J Motzkin on wed 14 oct 09
A food anthropologist friend asked me this question. I am not sure I can
find out anymore about this history than I might find from inquiring at thi=
s
clayart well of info.
"I have a history question about pottery. I heard that the cup handle was
invented in either china or japan for export ware sent to Europe when they
learned that "we" drank our tea hotter than is comfy for the handle-free
cup....?????"
Any info out there?
The Jingdezhen International Ceramics Fair and Exhibition will start here o=
n
Friday night. I am enjoying my work here, my friends here, and the daily
improvement in my Chinese.
judy
--
Meizhonghua: http://motzkinchina.blogspot.com
www.motzkin.com
www.motzkin.home.comcast.net/
http:spiritkeeper-urns.com
jeanne wood on wed 14 oct 09
Kind of an interesting thing about some Medieval handles. Take a look at th=
=3D
e long-necked cup here: http://potweb.ashmolean.org/PotChron5.html=3DC2=3DA=
0 Th=3D
is would be terribly out of balance to hold. This is because it was common =
=3D
to hold the jug around the belly or shoulder with perhaps a finger in the h=
=3D
andle loop for extra security. These handles were more for hanging on pegs =
=3D
on the wall rather than raising the cup to the lip for drinking.=3DC2=3DA0 =
Liqu=3D
ids were not necessarily piping hot requiring a distance from the body of t=
=3D
he cup, ale was more common than tea.
-Jeanne W.
In Northern ID
--- On Wed, 10/14/09, Lee Love wrote:
From: Lee Love
Subject: Re: origin of handles question
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 5:35 PM
I don't know if the Greeks and Romans are relevant.=3DC2=3DA0=3DC2=3DA0=3DC=
2=3DA0I thin=3D
k the
question was:=3DC2=3DA0 " Who invented the handled teacup?"=3DC2=3DA0 =3DC2=
=3DA0=3DC2=3DA0=3D
=3DC2=3DA0I am guessing
it was the Brits.=3DC2=3DA0=3DC2=3DA0=3DC2=3DA0They were the ones to turn C=
hinese wine =3D
ewers and
medicine pots into tea pots.=3DC2=3DA0=3DC2=3DA0=3DC2=3DA0Before that time,=
in Asia, te=3D
a was
brewed in a larger bowl and then dispensed into smaller bowls or
handless cups to drink.=3DC2=3DA0 Maybe they liked the handles on the wine
ewers and on stines and mugs and thought they'd be good on tea cups.
--
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=3DC3=3DB3g ar chul an tI=3DE2=3D80=3D94tIr dlainn trina ch=
=3DC3=3DA9ile"=3D
=3DE2=3D80=3D94that is, "The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A
Marcia Selsor on wed 14 oct 09
I have seen small cups with 2 handles from the barbatine era of
Spanish pots found in Londan in the Thames.
That is about 200 C.E.
I also understood that in Buddism, there were no handles because "if
the cup was too hot to handle, the liquid was too hot to ingest".
This isn't meant to be the last word on handles, just what I have
understood from previous readings, etc.
Marcia
On Oct 13, 2009, at 8:53 PM, J Motzkin wrote:
> A food anthropologist friend asked me this question. I am not sure I
> can
> find out anymore about this history than I might find from inquiring
> at this
> clayart well of info.
>
> "I have a history question about pottery. I heard that the cup
> handle was
> invented in either china or japan for export ware sent to Europe
> when they
> learned that "we" drank our tea hotter than is comfy for the handle-
> free
> cup....?????"
>
> Any info out there?
> The Jingdezhen International Ceramics Fair and Exhibition will start
> here on
> Friday night. I am enjoying my work here, my friends here, and the
> daily
> improvement in my Chinese.
