Kate McCoy on mon 14 dec 09
ok, until I got to the bit about tax accountants
* Tax accountants
"Every pound that a tax accountant saves a client is a pound which=3D20
otherwise would have gone to HM Revenue. For a salary of between =3DA375,00=
=3D
0=3D20
and =3DA3200,000, tax accountants destroy =3DA347 in value, for every pound=
t=3D
hey=3D20
generate."
hmm, so it seems that even if you have tax laws with exemptions,=3D20
with-holdings etc, if someone (tax accountant) points them out to you=3D20
and you actually use one, you are being a bad person, and the accountant=3D=
20
is bad for letting you know.
I'm glad I'm not British anymore - ok, well I am, but I've been here=3D20
(U.S) longer than there! They are so...ok, never mind, that would be=3D20
getting political.
It's like saying that us potters can't buy our needed supplies without=3D20
paying sales tax because that would be taking revenues from the gumment,=3D=
20
local or federal. YOW!
Kate
Olympia WA - who pays all my taxes and takes all the breaks I can get.
Anne Doyle wrote:
> I thought this might be of interest to others here...
>
> short article about a study on the value of work to society...
>
> i thought it a worthwhile read...
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8410489.stm
> =3D20
Anne Doyle on mon 14 dec 09
I thought this might be of interest to others here...
short article about a study on the value of work to society...
i thought it a worthwhile read...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8410489.stm
=3D20
Anne Doyle
Saint-Sauveur=3D2C QC
where the kiln is unloaded and there are pieces awaiting smoothed=3D20
bottoms and i will be taking them into UPS to ship them out tomorrow...=3D2=
0
promise of 1 day delivery to Ontario! Whew!
http://www.endcancer.ca/site/TR/Events/Montreal2010?px=3D3D3206162&pg=3D3D=
pers=3D
onal&fr_id=3D3D1400
http://www.endcancer.ca/site/TR/Events/Montreal2010?px=3D3D3223482&pg=3D3D=
pers=3D
onal&fr_id=3D3D1400
=3D20
"I expect to pass through life but once.
If therefore=3D2C there be any kindness i can show=3D2C=3D20
or any good thing i can do to any fellow being=3D2C=3D20
let me do it now=3D2C and not defer or neglect it=3D2C=3D20
as i shall not pass this way again." William Penn
=3D20
_________________________________________________________________
Eligible CDN College & University students can upgrade to Windows 7 before =
=3D
Jan 3 for only $39.99. Upgrade now!
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=3D3D9691819=3D
Lee Love on mon 14 dec 09
On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Anne Doyle wrote:
> I thought this might be of interest to others here...
>
> short article about a study on the value of work to society...
>
> i thought it a worthwhile read...
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8410489.stm
Thanks Anne! I heard this on the radio.
--
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D97tha=
t is, "T=3D
he
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Lee Love on tue 15 dec 09
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 11:43 AM, jonathan byler wrote=
=3D
:
> no, I think what this is saying is that tax accountants cost a fair bit o=
=3D
f
> money, but they don't actually produce anything of value...
When I ever walk downtown and look up at the glass skyscrapers, I
can't ever imagine any real work being done in them: moving papers and
shuffling numbers...
Sorry! It is because of my limited life experiences, I suppose....
--
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D97tha=
t is, "T=3D
he
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
jonathan byler on tue 15 dec 09
no, I think what this is saying is that tax accountants cost a fair =3D20
bit of money, but they don't actually produce anything of value... =3D20
they save you personally a few dollars, pounds, whatever, but are a =3D20
net leaching of value from the system. that is what I get from that =3D20
statement.
has nothing to do with producers not paying sales tax on supplies that =3D2=
0=3D
they are buying when said supplies are not the end product but put to =3D20=
=3D
use to make an end product. just be glad we don't have a proper old =3D20
world style value added tax, where every time a person seeks to add =3D20
value to something they are taxed for that.
On Dec 14, 2009, at 7:47 PM, Kate McCoy wrote:
> ok, until I got to the bit about tax accountants
>
> * Tax accountants
>
> "Every pound that a tax accountant saves a client is a pound which =3D20
> otherwise would have gone to HM Revenue. For a salary of between =3D20
> =3DA375,000 and =3DA3200,000, tax accountants destroy =3DA347 in value, f=
or =3D20=3D
> every pound they generate."
>
> hmm, so it seems that even if you have tax laws with exemptions, =3D20
> with-holdings etc, if someone (tax accountant) points them out to =3D20
> you and you actually use one, you are being a bad person, and the =3D20
> accountant is bad for letting you know.
>
> I'm glad I'm not British anymore - ok, well I am, but I've been here =3D2=
0=3D
> (U.S) longer than there! They are so...ok, never mind, that would be =3D2=
0=3D
> getting political.
