Carolyn Boeri on mon 14 dec 09
Hi Carla,
I know what you are thinking and that you may prefer your way of handmaking
something, but even though I do not slip cast I do believe that a handmade
mold is a tool just as a slump mold is. It is a different art, but
nonetheless there is an art to making a sculpture, say, creating a mold of
it, and then pouring clay into that mold. I believe it can be likened to
making a print of an original painting, or making a bronze casting. One
would not say that a bronze casting is not handmade would they?
Might I add that to be helpful and kind in postulating our thoughts and
opinions is where we might want to go here on this friendly, supportive
list. Our hearts then remain open, free of worry, calm and receptive to
learning.
Off to beddyby,
Carolyn
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 2:28 PM
Subject: Handmade - Somebody's got to say it!
> Hi All,
>
> OK. Here goes....if you're slip casting, you ARE NOT making handmade
> pottery. I don't care if you made the mold and made the slip and made th=
e
> glazes, it still is not handmade. If you're passing it off as such, then
> you're lying to your customers...period. I suspect there are a few peopl=
e
> on this list that do just that and are trying to make excuses for it.
> Well, shame on you. I've seen you in action at art fairs. I've walked
> into booths "playing dumb" while you talk about your "handmade" pottery
> and I bite my tongue (which, if you know me, is a really hard thing to
> do). THIS IS SO INSULTING TO ME!
>
> A plaster slump/hump mold for clay slabs used in HANDbuiling is a tool.
> Handbuilding by definition makes the result handmade....duh! A plaster
> slip casting mold is not a tool, it's taking the easy way out...and it's
> cheating if you try to pass it off as handmade. So get over it! If you
> slip cast, fine, knock yourself out, but don't get pissed off when we cal=
l
> you on it.
>
> I feel better already......
>
> Carla
> Aliquippa, PA
>
>
Lee Love on tue 15 dec 09
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:43 PM, James Freeman
wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:23 PM, Carolyn Boeri =
=3D
wrote:
>
>> I believe it can be likened to
>> making a print of an original painting, or making a bronze casting. One
>> would not say that a bronze casting is not handmade would they?
>>
>
>
> Hi, Carolyn...
>
> I don't think one could honestly argue that the bronze casting WAS handma=
=3D
de,
> though you might be able to say that it was hand poured. =3DA0A bronze ca=
st=3D
ing
> is, by definition, a reproduction.
But culture values cast bronze better than hand formed clay.
Hand made is not so important in the art world. As studio potters,
we straddle two worlds: a world of craft and a world of art.
--
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D97tha=
t is, "T=3D
he
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
James Freeman on tue 15 dec 09
On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:23 PM, Carolyn Boeri wr=
ote:
> I believe it can be likened to
> making a print of an original painting, or making a bronze casting. One
> would not say that a bronze casting is not handmade would they?
>
Hi, Carolyn...
I don't think one could honestly argue that the bronze casting WAS handmade=
,
though you might be able to say that it was hand poured. A bronze casting
is, by definition, a reproduction. Likewise, you could not say that the
giclee prints made from a scan of your oil painting were handmade or hand
painted. They are all, like slip cast objects, reproductions of an
original.
Also, isn't the invocation of sculpture a bit of a straw man? I don't thin=
k
the word or concept "handmade" ever comes up in a sculpture context. I
think most patrons simply assume that the casting was hired out to a
foundry, and in any case they do not generally care who actually fabricated
the piece at all, let alone how. Sculpture is a far different animal than
functional pottery, and is not comparable. Sculpture is more akin to field=
s
such as architecture: Falling Water is a Frank Lloyd Wright house, though
Wright never pounded a nail.
All the best.
...James
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I should
not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/clayart/
Ric Swenson on tue 15 dec 09
tools are just tools...they make my work ....work...
texture tools....ribs.. the wheel... electric or by foot.. it all works.. e=
ven hydralic Ram and/or cast. hand finished..? or hand made?
designed by who?
I have my own way of working ... AS DO YOU ALL... I presume...
Ric
"...then fiery expedition be my wing, ..."
-Wm. Shakespeare, RICHARD III, Act IV Scene III
Richard H. ("Ric") Swenson, Teacher,
Office of International Cooperation and Exchange of Jingdezhen Ceramic Inst=
itute,
TaoYang Road, Eastern Suburb, Jingdezhen City.
JiangXi Province, P.R. of China.
Postal code 333001.