> judy
>
> --
> Meizhonghua: http://motzkinchina.blogspot.com
>
> www.motzkin.com
> www.motzkin.home.comcast.net/
> http:spiritkeeper-urns.com
>
Marcia Selsor
http://marciaselsor.com
Pottery by John on wed 14 oct 09
From the website source here:
http://tywkiwdbi.blogspot.com/2009/03/invention-of-teacup-handle.html
The European addition of sugar to tea for taste made it convenient to serve
the tea hot so the sugar would dissolve quickly, and thus a handle was adde=
d
to hold the hot cup. It also suggests that the handle was added by Europea=
n
potters as they learned to make porcelain ware. The Chinese, being
accommodating, added handles to their teabowls to meet competition.
John Lowes
Sandy Springs, Georgia
http://wynhillpottery.weebly.com/
Snail Scott on wed 14 oct 09
On Oct 13, 2009, at 8:53 PM, J Motzkin wrote:
> ...I heard that the cup handle was
> invented in either china or japan for export ware sent to Europe when
> they
> learned that "we" drank our tea hotter than is comfy for the
> handle-free
> cup...
Drinking vessels in Europe had handles long
before the importation of either tea or Asian
ceramics. In fact, in the late Middle Ages, there
was a fad for drinking vessels with multiple
handles.
I also recall handled vessels from the ancient
Near East, but I'll have to track down the
reference to be more specific.
-Snail
Lee Love on wed 14 oct 09
On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 7:25 AM, Pottery by John
wrote:
> From the website source here:
>
> http://tywkiwdbi.blogspot.com/2009/03/invention-of-teacup-handle.html
>
> The European addition of sugar to tea for taste made it convenient to ser=
ve
> the tea hot so the sugar would dissolve quickly, and thus a handle was ad=
ded
> to hold the hot cup.
This doesn't ring true to me. Sugar dissolves quickly in cold
milk. Also, because the English steep their tea so long, it cools by
the time it is pour. Then, they put cold milk in.
In Japan, they like their tea very hot. Fine tea is not
steeped very long to keep it from turning bitter. Before export, tea
was steeped in open bowls.
--
Lee Love, Minneapolis
"The tea ceremony bowl is the ceramic equivalent of a sonnet: a
small-scale, seemingly constricted form that challenges the artist to
go beyond mere technical virtuosity and find an approach that both
satisfies and transcends the conventions." -- Rob Sliberman
full essay: http://togeika.multiply.com/journal/item/273/
jeanne wood on wed 14 oct 09
Hi,
In Europe Medieval era wealthy people drank from metal. We see handles on "=
=3D
jugs" (pitchers) pretty early. But originally for the common person "jugs" =
=3D
were for pouring, serving and drinking. Individuals didn't have individual =
=3D
cups or jugs until Europe became more wealthy and influenced by the Middle =
=3D
Eastern Culture after the crusades. There are extant examples of jugs with =
=3D
handles by the 13th Century. Possibly before. The Byzantines had cups that =
=3D
look a lot like teacups nowdays, made of unglazed earthenware.
I am off to work now, but I can give you web sites & documentation when I h=
=3D
ave more time to look them up if you are interested.=3D20
Cheers,
Jeanne W.
Northern ID
--- On Tue, 10/13/09, J Motzkin wrote:
From: J Motzkin
Subject: origin of handles question
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 7:53 PM
A food anthropologist friend asked me this question. I am not sure I can
find out anymore about this history than I might find from inquiring at thi=
=3D
s
clayart well of info.
"I have a history question about pottery. I heard that the cup handle was
invented in=3DA0 either china or japan for export ware sent to Europe when =
th=3D
ey
learned that "we" drank our tea hotter than is comfy for the handle-free
cup....?????"
Any info out there?
The Jingdezhen International Ceramics Fair and Exhibition will start here o=
=3D
n
Friday night. I am enjoying my work here, my friends here, and the daily
improvement in my Chinese.
judy
--
Meizhonghua: http://motzkinchina.blogspot.com
www.motzkin.com
www.motzkin.home.comcast.net/
http:spiritkeeper-urns.com
=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A
lili krakowski on wed 14 oct 09
When I was a student I heard the story that some British =3D
tableware/pottery firm, decided that they wanted stuff made in China =3D
(And THAT was then, not now!) and sent a sample of a teacup and saucer.
