Veena Raghavan on thu 17 sep 09
Thanks, Vince,
It is so nice to see your positive heading! I, for one, am proud to
consider myself a fine artist. I feel that as long as I am happy with my ar=
t, that
is the most important thing. Not to say, that I am not critical of my work,
perhaps overcritical sometimes, but when I am happy with a piece or pieces,
I truly feel like an artist.
Veena
In a message dated 9/17/2009 9:50:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
vpitelka@DTCCOM.NET writes:
>
> Okay, I just wrote that to compensate for all those "Why I will never be
> an
> artist" subject headings. Now please, everyone respond to this message,
> so
> that we can proliferate the archives with this new, far more sensible and
> realistic subject heading.
VeenaRaghavan@cs.com
Logan Johnson on thu 17 sep 09
Hey There Gang,
O.k. Vince here's my reply & my Pride Formula. I couldn't pick one thing I =
=3D
was more proud of=3DA0 over the other so since these numbers added up to 10=
0%=3D
I figured this worked for me .
Pride Formula (^6 Ox. )=3DA0=3D20
25. =3DA0=3DA0 Being part of a type of an art form that feeds both body & s=
oul.
25. =3DA0 Being counted as part of the Clayart group.
25.=3DA0=3DA0 The craftsman ship I've learned & demand of myself.=3DA0=3D20
25.=3DA0=3DA0 Being an Artist.
-----------------------------------
100%
Add colorants to taste
Have a good one all !
Logan
Logan Johnson=3D20
Yakima Valley Pottery & Supply=3D20
719 w. Nob Hill blvd.=3D20
Yakima Wa. 98902=3D20
(509) 469-6966=3D20
www.yakimavalleypottery.net
--- On Thu, 9/17/09, Vince Pitelka wrote:
From: Vince Pitelka
Subject: Everyone on Clayart is proud to be a fine artist!
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Thursday, September 17, 2009, 5:44 PM
Okay, I just wrote that to compensate for all those "Why I will never be an
artist" subject headings.=3DA0 Now please, everyone respond to this message=
, =3D
so
that we can proliferate the archives with this new, far more sensible and
realistic subject heading.
Thanks -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A
Vince Pitelka on thu 17 sep 09
Okay, I just wrote that to compensate for all those "Why I will never be an
artist" subject headings. Now please, everyone respond to this message, so
that we can proliferate the archives with this new, far more sensible and
realistic subject heading.
Thanks -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Des & Jan Howard on fri 18 sep 09
Vince, "Everyone on Clayart is proud to be a fine artist!".
Crowd, "We are all proud to be a fine artist!".
Me, "I'm not!
(apologies to LofB)
Vince Pitelka wrote:
> Now please, everyone respond to this message, so
> that we can proliferate the archives with this new, far more sensible and
> realistic subject heading.
--
Des & Jan Howard
Lue Pottery
Lue NSW
Australia
2850
02 6373 6419
www.luepottery.hwy.com.au
-32.656072 149.840624
Jim Willett on fri 18 sep 09
damn fine idea Vince...we are proud to respond so we can proliferate a ne=
=3D
w=3D20
heading of pride rather than negativity
Jim and Cindy
Out of the Fire Studio
http://www.outofthefirestudio.com
Dana & Chris Trabka on fri 18 sep 09
Vince,
Yes, I am an artist. I've even had people come up to my booth and ask "Wher=
e
did you get your BFA?". My response is "My BS is from Grand Valley, and my
MS is from Central Michigan, I am still working on my BFA." Although I don'=
t
have a degree in the arts, my degrees in the sciences (math and computer
science) have helped me a great deal when working with clay.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vince Pitelka"
> Okay, I just wrote that to compensate for all those "Why I will never be
> an
> artist" subject headings. Now please, everyone respond to this message,
> so
> that we can proliferate the archives with this new, far more sensible and
> realistic subject heading.
> Thanks -
> - Vince
jeanne wood on fri 18 sep 09
I teach art in a school for children with emotional and behavioral disturba=
=3D
nces. There is an extremely high percentage of kids who have natural artist=
=3D
ic talent in that school.
I encourage them to declare themselves "Artists". To take that title.
Sometimes it feels like that belief in something good and special about one=
=3D
's self is the only thing that carries through difficult times.=3D20
Jeanne W.
In Idaho
--- On Thu, 9/17/09, Vince Pitelka wrote:
From: Vince Pitelka
Subject: Everyone on Clayart is proud to be a fine artist!
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Thursday, September 17, 2009, 6:44 PM
Okay, I just wrote that to compensate for all those "Why I will never be an
artist" subject headings.=3DA0 Now please, everyone respond to this message=
, =3D
so
that we can proliferate the archives with this new, far more sensible and
realistic subject heading.
Thanks -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A
Vince Pitelka on fri 18 sep 09
James Freeman quoted "Zen Seeing, Zen Drawing: Meditation in Action":
"Being an artist does not mean covering clean pieces of paper or canvas wit=
h
ink or pigment. It does not mean solo exhibitions or prizes. It definitel=
y
does not mean labeling ourselves "an artist". When I hear someone proclaim
"I am an artist", something in me whispers, "That so?" But if they say "I
paint", or "I draw", or "I play the piano". I like to talk about painting,
drawing, or playing the piano with them. Saying "I paint" or "I am a
painter or a pianist" may be a factual statement, but "artist" is an
honorific. Proclaiming oneself to be an artist is all too pretentious. Ar=
t
is neither a profession nor a hobby. Art is a Way of being."
James -
I am sure that this book offers a lot of wisdom, but in the above quote he
misses the reality by a wide mark. It is a shame that someone so informed
and fluent would misrepresent and misunderstand the term "artist" as
completely as some people here on Clayart. There seems to be some sort of
paranoia or misplaced suspicion in some people that causes them to distrust
and malign the term "artist." Please do not take that personally, because i=
t
applies to a lot of people, including Frederick Franck. If you hear someon=
e
proclaim "I am an arteest!" in a pompous and pretentious manner, then I too
would respond "That so?" But if someone proudly told me that he/she was an
artist, I would be pleased, and would say whatever sort of supportive and
genuinely congratulatory comment came to mind. Being an artist, and being
PROUD to be an artist, is a very fine thing. The world needs a LOT more
artists.
