Tom at Hutchtel.net on wed 24 jun 09
Dawn's questions show she's making a living from it, or planning to. Her
questions are too good, too serious and right on.
>>>----- Original Message -----
From: "Dawn Kleinman"
Subject: Re: Retail Art Fairs
Thank you for your insight.>>>
I forgot to say in my last post, that the first question you have to ask
before making business decisions is, what do you want from your work in
clay....a living?...some extra cash?....the ability to offset clay habit
costs? (if you deduct them, you have to make a profit occasionally)...count
shows as vacations?...whatever, it's up to you. But it will color your
decisions as to how far you travel, how many pots you carry, what your pric=
e
points are, etc. Most of my advice is from the perspective of making a
living from clay.
>>>Taking a critical look at what I have - 95% of my work is functional. I
think that's good.<<<
Probably, at least right now. From what I'm hearing, and what we're seeing
in the
Gallery, functional still sells-decorative has dropped off except in the
very high end specialized galleries.
>>My colors are neutral mostly. I think that's good.<<<
We have the advantage of me doing the wet clay work, Betsy the glazing. I
harp regularly that she uses way too many glazes (currently maybe 15
different ones). But it gives us a bit of something in every
color...yellow, blue, Temmoku, Iron red (rare), browns, red (mostly as
accent), white, ...we have to limit what we take to shows or put on the web=
.
Too many choices can kill sales. Last show I saw a lot of the spodumene
orange/browns selling.
>>>>I make conversation with booth customers.<<<
This is your market research.
>>>> Tell them to look at my website,<<<< I avoid talking about website
>>>> except as a last resort as they can use this to avoid buying right now=
.
>>>> (I'm not at all sure about this.) We have a bag stuffer that tries to
>>>> direct them to the web, but few follow-up, and less buy.
>>>concerned when they tell me they take a clay class and we talk about
practicing and such.<<<
We highly recommend this when someone says their thinking about it. They
will learn a lot about what they are buying and how hard it is to do well.
>>>Also, a while back someone posted a note about how to figure out how muc=
h
>>>to
charge. Came down to a mug being about $12.<<<
In general, in the market, mugs are going for $18 to $24 and higher. We
started out much cheaper than our current $20, but they were semi-lousy
mugs. I cringe when I see some of these things in people's homes. But they
love them.
>>> I can throw about 10 lotion pumps in 1 hour - not
counting, trimming, firing, glazing, firing, and everything else.<<<< (All
the stuff that actually adds up.) Just for grins we did the exercise of
looking at "inputs" per pot. (It's an agricultural concept and we're in ag
country). Take total expenses, clay, other materials, transportation,
insurance, fuel/electricity, rent/mortgage...no labor. These are
essentially fixed expenses (except clay, fuel, materials) and then divide
the total by the number of pots. For us it equals about $11 per
pot...without labor. Obviously the big pots subsidize the mugs.
>>>>Yes, I think I am on the right track. I am just really jealous of those
>>>>that
actually make 10 x their booth fee. Dr House says "Everyone lies".<<<<
When I say 10x entry fee, I'm talking the best show(s), and as I noted as
did Chris, it's almost impossible in today's economy. So what we do to
offset the loss of income is try new and more shows. Expenses go up, but i=
f
we choose carefully, we generally haven't gotten burned.
Yes, people lie about sales, but I'll be glad to send you the cash register
tape. It doesn't help you for me to lie about sales. And it doesn't do yo=
u
any good for me to just say it was a great, or lousy, show. If I don't giv=
e
you actual numbers, you really learn nothing. No basis for judging. With
total numbers, you can go to our website, judge the pots, check the price
points and make some comparison.
Show rule no.5 when people are paying with cash, it won't be a great show.
Show rule no. 17 you really need those multi-pot $200 sales to have a great
show.
Tom Wirt
Hutchinson, MN
twirt@hutchtel.net
www.claycoyote.com
Dawn Kleinman on wed 24 jun 09
I am not really saying that you or anyone is lying but it is just hard for
me to fathom 10x for a show. I guess I am not there yet.
