Logan Johnson on mon 14 sep 09
Hey there gang,
Well shoot I guess it IS all about who you know.
I've got a student & her husband brews his own beer.=3DA0 We "reinvented " =
th=3D
at universe 6 months ago !=3DA0 Where's OUR check ????=3DA0 ;oD
Have a good one all=3DA0 !
Logan
Logan Johnson=3D20
Yakima Valley Pottery & Supply=3D20
719 w. Nob Hill blvd.=3D20
Yakima Wa. 98902=3D20
(509) 469-6966=3D20
www.yakimavalleypottery.net
--- On Mon, 9/14/09, Vince Pitelka wrote:
From: Vince Pitelka
Subject: Re: Why I will never be an Artist...
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 5:33 PM
James Freeman quoted a news item from New Zealand:
"In 2002 the same award was given to David Stewart, for his work
'Hyperreal Tool Box for the Reinvention of a Transglobal Empire in a
Parallel Universe', which consisted of five crates of home
brewed-beer."
Well, there was a judge who truly understood fine art.=3DA0 Hell, when I ge=
t
ready to reinvent the parallel universe trans-global empire, first thing I'=
=3D
m
doing is brewing five crates of beer.=3DA0 Then I'll be ready.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A
Frank Gaydos on tue 15 sep 09
That brings to mind this passage from Art and Fear:
Art & Fear: Observations On the Perils (and Rewards) of Artmaking
(Paperback)
by David Bayles
Which someone on this Listserve mentioned... (And thanks for that)
"Post modernist art is post audience art."
Frank Gaydos
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Freeman"
To:
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 5:11 PM
Subject: Why I will never be an Artist...
Found this interesting bit from New Zealand:
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Tue, 08 Sep 2009 2:41p.m.
Artists are outraged at a piece of art which has won a Waikato award
and $15,000, the controversial piece is a pile of discarded wrapping
and scraps from other entries.
The piece, 'Collateral', which won the Waikato National Contemporary
Art Award, was entered by Berlin-based Dane Mitchell, who won $15,000
for his effort - or lack of.
Mitchell wrote a message to Waikato Museum art gallery staff asking
them to collect the discarded wrapping of other entries and tip it on
the floor. That was his entry, the Waikato Times reported.
Another entrant, Mark Hayes, said he spent 26 hours "cutting, welding
and grinding"' for his Domestic Violence is Not Okay sculpture, but
probably should not have bothered.
"Contemporary art needs to say something to you and make you think. I
am sorry but I just cannot see the 'clever' and 'cheeky' in the
winning sculpture," he said. "Is someone trying to make Trust Waikato
look like a joke?"
Other local artists Collette Fergus and Bruce McLachlan said the
winning entry was "the worst yet".
"A pile of rubbish that wasn't even created by this guy is worth
$15,000?" Fergus asked.
She said it was a "sad mockery of us all and an embarrassment to the
arts community".
Museum director Kate Vusoniwailala defended the decision of the judge,
Charlotte Huddleston.
It had achieved an objective of getting a lot of people talking about
the awards, she said.
"There will always be people who love things and those who hate them.
The bottom line is we always ensure the judge we select has an
excellent reputation."
In 2002 the same award was given to David Stewart, for his work
'Hyperreal Tool Box for the Reinvention of a Transglobal Empire in a
Parallel Universe', which consisted of five crates of home
brewed-beer.
NZPA / 3 News
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
The website has a photo of the winning work of contemporary Art:
http://www.3news.co.nz/OddNews/Story/tabid/973/articleID/120211/cat/272/Def=
ault.aspx
Why do we even bother?
Take care.
...James
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I
should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/clayart/
Randall Moody on tue 15 sep 09
Paul Rand noted in 1992 that postmodern art is "Faddish and frivolous, it
harbors its own built-in boredom." I think that the awarding of this prize
confirms his claim.
--
Randall in Atlanta
John Rodgers on tue 15 sep 09
I just had a nice chat with a good friend in Sidney, AU. We got onto the
subject of Vegemite - a Kraft food product - very much Australian.
Spread it on bread like butter. I asked him what it was like and he
said "imagine salty Guiness!"
Imagine a salty Guiness spread on your toast every morning!!
A different universe indeed!
John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL
Logan Johnson wrote:
> Hey there gang,
> Well shoot I guess it IS all about who you know.
> I've got a student & her husband brews his own beer. We "reinvented " th=
at universe 6 months ago ! Where's OUR check ???? ;oD
> Have a good one all !
> Logan
>
> Logan Johnson
> Yakima Valley Pottery & Supply
> 719 w. Nob Hill blvd.
> Yakima Wa. 98902
> (509) 469-6966
> www.yakimavalleypottery.net
>
> --- On Mon, 9/14/09, Vince Pitelka wrote:
>
> From: Vince Pitelka
> Subject: Re: Why I will never be an Artist...
> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 5:33 PM
>
> James Freeman quoted a news item from New Zealand:
> "In 2002 the same award was given to David Stewart, for his work
> 'Hyperreal Tool Box for the Reinvention of a Transglobal Empire in a
> Parallel Universe', which consisted of five crates of home
> brewed-beer."
>
> Well, there was a judge who truly understood fine art. Hell, when I get
> ready to reinvent the parallel universe trans-global empire, first thing =
I'm
> doing is brewing five crates of beer. Then I'll be ready.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft
> Tennessee Tech University
> vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Chris Campbell on tue 15 sep 09
It's easy to put this award down as crap
but really, the artist in question came up
with an original idea.