Alledgedly some 20 years later the shipment arrived from China. And =3D
there, neatly packed were handle-less cups with a handle lying in =3D
each...The story goes that the sample cup had lost its handle in =3D
transit, that some good soul put the handle in the deprived cup--and the =
=3D
Chinese did not realize how things were supposed to go together.
I never believed that story--for all its condescending Imperialist =3D
charm! The Chinese had pots with handles, Chinese had been to Britain =3D
etc and seen the "our" cups, and so on.
The really neat part of this is that our cups started as ewers. And in =3D
many restaurants when I was a child, and in some maybe today, soup is =3D
brought to the table as a metal cup (with handle) sitting in a soup =3D
plate (as saucer).The waiter (DON'T start that "server" business with =3D
me!)would set the plate down cup and all, then pour the soup into the =3D
plate. "We" tend to forget that kitchens used to be much further from =3D
the dining room than today--food got cold en route (never mind en =3D
croute) and things like metal lids and these metal cups served a =3D
purpose.
Lili Krakowski
Be of good courage
Arnold Howard on wed 14 oct 09
Some of the pottery found in the Tutankhamun tomb had
handles.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
David Finkelnburg on wed 14 oct 09
Judy,
This is not authoritative, but I have always thought handles were just
a solution to the problem of hot liquid versus human hands. I have never
seen a tea "cup" in the Orient that did not have a trimmed foot. When such
a vessel is held by rim and foot one's hands are insulated from the hot
liquid in the vessel. The "western" solution was a handle. Same problem,
different solution, same result.
Japanese were quick to add handles to ware for export to Europe....mor=
e
a case of giving the customers what they want?
I've seen pitchers allegedly 7,000 years old...in a museum in
China...with beautiful handles, so the handle solution was not unknown, jus=
t
not chosen.
Hope you have a wonderful experience in China!
Dave Finkelnburg
On Oct 13, 2009, at 8:53 PM, J Motzkin wrote:
"I have a history question about pottery. I heard that the cup
> handle was
> invented in either china or japan for export ware sent to Europe
> when they
> learned that "we" drank our tea hotter than is comfy for the handle-
> free
> cup....?????"
Chris Campbell on wed 14 oct 09
I have just posted some pre historic
mugs from Europe with handles ...
from about the 5th millenium BC ...
http://neriagechris.blogspot.com/
Chris Campbell - in North Carolina
Chris Campbell Pottery LLC
Designs in Colored Porcelain
9417 Koupela Drive
Raleigh NC 27615-2233
919-215-8644
Fax: 919-676-2062
www.ccpottery.com
http://neriagechris.blogspot.com/
Gwynneth Rixon on wed 14 oct 09
Hmm- I learned that milk was put in first because the original cups used fo=
=3D
r tea in England couldn't withstand the thermal shock of hot tea.
Gwynneth
> Date: Wed=3D2C 14 Oct 2009 08:07:56 -0500
> From: cwiddershins@GMAIL.COM
> Subject: Re: origin of handles question
> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>=3D20
> On Wed=3D2C Oct 14=3D2C 2009 at 7:25 AM=3D2C Pottery by John
> wrote:
> > From the website source here:
> >
> > http://tywkiwdbi.blogspot.com/2009/03/invention-of-teacup-handle.html
> >
> > The European addition of sugar to tea for taste made it convenient to s=
=3D
erve
> > the tea hot so the sugar would dissolve quickly=3D2C and thus a handle =
wa=3D
s added
> > to hold the hot cup.
>=3D20
> This doesn't ring true to me. Sugar dissolves quickly in cold
> milk. Also=3D2C because the English steep their tea so long=3D2C it coo=
ls b=3D
y
> the time it is pour. Then=3D2C they put cold milk in.
>=3D20
> In Japan=3D2C they like their tea very hot. Fine tea is not
> steeped very long to keep it from turning bitter. Before export=3D2C te=
a
> was steeped in open bowls.