Art can be a profession, a hobby, AND a way of being.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Chaeli Sullivan on fri 18 sep 09
--- On Thu, 9/17/09, Jim Willett wrote:
damn fine idea Vince...we are proud to respond so we can proliferate a new=
=3D
=3D20
heading of pride rather than negativity
Jim and Cindy
Out of the Fire Studio
http://www.outofthefirestudio.com
Ditto.=3DA0 A mighty fine title !!!
Chae
=3DA0=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A
Snail Scott on fri 18 sep 09
... or else are proud to be craftsmen.
Or something.
Do work that you can take pride in,
whatever it is.
-Snail
James Freeman on fri 18 sep 09
In the introduction to his absolutely wonderful (and highly recommended)
book "Zen Seeing, Zen Drawing; Meditation in action", Frederick Franck wrot=
e
the following, which I offer without comment:
"Being an artist does not mean covering clean pieces of paper or canvas wit=
h
ink or pigment. It does not mean solo exhibitions or prizes. It definitel=
y
does not mean labeling ourselves "an artist". When I hear someone proclaim
"I am an artist", something in me whispers, "That so?" But if they say "I
paint", or "I draw", or "I play the piano". I like to talk about painting,
drawing, or playing the piano with them. Saying "I paint" or "I am a
painter or a pianist" may be a factual statement, but "artist" is an
honorific. Proclaiming oneself to be an artist is all too pretentious. Ar=
t
is neither a profession nor a hobby. Art is a Way of being."
All the best.
...James
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I should
not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/clayart/
Paul Lewing on fri 18 sep 09
On Sep 18, 2009, at 1:02 PM, James Freeman wrote:
When I hear someone proclaim
"I am an artist", something in me whispers, "That so?"
I've never quite understood this reasoning, although I know many
people share it. I figure anyone who makes art is an artist. I don't
think the title has anything to do with originality or quality. After
all, the worst electrician in the world still gets to call himself an
electrician and no one sees anything incongruous about it. To me
being an artist is no more special than being an electrician.
Paul Lewing
www.paullewingtile.com
www.paullewingart.com
Vince Pitelka on sat 19 sep 09
Eva Gallagher wrote:
"If everyone is an artist, then it is just a human trait as talking,
singing,
running etc. Now there are some people who call themselves orators, singers=
,
runners - can we all call ourselves those as well? In all other abilities,
those titles are conferred when skill is above average. So an artist should
be something that is above average - different from the average human due t=
o
genes, hard work and/or training/education."
Eva -
An orator orates, but we don't know how well until we hear him/her. A
singer sings, and again, we do not know how well until we hear him/her.
Lots of people call themselves runners because they run for exercise, but
that carries no implication that they are especially fast or have more
stamina. And yet these people are still orators, singers, or runners,
whether or not they are particularly good at what they do. An artist makes
art, but we don't know whether or not he/she is a good artist until we see
their work. Whether or not the work is any good, the maker is still an
artist.
If you have been reading my posts, you know that I never said that everyone
is an artist. When I posted the original message with the above subject
line, I explained that it was to counteract the negative "Why I will never
be an artist" subject line that appeared so many times on Clayart.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Chris Campbell on sat 19 sep 09
> Being an artist, and being PROUD to be
> an artist, is a very fine thing.
Yes, indeed it is.
The first time I wrote 'artist' as 'occupation'
on a government document, I expected
someone to phone and say PROVE IT !!
They don't.
You have to prove it to yourself
every day with your work.
Walk it, not just talk it.
> The world needs a LOT more artists.
How sadly true.
I love to travel and have been to countries
where people have been repressed for
various reasons and their cities are grey and
ugly and sad.
Whatever minds repress art seem to love the
color gray. Lack of imagination perhaps?
I call myself a 'ceramic artist' because calling
myself a potter leads to all kinds of confusion
and people asking me to make them a set of
dishes.
It's not snobbery, just simpler.
Chris Campbell - in North Carolina
Chris Campbell Pottery LLC
Designs in Colored Porcelain
9417 Koupela Drive
Raleigh NC 27615-2233
919-215-8644
Fax: 919-676-2062
www.ccpottery.com
http://neriagechris.blogspot.com/
James Freeman on sat 19 sep 09
On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 8:46 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> There seems to be some sort of
> paranoia or misplaced suspicion in some people that causes them to distru=
st
> and malign the term "artist."
>
Vince...
I believe you misunderstood me, and perhaps many of the other posters. Far
from distrusting or maligning the title "Artist", our complaint, likely
Franck's too, is that it is rather applied far too freely. I, and probably
Franck and others, believe that the liberal application of the title
"Artist" or "Art" cheapens the term, possibly to the point of
meaninglessness. I believe that "Artist" is a judgment to be conferred by
history and posterity, while you and others believe that it is a simple job
description.
I understand your position, and see clearly how it leads to the conclusions
you reach. I also believe that you are open-minded enough to see that my
position is at lease equally valid, even if you do not accept it. I do not
claim that my position is right and yours wrong, and I deny the converse.
My only claim is that mine leads to an elevation of "Art" as something gran=
d
and noble and special, while yours leads to the commonplace. If everything
is Art, then nothing is Art.
Take care.
...James
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I should
not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/clayart/
Vince Pitelka on sat 19 sep 09
James Freeman wrote:
"I believe that "Artist" is a judgment to be conferred by
history and posterity, while you and others believe that it is a simple job
description."
James -
You've got me worried here. I have read your posts carefully and feel that
I have responded accordingly, but I wonder if you have done the same,
because I never said that the term "artist" is a simple job description, an=
d
I don't believe that anyone else has said it. To say so would in fact demea=
n
the term. My contention is that anyone who makes art should proudly claim
the title "artist." What could be simpler, and how could that be wrong?
And how could that make the term meaningless? In fact, it enhances the scop=
e
and meaning of the term.
Art certainly is something grand and noble when it is done well, but if you
say that only those who create grand and noble art can be called "artists,"
you keep art as something lofty and unapproachable for most people in terms
of personal involvement. That serves no one.
You said:
"If everything is Art, then nothing is Art."