It's original to think to ask the person who
unwraps all the work to save the wrappings
and pile them up.
Like it or not, it was a leap of faith that the
person would do it or that they had any
sense of style when they dumped it.
Sure anyone could have done this ...
but no one else did.
Chris Campbell - in North Carolina
Chris Campbell Pottery LLC
Designs in Colored Porcelain
9417 Koupela Drive
Raleigh NC 27615-2233
919-215-8644
Fax: 919-676-2062
www.ccpottery.com
http://neriagechris.blogspot.com/
Steve Slatin on tue 15 sep 09
Logan!
It doesn't 'count' as art if you've already
drunk it ALL! You gotta have *something* left
to display as "art!"
=3D20
Steve Slatin --=3D20
--- On Mon, 9/14/09, Logan Johnson wrote:
> Hey there gang,
> Well shoot I guess it IS all about who you know.
> I've got a student & her husband brews his own beer.=3DA0
> We "reinvented " that universe 6 months ago !=3DA0 Where's OUR
> check ????=3DA0 ;oD
> Have a good one all=3DA0 !
> Logan=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A
marci and rex on tue 15 sep 09
At 08:38 AM 9/15/2009, John Rodgers wrote:
>I just had a nice chat with a good friend in Sidney, AU. We got onto the
>subject of Vegemite - a Kraft food product - very much Australian.
>Spread it on bread like butter. I asked him what it was like and he
>said "imagine salty Guiness!"
>
>Imagine a salty Guiness spread on your toast every morning!!
AHHHHHHH! Vegemite! Being a person who has to try everything,
I did have some when I was in Australia and it wasnt
half bad if you spread it on your toast thinly with LOTS
of jam .. I was told that they start off feeding it to babies..
and I said that they may as well since babies are gonna
cry anyway ... ( grin )
Its interesting how , when you are away from home, even
the ordinary becomes not so ordinary . My favorite was that
they served hamburgers with a fried egg and a slice of beet
root as standard fare..... and I loved hearing my name there
: Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh-see. Sounded so exotic LOL !
Also, got a kick out of the " kangaroo crossing" signs on the roa=
d.
Marci
Logan Johnson on tue 15 sep 09
Hey Steve ,
But, but, but, I wanted to demonstrate the beauty of the artist interaction=
=3D
with their work & the ever changing face of "Art". :oD
Logan
Logan Johnson=3D20
Yakima Valley Pottery & Supply=3D20
719 w. Nob Hill blvd.=3D20
Yakima Wa. 98902=3D20
(509) 469-6966=3D20
www.yakimavalleypottery.net
--- On Tue, 9/15/09, Steve Slatin wrote:
From: Steve Slatin
Subject: Re: Why I will never be an Artist...
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG, "Logan Johnson"
Date: Tuesday, September 15, 2009, 9:13 AM
Logan!
It doesn't 'count' as art if you've already
drunk it ALL!=3DA0 You gotta have *something* left
to display as "art!"
=3DA0=3D20
Steve Slatin --=3D20
--- On Mon, 9/14/09, Logan Johnson wrote:
> Hey there gang,
> Well shoot I guess it IS all about who you know.
> I've got a student & her husband brews his own beer.=3DA0
> We "reinvented " that universe 6 months ago !=3DA0 Where's OUR
> check ????=3DA0 ;oD
> Have a good one all=3DA0 !
> Logan
=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A
Eva Gallagher on tue 15 sep 09
Well Chris - are we talking about art and artistic expression or are we
talking about originalitiy in ideas - lot's of original ideas are not art.
They should have entered it into the most original idea exhibit not an art
show.
Just my two cents - I love contemporary art but it needs to exhibit some
artistic merit not just thoughts.
Eva Gallagher
Deep River, Ontario
http://stevenhilljourneyworkshopjuly2008.blogspot.com/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Campbell"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: Why I will never be an Artist...
> It's easy to put this award down as crap
> but really, the artist in question came up
> with an original idea.
>
> It's original to think to ask the person who
> unwraps all the work to save the wrappings
> and pile them up.
>
> Like it or not, it was a leap of faith that the
> person would do it or that they had any
> sense of style when they dumped it.
>
>
> Sure anyone could have done this ...
> but no one else did.
>
> Chris Campbell - in North Carolina
>
> Chris Campbell Pottery LLC
> Designs in Colored Porcelain
> 9417 Koupela Drive
> Raleigh NC 27615-2233
>
>
> 919-215-8644
> Fax: 919-676-2062
> www.ccpottery.com
> http://neriagechris.blogspot.com/
>
>
Seele Robert on tue 15 sep 09
On Sep 15, 2009, at 10:32 AM, Chris Campbell wrote:
It's easy to put this award down as crap
but really, the artist in question came up
with an original idea.
As a retired farmer, crap is crap, no matter how high you stack it ;(
bob seele
John Rodgers on tue 15 sep 09
That is the trick, isn't it - to think out of the box. To conceive an
idea that no one else has had, and bring it into being.
I use to have two ladies in my shop who painted porcelain. One would sit
and paint images all day long - and never use a photograph, never use a
magazine picture, newspaper clipping - nothing - yet she would paint
scenes and faces conjured up from her mind and never repeat herself. The
other lady could execute her work equally well - BUT - she could not
paint anything original. She could copy the other lady's work down to
the last single bristle stroke, but if she didn't have something to
copy, she could not paint a stroke. The first lady was in my mind - a
true artist. The second lady was a crafter - a very fine crafter - and
nothing is/was to be detracted about her work. But artist she was not -
in my mind. The first lady was. She was original, and thought out of the
box. She knew her tools, paints, and methods, was skilled, and created
from scratch, new original out of the box work. To me, that is an artist
in the purest form.
