Philip Poburka on thu 20 aug 09
Hi Fred, all...
I've always thought an Eddy Current Motor would be ideal for the Potter's
Wheel.
That, or, Hydraulic...
Infinite Speed selection, full Torque from anything above 'Zero' to whateve=
r
decided max RPM...and 'silent'...no 'shudder'...and, very very few moving
parts.
If I was going to build 'Wheels', they'd be of these sort...
Phil
Lv
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fredrick Paget"
>I have a Jepson Pro-station wheel, unfortunatly no longer made.
>
> Jepson bought the best motor controller he could find for the motor.
> It will creep very slow with plenty of torque and revs up to 200 rpm
> at the top speed, Jepson is a production potter and he likes to trim
> bottoms real fast when the tool is near the center.
>
> I realy don;t use the max speed except when I use a diamond lap for
> wet grinding bottoms.
>
> Jepson sternly warned me not to mess with the speed settings on the
> controler and I don't know how because there are about six
> potentiometers on the control board for all sorts of things and he
> wouldn't tell me how to set the speed. It is good the way it is so I
> don't worry.
>
> Fred Paget
Ric Swenson on fri 21 aug 09
Fred=3D2C
=3D20
=3D20
et al
=3D20
=3D20
The Brent CXC...best wheel ever made... IMHO. Two- 4 vee belts for drive...=
=3D
almost noiseless. Cool driving....like my 356 porche....or the 124 Fiat spo=
=3D
rt spider....smooth .( I have owned 43 cars in my lifetime and enjoy compar=
=3D
ing life... to driving....)
=3D20
=3D20
=3D20
speed control....from centering.... fast.... to slower and slower for finis=
=3D
hing lips....ultimate foot control. True torque. Light on the knees...and =
=3D
legs...
=3D20
=3D20
I have used treadle Koppensteins=3D2C Lockerbies kick... oye ve ! and uf=
f =3D
da! ( we had 6 Kloppensteins at UAA (University of Alaska at Anchor=
=3D
age) in the 1970s) we also had a lot of Shimpos....I hated that close pedd=
=3D
le!/ Handle !
=3D20
AMACO number one ( the wheel I learned on)....with two speeds....slow and s=
=3D
lower.... again OYE....
=3D20
=3D20
I have used 300 year old kick wheels...in Spain.....and some ancient Chines=
=3D
e wheels....turned with a stick....which ever direction you wish to go=3D2C=
..=3D
..
=3D20
I had my CXC Brent from 1972 until I moved from Vermont to Texas in 2003...=
=3D
.miss that wheel. Pete Voulkos used my wheel for a week at our workshop in =
=3D
1979...he signed my wheel with a felt marker! ..under the base.
=3D20
Wheels in China are either huge old fashioned monsters or shimpo knock-off=
=3D
s that make me puke.
=3D20
hehe
=3D20
=3D20
=3D20
ric
=3D20
=3D20
"...then fiery expedition be my wing=3D2C ..."=3D20
-Wm. Shakespeare=3D2C RICHARD III=3D2C Act IV Scene III=3D20
=3D20
Richard H. ("Ric") Swenson=3D2C Teacher=3D2C=3D20
Office of International Cooperation and Exchange of Jingdezhen Ceramic Inst=
=3D
itute=3D2C=3D20
TaoYang Road=3D2C Eastern Suburb=3D2C Jingdezhen City.
JiangXi Province=3D2C P.R. of China.=3D20
Postal code 333001.=3D20
Mobile/cellular phone : 86 13767818872=3D20
< RicSwenson0823@hotmail.com>
=3D20
http://www.jci.jx.cn/
http://www.ricswenson.com
=3D20
> Date: Thu=3D2C 20 Aug 2009 12:12:20 -0700
> From: fredrick@WELL.COM
> Subject: Re: Wheel speeds
> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>=3D20
> I have a Jepson Pro-station wheel=3D2C unfortunatly no longer made.
>=3D20
> Jepson bought the best motor controller he could find for the motor.
> It will creep very slow with plenty of torque and revs up to 200 rpm
> at the top speed=3D2C Jepson is a production potter and he likes to trim
> bottoms real fast when the tool is near the center.
>=3D20
> I realy don=3D3Bt use the max speed except when I use a diamond lap for
> wet grinding bottoms.
>=3D20
> Jepson sternly warned me not to mess with the speed settings on the
> controler and I don't know how because there are about six
> potentiometers on the control board for all sorts of things and he
> wouldn't tell me how to set the speed. It is good the way it is so I
> don't worry.
