Steve Mills on tue 5 jan 10
e fine and it sure is not. I have some serious flaking
Just a thought.
Over here we haven't had the same problems with aluminium alloy clay kit.
Maybe Alco over here sell a different mix!, but several DIY makers have mad=
e
their own Pugs using steel.
With this material Rust rears its ugly head. My mate Paul Stubbs solved thi=
s
very neatly by coating the inside of his home-made beastie with a thin laye=
r
of 2 part epoxy. simplified; he made up the mix, warmed up the barrel, and
applied it. As soon as the epoxy meets warmth it goes fluid so spreads
easily. the trick is WARM not HOT. I've followed his example with some othe=
r
stuff I wanted a smooth rust-free surface on, and it works a treat. Why not
on an alloy-bodied Pug. Worth a try.
Steve M
2010/1/5 Chris Stanley
> What the Chemist says......
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: J. Michael Robinson [mailto:robinson_m@utpb.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 11:17 AM
> To: Chris Stanley
> Subject: Re: FW: PETER PUGGER: I was assured that porcelain use would be
> fine and it sure is not. I have some serious flaking
>
> cHRIS:
>
> wITH LACK OF DETAILS, THIS COULD BE DUE TO SEVERAL REASONS.
>
> Kaolin and especially (coal mine) clays are terrific "ion exchange"
> materials. Air induced corrosion when wet/in water? may in part be
> due to Al reacting because it is a highly reactive metal. Al can be
> dissolved in base (high pH solutions). Perhaps even mild base with
> air water contact (rim around the interface??? ) with time could be
> another explanation? What is the pH of any solution? What is the time
> of contact? And similar info might help detail how this is done.
>
> beaker test? Place a piece of Al in a glass beaker with the solution
> only covering lower half (like a stirring rod)? and watch what
> happens in a day or two? Iron really rusts, so what happens to Al?
> Probably the same thing (corrosion). The Al goes into solution and
> the Al+3 ions replace some of the H+ ions in the clays. These ion
> exchangers (clays) may act as buffers in part and thus may not
> develop a high or low pH, but check the pH before and after such tests.
>
> Mike
>
> At 10:37 AM 1/5/2010, you wrote:
> >Ok folks...what in a standard porcelain formula would cause excessive
> >corrosion on a metal tube. Normally porcelain would look like:
> >Kaolin
> >Ball Clay (Stuff that comes out of coal mines :-)
> >Flint (ground up sand)
> >Feldspar Potash, or Soda
> >
> >I always wondered why we kept Chemists around here......now, get to
> >work....on something important;-)
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of celia hirsh
> >Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 7:48 AM
> >To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> >Subject: Re: PETER PUGGER: I was assured that porcelain use would be fin=
e
> >and it sure is not. I have some serious flaking
> >
> >Hi Roxanne,
> >you have my full sympathies for this frustrating situation. You should
> >check the ClayArt archives for the last twelve months, since this is a
> >discussion that has occurred sporadically, but without a perfect
> >solution.
> >
> >So far, no one has determined what, exactly, is making this happen.
> >Although it was suggested that it's due to the alkalinity in
> >porcelain, it was only conjecture.Tests have revealed this to be
> >erroneous as the alkalinity level in most porcelains is the same as
> >stoneware. So you can stop the ridiculous and illogical business of
> >adding epsom salts.
> >
> >An engineer I spoke with believes the corrosion to be due to the
> >incredibly low quality of the aluminum being produced, but, who knows?
> >
> >I had the same problem with my Bailey. As a possible solution, Jim
> >Bailey has lined my pug mill with a stainless steel liner and as soon
> >as I get it back across the border, I'll let you know whether this is
> >a viable solution.
> >
> >Have you spoken to Peter Pugger directly? The last time this
> >conversation arose on ClayArt, I received a long email from them
> >defending the quality of their product and affirming that they stand
> >behind what they sell.
> >
> >Let us know what they offer to do for you.
> >Good luck,
> >
> >Celia Hirsh
> >www.hirshpottery.com
>
> J. Michael Robinson, Ph.D.