Many of us are a cross somewhere between these two extremes - and
sometimes we might rise above ourselves on occasion and produce
something extraordinary. And sometimes we might just hit it lucky and
get it into the right show at the right time, and win the $15,000 -
sometimes. But for the most of us - not.
John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL
Chris Campbell wrote:
> It's easy to put this award down as crap
> but really, the artist in question came up
> with an original idea.
>
> It's original to think to ask the person who
> unwraps all the work to save the wrappings
> and pile them up.
>
> Like it or not, it was a leap of faith that the
> person would do it or that they had any
> sense of style when they dumped it.
>
>
> Sure anyone could have done this ...
> but no one else did.
>
> Chris Campbell - in North Carolina
>
> Chris Campbell Pottery LLC
> Designs in Colored Porcelain
> 9417 Koupela Drive
> Raleigh NC 27615-2233
>
>
> 919-215-8644
> Fax: 919-676-2062
> www.ccpottery.com
> http://neriagechris.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
James Freeman on tue 15 sep 09
On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 11:32 AM, Chris Campbell
wrote:
> It's easy to put this award down as crap
> but really, the artist in question came up
> with an original idea.
>
> It's original to think to ask the person who
> unwraps all the work to save the wrappings
> and pile them up.
>
> Like it or not, it was a leap of faith that the
> person would do it or that they had any
> sense of style when they dumped it.
>
>
> Sure anyone could have done this ...
> but no one else did.
>
Chris, et alii...
In 1974, Robert Grosvenor exhibited "Untitled" at the Museu Serralves
in Porto, Portugal. It consists of a 2x4 laying on the floor of an
otherwise empty gallery. That's it; just a 2x4, one that he purchased
just prior at a lumberyard. Critics have gushed:
"Robert Grosvenor's sculptures lodge in memory as few others do. They
resist interpretation and remind us that exceptional art is rarely
ingratiating. Grosvenor advances slowly; he has completed 18
sculptures and around 35 small drawings and collages since 1975. We
can imagine him keeping company with doubt and grappling with the
words "what" and "how". His recalcitrant work matters much to many
artists."
One is left to ponder just how many tens or hundreds of thousands of
dollars the museum paid for this great statement, and how precisely
they differentiated it from the 2x4 left on the ground by a workman.
(One is also left to wonder why he didn't double his output by, say,
buying 18 more 2x4s.)
So, being the first to think of something automatically makes it art?
Some might differ with this rather inclusive definition. Even if we
do stipulate to this definition, was this gentleman really the first
to do this? Isn't this precisely what Du Champ did with his Fountain
90 years ago? In the very odd and disturbing "novel" The Cheese
Monkeys (NOT recommended reading. Actually, the first half is; the
second half is a tacked on melange that pretty much destroys the
interesting thoughts conjured up in the first half), one of the
antagonists, an art professor, does precisely the same "original"
thing when he places a pile of manure in the faculty exhibition. This
act of originality predates the rubbish man from New Zealand by 8
years. Along with all of the other "nots" one could attach to the
rubbish pile, we can also add "not original".
Yes, his piece does indeed have us reacting, but if that is the
definition of "art", then "2 Girls, 1 Cup" certainly trumps all.
Just food for thought.
...James
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I
should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/clayart/
Steve Slatin on tue 15 sep 09
Bob -- I'm sure if you want to create an
installation with dozens and dozens of crates/
boxes of empties, and a chair, and you sitting
in the middle of the installation with yer
bare bulgy belly hangin' out, there's some
museum somewhere that will give you the space
to display your 'art' and that you will acquire
a great international reputation and you will
subsequently be able to sell something, who
knows what, that takes no effort to make for
a price too high for any sane person to pay.
Me, I'm increasing my pottery collection.
Steve Slatin --
--- On Tue, 9/15/09, Seele Robert wrote:
> Styeve,
>
> Does a beer belly count if you display it ???
>
> bob seele
Lee Love on tue 15 sep 09
On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Seele Robert wrote:
> As a retired farmer, crap is crap, no matter how high you stack it ;(
To a farmer, at least "crap" is a good fertilizer.
--
Lee Love, Minneapolis
"The tea ceremony bowl is the ceramic equivalent of a sonnet: a
small-scale, seemingly constricted form that challenges the artist to
go beyond mere technical virtuosity and find an approach that both
satisfies and transcends the conventions." -- Rob Sliberman
full essay: http://togeika.multiply.com/journal/item/273/
Steve Slatin on tue 15 sep 09
Logs --
OK, here's what you do -- you brew 5 gals of
your best home brew. Save the packaging that
you had for materials, and equipment to brew
with, and make it the first part of your
installation.
The bottled beer is the second part of your
installation. Naturally, as you have planned
all along to guzzle it, you'll be saving boxes
and bottles and bottle caps, but no actual
liquid. This is the second part of your
installation.
And now, the difficult (or not!) part. To
truly express -- and I do mean express --
"the beauty of the artist's interaction
with their work" you'll have to save the
'outcome.' (And yes, I did choose that
word carefully.) I would recommend, as
an homage to Andres Serrano, you use a
set of glasses that are sealable by some
means (now *that's* artistic choice!).
After your 5-gallon indulgence, you
should have something between 4 and 5
gallons of 'outcome.' Stacked neatly,
this becomes the third part of your
installation.
I would suggest the use of a title
such as "Brewers Tryptich" or "You
Only Rent It Tryptich" for this installation.