Yes, this is my only income. I need to make decisions, hard intelligent
decisions. I like doing the shows. I need to pick them based on real facts
not emotional facts. I appreciate the imput on weather the show is a music
festival, and ooh they have art too. Or if it is a fund raiser, ooh and the=
y
have art too. That has sunk in the most.
What you said about not really telling them about the website unless you
have to - That is an excellent point. I cant tell you how many times someon=
e
has said something to the effect of "Well, I can look at the site and then
email you with an order". I need to create an urgency on their part. Buy th=
e
piece now or it will be gone.
Your advise has been spinning in my head.
I need more inventory. Cant sell what I dont have.
I need to raise my prices. And stop with the low self esteem and whining
that I am not good enough or that maybe nobody will buy if the prices are
too high.
I am capable of making some really nice pieces that are quite substantial
and worth the big bucks. I need to make some and give people a chance to se=
e
what I am about an buy them. They cant buy what I dont have.
I do everything myself. Everything. I am not complaining, it just takes so
damn long to do every freakin step needed to finally pack up a piece.
At least I have good music in the studio.
My goal is to make enough consistent money with what I love to do. I cant
tell you how many different kinds of jobs I have had or have been fired
from. Hated them ALL. And didnt really make much money or have any
satisfaction.
Im not starving so I must be doing something right. In my opinion, just not
enough. Im workin on it
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 10:24 AM, Tom at Hutchtel.net w=
rote:
> Dawn's questions show she's making a living from it, or planning to. Her
> questions are too good, too serious and right on.
>
>
>
> >>>----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dawn Kleinman"
> Subject: Re: Retail Art Fairs
>
> Thank you for your insight.>>>
>
> I forgot to say in my last post, that the first question you have to ask
> before making business decisions is, what do you want from your work in
> clay....a living?...some extra cash?....the ability to offset clay habit
> costs? (if you deduct them, you have to make a profit occasionally)...cou=
nt
> shows as vacations?...whatever, it's up to you. But it will color your
> decisions as to how far you travel, how many pots you carry, what your
> price
> points are, etc. Most of my advice is from the perspective of making a
> living from clay.
>
> >>>Taking a critical look at what I have - 95% of my work is functional. =
I
> think that's good.<<<
>
> Probably, at least right now. From what I'm hearing, and what we're seei=
ng
> in the
> Gallery, functional still sells-decorative has dropped off except in the
> very high end specialized galleries.
>
> >>My colors are neutral mostly. I think that's good.<<<
>
> We have the advantage of me doing the wet clay work, Betsy the glazing. =
I
> harp regularly that she uses way too many glazes (currently maybe 15
> different ones). But it gives us a bit of something in every
> color...yellow, blue, Temmoku, Iron red (rare), browns, red (mostly as
> accent), white, ...we have to limit what we take to shows or put on the
> web.
> Too many choices can kill sales. Last show I saw a lot of the spodumene
> orange/browns selling.
>
>
> >>>>I make conversation with booth customers.<<<
> This is your market research.
> >>>> Tell them to look at my website,<<<< I avoid talking about website
> >>>> except as a last resort as they can use this to avoid buying right
> now.
> >>>> (I'm not at all sure about this.) We have a bag stuffer that tries =
to
> >>>> direct them to the web, but few follow-up, and less buy.
>
> >>>concerned when they tell me they take a clay class and we talk about
> practicing and such.<<<
> We highly recommend this when someone says their thinking about it. They
> will learn a lot about what they are buying and how hard it is to do well=
.
>
> >>>Also, a while back someone posted a note about how to figure out how
> much
> >>>to
> charge. Came down to a mug being about $12.<<<
>
> In general, in the market, mugs are going for $18 to $24 and higher. We
> started out much cheaper than our current $20, but they were semi-lousy
> mugs. I cringe when I see some of these things in people's homes. But th=
ey
> love them.
