mdeadmon on sun 11 oct 09
Am going to start working with a group of people who have never worked wi=
=3D
th
clay or on a wheel before, but who are very interested in taking some=3D20
lessons"....here is my dilemma...=3D0D
I am right handed...I was given a few lessons several years ago by a righ=
=3D
t
handed person on a right handed wheel....after about 5 lessons, I bought =
=3D
a
big boss, put it together and was happy as a clam.....threw on it for
several weeks...went back to her house to throw some new clay she had got=
=3D
ten
sat down, and started up the wheel, not paying any attention until I wen=
=3D
t
to center the clay...whoa, the wheel was going counterclockwise! I asked =
=3D
her
if she had switched directions on it, but no, it was the same as always..=
=3D
=3D2E
so, fact one: I had 5 lessons on a counterclockwise wheel...fact 2: bough=
=3D
t a
clockwise wheel without knowing it or NOTICING it, and have been throwing=
=3D
on
it for about 3 years now...=3D0D
I am right handed, throw left handed, and now am going to give lessons to
people that most likely are right handed...HOW THE HECK DO YOU DO THAT? I
have tried to throw right handed....aint gonna happen....someone said to =
=3D
put
the student wheel nose to nose with your wheel, and then when they watch =
=3D
u,
they are seeing it the way they should be doing it....is that right? =3D0D
Do real teachers throw both ways? =3D0D
Am getting a Artista table top or some type of table top and need to get
either left or right handed....if I am going to use it, it needs to be le=
=3D
ft
handed...if they are going to use it,(which it is for the class) then it
needs to be right handed....=3D0D
HELP! =3D0D
I really do pay attention to things I do, so have no clue as to how I wen=
=3D
t
from counterclockwise to clockwise and not even notice it...=3D0D
=3D0D
Thanks!
Gwynneth Rixon on sun 11 oct 09
Hi=3D2C I am left hand biased=3D2C but use both hands. I throw on a kickwhe=
el=3D
=3D2C but have never thought of reversing it=3D2C as then I'd be leaning ov=
er t=3D
he side I kick with....
My hands are either on the right hand side=3D2C one in and one outside the =
po=3D
t=3D2C often the left is doing the work and the right is doing the supporti=
ng=3D
act. Or they are together on the near or far side of the clay to me.
Being a mirror image to the student makes sense=3D2C but so does pointing o=
ut=3D
that we have a pair of hands=3D2C and you do what feels right.
Gwynneth
> Date: Sun=3D2C 11 Oct 2009 05:44:48 -0400
> From: mdeadmon@WINDSTREAM.NET
> Subject: Right handed lefty teaching right handers
> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>=3D20
> Am going to start working with a group of people who have never worked wi=
=3D
th
> clay or on a wheel before=3D2C but who are very interested in taking some=
=3D20
> lessons"....here is my dilemma...
>=3D20
> I am right handed...I was given a few lessons several years ago by a righ=
=3D
t
> handed person on a right handed wheel....after about 5 lessons=3D2C I bou=
gh=3D
t a
> big boss=3D2C put it together and was happy as a clam.....threw on it for
> several weeks...went back to her house to throw some new clay she had got=
=3D
ten
> sat down=3D2C and started up the wheel=3D2C not paying any attention unt=
il I=3D
went
> to center the clay...whoa=3D2C the wheel was going counterclockwise! I as=
ke=3D
d her
> if she had switched directions on it=3D2C but no=3D2C it was the same as =
alwa=3D
ys...
> so=3D2C fact one: I had 5 lessons on a counterclockwise wheel...fact 2: b=
ou=3D
ght a
> clockwise wheel without knowing it or NOTICING it=3D2C and have been thro=
wi=3D
ng on
> it for about 3 years now...