Only advanced artists should attempt
titles like "Out of the Cradle, Endlessly
Sozzling," or "How Come You Do Me Like
You Do, Do, Do?"
And if the Saatchi brothers don't buy it,
I'll eat my hat.
Pardon me, I have to go off and bake a
hat now, just in case ...
Steve Slatin --
--- On Tue, 9/15/09, Logan Johnson wrote:
> Hey Steve ,
> But, but, but, I wanted to demonstrate the beauty of the
> artist interaction with their work & the ever changing
> face of "Art". :oD
>
> Logan
Chris Campbell on tue 15 sep 09
> So, being the first to think of something
automatically makes it art?
Nope.
Not at all.
Makes it a winner though if the whole idea of
the exhibit is to generate publicity.
If you read their own comments, getting publicity
was the number one agenda.
Not honoring art.
I know ... its so easy to get confused when they appear
to be running an art contest.
To me, the very deep and personal message from the
artist was ...
he/she knew what the real agenda was and worked it.
Chris Campbell - in North Carolina
Chris Campbell Pottery LLC
Designs in Colored Porcelain
9417 Koupela Drive
Raleigh NC 27615-2233
919-215-8644
Fax: 919-676-2062
www.ccpottery.com
http://neriagechris.blogspot.com/
Philip Poburka on tue 15 sep 09
It ( these large 'awards' for such or similar gestures, among more-or-less
insider mutual admiration societies, ) reminds me of...'Then let them eat
Cake'
( Though, of course, that was not the right translation or meaning of what
Marie Antoinette had actually say'd...)
But anyway...
Oye...
Love,
Phil
Lv
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Campbell"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: Why I will never be an Artist...
> It's easy to put this award down as crap
> but really, the artist in question came up
> with an original idea.
>
> It's original to think to ask the person who
> unwraps all the work to save the wrappings
> and pile them up.
>
> Like it or not, it was a leap of faith that the
> person would do it or that they had any
> sense of style when they dumped it.
>
>
> Sure anyone could have done this ...
> but no one else did.
>
> Chris Campbell - in North Carolina
>
> Chris Campbell Pottery LLC
> Designs in Colored Porcelain
> 9417 Koupela Drive
> Raleigh NC 27615-2233
>
>
> 919-215-8644
> Fax: 919-676-2062
> www.ccpottery.com
> http://neriagechris.blogspot.com/
Joseph Herbert on wed 16 sep 09
The accepted premise that the "Idea of Art" and "Art" are the same thing is
the troublemaker. There has not been enough credit given for execution in
the art world for a long time. Once it was the major consideration. Of
course, one could execute the judge...
So, I have the idea to make an installation of piles of dirt in a room with
mirrored walls. Been done, you say. Not with the buried dead pony, say I.
Idea art at its best. The installation will be up for 3 months. Easier to
find the pony.
Joe - never even pretending to be an artist - I do have ideas, though...
Joseph Herbert
Training Developer
Randall Moody on wed 16 sep 09
I don't think that the pile of garbage as art is an original idea. I am
pretty sure that others have done it before. Also, not all original ideas
have merit. Are we reducing "art" to simply being an original idea?
--
Randall in Atlanta
logan johnson on wed 16 sep 09
HI Gang ,
All joking aside I hoping I can get some clarification on=3DA0 one of the s=
ev=3D
eral things bothering me about this whole story.=3DA0=3DA0 Let's for one mi=
nute=3D
ignore the questions of if=3DA0 the pile of wrappings are "good' or "bad'=
=3DA0=3D
"Art". Or for that matter if it's even "Art" at all .=3D20
What I don't understand is how was that entry was NOT a form of art fraud.=
=3D
=3D20
According to the original post=3DA0 :
>Mitchell wrote a message to Waikato Museum art gallery staff asking
>them to collect the discarded wrapping of other entries and tip it on
>the floor. That was his entry, the Waikato Times reported.
All Mitchell did was write a note asking other people to "make" his submiss=
=3D
ion
for him then he put his name on it .=3DA0 How is that any different from me=
a=3D
sking Chris C. or Tony C. or Mel to make a piece then let me enter it under=
=3D
my name ?
I was under the impression that to be an "artist's work" a piece had to hav=
=3D
e some effort by the artist.=3DA0 Even Dale Chillhully who can't see well e=
no=3D
ugh to blow the glass anymore is involved with his work more than just havi=
=3D
ng the idea then telling some apprentice or co-worker to do this or that ac=
=3D
cording to the documentry I've seen about him .=3DA0=3D20
So if anyone=3DA0 can help me understand why Mitchell was NOT guilty of art=
f=3D
raud I would really appreciate it .
Thanks gang !
Logan
Logan Johnson Yakima Valley Pottery & Supply 719 W Nob Hill Blvd. Ste C =
=3D
Yakima, WA 98902 509.469.6966 =3DA0www.audeostudios.com "Carpe Argill=
am=3D
!!"
Des & Jan Howard on wed 16 sep 09
John
Watch your mouth there!
Vegemite is a national & cultural icon.
Regular intake as kids is why Aussies stand
tall & proud in a world of you midgets.
Des...grump, grump.
ps It's SYDNEY, bloody hell!
John Rodgers wrote:
> I just had a nice chat with a good friend in Sidney, AU. We got onto the
> subject of Vegemite - a Kraft food product - very much Australian.
> Spread it on bread like butter. I asked him what it was like and he
> said "imagine salty Guiness!"
>
> Imagine a salty Guiness spread on your toast every morning!!
>
> A different universe indeed!