>=3D20
> Fred Paget
> --
>=3D20
> Twin Dragon Studio
> Mill Valley=3D2C CA=3D2C USA
> fredrick@well.com
>
> Charter Member Potters Council
_________________________________________________________________
Drag n=3D92 drop=3D97Get easy photo sharing with Windows Live=3D99 Photos.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/photos.aspx=3D
Steve Slatin on fri 21 aug 09
I used a Lockerbie electric once that seemed very
good at the lower speeds. I don't believe that
they're made any more, though. If you find one,
make sure you're comfortable with it -- it 'fits'
a certain size person and throwing style, and
isn't too adjustable.
The Thomas Stewart (with the upgraded pedal) was
extremely good at the lowest speeds, but they've
been taken over recently and I don't know if the
product will be the same.
I use a Pacifica GT-400, which I like -- but it runs
jumpily at the lowest speeds. Do I regret not
ponying up for a TS? Yes. But when I bought it,
I didn't know if I'd keep at pottery, and the
price difference seemed huge at the time.
Unless someone comes up to me and offers an
outrageously high price for it, I'm not going
to sell it and replace it, so it's what I have.
And when I use it, I don't think about the
control mechanism or the way the splash pan
fits, or the jumpiness at under 1/4 rpm that
it gives. It just does what it's supposed to
do.
The newer Shimpos seem to be better than the
older ones at lower speeds. One person told me
that the motors might not be as long-lasting as
the older ones were. I don't know on what
basis that comment was made, though.
Steve Slatin --
--- On Fri, 8/21/09, Johanna San Inocencio wro=
te:
>
> So, which electric wheels seem to
> function best at
> really slow speeds? One person mentioned the Shimpo and
> that was one
> thing I liked about the wheel I learned to throw on in
> school. Most
> everybody else avoided that wheel but I liked it. Taylor,
> you have a
> new Shimpo, does it go slow well like the old ones do? How
> about noise?
> Some of the wheels make a high pitched whiney sound when
> going really
> slow and I find it quite annoying.
>
> Johanna
Randall Moody on fri 21 aug 09
I don't mind the top speed so much since I can use the pedal to control
that. What I hate is the shuddering at low speeds. My TS Pro that I bought
before it became Skutt has started a slight jitter at really low speed. I
first noticed it when I was doing a largish round form with a small neck an=
d
there was a sound like a distant fog horn. That took me a while to realize
where it was coming from. :)
--
Randall in Atlanta
Jess McKenzie on sat 22 aug 09
We're newbies, seriously considering a Skutt/TS Legend wheel.
Now, though, we've begun to re-think, given this low speed
problem (we figure slow would be a good idea for a while).
We're also wondering if the SSX retrofit (~$200) is related to
the problem. See:
http://www.skuttwheels.com/drive.html
We'd be grateful for any guidance.
~joan and jess in Sequim, WA
who've never thrown a pot
Date sent: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 06:12:54 -0700
Send reply to: Michael Wendt
From: Michael Wendt
Subject: Re: Wheel speeds
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
[ Double-click this line for list subscription options ]
Shuddering in standard commutator permanent magnet motors
comes from the variation in the armature's magnetic field
relative to the stationary permanent magnet of the field
magnets as the brushes switch from one set of contacts on
the cmmutator to the next. The expected "cogging" as it is
sometimes called smoothes out at higher rpms because the
armature is spinning fast enough to act as a flywheel.
Adding a small flywheel to the motor shaft might accomplish
significant smoothing at lower speeds.
Say you were turning at 25 rpm at the wheel head.
The motor would be turning at 250 rpm, and would probably be
smooth enough not to notice cogging.
At 6 rpm, the motor is still turning 60 rpm, so a small
flywheel of sufficient rim weight would probably help with
cogging. My wheel won't run much below that speed.
I use a mid 70s Brent speed controller.
Regards,
Michael Wendt
Randall wrote: I don't mind the top speed so much since I can
use the pedal to control that. What I hate is the shuddering
at low speeds. My TS Pro that I bought before it became Skutt
has started a slight jitter at really low speed. I first
noticed it when I was doing a largish round form with a small
neck and there was a sound like a distant fog horn. That took
me a while to realize where it was coming from. :)
-- Randall in Atlanta
Michael Wendt on sat 22 aug 09
Shuddering in standard commutator permanent magnet motors
comes from the variation in the armature's magnetic field
relative to the stationary permanent magnet of the field
magnets as the brushes switch from one set of contacts on
the cmmutator to the next. The expected "cogging" as it is
sometimes called smoothes out at higher rpms because the
armature is spinning fast enough to act as a flywheel.
