for our purposes.
Pugmill. Do you have that much reclaim? Production
throwers often do make that much scrap, and need to
reclaim on a big scale, but I didn't see a wheel on your
list. (Maybe you already have one.) Still, handbuilders
seldom make that much scrap, and reclaiming it the
low-tech way - slaking dry scraps and drying it on
plaster or in slings - may be perfectly adequate, and
need much less maintenance. A pugmill that doesn't
get used frequently is a waste or money, space, and
time.
Rolling tables: In general, I'm a big fan of things on
wheels. I buy the wheels separately, and put them on
whatever I wish would roll. 3" casters work well, and
can be attached to wooden tables with ease. To keep
the height where you want it, you will need to make
the legs shorter, of course. Get casters with locking
levers. Bear in mind that no wheeled table will be as
sturdy and rigid as one without wheels, unless you
keep it jammed up against a wall. Consider whether
all tables really need wheels, and whether all need to
be equally sturdy. I keep my table arrangement flexible
by having a few sturdy stationary tables, and some
hollow-core doors to lay across sawhorses. These are
easy to set up anywhere, even outside, and just stack
against a wall when I need the floor space instead.
It's easy to want everything that you are used to, and
start-up time can seem like the big chance to get
everything. It will still cost, though, even if you get a
good loan, so think about what's essential, what's
nice, and what is maybe more trouble (or cost) than
it's worth.
-Snail
Shaw Pottery on sat 5 sep 09
Hi Ann,
Have you done any research about studios in your area... how many,
how many are teaching studios, where you will draw your students
from, galleries, art shows, retail outlets for your ware? Or are you
making pottery just for pleasure, not for sale?
Before you invest in equipment, I would talk to an expert about the
loan. I can't remember the group, but there is one that has retired
execs from different fields who will help you do the research for
little or nothing.
Will you be able to buy your clay and supplies locally? If so, the
supply house probably has some very good information on where you
could get your equipment at a decent price. Perhaps even a bulletin
board with some things for sale.
The bank will also want to know about your teaching experience. How
many years, students, classes have you taught.
In other words, there is a lot of groundwork that should be done
before you invest money in a new venture.
"Starving Artist" is not just a name, it's a category... perhaps one
that should be in the US Census.
Rita ;-)
>I spoke to a man about a space last month and I am now trying to put
>together a plan before I to go talk to someone about a start up loan.
>
>I am looking for basic studio equipment:
>a good size electric kiln
>kiln shelves/posts
>kiln vent
>slab roller (thinking of a portable -- any experience with those anyone?)
>ware cart or sturdy shelf on wheels
>shelving
>pugmill to reclaim clay
>sturdy work tables on wheels
>
>I live in MD near Washington.
>
>Any advice on new kiln vs used?
>
>I plan to use it for my own work as well as class work since I plan to tea=
ch
>out of the studio as well.
>
>Thanks
>
>Ann
Snail Scott on sat 5 sep 09
On Sep 5, 2009, at 12:37 PM, Shaw Pottery wrote:
> ...I can't remember the group, but there is one that has retired
> execs from different fields who will help you do the research for
> little or nothing...
SCORE: Service Corps of Retired Executives.
Not sure how much they'd know about clay, but
possibly a lot about setting up a small business.
-Snail
Nancy Guido on sat 5 sep 09
I have been trying to open a studio.=3DC2=3DA0=3DC2=3DA0=3DC2=3DA0 Here are=
some things=3D
I have run up against in the suburbs of Detroit:=3D20
First, make sure you have a business plan, then g o talk to the banker to s=
=3D
ee what they require.=3D20
In order to get a loan you must have collateral.=3DC2=3DA0 These days, some=
ban=3D
ks will not take property=3DC2=3DA0 as collateral .=3DC2=3DA0 You must have=
cash as=3D
collateral.=3DC2=3DA0=3D20
If you find a space to rent, you need to make sure it is zoned properly .=
=3D
=3DC2=3DA0 Once you do that, you have to check with the building inspector =
to s=3D
ee what they require .=3DC2=3DA0 It could be they require as little as a sk=
etch=3D
drawing (which is nice).=3DC2=3DA0 However, they could require sealed arch=
itec=3D
tural drawings.=3DC2=3DA0 Then things start to get expensive.=3DC2=3DA0=3D2=
0
If you don't check first =3DC2=3DA0and you sign the lease, they can come in=
and=3D
shut you down and you will still be responsible for the lease.=3DC2=3DA0=
=3D20
So, check with your banker.=3DC2=3DA0 See if you can secure a loan.=3DC2=3D=
A0 Then =3D
go find your space, check the zoning and the check with the building inspec=
=3D
tor before you sign the=3DC2=3DA0the lease.=3D20
nancy g.=3D20
Jess McKenzie on sat 5 sep 09
Yes!
Check out the Small Business Admin:
http://www.sba.gov/
I took their several-day seminar years ago. They convinced me
*not* to go into a small business. So I kept my government
job ... ~jess
Date sent: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 14:33:24 -0500
Send reply to: Snail Scott
From: Snail Scott
Subject: Re: I am starting a studio
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
[ Double-click this line for list subscription options ]
On Sep 5, 2009, at 12:37 PM, Shaw Pottery wrote:
> ...I can't remember the group, but there is one that has retired
> execs from different fields who will help you do the research for
> little or nothing...
SCORE: Service Corps of Retired Executives.
Not sure how much they'd know about clay, but
possibly a lot about setting up a small business.