--
Des & Jan Howard
Lue Pottery
Lue NSW
Australia
2850
02 6373 6419
www.luepottery.hwy.com.au
-32.656072 149.840624
marci and rex on wed 16 sep 09
At 01:13 PM 9/16/2009, logan johnson wrote:
> How is that any different from me asking Chris C. or Tony C. or
> Mel to make a piece then let me enter it under my name ?
Because Chris or Tony or Mel would produce something
worth looking at ( grin )
Marci
James Freeman on wed 16 sep 09
On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 2:13 PM, logan johnson wro=
te:
>
> All Mitchell did was write a note asking other people to "make" his submi=
ssion
> for him then he put his name on it . How is that any different from me a=
sking Chris C. or Tony C. or Mel to make a piece then let me enter it under=
my name ?
> I was under the impression that to be an "artist's work" a piece had to h=
ave some effort by the artist.
>
> So if anyone can help me understand why Mitchell was NOT guilty of art f=
raud I would really appreciate it .
>
Because, Logan, he has precedent.
Hirst does not make any of his own work. Neither does Koons. While I
do not believe you will find an ordinary person who would consider
either to be an Artist, the Art cognoscenti worship at their feet.
Warhol didn't paint his own works, at least not during his later
years. The Old Masters didn't paint much of their own work. They
would add a brushstroke here or there, then sign their name. Most
sculptors do not make their own work. Many just make a little model
or sketch, then have craftsmen produce the piece. Many others just
produce a full-size clay model which is then molded, cast, and
finished by foundry workers. Hell, Hamada and his fellow treasures
didn't make their own work either.
People like Koons or Hirst or the gentleman from New Zealand cannot
claim to be sculptors without committing, in your words, art fraud,
but they can certainly claim to be Artists since this term has lost
all objective meaning. The "Art" in the rubbish pile, you see, was
not in merely making the rubbish pile. Anyone could have done that,
as Chris pointed out. No, the Art was in thinking up the idea to have
someone dump trash in a gallery. The guy who did the actual dumping
was part of the "Art".
There was a show at a very big name New York gallery a couple of years
ago wherein the Artist hired four porn stars to disrobe in the
gallery, and then invited the audience to direct the porn stars'
activities. So who was the "Artist"? It was not the four people
sweating and grunting, nor the audience members who directed and
watched the sweating and grunting. No, they were the "Art". The
Artist was the guy who thought it up. By the way, the people engaged
in and watching the same activities in a venue in a less tony area,
likely near the airport, were not Art nor Artists, but merely sleaze
bags, because their intentions were not noble.
Is it all clear now?
Take care.
...James
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I
should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/clayart/
Randall Moody on wed 16 sep 09
On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 2:13 PM, logan johnson wrot=
e:
> HI Gang ,
> All joking aside I hoping I can get some clarification on one of the
> several things bothering me about this whole story. Let's for one minut=
e
> ignore the questions of if the pile of wrappings are "good' or "bad'
> "Art". Or for that matter if it's even "Art" at all .
> What I don't understand is how was that entry was NOT a form of art fraud=
.
> According to the original post :
>
> >Mitchell wrote a message to Waikato Museum art gallery staff asking
> >them to collect the discarded wrapping of other entries and tip it on
> >the floor. That was his entry, the Waikato Times reported.
>
> All Mitchell did was write a note asking other people to "make" his
> submission
> for him then he put his name on it . How is that any different from me
> asking Chris C. or Tony C. or Mel to make a piece then let me enter it un=
der
> my name ?
> I was under the impression that to be an "artist's work" a piece had to
> have some effort by the artist. Even Dale Chillhully who can't see well
> enough to blow the glass anymore is involved with his work more than just
> having the idea then telling some apprentice or co-worker to do this or t=
hat
> according to the documentry I've seen about him .
>
> So if anyone can help me understand why Mitchell was NOT guilty of art
> fraud I would really appreciate it .
>
> Thanks gang !
> Logan
>
> Logan Johnson Yakima Valley Pottery & Supply 719 W Nob Hill Blvd. Ste =
C
> Yakima, WA 98902 509.469.6966 www.audeostudios.com "Carpe
> Argillam!!"
>
Good point. Also, why didn't the museum staff tell him no, or say "If we do
that we will put our names on the piece." or my favorite, "Why don't you
drag your lazy arse down here and do it yourself." Of course all of that is
water under the bridge now. With silliness such as this going on in the
"Art" world it is no wonder funding for art is always called into question
by the public.
--
Randall in Atlanta
Des & Jan Howard on wed 16 sep 09
Marci
Yesterday after our pottery group set up
the 'Wine Weeks' showing we had a
de-briefing & meal nearby.
I had a beaut pub burger, meat, soft yolk fried
egg on top, beetroot, lettuce. Not a pickle in sight!
Plus a side dish of fried potato wedges,
sweet chili sauce & sour cream.
Around here the signs have kangaroo & wombat icons on
them. In far north Queensland the signs have cassowary
& tree kangaroo icons.
Des
Oldie - "If animals aren't meant to be eaten,
why are they made of meat?"
marci and rex wrote:
> Its interesting how , when you are away from home, even
> the ordinary becomes not so ordinary . My favorite was that
> they served hamburgers with a fried egg and a slice of beet
> root as standard fare.
> Also, got a kick out of the " kangaroo crossing" signs on the
> road.
--
Des & Jan Howard
Lue Pottery
Lue NSW
Australia
2850
02 6373 6419
www.luepottery.hwy.com.au
-32.656072 149.840624
James Freeman on thu 17 sep 09
A bit out of context, old friend, but you get the last word!