James, you write beautifully, and you have a sharp and incisive mind, but
sometimes you come to conclusions that seem out of left field. The above i=
s
an example. How did you distill from this conversation any implication tha=
t
"art is everything?" Certainly some artists create works that seem
arbitrary in terms of non-traditional materials, process, and concept. Tha=
t
started with Dada almost 100 years ago when Duchamp and Man Ray and others
challenged the art world in a way that proved very healthy in the evolution
of 20th century art. I contend that pushing the envelope in such a way is
essential to the ongoing evolution of art, and thus the definitions and
parameters of art continue to be challenged. That is a very good thing, and
of course only history will identify the worthwhile stuff. So, we have a
situation where an artist can say that anything is art, but that certainly
does not meant that everything is art.
Fundamentally, what it comes down to is that anyone who makes art is an
artist. If not, what are they? One of the basic, universally accepted
definitions of "artist" is "someone who makes art," and thus anyone who
makes any sort of art is an artist.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Eva Gallagher on sat 19 sep 09
If everyone is an artist, then it is just a human trait as talking, singing=
,
running etc. Now there are some people who call themselves orators, singers=
,
runners - can we all call ourselves those as well? In all other abilities,
those titles are conferred when skill is above average. So an artist should
be something that is above average - different from the average human due t=
o
genes, hard work and/or training/education.
Just my 2 cents -
Eva Gallagher
Deep River, Ontario
http://stevenhilljourneyworkshopjuly2008.blogspot.com/
Ann Potter on sun 20 sep 09
I am striving to live up to my title every day artist works for me since =
=3D
it
is general and I do more then just clay I draw,paint,do print making
occasionally, mainly because with out a clay studio to work in one must d=
=3D
o
what one can to keep being creative.
Philip Poburka on sun 20 sep 09
Hi May, all...
Lili had been kind enough to remind, and, I would like to affirm or
re-re-mind, that, without a working definition of 'Art', or, a comparison o=
f
several different working definitions, even...without a working
definition of 'Craft', ditto, specious and smug, insular quips such as the
'quote' below
attributed to 'Grayson Perry', merely sound ( to me anyway, )
like what they are, "specious", and disturbingly ignorant, at best.
This seems to have been a problem, on-going, in many casual, global
assertions about
'Art', and, about 'Craft'...or, as respect what some suppose to be or
qualify their distinction, and, their difference.
Way too subjectively distorted, narrating a very narrowly abstract and
imaginary example of something private, and not seen by or described to the
reader, and not
liable to be replicable in any sensible person's experience.
Just what is it that 'Grayson' imagines himself to be describing???
'...art-is-the-bit...'???
Oye...
Horrible...
Love,
Phil
Lv
----- Original Message -----
From: "May Luk"
James;
Thumbs up! a.k.a. "LIKE" in Facebook.
Recently from Grayson Perry. "...craft is something you can teach and art i=
s
the bit that is very personal to each artist."
James Freeman on sun 20 sep 09
On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Steve Slatin wrote=
:
> Phil -- you know, Phil, I love 'ya, but
> art is a noun. .
>
> But "to art?" I can't see it.
>
> Now, a "quality which animates a verb" would
> be an adverb. Many are the -ly ending words
> (that is, run quickly, smile happily, etc.)
> I can't think of a usage of 'art' that's
> an adverb.
>
>
Hi, Steve...
Not that it matters a whit, but our language is replete with examples of
employing as verbs, words that are ordinarily classified as nouns, and vice
versa. The practice is called "anthimeria", and while clumsy and inelegant=
,
it is nonetheless commonplace. Examples that come readily to mind (my
semi-addled mind at this very late hour) are such "verbed" nouns such as
"Googled" (I just Googled the definition of "anthimeria"), "texted" (I just
texted Steve the definition of "anthimeria"), and "instant messaged" (Steve
just IM'ed me the definition of "pedantic").
For a long time, there was a message on the board in the hall of the art
building at the local college that read, "It smells like someone arted in
here". I wanted to call my new show "Someone Arted", but felt that
Pareidolia said the same thing, but in a somewhat less lowbrow manner.
By the way, you wrote quite "artistically".
Time to finish "beering" myself (a lovely locally brewed I.P.A. from scenic
Ypsilanti, Michigan), then off to the land of nod.
All the best.
...James
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I should
not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/clayart/
Elizabeth Priddy on sun 20 sep 09
The distinction between artist and craftsman is in innovation.
The artist creates new work from whole cloth. =3DA0The craftsman makes qual=
it=3D
y work from materials. =3DA0The artist has to create a new thing in the wor=
ld=3D
to be doing their assigned task. =3DA0The craftsman has to be making an it=
em=3D
with quality workmanship and materials.
Neither one is a better person, but frequently people will pay more for one=
=3D
than the other's product of their work.
Elizabeth Priddy
=3D0ABeaufort, NC - USA
=3D0A
--- On Sat, 9/19/09, Eva Gallagher wrote:
From: Eva Gallagher
Subject: Re: Everyone on Clayart is proud to be a fine artist!
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Saturday, September 19, 2009, 7:57 PM
If everyone is an artist, then it is just a human trait as talking, singing=
=3D
,
running etc. Now there are some people who call themselves orators, singers=
=3D
,
runners - can we all call ourselves those as well? In all other abilities,
those titles are conferred when skill is above average. So an artist should
be something that is above average - different from the average human due t=
=3D
o
genes, hard work and/or training/education.
Just my 2 cents -
Eva Gallagher
Deep River, Ontario
=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A
Philip Poburka on sun 20 sep 09
Hi Vince...James...all...
Far as I can tell-
'Art'...is a verb...or a quality which animates the 'verb'.
The moment it becomes a noun...we have gotten onto the wrong track of how w=
e
are seeing.
Possibly, this alone may account for much of the confusion.
A 'Work of Art' may be a 'noun' (by a banalifying definition, itself,
already an error, if a convention )...but 'Art', no...
Art is the where-by-which, a work-of-Art is done....never the 'work' itself=
.
Love,
Phil
Lv
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vince Pitelka"
> James Freeman wrote:
> "I believe that "Artist" is a judgment to be conferred by
> history and posterity, while you and others believe that it is a simple
> job
> description."
>
> James -
> You've got me worried here. I have read your posts carefully and feel
> that
> I have responded accordingly, but I wonder if you have done the same,
> because I never said that the term "artist" is a simple job description,
> and
> I don't believe that anyone else has said it. To say so would in fact
> demean
> the term. My contention is that anyone who makes art should proudly clai=
m
> the title "artist." What could be simpler, and how could that be wrong?