>=3D20
> --
> Lee Love=3D2C Minneapolis
> "The tea ceremony bowl is the ceramic equivalent of a sonnet: a
> small-scale=3D2C seemingly constricted form that challenges the artist to
> go beyond mere technical virtuosity and find an approach that both
> satisfies and transcends the conventions." -- Rob Sliberman
> full essay: http://togeika.multiply.com/journal/item/273/
=3D0A=3D
_________________________________________________________________=3D0A=3D
Use Windows Live Messenger for free on selected mobiles=3D0A=3D
http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/174426567/direct/01/=3D
Randall Moody on wed 14 oct 09
The Carlos Museum at Emory University has some early Greek or Roman cups
with handles on them. They look a great deal like coffee cups of today. I
don't believe the part about original cups in England not being able to
withstand the thermals shock of hot tea considering I have seen clay pots i=
n
Kenya, Thailand and other places being used over open flame
--
Randall in Atlanta
Randall Moody on wed 14 oct 09
Here is a link to the cups I was speaking of.
http://randallsartblog.blogspot.com/2009/10/handle-on-cups.html
--
Randall in Atlanta
Kate McCoy on wed 14 oct 09
We always put the milk in first - I was told by my "Nana" that it was so
the tea would warm the milk slowly and thus not curdle it. Back home, we
only drank tea out of bone china, which I think is very strong, no
problem with hot stuff.
Kate McCoy
Olympia, WA formerly Brummagem, UK
Gwynneth Rixon wrote:
> Hmm- I learned that milk was put in first because the original cups used =
for tea in England couldn't withstand the thermal shock of hot tea.
> Gwynneth
>
Lee Love on wed 14 oct 09
On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Randall Moody w=
=3D
rote:
> . I
> don't believe the part about original cups in England not being able to
> withstand the thermals shock of hot tea considering I have seen clay pots=
=3D
in
> Kenya, Thailand and other places being used over open flame
I agree. I thik Brits put handles on cups because it is hard to
put your pinkie in the air without them. ;^)
--=3D20
--
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D97tha=
t is, "T=3D
he
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Chaeli Sullivan on wed 14 oct 09
The Greeks used handles a coupl' a hundred years=3DA0BC.=3DA0 In many cases=
the=3D
y used 2-3 handles per cup.=3DA0 Didn't most of Europe copy the Greeks?=3DA=
0=3D20
Chae
From: J Motzkin
Subject: origin of handles question
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 7:53 PM
"I have a history question about pottery. I heard that the cup handle was
invented in=3DA0 either china or japan for export ware sent to Europe when =
th=3D
ey
learned that "we" drank our tea hotter than is comfy for the handle-free
cup....?????"
Any info out there?
=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A
Lee Love on wed 14 oct 09
I don't know if the Greeks and Romans are relevant. I think the
question was: " Who invented the handled teacup?" I am guessing
it was the Brits. They were the ones to turn Chinese wine ewers and
medicine pots into tea pots. Before that time, in Asia, tea was
brewed in a larger bowl and then dispensed into smaller bowls or
handless cups to drink. Maybe they liked the handles on the wine
ewers and on stines and mugs and thought they'd be good on tea cups.
--
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D97tha=
t is, "T=3D
he
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Clyde Tullis on thu 15 oct 09
and so... it's interesting to think on the fact that the handle is the fi=
=3D
rst
element that is addressed when one picks up the cup. How does it feel. Ho=
=3D
w
it attaches to the cup.
Randall Moody on thu 15 oct 09
On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 7:35 PM, Lee Love wrote:
> I don't know if the Greeks and Romans are relevant. I think the
> question was: " Who invented the handled teacup?" I am guessing
> it was the Brits. They were the ones to turn Chinese wine ewers and
> medicine pots into tea pots. Before that time, in Asia, tea was
> brewed in a larger bowl and then dispensed into smaller bowls or
> handless cups to drink. Maybe they liked the handles on the wine
> ewers and on stines and mugs and thought they'd be good on tea cups.