-Snail
Kelly Savino on tue 8 sep 09
1.) Stay out of debt by starting with what you already have, and buying new=
equipment as sales of your work/teaching can pay for it. I had a freebie w=
ebsite until I sold enough work from it to upgrade. I made do and made my o=
wn everything until I a turning point one year when I needed to spend down =
my income at tax time by buying equipment.
2.) Be patient. Keep your ear to the ground for deals and bargains on used =
equipment. Learn how to fix things: a printable schematic and a call to the=
manufacturer can walk you through many repairs and upgrades. Schools, guil=
ds and art centers are way more likely to buy the big sexy expensive new (k=
iln, slab roller, etc.) than to try to repair the current one, and the old =
ones get auctioned or handed off for peanuts. Often the old ones, well main=
tained, last longer than the new ones in the long run. I've seen kilns sold=
because nobody knew they needed new elements, or wheels sold when a screwd=
river adjustment inside the pedal would have made it good as new. Sign up a=
t potterbarter at yahoogroups.com and ask around for what you need. I got t=
o do the smug dance when Tony C. predicted I'd never find a used pugmill...=
I got one for under $300 in a few days time from potterbarter.
3.) Practical considerations should come before aesthetics. Mel's right -- =
at the college where I teach, open ductwork means we shout over HVAC noise.=
.. sealed windows mean no air can enter the studio, rendering the already i=
neffective hood vent over the kilns entirely useless. A closed cinderblock =
room means kilns overheat and go ERR way below temp... and using the clay m=
ixer would be foolhardy at best. Even the shop vac stirs dangerous levels o=
f dust. And the other teacher -- in answer to the inability of kilns to fir=
e to temp without an ERR message -- went to low fire lead glazes. (Yikes.) =
A spray booth was never hooked up to ventilation of any sort and was purely=
decorative. Better a first floor studio in a barn than a second floor one =
with no freight elevator in a fancy, arty, Fine and Performing Arts buildin=
g. Better a hose-able floor with a drain than an attractive pattern.
4.) You don't need that much stuff, really. When I was getting ready to sta=
rt my MFA I packed a canvas tool bag and a big tackle box of all my awesome=
NCECA purchases and a lifetime of accumulated gadgets. Within a month, I l=
eft the house with only a thin metal rib in my back pocket, my studio key a=
nd a water bottle. There was always a wire and needle tool lying around som=
ewhere to use. Or I'd just steal Patrick's ;0)
5.) Think long term. When something becomes available, pick it up, even if =
you don't know how to fix or use it yet. Hobbyists (many elderly women) oft=
en sell kilns used for hobby ceramics or doll making, which have not had ma=
ny high firings (though they may be contaminated with lead.) Give a fair pr=
ice but be aware of how to help decontaminate (see the archives). I have ac=
cumulated way too many electric kilns over the years: one I hauled home fro=
m an old house tagged for demolition, in mid winter, on a sled. It's a raku=
kiln now. Three are up and running in good working order, three more tucke=
d away for.. I dunno. I'll know some day.
Start small. When my babies were little I couldn't get out to the unheated =
studio and potted in a tarp-lined linen closet, just room for my wheel, a s=
tool and a bucket with shelves overhead. I made enough to upgrade my websit=
e that year.
Debt is not your friend. Especially now, when jobs can go poof without warn=
ing. It happened at my house almost a year ago and we're grateful, daily, t=
hat we've always lived (for the most part) within our means.
Yours
Kelly in Ohio
queen of scrounge
http://www.primalpotter.com (website)
http://primalmommy.wordpress.com (blog)
http://www.primalpotter.etsy.com (store)
Lee Love on tue 8 sep 09
When I was getting ready to go to Japan to study at a Zen Monastery
back in 1982, I wrote to a teacher here in Minneapolis, Dainin
katagiri Roshi. I told him I was seeking advice about studying in
Japan. He told me, "Your life is in the middle of confusion. You
are trying to leap a broad stream in a single bound, while ignoring
the stepping stones at our feet."
I've always taken that advice to heart. Your journey
always begins with the first step.
I agree with Kelly: Start with what you got. I bought a
Shimpo Gold wheel as a first wheel because it was compact and easier
to move than most. I first set up in the Kitchen, then I moved to
the front porch when the weather allowed. When it got cold, I moved
to the basement. Here, almost 20 years later, I started in the
basement and the patio and am converting the garage into a studio.
--
Lee Love, Minneapolis
"The tea ceremony bowl is the ceramic equivalent of a sonnet: a
small-scale, seemingly constricted form that challenges the artist to
go beyond mere technical virtuosity and find an approach that both
satisfies and transcends the conventions." -- Rob Sliberman
full essay: http://togeika.multiply.com/journal/item/273/
Ann Potter on tue 8 sep 09
I will reply to you as I did to her. I have an MFA in ceramics I have bee=
=3D
n
teaching ceramics in a community studio, and in public and private school=
=3D
s
for more then 15 years I am not a potter I am a sculptor, I work large an=
=3D
d
need space to work. It is time for me at 47 years of age to set out on my=
=3D
own and do what I am trained to do and can do well. I believe that with a=
=3D
well thought out business plan and hard work I can and will make this a
success, it won't be easy, I will loose some money and make some mistakes=
=3D
but I know that if I keep working I can make it a success. All I wanted t=
=3D
o
know was if I had thought of the basics, I have no intention of buying al=
=3D
l
new equipment, I plan on using second hand furniture and building things =
=3D
on
my own. If I fail well I will learn and I won't be an old woman who didn'=
=3D
t
make art because I let people scare me from taking a chance. Thanks for t=
=3D
he
comments though.
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