> And how could that make the term meaningless? In fact, it enhances the
> scope
> and meaning of the term.
>
> Art certainly is something grand and noble when it is done well, but if
> you
> say that only those who create grand and noble art can be called
> "artists,"
> you keep art as something lofty and unapproachable for most people in
> terms
> of personal involvement. That serves no one.
>
> You said:
> "If everything is Art, then nothing is Art."
>
> James, you write beautifully, and you have a sharp and incisive mind, but
> sometimes you come to conclusions that seem out of left field. The above
> is
> an example. How did you distill from this conversation any implication
> that
> "art is everything?" Certainly some artists create works that seem
> arbitrary in terms of non-traditional materials, process, and concept.
> That
> started with Dada almost 100 years ago when Duchamp and Man Ray and other=
s
> challenged the art world in a way that proved very healthy in the
> evolution
> of 20th century art. I contend that pushing the envelope in such a way i=
s
> essential to the ongoing evolution of art, and thus the definitions and
> parameters of art continue to be challenged. That is a very good thing,
> and
> of course only history will identify the worthwhile stuff. So, we have a
> situation where an artist can say that anything is art, but that certainl=
y
> does not meant that everything is art.
>
> Fundamentally, what it comes down to is that anyone who makes art is an
> artist. If not, what are they? One of the basic, universally accepted
> definitions of "artist" is "someone who makes art," and thus anyone who
> makes any sort of art is an artist.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft
> Tennessee Tech University
> vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Philip Poburka on sun 20 sep 09
Feeling reminded of some of the various ( if obscure) writing of Jules Henr=
y
http://www.amazon.com/sham-vulnerability-other-forms-self-destruction/dp/03=
94473558/ref=3Dsr_1_1?ie=3DUTF8&s=3Dbooks&qid=3D1253348169&sr=3D1-1
Des & Jan Howard on sun 20 sep 09
Chris
There you have it.
I call myself a potter because
I make pots & when people ask me to
make them a set of dishes I do.
No confusion.
Des
Chris Campbell wrote:
> I call myself a 'ceramic artist' because calling
> myself a potter leads to all kinds of confusion
> and people asking me to make them a set of
> dishes.
> It's not snobbery, just simpler.
--
Des & Jan Howard
Lue Pottery
Lue NSW
Australia
2850
02 6373 6419
www.luepottery.hwy.com.au
-32.656072 149.840624
Lee Love on sun 20 sep 09
On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 7:59 AM, Elizabeth Priddy wr=
=3D
ote:
> The distinction between artist and craftsman is in innovation.
> The artist creates new work from whole cloth. =3DA0The craftsman makes qu=
al=3D
ity work from >materials. =3DA0The artist has to create a new thing in the =
wo=3D
rld to be doing their assigned task.
>=3DA0The craftsman has to be making an item with quality workmanship and m=
at=3D
erials.
This is not a correct distinction. Craftsmen always use the best
techniques and materials available to them. I saw traditional
Shokunin in Mashiko using technology we do not yet have here in the
USA. One of the reasons Shino disappeared in Mino after 60 years, was
the introduction of new technology from Korea, the noborigama.
Oribe replace shino in those kilns because the more efficent design
burned cleaner. Craftsmen potters always used the best technology
available. In Japan, it was usually obtained from China or Korea.
As Mark Hewitt says in The Potter's Eye, a living tradition
takes that tradition and makes something relevant to the community he
lives in. Hamada said, the craftsman completely digests a tradition
and makes something new. The difference between post-modern art and
the craftsman is exactly Leach's criticism: The lack of a foundation
that all artist had before modern times. Often today, the artist is a
community of one and spends a lot a time talking to himself.
--
Lee Love, Minneapolis
"The tea ceremony bowl is the ceramic equivalent of a sonnet: a
small-scale, seemingly constricted form that challenges the artist to
go beyond mere technical virtuosity and find an approach that both
satisfies and transcends the conventions." -- Rob Sliberman
full essay: http://togeika.multiply.com/journal/item/273/
James Freeman on sun 20 sep 09
Yes, yes, yes! Thank you, Phil, for putting it so succinctly. I tend to
consider the word "Art" to be more of an adjective, but the idea is the
same.
Here is a line from one of my very early "artist statements":
=3D93Art=3D94 is a power that a work either possesses or does not. It is n=
ot a=3D
n
ingredient that can simply be stirred into the mix. It is not a label that
automatically attaches to an object simply because the creator calls himsel=
=3D
f
=3D93Artist=3D94.
All the best.
...James
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I should
not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/clayart/
On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 4:41 AM, Philip Poburka wrote:
> Hi Vince...James...all...
>
>
>
> Far as I can tell-
>
>
> 'Art'...is a verb...or a quality which animates the 'verb'.
>
> The moment it becomes a noun...we have gotten onto the wrong track of how
> we
> are seeing.
>
>
> Possibly, this alone may account for much of the confusion.
>
> A 'Work of Art' may be a 'noun' (by a banalifying definition, itself,
> already an error, if a convention )...but 'Art', no...
>
> Art is the where-by-which, a work-of-Art is done....never the 'work'
> itself.
>
>
>
>
> Love,
>
>
> Phil
> Lv
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Vince Pitelka"
>
> James Freeman wrote:
>> "I believe that "Artist" is a judgment to be conferred by
>> history and posterity, while you and others believe that it is a simple
>> job
>> description."
>>
>> James -
>> You've got me worried here. I have read your posts carefully and feel
>> that
>> I have responded accordingly, but I wonder if you have done the same,
>> because I never said that the term "artist" is a simple job description,
>> and
>> I don't believe that anyone else has said it. To say so would in fact
>> demean
>> the term. My contention is that anyone who makes art should proudly cla=
=3D
im
>> the title "artist." What could be simpler, and how could that be wrong?
>> And how could that make the term meaningless? In fact, it enhances the
>> scope
>> and meaning of the term.
>>
>> Art certainly is something grand and noble when it is done well, but if
>> you
>> say that only those who create grand and noble art can be called
>> "artists,"
>> you keep art as something lofty and unapproachable for most people in
>> terms
>> of personal involvement. That serves no one.
>>
>> You said:
>> "If everything is Art, then nothing is Art."