>
> Actually the original question was "I have a history question about
pottery. I heard that the cup handle was invented in either china or japan
for export ware sent to Europe when they learned that "we" drank our tea
hotter than is comfy for the handle-free cup....????? Any info?" So,
it was concerning the origins of the cup handle and then using the referenc=
e
to tea as support for the idea that the cup handle was invented due to
drinking hot tea. Notice that the phrase "tea cup" isn't in the original
query. Given that the original inquiry was as to who or where the cup handl=
e
was invented all cultures are relevant. Handles of a type can be found on
Cypriot late bronze age potter*y. Personally I think that the handle was on=
e
of those odd inventions that came about in many different cultures at about
the same time or that is so self evident as to have no "one" origin. *
--
Randall in Atlanta
jeanne wood on thu 15 oct 09
Hi Again,
I have a friend, who is an amateur scholar in the field of Medieval and Ren=
aissance cooking, cooking of any sort really. I asked her about Westerners =
drinking hot liquids and she says:
"I know of no example in the medieval, Renaissance or Elizabethan
cookbook corpus from England, France, Italy, Germany or points in between
where a beverage is served hot. I will admit I have not read every single
cookbook out there, so I welcome new data if its out there.
I've heard of medicinal recipes in the Middle East
where stuff was made and drunk hot, but that wasn't for meals but rather
as a remedy....
hot spiced wine, etc is one of those "of course they did it things" that
I have to actually see evidence of...."
Darn, a fun belief disproved ;-)
It looks like handles on Western cups were originally for the
benefit of balance and storage not heat.
And as for thermal shock. About three weekends ago some friends and
I cooked in clay pots on direct heat (coals, flame burns the food)
for several lovely meals.
Jeanne W.
in N. Idaho
--- On Wed, 10/14/09, Randall Moody wrote:
From: Randall Moody
Subject: Re: origin of handles question
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 9:50 AM
The Carlos Museum at Emory University has some early Greek or Roman cups
with handles on them. They look a great deal like coffee cups of today. I
don't believe the part about original cups in England not being able to
withstand the thermals shock of hot tea considering I have seen clay pots i=
n
Kenya, Thailand and other places being used over open flame
--
Randall in Atlanta
Lee Love on thu 15 oct 09
The question is not, "what is the origins of handles" but
paraphrased, "What is the origin of handles on cups for drinking tea."
Please enlighten us if you have any ideas/information.
--
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D97tha=
t is, "T=3D
he
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Lee Love on thu 15 oct 09
On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 12:44 AM, jeanne wood wrote:
>
> Kind of an interesting thing about some Medieval handles. Take a look at =
=3D
the long-necked cup here: >http://potweb.ashmolean.org/PotChron5.html
Thanks for the link Jeanne!
Medieval times overlap the introduction of tea. The
Portuguese first introduced tea to Europe in 1510 and it was in
widespread use by 1560. Pots at this link go up to 1600.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3D3D3239148&l=3D3D9079646d48&id=3D3D5=
507270=3D
56
Looking for my Jomon and Yayoi book for next post!
--
--
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D97that=
is, "Th=3D
e
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Lee Love on thu 15 oct 09
This link is Alexander Calder wire handles put on Chinese cups:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3D3D3239148&l=3D3D9079646d48&id=3D3D5=
507270=3D
56
=3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0Looking for my Jomon and Yay=
oi book for next=3D
post!
--
--
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D97that=
is, "Th=3D
e
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
--=3D20
--
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D97tha=
t is, "T=3D
he
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Randall Moody on thu 15 oct 09
On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 9:01 AM, Lee Love wrote:
> The question is not, "what is the origins of handles" but
> paraphrased, "What is the origin of handles on cups for drinking tea."
>
> Please enlighten us if you have any ideas/information.
>
>
Not to get to far afield from the question of what is the origin of the
handle but the original phrasing was as I quoted without paraphrasing.