>=3D20
> I am right handed=3D2C throw left handed=3D2C and now am going to give le=
sson=3D
s to
> people that most likely are right handed...HOW THE HECK DO YOU DO THAT? I
> have tried to throw right handed....aint gonna happen....someone said to =
=3D
put
> the student wheel nose to nose with your wheel=3D2C and then when they wa=
tc=3D
h u=3D2C
> they are seeing it the way they should be doing it....is that right? =3D2=
0
>=3D20
> Do real teachers throw both ways? =3D20
>=3D20
> Am getting a Artista table top or some type of table top and need to get
> either left or right handed....if I am going to use it=3D2C it needs to b=
e =3D
left
> handed...if they are going to use it=3D2C(which it is for the class) then=
i=3D
t
> needs to be right handed....
>=3D20
> HELP! =3D20
>=3D20
> I really do pay attention to things I do=3D2C so have no clue as to how I=
w=3D
ent
> from counterclockwise to clockwise and not even notice it...
>=3D20
> =3D20
>=3D20
> Thanks!
=3D0A=3D
_________________________________________________________________=3D0A=3D
Access your other email accounts and manage all your email from one place.=
=3D
=3D0A=3D
http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/167688463/direct/01/=3D
William & Susan Schran User on sun 11 oct 09
On 10/11/09 5:44 AM, "mdeadmon" wrote:
> I am right handed, throw left handed, and now am going to give lessons to
> people that most likely are right handed...HOW THE HECK DO YOU DO THAT? I
> have tried to throw right handed....aint gonna happen....someone said to =
put
> the student wheel nose to nose with your wheel, and then when they watch =
u,
> they are seeing it the way they should be doing it....is that right?
> Do real teachers throw both ways?
> Am getting a Artista table top or some type of table top and need to get
> either left or right handed....if I am going to use it, it needs to be le=
ft
> handed...if they are going to use it,(which it is for the class) then it
> needs to be right handed....
> HELP!
> I really do pay attention to things I do, so have no clue as to how I wen=
t
> from counterclockwise to clockwise and not even notice it...
You wrote the Big Boss wheel you bought only goes clockwise.
I think that wheel doesn't have a reversing switch, but does have a
reversing plug to have it operate in either direction.
I teach all of my students with wheel rotating counter-clockwise, or
right-handed throwing. For most folks having never thrown before, it doesn'=
t
seem to matter which direction the wheel goes. If any seem to struggle, I
ask if they are left-handed and have them try throwing clockwise to see if
that feels more comfortable for them. If they decide to go with left-handed
throwing, then I do demos with them throwing left-handed.
I would suggest you see about changing to counter-clockwise rotation and
teaching that because that is the instruction the students will get from
others.
Bill
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Vince Pitelka on sun 11 oct 09
Mdeadmon wrote:
"I am right handed, throw left handed, and now am going to give lessons to
people that most likely are right handed...HOW THE HECK DO YOU DO THAT? I
have tried to throw right handed....aint gonna happen....someone said to pu=
t
the student wheel nose to nose with your wheel, and then when they watch u,
they are seeing it the way they should be doing it....is that right?"
Mdeadmon -
I do not know of a single teacher who throws both ways. Early in the 20th
century, the potters of the Niloak Arts and Crafts pottery had to be able t=
o
throw both ways - that's how they got their distinctive marbleized colored
clay pots that often don't look like stereotypical Swirlware. I suppose a
student could sit right in front of you and do the mirror image of what you
are doing, but most students are sitting off to the side, and a lot of
students like to stand next to you and slightly behind you to watch what yo=
u
are doing. Those students are going to have to transpose everything and
attempt to do it backwards from the way you are doing it, which doesn't see=
m
a fair or appropriate expectation. It is a shame that you somehow got mixe=
d
up at first and started throwing clockwise. If you really stuck with it,
you could successfully change to right-handed throwing. I have seen people
do it after many years of throwing left-handed. It will feel very awkward
at first, but I think that it will happen very fast after the initial perio=
d
of awkwardness.
Occasionally I have heard of a left-handed person who insisted that they
could only throw left-handed, but I think that in cases like that it is jus=
t
a stubborn mindset. The reality is that when we are throwing or playing the
guitar, both hands are doing important things requiring a high level of
manual dexterity, and it just doesn't make much sense learn throwing or
guitar playing completely backwards from the way everyone else does it. In
this situation you might have to just make the most of the problem, but in
the long run, if you are going to be teaching people to throw, I think you
need to be throwing right-handed.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
John Hesselberth on sun 11 oct 09
On Oct 11, 2009, at 10:04 AM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> It is a shame that you somehow got mixed
> up at first and started throwing clockwise.