Take care.
...James
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I should
not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/clayart/
On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> James Freeman wrote:
> ...James "Artist" Freeman
>
> Aha! So you finally admit it James. There we have it everyone. He IS a=
n
> artist! (As if any of us ever doubted it!).
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft
> Tennessee Tech University
> vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
>
>
>
>
James Freeman on thu 17 sep 09
On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 1:52 AM, Joseph Herbert wr=
ote:
>
> So, I have the idea to make an installation of piles of dirt in a room wi=
th
> mirrored walls. Been done, you say. Not with the buried dead pony, say =
I.
Joseph...
Sorry, but my entry will win. I am going to enter a pug of wet clay
still in the bag. It will be entitled "Unthrown Pot". The way I see
it, my work will challenge our concept of object and maker. By
calling into question our notions of use/function, maker/user, and
object/medium, I force the viewer into a dialog wherein we must
confront our very understanding of the concept of object, and our own
positions and biases with reference to the art/craft dichotomy. The
choice of clay as my medium stands as a bulwark against the
encroachment and dehumanization so prevalent in our modern and often
disconnected western consumer-driven technological society wherein our
very basis of self and self actualization are defined by the toxic
byproducts of the capitalist system. Only by embracing nature and the
basic human needs as exemplified by food/sustenance can we hope to
regain a sense of our own place in the universe.
You see, Joseph? While your entry is certainly deep, your piece
relies too heavily on the symbolism carried by the pony. My piece
comes with every art critical buzzword except "exploration", and I'm
pretty sure that if I think about it some more, there will be some of
that in there too! You will all see my piece on the cover of Ceramics
Monthly soon! Oh, and just in case your pony does impress the juror,
I am going to place a freeze-dried possum next to the pug of clay.
Hah! Top that!
Oh, and don't any of you steal my idea. Patent Pending, and all that!
...James "Artist" Freeman
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I
should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/clayart/
marci and rex on thu 17 sep 09
At 07:52 AM 9/17/2009, James Freeman wrote:
>Joseph...
>
>Sorry, but my entry will win.
PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTT!!! Got you ALL beat !
Im gonna kidnap me a show judge, bury him/her up to his
/her neck in brown clay formed to resemble poo....
and call it " Artist's Statement" ...
Where's my money ?
Marci
Weiland, Jeff on thu 17 sep 09
This incredibly enticing thread has my head spinning with random thoughts o=
=3D
f worthless verbage. I am reading this while my students are working and th=
=3D
ey are wondering what I am reading that is so funny. Maybe I should give an=
=3D
assignment to create an artist statement with a requirement of utilizing a=
=3D
s much art-ese as nauseatingly possible. Maybe it should be included in our=
=3D
"No Child Left Behind" requirements. Back to work...I could spend all day =
=3D
on this diversion.
Jeff Weiland
Greenfield-Central High School
810 North Broadway
Greenfield, Indiana 46140
317-462-9211
jweiland@gcsc.k12.in.us
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of James Freeman
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 8:52 AM
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Why I will never be an Artist...
On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 1:52 AM, Joseph Herbert wr=
=3D
ote:
>
> So, I have the idea to make an installation of piles of dirt in a room wi=
=3D
th
> mirrored walls. Been done, you say. Not with the buried dead pony, say =
=3D
I.
Joseph...
Sorry, but my entry will win. I am going to enter a pug of wet clay
still in the bag. It will be entitled "Unthrown Pot". The way I see
it, my work will challenge our concept of object and maker. By
calling into question our notions of use/function, maker/user, and
object/medium, I force the viewer into a dialog wherein we must
confront our very understanding of the concept of object, and our own
positions and biases with reference to the art/craft dichotomy. The
choice of clay as my medium stands as a bulwark against the
encroachment and dehumanization so prevalent in our modern and often
disconnected western consumer-driven technological society wherein our
very basis of self and self actualization are defined by the toxic
byproducts of the capitalist system. Only by embracing nature and the
basic human needs as exemplified by food/sustenance can we hope to
regain a sense of our own place in the universe.
You see, Joseph? While your entry is certainly deep, your piece
relies too heavily on the symbolism carried by the pony. My piece
comes with every art critical buzzword except "exploration", and I'm
pretty sure that if I think about it some more, there will be some of
that in there too! You will all see my piece on the cover of Ceramics
Monthly soon! Oh, and just in case your pony does impress the juror,
I am going to place a freeze-dried possum next to the pug of clay.
Hah! Top that!
Oh, and don't any of you steal my idea. Patent Pending, and all that!
...James "Artist" Freeman
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I
should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/clayart/
Lee Love on thu 17 sep 09
Just make stuff. Don't worry about "angels on a pinhead" crap.
--
Lee Love, Minneapolis
"The tea ceremony bowl is the ceramic equivalent of a sonnet: a
small-scale, seemingly constricted form that challenges the artist to
go beyond mere technical virtuosity and find an approach that both
satisfies and transcends the conventions." -- Rob Sliberman
full essay: http://togeika.multiply.com/journal/item/273/
Dannon Rhudy on thu 17 sep 09
Jeff Weiland said:
......Maybe I should give an assignment to create an artist statement with =
a
requirement of utilizing as much art-ese as nauseatingly possible.......