Paraphrasing brings into play a bit of prejudice or license with the actual
question rather than addressing the actual question directly. Maybe the
original poster can shed some light on whether or not she meant handles on
cups in general or handles on teacups only. If the latter than of course it
would narrow the search to the time in which tea was introduced to Europe.
Jeanne, I would have to say that lack of a recipe for a hot drink does not
mean that they didn't drink hot drinks. That assumption would be folly.
--
Randall in Atlanta
Lee Love on thu 15 oct 09
A Scottsman invented the handled teacup and the saucer too!
From this site: http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art61948.asp
It appears the first tea cups made their way to England from imports
from China. These first tea cups were handle-less and were called tea
bowls. And it was not until the year of 1700 did saucers appear. In
about 1750 a man named Robert Adams inspired tea sets that the tea
cups had handles. The English welcomed Mr. Adams designs because they
thought that the tea bowls were way too messy, and that the English
often would burn their hands on the tea bowls. Robert Adams designed
tea cups that were taller than their base and came with a saucer. The
English thought this was quite unique and this became quickly the
standard of what is known as the English Tea Service Set. Since the
English loved to put cream and a bit of sugar in their tea, Robert
Adams also inspired the tea pot, sugar holders, milk/creamer
containers, and even tea spoons to match. Mr. Adams made these tea
cups from porcelain that was strong but delicate in its look. If one
holds an English porcelain cup into a light, it will have a
translucent look.
More about Robert Adams:
http://www.scran.ac.uk/dl/ada/ra.htm
--
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D97tha=
t is, "T=3D
he
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Sherron & Jim Bowen on thu 15 oct 09
The feel of the handle is always the determining factor for me as to
whether a cup gets used. Luckily for me I found a mug by an unknown potter
at a thrift store that's perfect to replace my Clyde cup that I broke. I
have a Dave Finkelnburg mug now, and that works very well for me, too.
JB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clyde Tullis"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 11:05 PM
Subject: Re: origin of handles question
and so... it's interesting to think on the fact that the handle is the firs=
t
element that is addressed when one picks up the cup. How does it feel. How
it attaches to the cup.
Vince Pitelka on fri 16 oct 09
John Lowes wrote:
"All the PC aside, I took photos of
the Ancient Pueblo People's work and they certainly had handles, but they
were loop handles on some vessels and the only strap handle I saw was on a
pitcher. They also made ladles which have a handle. I am inclined to agre=
e
that their drinking vessels were cups with no handles, as there were no
examples with handles displayed."
John -
If you do some additional research, you will find that the Anasazi made
beautiful cups with side handles that look almost exactly like contemporary
mugs, but with beautiful black-on-white brush painting. The first time I
saw one, I thought it was a joke, but then a friend showed me a whole
catalog of them. If you do a Google images search for Anasazi "mugs" you
will find abundant examples, as well as some very tacky contemporary mugs
with misappropriated Anasazi imagery.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Bonnie Staffel on fri 16 oct 09
Some time ago I saw some pots made by a modern day potter who was =3D
emulating
the Anasazi work and a cup was presented with a handle. This surprised =3D
me
but then I had no education in their ancient works to question the =3D
addition
of the handle. It really didn't make sense to me at the time and still I
question the validity of this appendage by ancient peoples.=3D20
Does anyone in Clayart Land know if such artifacts are available for
validation?=3D20
Bonnie
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
http://vasefinder.com/bstaffelgallery1.html
DVD=3DA0 Throwing with Coils and Slabs
DVD=3DA0 Introduction to Wheel Work
Charter Member Potters Council
Snail Scott on fri 16 oct 09
On Oct 16, 2009, at 10:57 AM, Bonnie Staffel wrote:
> ... I saw some pots made by a modern day potter who was emulating
> the Anasazi work and a cup was presented with a handle...Does anyone
> in Clayart Land know if such artifacts are available for
> validation?