Adding a small flywheel to the motor shaft might accomplish
significant smoothing at lower speeds.
Say you were turning at 25 rpm at the wheel head.
The motor would be turning at 250 rpm, and would probably be
smooth enough not to notice cogging.
At 6 rpm, the motor is still turning 60 rpm, so a small
flywheel of sufficient rim weight would probably help with
cogging. My wheel won't run much below that speed.
I use a mid 70s Brent speed controller.
Regards,
Michael Wendt
Randall wrote:
I don't mind the top speed so much since I can use the pedal
to control
that. What I hate is the shuddering at low speeds. My TS Pro
that I bought
before it became Skutt has started a slight jitter at really
low speed. I
first noticed it when I was doing a largish round form with
a small neck and
there was a sound like a distant fog horn. That took me a
while to realize
where it was coming from. :)
--
Randall in Atlanta
Lee Love on sat 22 aug 09
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 10:57 PM, Ric Swenson w=
=3D
rote:
> I have used treadle Koppensteins, =3DA0Lockerbies kick... =3DA0oye ve =3D=
A0! an=3D
d uff da! =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 ( we had 6 >=3DA0Kloppensteins at UAA =3DA0(Uni=
versity of=3D
Alaska at Anchorage) in the 1970s) =3DA0we also had a lot >of Shimpos....I=
h=3D
ated that close peddle!/ Handle =3DA0 !
My Shimpo Gold has a remote footpedal and no lever. I never liked
brents. Even the CXCs are noisey when they get old. The old
shimpos feel more mechanical than electric. I like it when you
center and the wheel slows, so you give it more power. Just like
kicking.
> Wheels in China are either huge old fashioned monsters =3DA0or shimpo kno=
ck=3D
-offs that make >me puke.
Maybe the Koreans and Japanese can introduce them to what they used
to use. Actually they could share a lot of Chinese culture and
technology that originated in China but was lost there.
--
Lee Love, Minneapolis
"The tea ceremony bowl is the ceramic equivalent of a sonnet: a
small-scale, seemingly constricted form that challenges the artist to
go beyond mere technical virtuosity and find an approach that both
satisfies and transcends the conventions." -- Rob Sliberman
full essay: http://togeika.multiply.com/journal/item/273/
douglas fur on sat 22 aug 09
Ric writes shimpo =3D93knock-offs that make me puke.=3D94
Taylor tells us=3D94 I'VE never sent a pot hurling=3D94
I'll use this as my excuse- Cardew had a bad boy story about Matsubayashi
dissing a pot Leach was proud of- "In my father's pottery, this is what we
call a vomit pot."
Old fart department
Old "growler" wheels with a Masters-Reliance motor. as I recall the
controller was electro-mechanical. You physically moved the brushes of the
motor and changed the timing of the polarity shifting that drives the
motor. The arc-ing could be picked up by an AM radio within 3blocks.
DRB
Seattle
Steve Slatin on sun 23 aug 09
1 -- yes, the controller is a big piece of
the puzzle. You can (or could) go to Tacoma
Clay Arts and check out their TS products,
which do (or did) include different foot pedals,
the SSX makes the wheel very different.
2 -- Seattle Pottery Supply has a good selection
of Shimpos, some Brents, and a few CI's.
It's also worth the trip there to check out
that range of products.
3 -- Come by the Open Aire Market on saturday
between 9 and 3 -- I'm there pretty much every
week -- for a chat. I don't have a TS, but
you can check out my Pacifica, which is a
pretty good wheel for the price.
4 -- The more wheels you can check out by yourself,
the better off you are in terms of making a wise purchase
choice.
Steve Slatin --
--- On Sat, 8/22/09, Jess McKenzie wrote:
> We're newbies, seriously considering
> a Skutt/TS Legend wheel.
> Now, though, we've begun to re-think, given this low speed
> problem (we figure slow would be a good idea for a while).
>
> We're also wondering if the SSX retrofit (~$200) is related
> to
> the problem. See:
> http://www.skuttwheels.com/drive.html
>
> We'd be grateful for any guidance.
> ~joan and jess in Sequim, WA
> who've never thrown a pot
>
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