Mobile/cellular phone : 86 13767818872
< RicSwenson0823@hotmail.com>
http://www.jci.jx.cn
> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 21:23:20 -0500
> From: claychi_04@VERMONTEL.NET
> Subject: Re: Handmade -the tone of the word comes from the heart
> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>
> Hi Carla,
> I know what you are thinking and that you may prefer your way of handmaki=
ng
> something, but even though I do not slip cast I do believe that a handmad=
e
> mold is a tool just as a slump mold is. It is a different art, but
> nonetheless there is an art to making a sculpture, say, creating a mold o=
f
> it, and then pouring clay into that mold. I believe it can be likened to
> making a print of an original painting, or making a bronze casting. One
> would not say that a bronze casting is not handmade would they?
> Might I add that to be helpful and kind in postulating our thoughts and
> opinions is where we might want to go here on this friendly, supportive
> list. Our hearts then remain open, free of worry, calm and receptive to
> learning.
> Off to beddyby,
> Carolyn
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To:
> Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 2:28 PM
> Subject: Handmade - Somebody's got to say it!
>
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > OK. Here goes....if you're slip casting, you ARE NOT making handmade
> > pottery. I don't care if you made the mold and made the slip and made t=
he
> > glazes, it still is not handmade. If you're passing it off as such, the=
n
> > you're lying to your customers...period. I suspect there are a few peop=
le
> > on this list that do just that and are trying to make excuses for it.
> > Well, shame on you. I've seen you in action at art fairs. I've walked
> > into booths "playing dumb" while you talk about your "handmade" pottery
> > and I bite my tongue (which, if you know me, is a really hard thing to
> > do). THIS IS SO INSULTING TO ME!
> >
> > A plaster slump/hump mold for clay slabs used in HANDbuiling is a tool.
> > Handbuilding by definition makes the result handmade....duh! A plaster
> > slip casting mold is not a tool, it's taking the easy way out...and it'=
s
> > cheating if you try to pass it off as handmade. So get over it! If you
> > slip cast, fine, knock yourself out, but don't get pissed off when we c=
all
> > you on it.
> >
> > I feel better already......
> >
> > Carla
> > Aliquippa, PA
> >
> >
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Friends get your Flickr, Yelp, and Digg updates when they e-m=
ail you.
http://www.microsoft.com/middleeast/windows/windowslive/see-it-in-action/so=
cial-network-basics.aspx?ocid=3DPID23461::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-xm:SI_SB_3:092=
010
Lee Love on wed 16 dec 09
On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 7:28 AM, Randall Moody wr=
=3D
ote:
> why does a given culture value purely decorative items more than purely
> functional ones?
In Asia, bronze casting was not purely decorative. Vessels and bells
are functional objects made today. We need to have a broad
perspective when we view these things.
Philip Rawson explains that in the past, before we were consumed
by relativistic values, fine and decorative arts all had a function.
Because we are people divorced from our roots, our past, we simply to
do not recognize it.
All high cultures appreciate a range of fabricated things.
We have lost the ability to understand metaphor, so we have
difficulty understanding its meaning.
--
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D97tha=
t is, "T=3D
he
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Randall Moody on wed 16 dec 09
The value a culture places on a piece has nothing to do with whether or =3D
not
the piece was handmade. The importance the "art world" puts on whether =3D
an
item is handmade has no bearing on whether or not the piece is handmade.
This debate is full of red herrings.=3D20
The reason that culture values bronze sculptures goes back to when =3D
bronze
was a more expensive medium and when the resulting sculpture was used =3D
for
decorative purposes. You must also factor in that the original bronzes =3D
were
used to represent important people and gods. Now we have to ask =3D
ourselves
why does a given culture value purely decorative items more than purely
functional ones?=3D20
--Randall in Atlanta--
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Lee Love
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 9:42 PM
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Handmade -the tone of the word comes from the heart
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:43 PM, James Freeman
wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:23 PM, Carolyn Boeri
wrote:
>
>> I believe it can be likened to
>> making a print of an original painting, or making a bronze casting. =3D
One
>> would not say that a bronze casting is not handmade would they?
>>
>
>
> Hi, Carolyn...
>
> I don't think one could honestly argue that the bronze casting WAS
handmade,
> though you might be able to say that it was hand poured. =3DA0A bronze =
=3D
casting
> is, by definition, a reproduction.
But culture values cast bronze better than hand formed clay.
Hand made is not so important in the art world. As studio potters,
we straddle two worlds: a world of craft and a world of art.
--
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
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