David Woof on tue 22 sep 09
Or RE: sellin the crap out of Crap
=3D20
Hi Larry=3D2C I think you need to step back from your fortified position an=
d =3D
read again what Vince was saying here.
=3D20
If this woman's work was really that god-awful then your work should have l=
=3D
ooked better. And Frankly=3D2C I would not want my work going to the same =
ho=3D
me as someone's tasteless crap if indeed it were tasteless crap=3D2C and th=
is=3D
does get real subjective anyway.
=3D20
I seriously doubt that those who buy Grammas' bloomers on a stick yard art =
=3D
and ceramic decoupage would/could buy your "art" anyway. So how were you sh=
=3D
aring the same dollars. =3D20
=3D20
These people are buying for "acquisition" to fill some emptyness in their b=
=3D
eing and with $100.00 in their pocket they will always buy ten pieces of cu=
=3D
te rather than one or two nice pieces of well crafted pottery. After the ne=
=3D
xt sale the stuff they buy today will end up in that growing pile in the ga=
=3D
rage or shed out back and the new infatuations will last same.
=3D20
On the other hand=3D2C what is the difference between buying commercially p=
ro=3D
duced canvas to paint on=3D2C or buying commercially produced or hiring thr=
ow=3D
ers for ceramic vessels that one then has their way with artfully=3D2C inte=
re=3D
stingly=3D2C beautifully=3D2C or crappy depending on the perspective of the=
vie=3D
wer? Or the person in the next booth nursing a plate of sour grapes? =3D20
=3D20
We must be concerned that the collective "WE" do not academize the Ceramic =
=3D
Arts and stifle new thought and expression which may start out tentative an=
=3D
d undeveloped and in time become the new thing considered of value or that =
=3D
the majority flock to as a fad. If it is a matter of survival=3D2C ride th=
e =3D
wave=3D2C take the "stupid" idea and see what else or how else it could bec=
om=3D
e better. Some very respected "real artists" historical and present have "=
=3D
hacked" at times to survive and stay in there to get to the next level.
=3D20
Got to admit=3D2C she was sellin the crap out of her stuff because someone =
wa=3D
s buying. There is a stand just around the corner selling sour grapes on ro=
=3D
asted crow an sometimes we gotta eat.
=3D20
Relax=3D2C Stay loose=3D2C stay alert=3D2C adapt=3D2C=3D20
=3D20
David Woof
________________________________________________________________________
2.2. Re: Everyone on Clayart is proud to be a fine artist!
Posted by: "Larry Kruzan" larry_kruzan@COMCAST.NET=3D20
Date: Mon Sep 21=3D2C 2009 9:37 pm ((PDT))
=3D20
Larry Kruzan wrote:
"The problem as I see it is that there are shoddy craftsmen who pass
themselves off as artists. THEY diminish YOU."
=3D20
Vince Pitelka Wrote:
Larry -
No=3D2C they are just bad artists or craftsmen and they do not diminish the
worth and work of a good artist in any way. If anything=3D2C the contrast m=
ak=3D
es
the work of the good artist look even better.
=3D20
Larry's Reply:
=3D20
Hi Vince=3D2C
Sorry=3D2C But I have to disagree and offer a very real example. I was rece=
nt=3D
ly
in an art fair where a ceramic "artist" was selling very common commercial
slip cast items that were festooned with small commercial ceramic labels
then glazed with a clear glaze. The labels were applied so perfectly spaced
that they looked like soldiers in formation. The labels were cartoon
figures=3D2C flowers=3D2C happy faces and so on - looked like a clip art du=
mp f=3D
rom
Print Master. Average price in the booth was $15 - the high was a whopping
$25. Before you say that there must have been some real artistic drive
behind the junk let me tell you what the "artist" said about her work when =
=3D
I
asked - she said that it was art because she had a AA in art from some
junior college and it was being sold at a Art Fair after all. Really=3D2C t=
ha=3D
t
was what see told me=3D2C and she was selling it=3D2C lots of it. Also this=
was=3D
a
Juried "Art" show with a very steep booth fee in a very good venue=3D2C cap=
it=3D
al
city and so on.
=3D20
Did it hurt my bottom line? No way to tell for sure but we were competing
for the same dollars. Other ceramic artists there felt much the same as I
did. She was putting her items into distinctly colored bags and I can say
that I didn't sell anything to anybody carrying one of them.
=3D20
=3D0A=3D
_________________________________________________________________=3D0A=3D
Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that=3D92s right for you.=3D0A=
=3D
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=3D3Dftp_val_wl_290=3D
gayle bair on tue 22 sep 09
Larry,
The real issue here is that she was juried into the show with work she
did not make but assembled.
You should take the issue up with the Art Fair officials and let them
know how it diminishes the quality and reputation of the show.
