Kelly Savino on wed 22 jul 09
As Jeff and I are both gainfully under-employed in Toledo, and Big Possibil=
ities elsewhere have fallen through, we have decided to stay put. That mean=
s we are at the point of pouring a slab for the catenary arch soda kiln I'm=
going to build at my parents'cottage in Michigan.
They have, by the road high on the hill above their cottage, an enormous pr=
opane tank. It once ran the furnace, grill, dryer and auto-lighter on their=
fireplace.
Those functions are now filled by a natural gas line, and the propane tank =
stands empty. My folks were going to have it hauled away, but I asked them =
to wait -- it seems ideal for me to fill that tank with my own pot money an=
d use it to fire the kiln. It seems way too big to freeze up like the small=
er tanks at EMU used to do.
There is, however, a natural gas line available as well. I haven't purchase=
d burners yet, and thought I should check with the collective clayart brain=
before making a choice.
I wonder, too, who to ask to run the lines once I do make a choice. Gas/pro=
pane company guys? Will they do it, or is it one of those "better to get fo=
rgiveness" things?
Thanks in advance.
Kelly in Ohio
having a good summer with everyone home... studio remodel almost done, less=
on/workshop schedule ready to post, raspberries ripe, and four new white pi=
geons in the dovecote...
http://www.primalpotter.com
KATHI LESUEUR on thu 23 jul 09
On Jul 22, 2009, at 9:19 PM, Kelly Savino wrote:
> ........ I'm going to build at my parents'cottage in Michigan.
>
> They have, by the road high on the hill above their cottage, an
> enormous propane tank. It once ran the furnace, grill, dryer and
> auto-lighter on their fireplace.....
>
> I wonder, too, who to ask to run the lines once I do make a choice.
> Gas/propane company guys? Will they do it, or is it one of those
> "better to get forgiveness" things?>>>
Natural gas, if only for the safety. Propane is heavier than air. If
you have a leak the gas will hover. Natural gas is lighter than air.
If you have a leak the gas will dissipate. Beyond that, you never run
out of natural gas and it never freezes up. As for who will run the
line, it's easy to do. Black pipe. 1 1/2", make sure all connectors
are tight. Make sure you have enough pressure. You may need a bigger
meter. Mine is 100,000 btu's. The line runs about 75 feet from meter
to kiln.
KATHI LESUEUR
http://www.lesueurclaywork.com
>
Vince Pitelka on thu 23 jul 09
Kelly wrote:
"Those functions are now filled by a natural gas line, and the propane =3D
tank stands empty. My folks were going to have it hauled away, but I =3D
asked them to wait -- it seems ideal for me to fill that tank with my =3D
own pot money and use it to fire the kiln. It seems way too big to =3D
freeze up like the smaller tanks at EMU used to do.
There is, however, a natural gas line available as well. I haven't =3D
purchased burners yet, and thought I should check with the collective =3D
clayart brain before making a choice.
I wonder, too, who to ask to run the lines once I do make a choice. =3D
Gas/propane company guys? Will they do it, or is it one of those "better =
=3D
to get forgiveness" things?"
Kelly -=3D20
I have the impression you are in an urban or semi-urban area, and I see =3D
no reason to install a propane tank when natural gas is available. You =3D
need to do some more research with the gas company and the propane =3D
company and see if there is any particular advantage to one or the other =
=3D
in consideration of local building codes and restrictions. But in =3D
general, the installation would be cleaner and more space-efficient with =
=3D
natural gas, and the fuel costs will be lower. In an urban area where =3D
natural gas is available, there may even be codes preventing you from =3D
installing a propane tank. As you know, in a fire they turn into a =3D
bomb.
Normally you run the gas lines yourself, but the hookup to the meter is =3D
done by the gas company. Do you already have a gas meter on the =3D
property? How far is it from the kiln? How big is it? Our gas meter =3D
in Blue Lake, CA was at the far end of the property from the pottery =3D
studio, and far too small to supply the needs of a gas kiln. If your =3D
meter is close to the kiln, and if it is only a small kiln, then the =3D
existing meter might suffice. The gas company can tell you that. =3D
Generally, if there is some distance to the kiln, they would either =3D
install a larger meter, or install a second one closer to the kiln.