>>
>> James, you write beautifully, and you have a sharp and incisive mind, bu=
=3D
t
>> sometimes you come to conclusions that seem out of left field. The abov=
=3D
e
>> is
>> an example. How did you distill from this conversation any implication
>> that
>> "art is everything?" Certainly some artists create works that seem
>> arbitrary in terms of non-traditional materials, process, and concept.
>> That
>> started with Dada almost 100 years ago when Duchamp and Man Ray and othe=
=3D
rs
>> challenged the art world in a way that proved very healthy in the
>> evolution
>> of 20th century art. I contend that pushing the envelope in such a way =
=3D
is
>> essential to the ongoing evolution of art, and thus the definitions and
>> parameters of art continue to be challenged. That is a very good thing,
>> and
>> of course only history will identify the worthwhile stuff. So, we have =
=3D
a
>> situation where an artist can say that anything is art, but that certain=
=3D
ly
>> does not meant that everything is art.
>>
>> Fundamentally, what it comes down to is that anyone who makes art is an
>> artist. If not, what are they? One of the basic, universally accepted
>> definitions of "artist" is "someone who makes art," and thus anyone who
>> makes any sort of art is an artist.
>> - Vince
>>
>> Vince Pitelka
>> Appalachian Center for Craft
>> Tennessee Tech University
>> vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
>> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
>>
>
Snail Scott on sun 20 sep 09
On Sep 20, 2009, at 11:17 AM, Lee Love wrote:
> This is not a correct distinction. Craftsmen always use the best
> techniques and materials available to them...
No, GOOD craftsmen do that.
Like artists, they come in all grades.
-Snail
marci and rex on sun 20 sep 09
At 06:15 PM 9/18/2009, Paul Lewing wrote:
> To me
>being an artist is no more special than being an electrician.
Except that most electricians make better money :O)
marci
Lee Love on sun 20 sep 09
On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 1:27 PM, Snail Scott wr=
=3D
ote:
> On Sep 20, 2009, at 11:17 AM, Lee Love wrote:
>>
>> This is not a correct distinction. =3DA0 Craftsmen always use the best
>> techniques and materials available to them...
> No, GOOD craftsmen do that.
> Like artists, they come in all grades.
Yes. Some how, in our mythology of progress and the new, we
think that everyone before us just did it how it was always done.
Progress has always been incremental. Some of us recognize "the
shoulders of giants we stand upon" and those who do not read history
don't. That's the real difference.
--
Lee Love, Minneapolis
"The tea ceremony bowl is the ceramic equivalent of a sonnet: a
small-scale, seemingly constricted form that challenges the artist to
go beyond mere technical virtuosity and find an approach that both
satisfies and transcends the conventions." -- Rob Sliberman
full essay: http://togeika.multiply.com/journal/item/273/
Steve Slatin on sun 20 sep 09
Phil -- you know, Phil, I love 'ya, but
art is a noun. The way to (mentally) test,
in English, for verb usage is to create the
infinitive and see if it makes sense. Thus,
the word 'run' passes the test -- "to run"
is a legitimate phrase.
But "to art?" I can't see it.
Now, a "quality which animates a verb" would
be an adverb. Many are the -ly ending words
(that is, run quickly, smile happily, etc.)
I can't think of a usage of 'art' that's
an adverb.
Noun? Yes. Adjective? Yes. (As in Art
History.) But not a verb.
Steve Slatin --
--- On Sun, 9/20/09, Philip Poburka wrote:
> Hi Vince...James...all...
>
>
>
> Far as I can tell-
>
>
> 'Art'...is a verb...or a quality which animates the
> 'verb'.
Elizabeth Priddy on sun 20 sep 09
Using new technology is not innovation. =3DA0Inventing new technology is in=
no=3D
vation. =3DA0Using new technology to make the same thing you always have is=
j=3D
ust more efficient.
Just using the latest tool is not adding anything new to the lexicon. =3DA0=
It=3D
is cheap, copying.
Your comments do not make any sense with respect to my post.
Elizabeth Priddy
=3D0ABeaufort, NC - USA
=3D0A
=3D0AWorkshops and pottery online at: http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
=3D0A
=3D0APersonal Blog: http://open.salon.com/user_blog.php?uid=3D3D943
=3D0A
=3D0ANatural Instincts Conference Information:
=3D0Ahttp://downtothepottershouse.com/NaturalInstincts.html
=3D0A
=3D0AKiln pictures and such: http://www.flickr.com/photos/7973282@N03/
--- On Sun, 9/20/09, Lee Love wrote:
From: Lee Love
Subject: Re: Everyone on Clayart is proud to be a fine artist!
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Sunday, September 20, 2009, 12:17 PM
On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 7:59 AM, Elizabeth Priddy wr=
=3D
ote:
> The distinction between artist and craftsman is in innovation.
> The artist creates new work from whole cloth. =3DA0The craftsman makes qu=
al=3D
ity work from >materials. =3DA0The artist has to create a new thing in the =
wo=3D
rld to be doing their assigned task.
>=3DA0The craftsman has to be making an item with quality workmanship and m=
at=3D
erials.
This is not a correct distinction.=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0Craftsmen always use the b=
est
techniques and materials available to them.=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0I saw=3DA0 tradit=
ional
Shokunin in Mashiko using technology we do not yet have here in the
USA.=3DA0 One of the reasons Shino disappeared in Mino after 60 years, was
the introduction of new technology from Korea, the noborigama.
Oribe replace shino in those kilns because the more efficent design
burned cleaner.=3DA0 Craftsmen potters always used the best technology
available.=3DA0 In Japan, it was usually obtained from China or Korea.
=3D0A=3D0A__________________________________________________=3D0ADo You Yah=
oo!?=3D
=3D0ATired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around =3D0Ah=
ttp:=3D
//mail.yahoo.com
Snail Scott on sun 20 sep 09
On Sep 20, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Steve Slatin wrote:
> Phil -- you know, Phil, I love 'ya, but
> art is a noun. The way to (mentally) test,
> in English, for verb usage is to create the
> infinitive and see if it makes sense. Thus,
> the word 'run' passes the test -- "to run"
> is a legitimate phrase.
>
> But "to art?" I can't see it.
As per the immortal Calvin & Hobbes,
"Verbing weirds language!"
