Steve Slatin on fri 18 dec 09
Kathy -- There are some people who are=3D0Atone deaf. There are some that =
ve=3D0Ano ability to reproduce notes with their=3D0Avoice, but hear the not=
learly (I knew=3D0Aa violinist who couldn't sing -- it takes=3D0Astrong pit=
ensitivity to play violin).=3D0ANeither should attempt to sing in a choir.=
=3D0AThere are, of course, some people who have=3D0Ano aesthetic sense but =
tremendous=3D0Ahand-eye coordination, and can do=3D0Amechanical drawing or=
n reproductions=3D0Aof fine art without appreciating it (there=3D0Awas an a=
le in a recent New Yorker on=3D0AChinese laborers who do reproductions of=
il paintings of Venice) or even being=3D0Aespecially interested in it.=3D0A=
nd there are people with no aesthetic=3D0Asense and no hand eye coordinatio=
they=3D0Awill not want to draw and should not=3D0Abe encouraged.=3D0A=3D0A=
e also some people who lack the=3D0Ahand-eye coordination -- who simply=3D0=
en't the talent to do the thing.=3D0APerhaps they can appreciate drawn or=
ainted art, perhaps not, but they=3D0Ashouldn't attempt to "sing in the=3D0=
ir."=3D0A=3D0AHolding my songbook, moving my lips in=3D0Asilence -- Steve S=
=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A--- On Fri, 12/18/09, Kathy Forer > wrote:=3D
=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A> =3D0A> The thing about drawing and talent is you never get=
more talent than when you started but you get better at it=3D0A> the more =
u use and learn about it. Unless you're unwilling=3D0A> to let go of the id=
l way you would like to draw, the=3D0A> flowing hand, the sure touch, the s=
se of transience, the=3D0A> energy, the solidity, etc., then your drawing w=
l either=3D0A> stay the same or get worse.=3D0A> =3D0A> Yes Virginia, you c=
rn to draw. Ah, but May I? =3D0A> I need to allow that the marks I make are=
cceptable and=3D0A> can ultimately serve me. I learn how to use the tools a=
=3D0A> systems to see and put on paper. I learn the model. Learn=3D0A> colo=
orm and space. Read texts and see what others have=3D0A> made. Experiment. =
ve fun. Study. Work hard. And I will=3D0A> eventually learn to draw.=3D0A> =
Talent is a kind of tea, nectar or nectarine; it smooths=3D0A> and flavors=
he smoking dung, piss and garbage that sharpen=3D0A> the senses as we voyag=
death burning from shore. Talent is=3D0A> an essential that is ultimately u=
que. Whether it suffers=3D0A> or not by comparison with others, it always s=
nds alone. =3D0A> =3D0A> To stand on our own and learn is the only thing we=
asked=3D0A> to do when we learn to draw. Nothing different than any=3D0A> o=
class, math or geography, just study what's being=3D0A> taught and eventua=
y you will know something you didn't=3D0A> before. You may not have any mor=
or less talent after=3D0A> cultivating it but you will have fruits of knowl=
ge, as=3D0A> well as knowledge of drawing fruit, and that's pretty=3D0A> sp=
l! And when it comes to drawing, bumpy, wormy,=3D0A> discolored are no diff=
ent than perfect and shiny.=3D0A> =3D0A> Instead of suffering by comparison=
u finally accept the=3D0A> fruits of your own knowledge at one with the ide=
that you=3D0A> seek. That's when you can say you've learned to draw. Or=3D=
you've learned enough that if you keep going you won't get=3D0A> stale. =3D=
=3D0A> Some get by with talent alone, but others need help! A=3D0A> structu=
f guided experience and knowledge goes very far=3D0A> in compensating for s=
fering a lack of native talent.=3D0A> Everyone can learn to draw, just not =
ke angels! Though=3D0A> every now and then it's as though an angel's wing b=
shes=3D0A> you and something comes through that's a gift. =3D0A> =3D0A> =3D=
y Forer=3D0A> The Drawing and Painting Lesson Project=3D0A> =3D0A> =3D0A> O=
n Dec 18=3D
, 2009, at 4:03 PM, Steve Slatin wrote:=3D0A> =3D0A> > As far as reasons go=
w about having tried and=3D0A> never=3D0A> > gotten anything beautiful?=3DA=
and Snail and I=3D0A> have=3D0A> > disputed this in the past; it is intere=
g that=3D0A> people=3D0A> > who draw and paint really, really well often co=
de=3D0A> > that anyone can draw or paint.=3D0A> On Dec 18, 2009, at 5:03 PM=
l jacobson wrote:=3D0A> =3D0A> > steve you doe doe.=3D0A> > anyone can draw=
aint.=3D0A> > gosh, we all know that.=3D0A> > it is just you that cannot.=
=3D0A> > i will be giving drawing and painting lessons=3D0A> > for those `=
ot` real soon.=3D0A> > working on the project right now.=3D0A> > you will b=
r first patient, i mean client, or=3D0A> > student.=3D0A> =3D0A> =3D0A> =3D=
0A> =3D0A> =3D
mel jacobson on fri 18 dec 09
steve you doe doe.
anyone can draw and paint.
gosh, we all know that.
it is just you that cannot.
i will be giving drawing and painting lessons
for those `cannot` real soon.
working on the project right now.
you will be our first patient, i mean client, or
from: minnetonka, mn
clayart link: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
new book: http://www.21stcenturykilns.com
Seele Robert on fri 18 dec 09
On Dec 18, 2009, at 4:03 PM, mel jacobson wrote:
steve you doe doe.
anyone can draw and paint.
Any one can draw.
I drew my first and maybe my last memorable drawing while in the first
Sure wish I had that drawing today.