For our needs in Blue Lake, the gas company installed a large meter and =3D
regulator right outside my studio. I ran the lines from the kiln (2" =3D
black-iron pipe, including a section of underground plastic-coated =3D
black-iron) to the pipe that came up out of the ground next to the =3D
meter. The gas company came and hooked up their pressure gauge and =3D
pressure-tested my work, and then made the connection to the meter. =3D
They initially set the regulator to the standard household 7 WCI (water =3D
column inches), but when I had trouble even reaching bisque temperature =3D
in the 100-cubic-foot car kiln, they came back and raised the pressure =3D
to 11 WCI, and then I was able to get to cone 10 in seven hours from =3D
cold if I wanted to. It is worth mentioning that the natural gas =3D
regulators installed in such situations are sealed units and are not =3D
customer-adjustable - the adjustments must be done by the gas company.
I know that I have told this story before on Clayart, but it is worth =3D
repeating. When the gas technicians from PG&E saw the size, shape, and =3D
workmanship of the kiln for the first time (you can see several views of =
=3D
the kiln at =3D
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/gallery/railroad%20stoneware/railroad_sto=
=3D
neware.htm), one of them said "Well, if the pottery doesn't work out, =3D
you can always do custom cremations." I think he was kidding, but I'm =3D
not sure.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
James Freeman on thu 23 jul 09
Kelly...
If you have the choice, natural gas versus propane is pretty much a
no-brainer. Natural gas is less than half the cost per BTU versus
propane. Here is the math:
Propane is sold by the gallon. Today's price (just checked) is $1.69
per gallon. One gallon of propane yields approximately 91,690 BTUs.
It would therefore require 10.906 gallons of propane to produce 1
million BTUs (1,000,000 / 91,690), at a cost of $18.43 (10.906 gallons
x $1.69).
Natural gas is sold by the cubic foot. Today's price (just checked)
is $.643 per 100 cubic feet for the gas plus $.192 per 100 cubic feet
for distribution charges, or a total of $.835 per 100 cubic feet. One
cubic foot yields approximately 1000 BTUs. It would therefore require
1000 cubic feet of natural gas to produce 1 million BTUs (1,000,000 /
1000), at a cost of $8.35 (1,000 cubic feet x $.835 / 100).
The gas company runs the line from their main to your meter. You can
pay them to do the piping from the meter to your appliance, you can
have a plumber do so, or you can do so yourself. Gas piping requires
pressure testing. I hooked my piping to an air compressor, ran it up
to 100 PSI (about 50 times higher than the actual gas pressure that
will be in the pipe), then checked every connection with soapy water
(look for bubbles). If you don't trust yourself, you can pay the gas
company to pressure test for you. Talk to your local gas company.
They are eager to help, even with technical questions. They sent an
engineer out to my studio at no charge to figure out what size line to
run to the meter, and to locate and size the meter.
Have fun.
...James
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I
should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/clayart/
On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 9:19 PM, Kelly
Savino wrote:
>
> I wonder, too, who to ask to run the lines once I do make a choice. Gas/p=
ropane company guys? Will they do it, or is it one of those "better to get =
forgiveness" things?
>
Kelly Savino on thu 23 jul 09
http://www.primalpotter.com
--- vpitelka@dtccom.net wrote:
Kelly -
I have the impression you are in an urban or semi-urban area, and I see no =
reason to install a propane tank when natural gas is available.
Vince --
The cottage is an hour north of me, in rural Michigan. The propane tank has=
been installed for years and filled periodically by the company, and pipes=
alreadyy run down the hill to the cottage and out to the grill. Same for n=
atural gas -- already running into the building and the outdoor bbq grill, =
which is not far from the place I would like to put the kiln. It's fairly c=
lose to the back of the cottage, 10 or 15 feet, but I can't see any reason =
that a soda kiln would be a fire hazard. Correct me if I am wrong... no par=
ticles leave the chimney, no ash or wood involved. There will be a metal ro=
of, and a stockade fence on the cottage side of the kiln. The slab is not y=
et poureed so it's not too late to change plans!
It would be handy for me to be able to budget and plan based on a set amoun=
t in the propane tank, as I will likely fire only 4 or 5 times a year -- bu=
t I suppose I could just figure the difference between my parent's normal n=
atural gas bill and the extra used when I fire, and plan/pay that way.
I don't want to do anything that might interfere with their use of the util=
ity or create any kind of risk to their property, so I really want to get t=
his right.
I will definitely compare fuel costs and check with both companies. I wonde=
r if it's possible for me to trench and install lines, and then not fill in=
the trenches until after the company has come to test?
Thanks for taking the time!
Yours
Kelly
| |
|