Vince that's a crock. Any teacher worth his or her salt can learn to
teach throwing either clockwise or counter clockwise. Sure it takes a
little practice and thought. Any studio that has multiple wheels would
normally have a least some that are switch reversible. I'm sure you
remember a thread 3 or 4 years ago where people pointed out there are
more reasons than throwing to want the wheel to go the other way--
whichever way you throw. You are sounding like my first grade teacher
who would not let me slant my paper the "wrong" way when I was
learning to write so, like many left-handers, I write with my hand
curled around. Teachers who try to force a student into their mold
instead of playing to the student's strengths leave me cold.
Regards,
John
Earl Brunner on sun 11 oct 09
I agree with Vince, you don't do anything on the wheel one handed.=3DA0 Lef=
t =3D
or right handed, doesn't matter, it's how you learn.=3DA0 In Japan, most of=
t=3D
he wheels go the other way.=3DA0 If I was learning there, I'd be doing it t=
ha=3D
t way. I have one student right now who had already learned to throw left h=
=3D
anded, so to try to get her to change isn't worth the=3DA0effort, fortunate=
ly=3D
we have ONE=3DA0Brent wheel that has a reverse=3DA0switch, she uses it.=3D=
A0 But=3D
all other lefties if they learn from=3DA0me, learn the way=3DA0most wheels=
tur=3D
n.=3DA0 It's a mindset on their part, they think you aren't accomodating th=
ei=3D
r leftiness or something.=3DA0 Usually I can explain it.=3DA0=3DA0 Usually.=
=3D0A=3D0A=3D
We shouldn't call it right or left handed, that's what creates the confusio=
=3D
n.=3DA0 Call it clockwise, or counter-clockwise.=3D0A=3DA0Earl Brunner=3D0A=
Las Vega=3D
s, NV =3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A________________________________=3D0AFrom: V=
ince Pitelka=3D
=3D0ATo: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=3D0ASent: Sun, Octo=
ber =3D
11, 2009 7:04:57 AM=3D0ASubject: Re: Right handed lefty teaching right hand=
er=3D
s=3D0A=3D0AMdeadmon wrote:=3D0A"I am right handed, throw left handed, and n=
ow am =3D
going to give lessons to=3D0Apeople that most likely are right handed...HOW=
T=3D
HE HECK DO YOU DO THAT? I=3D0Ahave tried to throw right handed....aint gonn=
a =3D
happen....someone said to put=3D0Athe student wheel nose to nose with your =
wh=3D
eel, and then when they watch u,=3D0Athey are seeing it the way they should=
b=3D
e doing it....is that right?"=3D0A=3D0AMdeadmon -=3D0AI do not know of a si=
ngle t=3D
eacher who throws both ways.=3DA0 Early in the 20th=3D0Acentury, the potter=
s of=3D
the Niloak Arts and Crafts pottery had to be able to=3D0Athrow both ways -=
t=3D
hat's how they got their distinctive marbleized colored=3D0Aclay pots that =
of=3D
ten don't look like stereotypical Swirlware.=3DA0 I suppose a=3D0Astudent c=
ould=3D
sit right in front of you and do the mirror image of what you=3D0Aare doin=
g,=3D
but most students are sitting off to the side, and a lot of=3D0Astudents l=
ik=3D
e to stand next to you and slightly behind you to watch what you=3D0Aare do=
in=3D
g.=3DA0 Those students are going to have to transpose everything and=3D0Aat=
temp=3D
t to do it backwards from the way you are doing it, which doesn't seem=3D0A=
a =3D
fair or appropriate expectation.=3DA0 It is a shame that you somehow got mi=
xe=3D
d=3D0Aup at first and started throwing clockwise.=3DA0 If you really stuck =
with=3D
it,=3D0Ayou could successfully change to right-handed throwing.=3DA0 I hav=
e se=3D
en people=3D0Ado it after many years of throwing left-handed.=3DA0 It will =
feel=3D
very awkward=3D0Aat first, but I think that it will happen very fast after=
t=3D
he initial period=3D0Aof awkwardness.=3D0A=3D0AOccasionally I have heard of=
a lef=3D
t-handed person who insisted that they=3D0Acould only throw left-handed, bu=
t =3D
I think that in cases like that it is just=3D0Aa stubborn mindset. The real=
it=3D
y is that when we are throwing or playing the=3D0Aguitar, both hands are do=
in=3D
g important things requiring a high level of=3D0Amanual dexterity, and it j=
us=3D
