gary navarre on fri 9 oct 09
Come to think of it Craig,
My throat arch is not a catenary but a 16" sprung arch made of alternating=
#1 & #2 arch bricks so you're right about pulling the form on a catenary a=
s soon as it is bricked it to where it will hold itself up. As I recall I p=
ulled mine just before setting the last few courses and keystone bricks.
Sorry if I gave the impression I'd use Portland cement in the lag. I've st=
ated many times mine is 50/50 EPK/fireclay with 10% kyanite/mulite or fine =
grog for the hot face and increasing amounts of fireclay and sand for outer=
layers of the chamber or the firebox and stack. For some larger gaps in th=
e hot face I added castable to wet lag and cast a filler instead of cutting=
a brick to fit that would set up like cement but it is not Portland cement=
. Once fired it amounts to a firebrick in structure and insulating properti=
es. There is no concrete or cement anywhere in my design so the entire kiln=
can be recycled and rebuilt without being contaminated with non-refractory=
materials. The foundation is stone and gravel and can be used for a fire p=
it or covered with dirt and make a well drained camp site if I move. I don'=
t know what a slab would have cost but I'll not be out those hundreds of do=
llars, I invested in more bricks and other materials instead.
Gary Navarre
Navarre Pottery
Navarre Enterprises
Norway, Michigan, USA
http://www.youtube.com/GindaUP
http://public.fotki.com/GindaUP/
--- On Fri, 10/9/09, Craig Edwards wrote:
> From: Craig Edwards
> Subject: Re: [Clayart] Catenary Arch Form
> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Date: Friday, October 9, 2009, 1:00 PM
> Hello Doug and Gary: You most
> definitely should be able to take the form out
> right away. The Catanary arch does not need mortar to bond
> it together... it
> is free standing on it's own. I use mortar not as a bond
> but as a seal. If
> you take out the form and things are moving around ... you
> have done
> something wrong with your calculations and I would correct
> them immediately.
> Gary you mention using Portland cement... I would strongly
> recommend against
> it. A ball clay or fireclay for mortar is all you need. I
> hope this helps
> and good fires!
>
>
>
> --
> Make Good Pots
> ~Craig
> New London MN
> http://woodfiredpottery.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 9:36 AM, gary navarre
> wrote:
>
> > Doug, I'd leave the form in for a while and let it set
> up. When I made the
> > throat arch I pulled the form and 20 minutes later was
> hustling to reset it
> > as things were moving around. Of course my mortar was
> all clay so it took
> > longer than clay and Portland cement or refractory
> cement.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Doug Trott on fri 9 oct 09
So just when do you remove the form? As soon as the arch is complete? Wai=
t
a day? Wait until the mortar has completely set?
I was planning on yanking the thing out as soon as the arch was joined at
the top - but I tend toward optimism!
Couldn't quite get it built Thursday (quit after 14 hours straight). It's
sitting out there with an electric heater on the inside and an electric
blanket on the outside, in hopes of keeping the mortar from freezing.
Doug
Steve Irvine on fri 9 oct 09
Doug,
There's no harm in leaving the arch form in place for as long as you
like, but it should be okay to remove the form as soon as all of the
bricks are in place, regardless of whether the mortar has set. The
bricks should all lock into place, and since this is a catenary there's
no iron work to install before removing the form.
Steve
http://www.steveirvine.com
> So just when do you remove the form? As soon as the arch is complete?
> Wait
> a day? Wait until the mortar has completely set?
Craig Edwards on fri 9 oct 09
Congratulations on finishing the arch!!! You can take the form out anytime
after it is complete. Removing the form and seeing the arch standing is lik=
e
watching a miracle, something to enjoy and savory for a long time!!!!
Make Good Pots
~Craig
New London MN
http://woodfiredpottery.blogspot.com/
On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 1:11 AM, Doug Trott wrote:
> So just when do you remove the form? As soon as the arch is complete?
> Wait
> a day? Wait until the mortar has completely set?
>
> I was planning on yanking the thing out as soon as the arch was joined at
> the top - but I tend toward optimism!
>
> Couldn't quite get it built Thursday (quit after 14 hours straight). It'=
s
> sitting out there with an electric heater on the inside and an electric
> blanket on the outside, in hopes of keeping the mortar from freezing.