That's brilliant, Jeff. It will teach them more than they immediately
comprehend. If they are able to make a statement (about art or
anything else) using as much incomprehensible language as possible,
then they can do the opposite. They'd really have a good time
making the first statement, and the second - well, they just need to
eliminate the unnecessary/incomprehensible/ridiculous. Simplicity
and forthrightness are rare jewels. If they can learn that NOW,
then they won't get left behind.
regards
Dannon Rhudy
Paul Lewing on thu 17 sep 09
On Sep 17, 2009, at 5:52 AM, James Freeman wrote:
My piece
comes with every art critical buzzword except "exploration",
Oh no, James. You can't have a credible art statement without the
word "juxtaposition". It just isn't done. And you also never used
the word "reference" as a verb. See, you really never will be an
artist.
Paul Lewing
www.paullewingtile.com
www.paullewingart.com
Evonne Smulders on thu 17 sep 09
Here's one for you.
Here one to ponder....
In 2008, the artist, Roger Hiorns, filled a waterproofed flat
(apartment) in London with 75,000 litres of copper sulfate solution.
The solution was left to crystallise for several weeks, and the flat
was drained, leaving crystal-covered walls, floors and ceilings.
The work is titled Seizure.[13]
The flat is still open for public viewing as of September, 2009.
Evonne Smulders
evonne@terracottagallery.ca
www.terracottagallery.ca
On 17-Sep-09, at 6:52 AM, James Freeman wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 1:52 AM, Joseph Herbert > > wrote:
>>
>> So, I have the idea to make an installation of piles of dirt in a
>> room with
>> mirrored walls. Been done, you say. Not with the buried dead
>> pony, say I.
>
>
> Joseph...
>
> Sorry, but my entry will win. I am going to enter a pug of wet clay
> still in the bag. It will be entitled "Unthrown Pot". The way I see
> it, my work will challenge our concept of object and maker. By
> calling into question our notions of use/function, maker/user, and
> object/medium, I force the viewer into a dialog wherein we must
> confront our very understanding of the concept of object, and our own
> positions and biases with reference to the art/craft dichotomy. The
> choice of clay as my medium stands as a bulwark against the
> encroachment and dehumanization so prevalent in our modern and often
> disconnected western consumer-driven technological society wherein our
> very basis of self and self actualization are defined by the toxic
> byproducts of the capitalist system. Only by embracing nature and the
> basic human needs as exemplified by food/sustenance can we hope to
> regain a sense of our own place in the universe.
>
> You see, Joseph? While your entry is certainly deep, your piece
> relies too heavily on the symbolism carried by the pony. My piece
> comes with every art critical buzzword except "exploration", and I'm
> pretty sure that if I think about it some more, there will be some of
> that in there too! You will all see my piece on the cover of Ceramics
> Monthly soon! Oh, and just in case your pony does impress the juror,
> I am going to place a freeze-dried possum next to the pug of clay.
> Hah! Top that!
>
> Oh, and don't any of you steal my idea. Patent Pending, and all that!
>
> ...James "Artist" Freeman
>
> James Freeman
>
> "All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I
> should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
> -Michel de Montaigne
>
> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/clayart/
James Freeman on thu 17 sep 09
Paul...
Damn, how could I have forgotten "juxtaposition"? I am ALWAYS
juxtaposing! And "reference" just completely slipped my mind. I'm
putting the oversight down to show prep fatigue. I'll just work them
into the "exploration" paragraph I'm adding, then I'll be an Artist
again! Thanks for watching my back. I almost had to relinquish my
Official Artist identification card (the secret New York gallery
handshake is on the back).
Take care.
...James
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I
should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/clayart/
On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Paul Lewing wrote:
>
> On Sep 17, 2009, at 5:52 AM, James Freeman wrote:
> =3DA0My piece
> comes with every art critical buzzword except "exploration",
>
> Oh no, James. =3DA0You can't have a credible art statement without the wo=
rd
> "juxtaposition". =3DA0It just isn't done. =3DA0And you also never used th=
e wo=3D
rd
> "reference" as a verb. =3DA0See, you really never will be an artist.
> Paul Lewing
> www.paullewingtile.com
> www.paullewingart.com
>
James Freeman on thu 17 sep 09
Evonne...
Now THAT sounds cool! Way better than the artist who painted his
entire house royal blue. Everything, inside and out, walls, carpets,
roof, furniture, contents, EVERYTHING! It's also WAY cooler than the
piker stuff Christo does. Christo only adds to our landfills when he
is done. This guy leaves a toxic Superfund site! I am truly humbled.
...James
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I
should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/clayart/
On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:31 AM, Evonne Smulders
wrote:
> Here's one for you.
> Here one to ponder....
> In 2008, the artist, Roger Hiorns, filled a waterproofed flat (apartment)=
=3D
in
> London with 75,000 litres of copper sulfate solution. The solution was le=
=3D
ft
> to crystallise for several weeks, and the flat was drained, leaving
> crystal-covered walls, floors and ceilings.
> The work is titled Seizure.[13]
> The flat is still open for public viewing as of September, 2009.
>
>
> Evonne Smulders
> evonne@terracottagallery.ca
> www.terracottagallery.ca
> On 17-Sep-09, at 6:52 AM, James Freeman wrote:
>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 1:52 AM, Joseph Herbert
> wrote:
>
> So, I have the idea to make an installation of piles of dirt in a room wi=
=3D
th
>
> mirrored walls. =3DA0Been done, you say. =3DA0Not with the buried dead po=
ny, =3D
say I.
>
>
> Joseph...