I have seen images of an Anasazi cup with
a handle, looking very much like a modern
coffee mug. I will look more closely to try
to authenticate the source of the images.
-Snail
Snail Scott on fri 16 oct 09
Here's a link to a pretty well authenticated
Anasazi cup. If someone thinks that the
loop isn't a true handle, though, I won't
argue.
http://www.mfa.org/collections/search_art.asp?recview=3Dtrue&id=3D45135
-Snail
Pottery by John on fri 16 oct 09
On a late Summer trip I went to the Mesa Verde Museum, which contains many
Anasazi works, The Anasazi are now called Ancient Pueblo People, or
Ancestral Puebloans, because Anasazi is a Navajo (now called Dine) word for
enemy and why should an earlier culture be described by a later culture's
word (oh wait, isn't pueblo Spanish?). All the PC aside, I took photos of
the Ancient Pueblo People's work and they certainly had handles, but they
were loop handles on some vessels and the only strap handle I saw was on a
pitcher. They also made ladles which have a handle. I am inclined to agre=
e
that their drinking vessels were cups with no handles, as there were no
examples with handles displayed.
Bonnie, as a bonus for your excellent question, I loaded some pictures of
Ancestral Puebloan work, including some of the work mentioned above, onto m=
y
website for you:
http://wynhillpottery.weebly.com/clayart.html.
I particularly like the picture of dried corn discovered in Mesa Verde in
1955 that is thought to be 700 years old, along with a picture of the nice
olla and the lid covering the neck of the olla that preserved the corn.
Truly functional pottery.
John Lowes
Sandy Springs, Georgia
http://wynhillpottery.weebly.com/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bonnie Staffel"
To:
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: origin of handles question
Some time ago I saw some pots made by a modern day potter who was emulating
the Anasazi work and a cup was presented with a handle. This surprised me
but then I had no education in their ancient works to question the addition
of the handle. It really didn't make sense to me at the time and still I
question the validity of this appendage by ancient peoples.
Does anyone in Clayart Land know if such artifacts are available for
validation?
Bonnie
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
http://vasefinder.com/bstaffelgallery1.html
DVD Throwing with Coils and Slabs
DVD Introduction to Wheel Work
Charter Member Potters Council
Marcia Selsor on fri 16 oct 09
This is not really about handles but SW Native American Pots at the
Barnes Collection in Merion just outside Phila.
I took my mother there two weeks ago. They have $37 billion art
collection mostly known for their Impressionist
paintings. I was blown away by the pottery collection. Beautiful pots
from the SW. Zuni, Anazazi, Navajo, etc. Not
well labeled but just as beautiful without. I can recognize many
styles. Mimbres, Acoma etc.
Marcia Selsor
On Oct 16, 2009, at 2:25 PM, Pottery by John wrote:
> On a late Summer trip I went to the Mesa Verde Museum, which
> contains many
> Anasazi works, The Anasazi are now called Ancient Pueblo People, or
> Ancestral Puebloans, because Anasazi is a Navajo (now called Dine)
> word for
> enemy and why should an earlier culture be described by a later
> culture's
> word (oh wait, isn't pueblo Spanish?). All the PC aside, I took
> photos of
> the Ancient Pueblo People's work and they certainly had handles, but
> they
> were loop handles on some vessels and the only strap handle I saw
> was on a
> pitcher. They also made ladles which have a handle. I am inclined
> to agree
> that their drinking vessels were cups with no handles, as there were
> no
> examples with handles displayed.
>
> Bonnie, as a bonus for your excellent question, I loaded some
> pictures of
> Ancestral Puebloan work, including some of the work mentioned above,
> onto my
> website for you:
>
> http://wynhillpottery.weebly.com/clayart.html.
>
> I particularly like the picture of dried corn discovered in Mesa
> Verde in
> 1955 that is thought to be 700 years old, along with a picture of
> the nice
> olla and the lid covering the neck of the olla that preserved the
> corn.
> Truly functional pottery.