>
> >>> I can throw about 10 lotion pumps in 1 hour - not
> counting, trimming, firing, glazing, firing, and everything else.<<<< (A=
ll
> the stuff that actually adds up.) Just for grins we did the exercise of
> looking at "inputs" per pot. (It's an agricultural concept and we're in =
ag
> country). Take total expenses, clay, other materials, transportation,
> insurance, fuel/electricity, rent/mortgage...no labor. These are
> essentially fixed expenses (except clay, fuel, materials) and then divide
> the total by the number of pots. For us it equals about $11 per
> pot...without labor. Obviously the big pots subsidize the mugs.
>
> >>>>Yes, I think I am on the right track. I am just really jealous of tho=
se
> >>>>that
> actually make 10 x their booth fee. Dr House says "Everyone lies".<<<<
>
> When I say 10x entry fee, I'm talking the best show(s), and as I noted as
> did Chris, it's almost impossible in today's economy. So what we do to
> offset the loss of income is try new and more shows. Expenses go up, but
> if
> we choose carefully, we generally haven't gotten burned.
> Yes, people lie about sales, but I'll be glad to send you the cash regist=
er
> tape. It doesn't help you for me to lie about sales. And it doesn't do
> you
> any good for me to just say it was a great, or lousy, show. If I don't
> give
> you actual numbers, you really learn nothing. No basis for judging. Wit=
h
> total numbers, you can go to our website, judge the pots, check the price
> points and make some comparison.
> Show rule no.5 when people are paying with cash, it won't be a great show=
.
> Show rule no. 17 you really need those multi-pot $200 sales to have a gre=
at
> show.
>
>
> Tom Wirt
> Hutchinson, MN
> twirt@hutchtel.net
> www.claycoyote.com
>
>
--
www.DawnPottery.home.comcast.net
www.DawnPottery.etsy.com
Mea Rhee on wed 24 jun 09
I really think it is a waste of time to reference the eighties and early =
=3D
nineties to gauge a=3D20
"good show." Please let's stick to the present day.
We are in some very unusual and troubled economic times. Keep that in min=
=3D
d this year=3D20
when deciding if you had a "good show."
Setting your own personal standards for success is a baseline requirement=
=3D
, regardless of=3D20
the economy or your personal status as a potter. Judge for yourself wheth=
=3D
er you are doing=3D20
well or not. Don't compare yourself to other people or other decades. I d=
=3D
on't think anyone=3D20
should call themselves a "professional" until they have gotten the knack =
=3D
of this.=3D20
The fee amount does not correlate to show worthiness. Every show is run d=
=3D
ifferently and=3D20
should be judged individually.
My formula for a worthwhile show ... one where profit is not the motive o=
=3D
f the show=3D20
organizers, but still there are paid professional event planners putting =
=3D
it together. In other=3D20
words, avoid shows that are run for profit, and those run by volunteers.=3D=
20=3D
Mea
Lis Allison on wed 24 jun 09
On Wednesday 24 June 2009 10:49, Dawn Kleinman wrote:
> I need to raise my prices. And stop with the low self esteem and
> whining that I am not good enough or that maybe nobody will buy if the
> prices are too high.
I have found that there are two guidelines about pricing for functional
items that have been consistent for me for years. They are so simple they
almost don't bear saying, but just in case, here goes.
One, if an item sells too quickly, it is under-priced. If I have 12 berry
bowls and they all sell in the first hour, they were too cheap. I'll make
the next 12 more expensive.
Two, if people look at something, touch it, and put it back, it is too
expensive. If you see this happening to some item several times, drop the
price until they buy it. A piece may not move at $20 but will sell at
$18. People have a sort of 'reasonable cost' internalized for most
items. In practice this may mean that you don't make much on an item like
a mug which is actually a lot of work, but you'll make it up on a salad
bowl which, while less work, may command a larger price. People do think
bigger pieces 'should' cost more.
Cheers,
Lis
--
Elisabeth Allison
Pine Ridge Studio
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