Lee Love on sun 20 sep 09
On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 6:48 PM, Elizabeth Priddy wr=
=3D
ote:
> Using new technology is not innovation. =3DA0Inventing new technology is =
in=3D
novation. =3DA0Using new technology to make the same thing you always have =
is=3D
just more efficient.
> Just using the latest tool is not adding anything new to the lexicon. =3D=
A0=3D
It is cheap, copying.
> Your comments do not make any sense with respect to my post.
>
Making new technology IS innovation. Because we have no respect for
the past, and the craftsman inventor did not write his invention down,
we think it didin't happen. It dropped out of the Sky? We are a bit
time/place/ethno centric about these things.
The other aspect is the innovation that comes from the
interface of two or more cultures. The new thing is created
spontaneously, and are not artifiically forced by individual choice.
One of the big realizations I had in Japan, was that practically all
the pottery we know about and respect came about when Japan was
influenced by China, Korea and later the West.
On the other hand, just because something is novel, does not make
it art. As a historian once said, "The fall of a civilization can be
marked when its love of novelty becomes the love of the grotesque."
This is my current status update at Facebook: "In these
days, we confuse glamor for beauty." --John O'Donohue. This is very
similar to Hamada's statement that style should not be confuse with
feeling and Coleridge's fancy vs. imagination.
Craftsmen continually innovate using the best
techniques, materials and equipment available to them. Their
innovations, unlike the novelty of post-modern artists, are usually
relevant to the community they live in. Today, Art only has to be
about self-expression. And that self is often disconnected from
place, time and community.
--
Lee Love, Minneapolis
"The tea ceremony bowl is the ceramic equivalent of a sonnet: a
small-scale, seemingly constricted form that challenges the artist to
go beyond mere technical virtuosity and find an approach that both
satisfies and transcends the conventions." -- Rob Sliberman
full essay: http://togeika.multiply.com/journal/item/273/
May Luk on sun 20 sep 09
James;
Thumbs up! a.k.a. "LIKE" in Facebook.
Recently from Grayson Perry. "...craft is something you can teach and art i=
=3D
s
the bit that is very personal to each artist."
If put on the spot, I would say I'm a designer-maker. I make what I
designed. I design according to the brief I come up with or from a client.
Have a great show, James!
May "also design stuff that I don't make and get paid for it" Luk
Brooklyn NY
P.S. The bartender here in Brooklyn just finished his B.A. in painting. He
is going to grad school. He said he needs to go back to school, so that he
can justified being a bartender.
On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 12:27 PM, James Freeman <
jamesfreemanstudio@gmail.com> wrote:
> [...]
> =3D93Art=3D94 is a power that a work either possesses or does not. It is=
not=3D
an
> ingredient that can simply be stirred into the mix. It is not a label th=
=3D
at
> automatically attaches to an object simply because the creator calls
> himself
> =3D93Artist=3D94.
>
> All the best.
>
> ...James
>
> James Freeman
>
--=3D20
http://twitter.com/MayLuk
http://www.flickr.com/groups/handmade_mugs/
Snail Scott on mon 21 sep 09
On Sep 21, 2009, at 11:00 AM, Larry Kruzan wrote:
> The problem as I see it is that there are shoddy craftsmen who pass
> themselves off as artists...
Some artists are rotten craftsmen, it's true.
Some of them make art that needs to be
well-made to accomplish what's required
of it, and they can't or don't. And that's a
damned shame.
Some of these artists don't need to be better
craftsmen than they are, however. They do
interesting worthwhile work which does not
call for a high level of craft. And that's fine.
Art does not always require a high level of
craftsmanship, but it always requires an
_appropriate_ level of craftsmanship.
-Snail
Larry Kruzan on mon 21 sep 09
Larry Kruzan wrote:
"The problem as I see it is that there are shoddy craftsmen who pass
themselves off as artists. THEY diminish YOU."
Vince Pitelka Wrote:
Larry -
No, they are just bad artists or craftsmen and they do not diminish the
worth and work of a good artist in any way. If anything, the contrast make=
s
the work of the good artist look even better.
Larry's Reply:
Hi Vince,
Sorry, But I have to disagree and offer a very real example. I was recently
in an art fair where a ceramic "artist" was selling very common commercial
slip cast items that were festooned with small commercial ceramic labels
then glazed with a clear glaze. The labels were applied so perfectly spaced
that they looked like soldiers in formation. The labels were cartoon
figures, flowers, happy faces and so on - looked like a clip art dump from
Print Master. Average price in the booth was $15 - the high was a whopping
$25. Before you say that there must have been some real artistic drive
behind the junk let me tell you what the "artist" said about her work when =
I
asked - she said that it was art because she had a AA in art from some
junior college and it was being sold at a Art Fair after all. Really, that
was what see told me, and she was selling it, lots of it. Also this was a
Juried "Art" show with a very steep booth fee in a very good venue, capital
city and so on.
Did it hurt my bottom line? No way to tell for sure but we were competing
for the same dollars. Other ceramic artists there felt much the same as I
did. She was putting her items into distinctly colored bags and I can say
that I didn't sell anything to anybody carrying one of them.
With show sales off 50% or better for most of us any charlatan sucking
dollars from real artists and craftsmen hurts where it does matter. Will we
eat this week? People who do not pay their bills from what they can sell ma=
y
see this differently. For us who live by making and selling fine craft the
contrast is VERY important.
As for comparing us to carpenters - around here they are strictly tested,
licensed, and bonded. You need a building permit to build a doghouse - whic=
h
the carpenter must list his license number to get. Considered a skilled
trade. I frankly would welcome a little of that since juries are so
uncertain.
Elizabeth Priddy on mon 21 sep 09
You should try reading things you respond to.
--- On Sun, 9/20/09, Lee Love wrote:
From: Lee Love
Subject: Re: Everyone on Clayart is proud to be a fine artist!
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Sunday, September 20, 2009, 9:51 PM
On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 6:48 PM, Elizabeth Priddy wr=
=3D
ote:
> Using new technology is not innovation. =3DA0Inventing new technology is =
in=3D
novation. =3DA0Using new technology to make the same thing you always have =
is=3D
just more efficient.
Making new technology IS innovation. =3DA0 =3DA0
=3D0A=3D0A__________________________________________________=3D0ADo You Yah=
oo!?=3D
=3D0ATired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around =3D0Ah=
ttp:=3D
//mail.yahoo.com
Lee Love on mon 21 sep 09
Folks need to call themselves as they will, but there is no need to
diminish what they chose not to call themselves.