t doesn't make much sense learn throwing or=3D0Aguitar playing completely b=
ac=3D
kwards from the way everyone else does it.=3DA0 In=3D0Athis situation you m=
ight=3D
have to just make the most of the problem, but in=3D0Athe long run, if you=
a=3D
re going to be teaching people to throw, I think you=3D0Aneed to be throwin=
g =3D
right-handed.=3D0A- Vince=3D0A=3D0AVince Pitelka=3D0AAppalachian Center for=
Craft=3D
=3D0ATennessee Tech University=3D0Avpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu=
=3D0Ah=3D
ttp://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka=3D0A
Vince Pitelka on sun 11 oct 09
John Hesselberth wrote:
"Vince that's a crock. Any teacher worth his or her salt can learn to
teach throwing either clockwise or counter clockwise. Sure it takes a
little practice and thought. Any studio that has multiple wheels would
normally have a least some that are switch reversible. . . . . . .
You are sounding like my first grade teacher
who would not let me slant my paper the "wrong" way when I was
learning to write so, like many left-handers, I write with my hand
curled around. Teachers who try to force a student into their mold
instead of playing to the student's strengths leave me cold.
Hi John -
Go have a beer and cheer up. I am left-handed, and write with my hand
curled around. Teachers tried to straighten it out, and during a year
living in France when I was 8, the teacher in the French boy's school tried
to make me write with my right hand until my parents interceded, and after
that he pretty much ignored me for the rest of the year, which was fine.
Those things, and your experience as a child, have nothing to do with this
conversation.
I am an accomplished guitarist, and I play the guitar right-handed and thro=
w
pots on a counter-clockwise wheel. I am very thankful that teachers advise=
d
me (never forced) to do both right-handed, because I recognize that it open=
s
up more options and possibilities. I have been teaching studio ceramics fo=
r
25 years with passion and commitment. It is all about the teacher helping
the student accomplish as much as possible and become whatever they can be
(playing to their strengths, as you say).
As I said before, when throwing, both hands are doing important things
requiring a high level of manual dexterity. It makes no sense for a
left-handed person to learn to throw left-handed and to do everything
completely backwards from all the people throwing on a counter-clockwise
wheel. It is far more a handicap than any sort of advantage, and there
simply is no net gain in it. I would never try to force anyone into a
particular mold, because that is counter to my philosophy of teaching,
education, and art. In this case, advising the left-handed student to throw
on a counter-clockwise wheel is just wise counsel, and I always give them
whatever help they need.
I hope that doesn't leave you cold.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Chris Leake on sun 11 oct 09
When I taught lefties I taught from a second wheel facing the student. Tha=
t worked well for me.
Chris
http://potterybychris.com
Snail Scott on sun 11 oct 09
On Oct 11, 2009, at 9:02 AM, William & Susan Schran User wrote:
> I teach all of my students with wheel rotating counter-clockwise, or
> right-handed throwing. For most folks having never thrown before, it
> doesn't
> seem to matter which direction the wheel goes...
Having been trained in both an Asian style
and a European style of throwing early on
in my education, I can do either, but I always
teach counterclockwise. My reason is that while
the wheels at my college are reversible, many
are not, and in their future work, my US-resident
students are quite likely to encounter one-way
wheels running CCW, but almost none running
solely clockwise.
I want to set them up for the maximum number
of opportunities when they leave my class, and
throwing CCW means a larger number of wheels
that they can potentially use without retraining.
Even if I preferred throwing CW, I'd consider it
unfair to teach them in the same manner.
-Snail
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