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island WA
Tucson AZ
gayle@claybair.com
www.claybair.com
On Sep 22, 2009, at 7:57 AM, David Woof wrote:
> Larry's Reply:
>
> Hi Vince,
> Sorry, But I have to disagree and offer a very real example. I was
> recently
> in an art fair where a ceramic "artist" was selling very common
> commercial
> slip cast items that were festooned with small commercial ceramic
> labels
> then glazed with a clear glaze. The labels were applied so perfectly
> spaced
> that they looked like soldiers in formation. The labels were cartoon
> figures, flowers, happy faces and so on - looked like a clip art
> dump from
> Print Master. Average price in the booth was $15 - the high was a
> whopping
> $25. Before you say that there must have been some real artistic drive
> behind the junk let me tell you what the "artist" said about her
> work when I
> asked - she said that it was art because she had a AA in art from some
> junior college and it was being sold at a Art Fair after all.
> Really, that
> was what see told me, and she was selling it, lots of it. Also this
> was a
> Juried "Art" show with a very steep booth fee in a very good venue,
> capital
> city and so on.
>
> Did it hurt my bottom line? No way to tell for sure but we were
> competing
> for the same dollars. Other ceramic artists there felt much the same
> as I
> did. She was putting her items into distinctly colored bags and I
> can say
> that I didn't sell anything to anybody carrying one of them.
Chris Campbell on tue 22 sep 09
That's the biggest problem with tasteless
commercial stuff ...
it sells like crazy!
As my all time hero PT Barnum said ...
'Nobody ever went broke on bad taste.'
Chris Campbell - in North Carolina
Chris Campbell Pottery LLC
Designs in Colored Porcelain
9417 Koupela Drive
Raleigh NC 27615-2233
919-215-8644
Fax: 919-676-2062
www.ccpottery.com
http://neriagechris.blogspot.com/
KATHI LESUEUR on tue 22 sep 09
On Sep 22, 2009, at 10:57 AM, David Woof wrote:
> Or RE: sellin the crap out of Crap
>
> If this woman's work was really that god-awful then your work
> should have looked better. And Frankly, I would not want my work
> going to the same home as someone's tasteless crap if indeed it
> were tasteless crap, and this does get real subjective anyway.
>
> I seriously doubt that those who buy Grammas' bloomers on a stick
> yard art and ceramic decoupage would/could buy your "art" anyway.
> So how were you sharing the same dollars.>>
I used to do a show called the Cedarhurst Craft Fair in Illinois. I
sold well. So, did the guy selling Rudolph complete with a light up
nose, on a stick. I wanted one. Thought they were cool. My customers
bought from me and him.
I, also, do an all clay show in December. There is anything and
everything in clay. Some very good. Some very bad. The first year my
job was wrapping purchases. I got a lesson in my ill-informed opinion
of customers who would pile up pots that I thought were ugly,
amateurish, and gaudy. Clearly, they had no taste. Then, after they
had piled up all of that "crap" they would put their last purchase on
the table -- one of my large, carved, $125 vases. Well, maybe they
did have taste. It was just broader than mine.
>
>
> We must be concerned that the collective "WE" do not academize the
> Ceramic Arts and stifle new thought and expression which may start
> out tentative and undeveloped and in time become the new thing
> considered of value or that the majority flock to as a fad. If it
> is a matter of survival, ride the wave, take the "stupid" idea and
> see what else or how else it could become better. Some very
> respected "real artists" historical and present have "hacked" at
> times to survive and stay in there to get to the next level.
Along side my large platters and vases you will find mugs, ikebanas,
and personal chip dips. I make a living at this and make things
people want to buy. Some are following a trend and some are from my
creative side. People buy both.
"I've been through the whole fair and yours are the best mugs by
far". Said not to me but to the maker of mugs that I thought were
lousy. Who am I to judge.
KATHI LESUEUR
http://www.lesueurclaywork.com
Chaeli Sullivan on tue 22 sep 09
Sounds like the lady in question was using good marketing skills to stay af=
=3D
loat in these=3DA0troubled economic times.
She had evidently researched the local consumer base, knew what would appea=
=3D
l to the buyer and produced a product which would=3DA0satisfy both their po=
ck=3D
etbook and their desires.
Chae
--- On Tue, 9/22/09, David Woof wrote:
Or RE: sellin the crap out of Crap
On the other hand, what is the difference between buying commercially produ=
=3D
ced canvas to paint on, or buying commercially produced or hiring throwers =
=3D
for ceramic vessels that one then has their way with artfully, interestingl=
=3D
y, beautifully, or crappy depending on the perspective of the viewer? Or th=
=3D
e person in the next booth nursing a plate of sour grapes?=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0
=3DA0 If it is a matter of survival, ride the wave, take the "stupid" idea =
an=3D
d see what else or how else it could become better.=3DA0 Some very respecte=
d =3D
"real artists" historical and present have "hacked" at times to survive and=
=3D
stay in there to get to the next level.
Got to admit, she was sellin the crap out of her stuff because someone was =
=3D
buying. There is a stand just around the corner selling sour grapes on roas=
=3D
ted crow an sometimes we gotta eat.
David Woof
________________________________________________________________________
Larry's Reply:
=3DA0Average price in the booth was $15 - the high was a whopping
$25.=3DA0 Really, that was what see told me, and she was selling it, lots o=
f =3D
it. Also this was a
Juried "Art" show with a very steep booth fee in a very good venue, capital
city and so on.
=3DA0She was putting her items into distinctly colored bags and I can say
that I didn't sell anything to anybody carrying one of them.
=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A
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