>
> Sorry, but my entry will win. =3DA0I am going to enter a pug of wet clay
> still in the bag. =3DA0It will be entitled "Unthrown Pot". =3DA0The way I=
see
> it, my work will challenge our concept of object and maker. =3DA0By
> calling into question our notions of use/function, maker/user, and
> object/medium, I force the viewer into a dialog wherein we must
> confront our very understanding of the concept of object, and our own
> positions and biases with reference to the art/craft dichotomy. =3DA0The
> choice of clay as my medium stands as a bulwark against the
> encroachment and dehumanization so prevalent in our modern and often
> disconnected western consumer-driven technological society wherein our
> very basis of self and self actualization are defined by the toxic
> byproducts of the capitalist system. =3DA0Only by embracing nature and th=
e
> basic human needs as exemplified by food/sustenance can we hope to
> regain a sense of our own place in the universe.
>
> You see, Joseph? =3DA0While your entry is certainly deep, your piece
> relies too heavily on the symbolism carried by the pony. =3DA0My piece
> comes with every art critical buzzword except "exploration", and I'm
> pretty sure that if I think about it some more, there will be some of
> that in there too! =3DA0You will all see my piece on the cover of Ceramic=
s
> Monthly soon! =3DA0Oh, and just in case your pony does impress the juror,
> I am going to place a freeze-dried possum next to the pug of clay.
> Hah! =3DA0Top that!
>
> Oh, and don't any of you steal my idea. =3DA0Patent Pending, and all that=
!
>
> ...James "Artist" Freeman
>
> James Freeman
>
> "All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. =3DA0I
> should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
> -Michel de Montaigne
>
> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/clayart/
>
>
Dannon Rhudy on thu 17 sep 09
James Freeman said:
......> Sorry, but my entry will win. I am going to enter a pug of wet cla=
y
> still in the bag. It will be entitled "Unthrown Pot"..........
I dunno James - your scope may be too narrow. Could
you call your piece "unfinished object" instead of "unthrown
pot"? If you did, those who do not care for pots but enjoy
sculptural work could become more involved
in the presumed eventual consummation of idea.
"No observer left behind (or out in the cold)".
Just a suggestion - not trying to invade your patent-pending
space......
regards
Dannon Rhudy
Adron Lilly on thu 17 sep 09
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 08:34:54 -0500, you wrote:
>PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTT!!! Got you ALL beat !
> Im gonna kidnap me a show judge, bury him/her up to his
>/her neck in brown clay formed to resemble poo....
> and call it " Artist's Statement" ...
>Where's my money ?
>
>Marci
After reading this rant for a few days I have to ask:
why are you stopping at his/her neck Marci?
Wouldn't that be an incomplete "Artist's Statement"? ;)
Adron
Elizabeth Priddy on thu 17 sep 09
I actually have a private collection of this piece in my studio boxed and w=
=3D
aiting to ship to collectors across the nation. =3DA0Mine is from the "2009=
D=3D
an Finch #2 throwing clay" series.
I have been waiting to release it to the public and the price is $10,000 pe=
=3D
r boxed set of 2.
You can order by paypal.=3DA0
Elizabeth Priddy
=3D0ABeaufort, NC - USA
=3D0A
=3D0AWorkshops and pottery online at: http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
=3D0A
=3D0APersonal Blog: http://open.salon.com/user_blog.php?uid=3D3D943
=3D0A
=3D0ANatural Instincts Conference Information:
=3D0Ahttp://downtothepottershouse.com/NaturalInstincts.html
=3D0A
=3D0AKiln pictures and such: http://www.flickr.com/photos/7973282@N03/
--- On Thu, 9/17/09, James Freeman wrote:
From: James Freeman
Subject: Re: Why I will never be an Artist...
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Thursday, September 17, 2009, 8:52 AM
Joseph...
Sorry, but my entry will win.=3DA0 I am going to enter a pug of wet clay
still in the bag.=3DA0 It will be entitled "Unthrown Pot". =3DA0
=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A
Snail Scott on thu 17 sep 09
> James Freeman said:
> ......> Sorry, but my entry will win. I am going to enter a pug of
> wet clay
>> still in the bag. It will be entitled "Unthrown Pot"....
I did that already. For a themed group show
of 'interactive' sculpture, I put 200# of Lizella
clay (closest I could get to 'natural' without a
shovel) and plopped it on top of a sculpture
pedestal. Set up a water bucket and towel
nearby. Titled it 'Playing God'. All night there
was a crowd of people around it, creating
their own landscapes and forms, adding to,
modifying, or annihilating those of previous
visitors, some of whom came back later to
restore their lost and altered creations.
-Snail
Paul Lewing on thu 17 sep 09
James Freeman said:
......> Sorry, but my entry will win. I am going to enter a pug of
wet clay
> still in the bag. It will be entitled "Unthrown Pot"..........
Sorry, James. I know you're trying really hard here to be an artist,
but what you propose to show here is not non-art, but non-craft. I
realize the idea is all about potential unrealized, but if the
potential were to be realized, it would be craft, not Art.
Paul Lewing
www.paullewingtile.com
www.paullewingart.com
Vince Pitelka on thu 17 sep 09
James Freeman wrote:
...James "Artist" Freeman
Aha! So you finally admit it James. There we have it everyone. He IS an
artist! (As if any of us ever doubted it!).
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
marci and rex on sun 20 sep 09
At 11:56 AM 9/17/2009, Adron Lilly wrote:
>After reading this rant for a few days I have to ask:
>
>why are you stopping at his/her neck Marci?
>
>Wouldn't that be an incomplete "Artist's Statement"? ;)
>
>Adron
But Adron , If you covered them completely, how could you
prove they were actually UNDER there?
Also, facial expressions are part of the emotional impact of
the piece...
( SIGH!) ... SOME people just dont get it. ...............( grin )
Marci
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