mel jacobson on thu 10 sep 09
art has no value/monetary/ until it is sold.
i can say that my paintings are worth $50,000.00. my choice.
but, if i never sell a painting for that price, what is it worth?
\it sits on my easel. it has no value, except to me.
if you sell twenty paintings a year at $5,000 each, they have
value. you are making a living at that rate.
if you have 50 pots on your shelf, or in boxes./unsold/..you have already
paid for them, time, energy, storage, lights and heat.
you get nothing in return. that is called loss.
so, if you sell them for 5 bucks each, well you just made expenses.
that would be $250 for those that cannot do simple math.
is your ego hurt? probably. did you cover your expenses? yes.
but, money, profit/loss has to be separate from your ego.
it is business.
artists are often accused of having no sense. they tie up soul, feelings,
ego with simple business ideas. not a good idea.
it you have no intention of making any money at your art, or have others
to pay your bills...god bless you. it would be envious and wonderful.
but, most that enter the world of craft and art have to pay bills some/how,
some way.
i look at my art and craft as a profession. i make money, and i do
not expect to have loss. i cannot afford to lose money at what i do.
it is too hard, too much work and the gas and light company do not
give a shit what profession i am, or what my `soul` thinks..they
want their money. and get it.
continental clay asks for my credit card when i buy clay and glaze
materials. i give it to them...i turn that clay into money.
i enjoy my work, i love my research and writing. i do not expect
to give it away.
i have done several shows and public exhibits lately. i do it for
public relations, and to get new names for my mailing list. shows
are hard work...but, worth the time if you get new customers.
i sold a great deal of work at my 50 show, but would have made a lot
more money if i had had that show at my studio. but, it was worth it
for me. 80 new names.
some people get very nervous, upset when we talk about money and
profit. that is too bad. i just don't expect others to carry my water,
or pay my bills. i am rather pissy that way.
if you are not paying your way, someone else has to do it.
just the way it works.
so,
i have always been a strong supporter of full time potters on this list.
they work hard, make ends meet, and are a credit to the profession.
i do everything in my power to help them whenever i can. clayart has
been a great asset to potters. information, clear thinking and opinion.
as i say...you can get just anything you need on this list...in minutes.
and that is turned into time well spent, problems solved without effort,
and it may even help you turn a small profit.
mel
from: minnetonka, mn
website: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
clayart link: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
new book: http://www.21stcenturykilns.com
KATHI LESUEUR on thu 10 sep 09
On Sep 10, 2009, at 1:49 PM, mel jacobson wrote:
> art has no value/monetary/ until it is sold.
>
> i can say that my paintings are worth $50,000.00. my choice.
> but, if i never sell a painting for that price, what is it worth?
> \it sits on my easel. it has no value, except to me.
>
> if you sell twenty paintings a year at $5,000 each, they have
> value. you are making a living at that rate.
>
> if you have 50 pots on your shelf, or in boxes./unsold/..you have
> already
> paid for them, time, energy, storage, lights and heat.
> you get nothing in return. that is called loss.
>
> so, if you sell them for 5 bucks each, well you just made expenses.
> that would be $250 for those that cannot do simple math.
> is your ego hurt? probably. did you cover your expenses? yes.>>
Mel,
I totally agree with you on this price thing. I have a friend who is
always ragging on me about my prices. She looks at other booths and
tells me that they are getting lots more for their pots than I do. I
told her to stand outside of one of those booths for an hour and tell
me how much they sold. Do it during the peak selling hours of the
show. Then come back and tell me that they are "getting" much more.
Just because a mug is offered at $50 doesn't mean that they are
selling at $50. I've always found that there are far more people with
$20-$50 to spend than those that have $200-$500 to spend. I sell to
that lower market. People buy over and over from me. Value they say.
A reasonable price for my product. One which the average person can
afford. I do have more expensive pieces for sale. They take more
time, are more complicated, and fall into that one-of-a-kind
category. But, I make a living on the everyday pot that people use.
KATHI LESUEUR
http://www.lesueurclaywork.com
Snail Scott on sun 13 sep 09
On Sep 11, 2009, at 1:05 PM, Carole Fox wrote:
> I've been on Clayart long enough to have learned that you shouldn't
> charge different prices for the same work. I would just really LIKE to
> be able to charge less to the common folk than to richer folk!
Quite a few people make a sport out of bargain
hunting, and this often means that people who
saw your work in a gallery (and could afford it
there) may still seek out your studio to buy
directly, on the cheap. This undercuts your
gallery and you may not even know when it's
happening, since 'richer folk' often look pretty
much like everyone else.
One way of dealing with this is to sell two
different bodies of work in those two types
of venue. High-end and one-off pieces in
the galleries, and more basic work in the
studio, for instance. If you can't compare
the work directly, apples to apples, then
is is easier to justify different prices. You
simply have two visibly different product
lines: gallery and studio.
Another way to deal with this could be
special 'studio-only' deals. Not lower prices,
per se, but a bonus item or some other
special for your 'common folk' at the studio
sales. A free small vase with every four
mugs, or a spoon rest with each teapot?
Or non-pottery bonuses: some recipe cards
with each casserole, a white-painted flat
pressboard 'pedestal' with each small
sculpture. Maybe a frequent-buyer plan -
spend $100 (all at once or over time) and
get a free bowl. You can make your work
a better value for your studio customers
('common folk' or otherwise) without
devaluing the gallery work.
-Snail
Lee Love on sun 13 sep 09
In Japan, when you make a big purchase, the merchant often
gives you a little gift. It is called "service." At one potter's
studio I visited in Kyushu, he had a basket of saucers at the door,
and as we were leaving, he asked us to pick one to take with us.
--
Lee Love, Minneapolis
"The tea ceremony bowl is the ceramic equivalent of a sonnet: a
small-scale, seemingly constricted form that challenges the artist to
go beyond mere technical virtuosity and find an approach that both
satisfies and transcends the conventions." -- Rob Sliberman
full essay: http://togeika.multiply.com/journal/item/273/
Vince Pitelka on sun 13 sep 09
Carole Fox wrote:
"I've been on Clayart long enough to have learned that you shouldn't charge
different prices for the same work. I would just really LIKE to be able to
charge less to the common folk than to richer folk!"
Carole -
When I was a full-time studio potter in Northern California, much of our
income came from two annual studio sales in our home, one in December and
one in May, and most of the rest came from selling wholesale (half of
retail) and consignment, with just a few craft shows. I support a level of
professionalism that mandates that you charge the same retail prices
everywhere for your firsts - for your best work. But we wanted to give
price breaks to the local people who came to our studio sales, as a favor t=
o
them, and because even at a reduced retail price we made a lot more per
piece than when selling wholesale or consignment. We just became very
creative about reasons for making something a bargain or a second and
reducing the price. Any potter can knock down the price on leftovers, odd
pieces, and seconds without violating the agreement to sell things for the
same price everywhere. At our studio sales, lots of people bought items
that they really wanted for full retail price, but a large part of our sale=
s
gallery was devoted to bargains and seconds, and those things just flew off
the shelves. People LOVE bargains, and after purchasing a few of those
pieces they were also likely to also buy some items for full retail price.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
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