There is nothing deficient in being a craftsman. A living tradition
must innovate and be relevant to its changing community. The
post-modern artist can learn much from the craftsman.
"Creativity is rich with unexpected possibility. Know-how is mere
fragmented mechanics which lacks tradition." --John O'Donohue
--
Lee Love, Minneapolis
"The tea ceremony bowl is the ceramic equivalent of a sonnet: a
small-scale, seemingly constricted form that challenges the artist to
go beyond mere technical virtuosity and find an approach that both
satisfies and transcends the conventions." -- Rob Sliberman
full essay: http://togeika.multiply.com/journal/item/273/
Elizabeth Priddy on mon 21 sep 09
This is what confounds me about this whole discussion.
My calling myself an artist does not diminish anyone. =3DA0I am also a good=
c=3D
raftsman. =3DA0I am also a mother. =3DA0I am also a science geek. =3DA0How =
does a=3D
ny of the rest of that diminish anyone or anything?
I keep company with potters. =3DA0I know many potters who do not want to be=
b=3D
urdened with hte responsibility of being artists. =3DA0I know many artist w=
ho=3D
do not want to be burdened with the task of making things.
I happen to make things and create art, sometimes at the same time. =3DA0Th=
is=3D
is about me and has no capacity to diminish anyone, much less intent.
People should own what they are and be proud of it.=3DA0
I am tired of people bashing artists as if being a craftsman has more integ=
=3D
rity or value. =3DA0Neither is better. =3DA0The artists whose works we appr=
ecia=3D
te 500 and 1000 years after they made their work...I would say their crafts=
=3D
manship is not in question, or we wouldn't be looking at that work now. =3D=
A0=3D
There are plenty of artists that employ the best practices and materials in=
=3D
their craftsmanship.
Elizabeth Priddy
=3D0ABeaufort, NC - USA
=3D0A
=3D0AWorkshops and pottery online at: http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
=3D0A
=3D0APersonal Blog: http://open.salon.com/user_blog.php?uid=3D3D943
=3D0A
=3D0ANatural Instincts Conference Information:
=3D0Ahttp://downtothepottershouse.com/NaturalInstincts.html
=3D0A
=3D0AKiln pictures and such: http://www.flickr.com/photos/7973282@N03/
=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A
Larry Kruzan on mon 21 sep 09
Hi Elizabeth and all,
None of the questions I have posed are directed you or your work. You =3D
ARE a
fine Artist and Craftsmen. You calling yourself either title or both is
earned, deserved, and totally descriptive of your work.=3D20
The problem as I see it is that there are shoddy craftsmen who pass
themselves off as artists. THEY diminish YOU.=3D20
How many times have you been at an Art show and overheard someone tell a
friend that they had "bought a shinny metallic bowl/vase/pot at another =3D
show
that leaked all over their table and ruined it". The clod who sold the =3D
bowl
that leaked should have never made a Raku piece that even MIGHT be used =3D
as
functional. Or have you heard of the cup that was so heavy it caused =3D
carpal
tunnel syndrome? Items sold as microwave safe that got so hot they could =
=3D
not
be touched. Or the dreaded whisper "only buy shinny things for food use =3D
-
matt finishes contain poisons", or "matt finishes fade when washed".
These are no different than the vast number of folks who come into my =3D
studio
and tell me that they know how hard it is to make pottery. I appreciate =3D
that
and know what they mean. But then they explain how they signed up for a
pottery class at XXX art center and spent 10 weeks just trying to center =
=3D
the
clay! Makes me madder than a wet hen! If they have time and inclination =3D
I
have them sit down and teach them how to center in 20 minutes. They =3D
usually
sign up for my class after that, where they will make 40-50 pieces.=3D20
Craftsmanship in all that we do as artists IS important because it not =3D
only
reflects poorly on the "artist" in question but it reflects poorly on =3D
the
ware each of us labor so hard on. As Elizabeth correctly pointed out - =3D
in
500 years nobody with know the speech, only the craft will endure.
Just the view from here - yours may be different,
Larry Kruzan
Lost Creek Pottery
www.lostcreekpottery.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Elizabeth
Priddy
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 9:14 AM
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Everyone on Clayart is proud to be a fine artist!
This is what confounds me about this whole discussion.
My calling myself an artist does not diminish anyone. =3DA0I am also a =3D
good
craftsman. =3DA0I am also a mother. =3DA0I am also a science geek. =3DA0How=
=3D
does any of
the rest of that diminish anyone or anything?
I keep company with potters. =3DA0I know many potters who do not want to =
=3D
be
burdened with hte responsibility of being artists. =3DA0I know many artist =
=3D
who
do not want to be burdened with the task of making things.
I happen to make things and create art, sometimes at the same time. =3D
=3DA0This is
about me and has no capacity to diminish anyone, much less intent.
People should own what they are and be proud of it.=3DA0
I am tired of people bashing artists as if being a craftsman has more
integrity or value. =3DA0Neither is better. =3DA0The artists whose works we
appreciate 500 and 1000 years after they made their work...I would say =3D
their
craftsmanship is not in question, or we wouldn't be looking at that work
now. =3DA0There are plenty of artists that employ the best practices and
materials in their craftsmanship.
Elizabeth Priddy
Beaufort, NC - USA
Workshops and pottery online at: http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
Personal Blog: http://open.salon.com/user_blog.php?uid=3D3D943
Natural Instincts Conference Information:
http://downtothepottershouse.com/NaturalInstincts.html
Kiln pictures and such: http://www.flickr.com/photos/7973282@N03/
Lee Love on mon 21 sep 09
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 9:14 AM, Elizabeth Priddy wr=
ote:
> This is what confounds me about this whole discussion.
> My calling myself an artist does not diminish anyone.
Elizabeth. Labeling yourself diminishes no one.
But when you say, "The distinction between artist and craftsman is in
innovation." You diminish the craftsman.
Living craft requires innovation to be relevant to the community and
to be a living path.
The studio potter is the new concept that suitably describes this
kind of craftsman.