>
> It's like saying that us potters can't buy our needed supplies =3D20
> without paying sales tax because that would be taking revenues from =3D20=
=3D
> the gumment, local or federal. YOW!
>
> Kate
> Olympia WA - who pays all my taxes and takes all the breaks I can get.
>
>
>
> Anne Doyle wrote:
>> I thought this might be of interest to others here...
>>
>> short article about a study on the value of work to society...
>>
>> i thought it a worthwhile read...
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8410489.stm
>>
Steve Slatin on tue 15 dec 09
Kate --
This gets deeply into the point of view issue.
Most of us have an idea of what constitutes
a legitimate tax reduction strategy, and most
of our opinions are not held by the rest of
us ... that is to say, the standard of
appropriateness differs.
From the standpoint of a Rouseauuean "social
contract" philosopher, once government is
'approved' by the majority, all taxation=3D20
becomes legitimate (because it's part of
the agreed-upon social contract). Get rid
of dictators and kings, elect your parliament,
and all taxation becomes a social good.
Failing to pay your 'fair' share, then, is
a social evil.
From the standpoint of a Somali practitioner
of "xeer" acknowledging any central authority
to tax is wrong. In fact, "xeer" would have=3D20
local courts not established, but springing=3D20
up spontaneously, and deriving their authority
not from the state, but from the willingness
of individuals of competing interests to agree
to use that particular court to resolve a
dispute. The Islamic Courts movement in
Somalia, viewed from the outside as an
offshoot of foreign Islamic fundamentalist
movements, reflects the "xeer" tradition.
(Ayn Randers have similar attitudes about
taxation, but I've not been able to work
a reference to "xeer" into anything for years,
and after studying up on customary law for
a long time, I ache to mention it.)
So ... Rousseau would let you tax everything,
and we know that's not a good idea ... and "xeer"
lets you tax nothing, and we can see from the
morning news how poorly that approach turns
out ... obviously the better answer is going
to be something in the middle.
So how do we find the good middle spot? In the
US, conservatives believe that it would come
from eliminating taxation on unearned income
(interest, capital gains, inheritance, gifts)
and having a flat-rate tax on wages. Liberals
would have us tax all income equally, but in
graduated steps (the "progressive" tax) without
regard to its source. So we have a mixed system
with the two political groups fighting out the=3D20
marginal changes, and endlessly growing tax codes.
Professional "tax accountants" exploit every=3D20
tiny vagueness of the tax code to try to find
ways to claim (with a straight face) that the
income made by their wealthy clients and corporations
is non-taxable. (This is why the US has a high
rate of corporate tax, but the lowest fraction of income
from corporate tax in the developed world.)
So are their efforts totally legitimate uses of the
tax code, or wicked thefts from the public good
(and, by extention, from the pockets of those
who cannot afford their services)? Like so
much else, it's both, neither, and a point of view=3D20
issue.
In this, it's similar to the "frivolous lawsuit"
question. Those who oppose the use of the legal
system to control corporate and personal behavior
will give wonderful, specific statistics on the
"social cost" of lawsuits, but that do so by
adding up the cost of ALL lawsuits, presuming
that all are frivolous. Supporters of our
present system will lament the inability of=3D20
society to rein in the excesses and abuses of
run-mad profiteers without the use of lawsuits.
In this case, both sides have interesting arguments.
Few actually frivolous lawsuits make it to trial,
much less to a judgment against an innocent party.
OTOH, many lawsuits are filed that serve only
to enrich the lawyers that file them, with the
actually harmed parties walking away with little
or nothing. =3D20
So are tax accountants generators of wealth,
or are they crooks who do their thieving on
behalf of their wealthy clients -- Robin Hoods
in reverse, stealing from the (many, taxpaying)
poor and giving only to the rich?
Depends on your point of view.
Steve Slatin --=3D20
--- On Mon, 12/14/09, Kate McCoy wrote:
> ok, until I got to the bit about tax
> accountants
>=3D20
> =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0* Tax accountants
>=3D20
> "Every pound that a tax accountant saves a client is a
> pound which otherwise would have gone to HM Revenue. For a
> salary of between =3DA375,000 and =3DA3200,000, tax accountants
> destroy =3DA347 in value, for every pound they generate."
>=3D20
> hmm, so it seems that even if you have tax laws with
> exemptions, with-holdings etc, if someone (tax accountant)
> points them out to you and you actually use one, you are
> being a bad person, and the accountant is bad for letting
> you know.
>=3D20
> I'm glad I'm not British anymore - ok, well I am, but I've
> been here (U.S) longer than there! They are so...ok, never
> mind, that would be getting political.
>=3D20
> It's like saying that us potters can't buy our needed
> supplies without paying sales tax because that would be
> taking revenues from the gumment, local or federal. YOW!
>=3D20
> Kate
> Olympia WA - who pays all my taxes and takes all the breaks
> I can get.
> >=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A
| |
|
