Ingeborg Foco on wed 7 oct 09
My brother in law was hospitalized for severe infection from a spider bite.
When he returned home, his wife was told to clean the area when changing th=
e
dressing with clean water and a rubbing motion nothing else.
Recently listening to NPR Talk of the Nation this subject was discussed in
great detail. A doctor said antibacterial soaps should NOT be used and
simply using clean water and a rubbing motion is adequate. I guess you are
just washing the germs away rather than killing them. Using all of the ger=
m
killing products also kills the good germs and that's where the problem
lies.
Ingeborg
who is neither a nurse nor a doctor but practicing medicine anyhow :)
On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 1:54 AM, Shula wrote:
>
> >From: Ingeborg Foco
> >Sent: Oct 6, 2009 8:28 PM
> >To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> >Subject: Re: Re; cleaning teapots 2/OT
> >
> > Actually, It is proven that plain CLEAN water and motion (rubbing you=
r
> >> hands) is effective in eliminating germs. All sorts of anticeptic
> soaps
> >> and potions are not necessary under normal cirumstances.
>
> I am a nurse and while I am aware that ordinary soap is all you need to
> effectively clean your hands, I have never heard that plain, clean water =
is
> effective. I would like to read the research that supports it.
>
>
Ingeborg Foco on wed 7 oct 09
Dear Jess,
Please reread my post. It is NOT MY opinion. My little post about
ppracticing medicine without a license was tongue in cheek...in other words
it was meant to be humorous.
I relayed what I heard on NPR from a Medical Doctor and what my sister in
law told me in regards to her husband. She was advised by the doctor and
hospital staff. I'm certain you have enormous knowledge with your 40 years
of experience. However, perhaps things are changing as they often do
especially after 40 years. My personal experience is that the medical
community is the slowest to respond to change.
We have severe problems caused by over use of antibacterial products and
penicillin. Yesterday I got my flue shot. The nurse first used a hand
sanitizer, then she put on two latex gloves and then she gave me the shot.
This is an example of over doing things. Why do you need to sanitize your
hands and then don gloves? She did this with each person who was getting a
shot.
For the record, I wash my hands with soap and water but I am not paranoid
and don't use Clorox and antibacterial stuff everywhere and my sister in
law tends not to telll lies.
Best wishes.
Ingeborg
On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Jess McKenzie wrote=
:
> I have almost 40 years experience in this area (Chem/Bio/Rad
> safety), and I must chime in to say Ingeborg is almost
> completely wrong (plain water is better than nothing, of
> course), and Shula is right on the money. There have been
> studies with those sanitizer squirts which showed them to be
> fairly effective, but soap and water almost always work best.
> BTW, 15-20 seconds may seem like a long time, but Shula is
> right on that too. Maybe singing "Happy Birthday" will work.
> ... if you do it in 15 sec.
>
> I've been reading these opinions about biosafety with
> interest. About half of them remind me of what Pliny the
> Elder told the shoemaker who tried to give him advice:
> Ne supra crepidam sutor iudicaret.
> When you give advice, remember that someone may follow it.
>
> An old army saying about giving opinions also applies here.
> Only a partial quote; this is mixed company: "Everybody's got
> one."
>
> With the best of intentions ... ~jess
> Jess M. McKenzie, PhD
>
>
>
> >From: Ingeborg Foco
> >Sent: Oct 6, 2009 8:28 PM
> >To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> >Subject: Re: Re; cleaning teapots 2/OT
> >
> > Actually, It is proven that plain CLEAN water and motion (rubbing
> > your
> >> hands) is effective in eliminating germs. All sorts of
> anticeptic
> >> soaps and potions are not necessary under normal
> cirumstances.
>
> I am a nurse and while I am aware that ordinary soap is all
> you need
> to effectively clean your hands, I have never heard that
> plain, clean
> water is effective. I would like to read the research that
> supports
> it.
>
> When I was in nursing school (5 years ago), there were
> alcohol-based
> hand sanitizers outside of each patient's rooms as well as
> sinks with
> soap in each patient's room in the hospitals in which I cared
> for
> patients. We were taught to clean our hands both before and
> after
> caring for the patient. Patients sometimes get infections
> while they
> are in the hospital. Frequent cleaning of hands via soap and
> water or
> alcohol-based hand sanitizers helps to prevent these
> infections from
> spreading from patient to patient. (We also wore gloves for
> many
> procedures and washed our hands after removing the gloves.)
> Fairly
> recently, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS)
> has
> decided that it will not reimburse hospitals for specific
> nosocomial
> infections(infections which are a result of treatment in a
> hospital or
> a healthcare service unit, but secondary to the patient's
> original
> condition), so that is another reason why you may notice more
> hand
> sanitizers around hospitals these days. Of course, some people
> do fear
> H1N1 and may now have alcohol-based sanitizers displayed more
> prominently on their desks - for theirs and your protection.
>
> By the way, when washing your hands with (ordinary) soap and
> water,
> effective hand washing includes rubbing your hands vigorously
> together
> for at least 15 to 20 seconds before rinsing off the soap.
>
> See also, CDC (Centers for Disease Control)
> http://www.cdc.gov/cleanhands/
>
> Shula, RN
> Desert Hot Springs, California USA
>
--
Sincerely,
Ingeborg
http://www.thepottersworkshop.com
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