--
Lee Love, Minneapolis
"The tea ceremony bowl is the ceramic equivalent of a sonnet: a
small-scale, seemingly constricted form that challenges the artist to
go beyond mere technical virtuosity and find an approach that both
satisfies and transcends the conventions." -- Rob Sliberman
full essay: http://togeika.multiply.com/journal/item/273/
May Luk on mon 21 sep 09
Hiya Phil;
Not being a practitioner of art, I don't know what I don't know. Art is lik=
e
the X-factor, I suppose.
I wish it were as simple as this:
http://cheeseorfont.mogrify.org/play
Or this:
http://steakhouseorgaybar.com/
You click on your choice and instantly find out yay or nay and who is
thinking the same way you do and if you are right or wrong.
I shouldn't have stepped into this conversation, but last night, I was
trying to procrastinate from doing my New York sales tax which is due today=
.
May
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 1:20 AM, Philip Poburka wrote:
> Hi May, all...
>
> [...]
>
> This seems to have been a problem, on-going, in many casual, global
> assertions about
> 'Art', and, about 'Craft'...or, as respect what some suppose to be or
> qualify their distinction, and, their difference.
>
>
> Way too subjectively distorted, narrating a very narrowly abstract and
> imaginary example of something private, and not seen by or described to t=
he
> reader, and not
> liable to be replicable in any sensible person's experience.
>
>
> Just what is it that 'Grayson' imagines himself to be describing???
>
>
> '...art-is-the-bit...'???
>
>
>
> Oye...
>
>
> Horrible...
>
>
>
>
> Love,
>
>
> Phil
> Lv
>
>
gayle bair on mon 21 sep 09
Thanks Elizabeth, well put!
I was and will continue to stay out pretty much of this discussion as
I consider it a moot point.
The only thing I will say is I know and am confident in who/what I am.
My work is the sole testament. The subjective opinions of others
doesn't sway what I know.
Trust me I am my own worst critic. The piece I made last week, with
which I was enamored, sold within an hour upon display. This week
looking at photos of it I tore it to shreds and made the changes I
felt needed on the new one. I will do the same thing on this new one.
My designs are original and most pieces are one of a kinds. Whether
others think I am an artist/craftsman is purely subjective and I am
willing for others to love or hate my work. That said I remain
confident.
I was/am considered an artist by others, been drawing/painting/
printmaking/calligraphy/quilting/ etc. all my life, went to art
schools, received BFA from an Phila College of Art, take workshops &
classes, teach and share what I have learned. I make much less an
issue about it than has been made here on this thread.
My surface just happens to be clay. I was an artist before clay I see
no reason that I need to give up what I am because I changed the
medium or someone has an issue about the word "artist".
Gayle Bair -artist OR user of clay, maker of lots of things and draw-
er on them to make them mighty purtty....
Puleese give me a break already!!!
Bainbridge Island WA
Tucson AZ
gayle@claybair.com
www.claybair.com
On Sep 21, 2009, at 7:14 AM, Elizabeth Priddy wrote:
> This is what confounds me about this whole discussion.
> My calling myself an artist does not diminish anyone. I am also a
> good craftsman. I am also a mother. I am also a science geek. How
> does any of the rest of that diminish anyone or anything?
> I keep company with potters. I know many potters who do not want to
> be burdened with hte responsibility of being artists. I know many
> artist who do not want to be burdened with the task of making
> things.Snip>
>
>
>
>
>
Vince Pitelka on mon 21 sep 09
Larry Kruzan wrote:
"The problem as I see it is that there are shoddy craftsmen who pass
themselves off as artists. THEY diminish YOU."
Larry -
No, they are just bad artists or craftsmen and they do not diminish the
worth and work of a good artist in any way. If anything, the contrast make=
s
the work of the good artist look even better. Does a bad carpenter diminis=
h
the work of a good carpenter? Only to someone who places all carpenters in
the same category and refuses to recognize differences in skill among them.
What logic would there be in that? In fact, the work of the bad carpenter
leads people back to the good carpenter again and again, and the same with =
a
good artist or craftsperson. This is pretty straightforward.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Dave Lyons on mon 21 sep 09
In looking over the bottom line in my books, I've decided that this
discussion should be solved by others with a higher pay grade. I'll just
busy myself making pots thank-you.
Dave Lyons
-----Original Message----
May wrote:
I shouldn't have stepped into this conversation, but last night, I was
trying to procrastinate from doing my New York sales tax which is due today=
.
Steve Slatin on tue 22 sep 09
Elizabeth, he doesn't even read the things he posts
himself -- why should he read what you post?
Steve S --
--- On Mon, 9/21/09, Elizabeth Priddy wrote:
> You should try reading things you
> respond to.
>
Vince Pitelka on tue 22 sep 09
Larry Kruzan wrote:
"Sorry, But I have to disagree and offer a very real example. I was recentl=
y
in an art fair where a ceramic "artist" was selling very common commercial
slip cast items that were festooned with small commercial ceramic labels
then glazed with a clear glaze. The labels were applied so perfectly spaced
that they looked like soldiers in formation. The labels were cartoon
figures, flowers, happy faces and so on - looked like a clip art dump from
Print Master. Average price in the booth was $15 - the high was a whopping
$25. Before you say that there must have been some real artistic drive
behind the junk let me tell you what the "artist" said about her work when =
I
asked - she said that it was art because she had a AA in art from some
junior college and it was being sold at a Art Fair after all. Really, that
was what see told me, and she was selling it, lots of it. Also this was a
Juried "Art" show with a very steep booth fee in a very good venue, capital
city and so on."
Hi Larry -
I am sorry that you had this experience, and I can imagine how disappointin=
g
it was to think you had been admitted to an art show with high standards
only to discover that they had also admitted someone making such schlock.
You really do need to bring this up with the show organizers, because it is
not fair to others in the show to have such crap included. But otherwise
this example has nothing to do with this conversation. This was a case of
flawed standards and jurying in a show that claimed to have high standards.
By admitting such trash into the show, they compromised their own standards
and diminished the worth of the show for everyone involved. Of course there
are people who do not know better and who will buy such trash, but as David
Woof pointed out (and as you pointed out when you said that no one carrying
the "trash" bags purchased work from you), the people who bought that stuff
most likely would not have bought your work anyway. I still maintain that
the existence of such work makes the better work even more obvious, but onl=
y
to those capable of discerning. Fortunately, that includes a big fraction
of the population.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
| |
|