The teacher, one room school, 8 grades, asked my class, one student,
me, to draw bowl.
As I was and am a farm boy, my bowl had a head, four legs, and a tail.
You could be sure it was a bull because it also had the necessary
equipment to be a bull.
Why do psychics have to ask you for your name?
Kathy Forer on sat 19 dec 09
The thing about drawing and talent is you never get any more talent than =
when you started but you get better at it the more you use and learn =3D
about it. Unless you're unwilling to let go of the ideal way you would =3D
like to draw, the flowing hand, the sure touch, the sense of transience, =
the energy, the solidity, etc., then your drawing will either stay the =3D
same or get worse.
Yes Virginia, you can learn to draw. Ah, but May I?=3D20
I need to allow that the marks I make are acceptable and can ultimately =3D
serve me. I learn how to use the tools and systems to see and put on =3D
paper. I learn the model. Learn color, form and space. Read texts and =3D
see what others have made. Experiment. Have fun. Study. Work hard. And I =
will eventually learn to draw.
Talent is a kind of tea, nectar or nectarine; it smooths and flavors the =
smoking dung, piss and garbage that sharpen the senses as we voyage =3D
death burning from shore. Talent is an essential that is ultimately =3D
unique. Whether it suffers or not by comparison with others, it always =3D
To stand on our own and learn is the only thing we're asked to do when =3D
we learn to draw. Nothing different than any other class, math or =3D
geography, just study what's being taught and eventually you will know =3D
something you didn't before. You may not have any more or less talent =3D
after cultivating it but you will have fruits of knowledge, as well as =3D
knowledge of drawing fruit, and that's pretty special! And when it comes =
to drawing, bumpy, wormy, discolored are no different than perfect and =3D
Instead of suffering by comparison, you finally accept the fruits of =3D
your own knowledge at one with the ideal that you seek. That's when you =3D
can say you've learned to draw. Or you've learned enough that if you =3D
keep going you won't get stale.=3D20
Some get by with talent alone, but others need help! A structure of =3D
guided experience and knowledge goes very far in compensating for =3D
suffering a lack of native talent. Everyone can learn to draw, just not =3D
like angels! Though every now and then it's as though an angel's wing =3D
brushes you and something comes through that's a gift.=3D20
The Drawing and Painting Lesson Project
On Dec 18, 2009, at 4:03 PM, Steve Slatin wrote:
> As far as reasons go, how about having tried and never
> gotten anything beautiful? Vine and Snail and I have
> disputed this in the past; it is interesting that people
> who draw and paint really, really well often conclude
> that anyone can draw or paint.
On Dec 18, 2009, at 5:03 PM, mel jacobson wrote:
> steve you doe doe.
> anyone can draw and paint.
> gosh, we all know that.
> it is just you that cannot.
> i will be giving drawing and painting lessons
> for those `cannot` real soon.
> working on the project right now.
> you will be our first patient, i mean client, or
Kathy Forer on sat 19 dec 09
On Dec 19, 2009, at 2:22 AM, Steve Slatin wrote:
> There are some people who are
> tone deaf. There are some that have
> no ability to reproduce notes with their
> voice, but hear the notes clearly (I knew
> a violinist who couldn't sing -- it takes
> strong pitch sensitivity to play violin).
> Neither should attempt to sing in a choir.
Steve, All that describes me to a tee! "Kathy, when the parents come, =3D
just move your lips, don't sing out loud."=3D20
And yet I loved to sing, apparently did it quite loudly. Had I continued =
everyone would have worn mufflers but I'd at least have developed a =3D
voice that could reach the hyperactive third grade students in one or =3D
more of the classes I taught years later in a brief stint with Learning =3D
through an Expanded Arts Program. Instead the third grade choir itself =3D
was the teacher's priority, not our individual voices, and I missed out =3D
greatly, though I got to continue ringing that great big bell, the one =3D
next to my friend who was musical and who got the even bigger one.=3D20
Oh, and when that music teacher died the next year, it was like out of A =
Chorus Line, "Nothing," sung by Diana, at least that's what I imagined.
"Six months later I heard that Karp had died.
And I dug right down to the bottom of my soul...=3D20
'Cause I felt... nothing."
I still love music and even love to sing, I just have no music genes. My =
dad somehow transmuted violin genes into drawing genes and that's what I =
inherited, albeit without his inimitably light fluidity and economy of =3D
means. My drawing is basically kind of clunky and redundant but when I =3D
acknowledge that while I work, it seems not to want to protest or exert =3D
itself quite so much.=3D20
I want to take a singing class. It might need to be private, but I have =3D
a chance of at least learning about voice more than the little I know, =3D
fighting back against imposed and unlike Diana in "A Chorus Line," my =3D
ashamed and accepted limitations. I want to learn more about what it =3D
feels like to project my voice directly and maybe just maybe follow a =3D
tune that I almost hear clearly. Speech therapy perhaps but I get to =3D
I finally understood the thing about "Om." It's really three tones, =3D
"aum." Knowing that makes all the difference. It's the same thing as =3D
learning to move across foreground, mid-ground and background in =3D
I have no musical talent, so there's nothing but room for improvement! =3D
It's not so much that I will better appreciate the marvelous gifts of =3D
others, of those wondrous beings who can sing, just sing, but studying =3D
it will give me a chance of experiencing it for myself, even if I'm =3D
off-key, off-pitch and off-tune!=3D20
At least I can dance, or think I can, so I'll dance in the choir and =3D
sing to myself as Chorus. I expect singing will help my dancing.=3D20
It's good to sing just for the shower alone! no mics, no choir, no =3D
exhibitions, no one listening, just for the act, the thrill of it.=3D20
Drawing is as fundamental to education as reading, writing and =3D
arithmetic. Music and dance too.=3D20