>
> John Lowes
> Sandy Springs, Georgia
> http://wynhillpottery.weebly.com/
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bonnie Staffel"
> To:
> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 11:57 AM
> Subject: Re: origin of handles question
>
>
> Some time ago I saw some pots made by a modern day potter who was
> emulating
> the Anasazi work and a cup was presented with a handle. This
> surprised me
> but then I had no education in their ancient works to question the
> addition
> of the handle. It really didn't make sense to me at the time and
> still I
> question the validity of this appendage by ancient peoples.
>
> Does anyone in Clayart Land know if such artifacts are available for
> validation?
>
> Bonnie
>
> http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
> http://vasefinder.com/bstaffelgallery1.html
> DVD Throwing with Coils and Slabs
> DVD Introduction to Wheel Work
> Charter Member Potters Council
>
Marcia Selsor
http://marciaselsor.com
gayle bair on fri 16 oct 09
Hi Snail,
Is this it?
http://www.mountainsofstone.com/anasazi.htm
Scroll down to Basketmaker period 1-750AD
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island WA
Tucson AZ
gayle@claybair.com
www.claybair.com
On Oct 16, 2009, at 11:05 AM, Snail Scott wrote:
> On Oct 16, 2009, at 10:57 AM, Bonnie Staffel wrote:
>> ... I saw some pots made by a modern day potter who was emulating
>> the Anasazi work and a cup was presented with a handle...Does anyone
>> in Clayart Land know if such artifacts are available for
>> validation?
>
>
>
> I have seen images of an Anasazi cup with
> a handle, looking very much like a modern
> coffee mug. I will look more closely to try
> to authenticate the source of the images.
>
> -Snail
Snail Scott on fri 16 oct 09
On Oct 16, 2009, at 4:13 PM, gayle bair wrote:
> Hi Snail,
> Is this it?
> http://www.mountainsofstone.com/anasazi.htm
> Scroll down to Basketmaker period 1-750AD
Yep. Different item, but same style and era.
-Snail
Don Goodrich on sat 17 oct 09
Here's a cup from Jericho that predates the Chinese tea trade
with Europe by at least a millenium:
http://dongoodrichpottery.com/jericho.jpg
Dunno what it was used for, but it even has a thumbrest!
Cheers,
Don Goodrich
sorry to have missed the beginning of this thread,=3D20
but hoping it's not too late to be relevant...
On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 08:15:59 -0700, Chris Campbell=3D20
wrote:
>I have just posted some pre historic
>mugs from Europe with handles ...
>from about the 5th millenium BC ...
>
>http://neriagechris.blogspot.com/
Lis Allison on sun 18 oct 09
On Saturday 17 October 2009, Don Goodrich wrote:
> Here's a cup from Jericho that predates the Chinese tea trade
> with Europe by at least a millenium:
> http://dongoodrichpottery.com/jericho.jpg
> Dunno what it was used for, but it even has a thumbrest!
How wonderful! I could just feel the potter making the cup, rolling the
coil for the handle, attaching it..... what a communication from someone
alive so long ago!
Lis
--
Elisabeth Allison
Pine Ridge Studio
www.Pine-Ridge-Studio.blogspot.com
Vince Pitelka on sun 18 oct 09
Don Goodrich wrote:
"Here's a cup from Jericho that predates the Chinese tea trade with Europe
by at least a millenium:
http://dongoodrichpottery.com/jericho.jpg. Dunno what it was used for, but
it even has a thumbrest!"
Don -
It precedes the Chinese tea trade with Europe, but does it precede the
earliest version of the Silk Road? As you know, that was the great overlan=
d
trade-route between China and the Middle East, and it started very early.
Now, whether they were trading tea that early, and whether the Neolithic
civilization at Jericho was consuming tea is probably a matter of pure
conjecture.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Dinah Snipes Steveni on mon 19 oct 09
Could this be=3DC2=3DA0 an early "flashlight". Oil=3DC2=3DA0in cup and=3DC2=
=3DA0wick ma=3D
terial floating?=3D20
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