>
> Doug
>
gary navarre on fri 9 oct 09
Doug, I'd leave the form in for a while and let it set up. When I made the =
=3D
throat arch I pulled the form and 20 minutes later was hustling to reset it=
=3D
as things were moving around. Of course my mortar was all clay so it took =
=3D
longer than clay and Portland cement or refractory cement.=3D0A=3D0A An ele=
ctri=3D
c blanket eh? Pretty slick dude. Hope it works, I don't know if charcoal in=
=3D
coffee cans is cheaper per hour than an electric heater for inside but if =
=3D
it could be I might try that to keep my load from freezing. I hear those li=
=3D
ttle ceramic heaters put out pretty good for a small area.=3D0A =3D0AGary =
Nava=3D
rre=3D0ANavarre Pottery=3D0ANavarre Enterprises=3D0ANorway, Michigan, USA=
=3D0Ahttp:=3D
//www.youtube.com/GindaUP=3D0Ahttp://public.fotki.com/GindaUP/=3D0A=3D0A=3D=
0A--- On=3D
Fri, 10/9/09, Doug Trott wrote:=3D0A=3D0A> From: Doug =
Trot=3D
t =3D0A> Subject: [Clayart] Catenary Arch Form=3D0A> To:=
Cla=3D
yart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=3D0A> Date: Friday, October 9, 2009, 1:11 AM=3D0A> So=
jus=3D
t when do you remove the=3D0A> form?=3DA0 As soon as the arch is complete?=
=3DA0 W=3D
ait=3D0A> a day?=3DA0 Wait until the mortar has completely set?=3D0A> =3D0A=
> I was =3D
planning on yanking the thing out as soon as the arch=3D0A> was joined at=
=3D0A>=3D
the top - but I tend toward optimism!=3D0A> =3D0A> Couldn't quite get it b=
uilt=3D
Thursday (quit after 14 hours=3D0A> straight).=3DA0 It's=3D0A> sitting out=
there=3D
with an electric heater on the inside and=3D0A> an electric=3D0A> blanket =
on t=3D
he outside, in hopes of keeping the mortar from=3D0A> freezing.=3D0A> =3D0A=
> Doug=3D
=3D0A> =3D0A=3D0A=3D0A
Craig Edwards on fri 9 oct 09
Hello Doug and Gary: You most definitely should be able to take the form ou=
t
right away. The Catanary arch does not need mortar to bond it together... i=
t
is free standing on it's own. I use mortar not as a bond but as a seal. If
you take out the form and things are moving around ... you have done
something wrong with your calculations and I would correct them immediately=
.
Gary you mention using Portland cement... I would strongly recommend agains=
t
it. A ball clay or fireclay for mortar is all you need. I hope this helps
and good fires!
--
Make Good Pots
~Craig
New London MN
http://woodfiredpottery.blogspot.com/
On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 9:36 AM, gary navarre
wrote:
> Doug, I'd leave the form in for a while and let it set up. When I made th=
e
> throat arch I pulled the form and 20 minutes later was hustling to reset =
it
> as things were moving around. Of course my mortar was all clay so it took
> longer than clay and Portland cement or refractory cement.
>
>
>
>
David on sat 10 oct 09
I am in the final stages of building an 8 meter long catenary kiln. One arc=
h form moved about 6 times. I yanked it out of there as fast as I could. I =
did have to disassemble it once because there was no room to go to get it o=
ut of there.
I used S.K. 32 mortar, here in Japan, who would of thunk it.
This morning I lit the fire in my other kiln, a two chamber noborigama. I a=
m firing it for the first time without temperature probes. If anyone is int=
erested in following the firing I am posting updates on twitter at http://t=
witter.com/togeii
Dave
http://togeii.wordpress.com/
Lee Love on sat 10 oct 09
On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 1:00 PM, Craig Edwards wro=
te:
> something wrong with your calculations and I would correct them immediate=
ly.
> Gary you mention using Portland cement... I would strongly recommend agai=
nst
> it. A ball clay or fireclay for mortar is all you need. I hope this helps
> and good fires!
In Japan, I used a coarse fireclay. I knew it would have to be moved
someday, and unlike brick mortar, it cleans up easily. When Matt
moved the kiln to his house, brick clean up was very easy.
--
Lee Love, Minneapolis
"The tea ceremony bowl is the ceramic equivalent of a sonnet: a
small-scale, seemingly constricted form that challenges the artist to
go beyond mere technical virtuosity and find an approach that both
satisfies and transcends the conventions." -- Rob Sliberman
full essay: http://togeika.multiply.com/journal/item/273/
Lee Love on sat 10 oct 09
On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 1:11 AM, Doug Trott wrote:
> Couldn't quite get it built Thursday (quit after 14 hours straight). =3DA=
0I=3D
t's
> sitting out there with an electric heater on the inside and an electric
> blanket on the outside, in hopes of keeping the mortar from freezing.
Got photos? Lovely dusting of white on the ground this morning.
--
Lee Love, Minneapolis
"The tea ceremony bowl is the ceramic equivalent of a sonnet: a
small-scale, seemingly constricted form that challenges the artist to
go beyond mere technical virtuosity and find an approach that both
satisfies and transcends the conventions." -- Rob Sliberman
full essay: http://togeika.multiply.com/journal/item/273/
Doug Trott on sat 10 oct 09
I didn't do a concrete pad either. Dug down a foot and a half, then filled
with class 5 gravel, compressing every 4 inches or so. Took care to make m=
y
first layer of cement blocks level (took forever!), and then let them sit
for a couple weeks to make sure they wouldn't move. Seems to me that a
concrete pad is less important than the site preparation underneath, and if
the ground settles and the pad tilts, how would I repair that?
Lee, I don't have anywhere to upload photos yet, but my wife is taking some
and putting them up on her facebook page (Robin Trott). After I start
producing with this kiln I will create a web presence, though I haven't yet
decided between my own site, a blog or facebook.
Thanks to everyone for the confirmation! I hope the snow melts today, and
then perhaps tomorrow I can finish the arch.
Doug
On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 10:48 PM, gary navarre
wrote:
>
> ...The foundation is stone and gravel and can be used for a fire pit or
> covered with dirt and make a well drained camp site if I move. I don't kn=
ow
> what a slab would have cost but I'll not be out those hundreds of dollars=
, I
> invested in more bricks and other materials instead.
>
>
>
| |
|