> Ellen & Bill Noel Distinguished Professor for Energy Research
> and Chemistry Chair
> 432-552-2237 (FAX) -2236 robinson_m@utpb.edu
>
--
Steve
Bath
UK
www.mudslinger.me.uk
steve graber on tue 5 jan 10
e fine and it sure is not. I have some serious flaking
what are the pug mill people using as a production fix?=3DA0 i would think =
wi=3D
th aluminum bodies a hard anodize would make that surface pretty darn stron=
=3D
g and acid-or base-inert.=3DA0 short=3DA0of using stainless steel or chrome=
-nic=3D
kle plating what's left?=3DA0 =3D0A=3DA0Steve Graber, Graber's Pottery, Inc=
=3D0ACla=3D
remont, California USA=3D0AThe Steve Tool - for awesome texture on pots! =
=3D0Aw=3D
ww.graberspottery.com steve@graberspottery.com =3D0A=3D0A=3D0AOn Laguna Cla=
y's we=3D
bsite=3D0Ahttp://www.lagunaclay.com/blogs/ =3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A----- Origin=
al Message=3D
----=3D0A> From: Steve Mills =3D0A> To=
: Cl=3D
ayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=3D0A> Sent: Tue, January 5, 2010 11:25:02 AM=3D0A> S=
ubje=3D
ct: Re: FW: FW: PETER PUGGER: I was assured that porcelain use would be fin=
=3D
e and it sure is not. I have some serious flaking=3D0A> =3D0A> Just a thoug=
ht.=3D
=3D0A> =3D0A> Over here we haven't had the same problems with aluminium all=
oy c=3D
lay kit.=3D0A> Maybe Alco over here sell a different mix!, but several DIY =
ma=3D
kers have made=3D0A> their own Pugs using steel.=3D0A> With this material R=
ust =3D
rears its ugly head. My mate Paul Stubbs solved this=3D0A> very neatly by c=
oa=3D
ting the inside of his home-made beastie with a thin layer=3D0A> of 2 part =
ep=3D
oxy. simplified; he made up the mix, warmed up the barrel, and=3D0A> applie=
d =3D
it. As soon as the epoxy meets warmth it goes fluid so spreads=3D0A> easily=
. =3D
the trick is WARM not HOT. I've followed his example with some other=3D0A> =
st=3D
uff I wanted a smooth rust-free surface on, and it works a treat. Why not=
=3D
=3D0A> on an alloy-bodied Pug. Worth a try.=3D0A> =3D0A> Steve M=3D0A> =3D0=
A> =3D0A> 20=3D
10/1/5 Chris Stanley =3D0A> =3D0A> > What the Chemist says......=3D0A> >=3D=
0A> > --=3D
---Original Message-----=3D0A> > From: J. Michael Robinson [mailto:robinson=
_m=3D
@utpb.edu]=3D0A> > Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 11:17 AM=3D0A> > To: Chr=
is S=3D
tanley=3D0A> > Subject: Re: FW: PETER PUGGER: I was assured that porcelain =
us=3D
e would be=3D0A> > fine and it sure is not. I have some serious flaking=3D0=
A> >=3D
=3D0A> > cHRIS:=3D0A> >=3D0A> > wITH LACK OF DETAILS, THIS COULD BE DUE TO =
SEVERA=3D
L REASONS.=3D0A> >=3D0A> > Kaolin and especially (coal mine) clays are terr=
ific=3D
=3DA0 "ion exchange"=3D0A> > materials. Air induced corrosion when wet/in w=
ater=3D
? may in part be=3D0A> > due to Al reacting because it is a highly reactive=
m=3D
etal. Al can be=3D0A> > dissolved in base (high pH solutions). Perhaps even=
m=3D
ild base with=3D0A> > air water contact (rim around the interface??? ) with=
t=3D
ime could be=3D0A> > another explanation? What is the pH of any solution? W=
ha=3D
t is the time=3D0A> > of contact? And similar info might help detail how th=
is=3D
is done.=3D0A> >=3D0A> > beaker test? Place a piece of Al in a glass beake=
r wi=3D
th the solution=3D0A> > only covering lower half (like a stirring rod)? and=
w=3D
atch what=3D0A> > happens in a day or two? Iron really rusts, so what happe=
ns=3D
to Al?=3D0A> > Probably the same thing (corrosion). The Al goes into solut=
io=3D
n and=3D0A> > the Al+3 ions replace some of the H+ ions in the clays. These=
i=3D
on=3D0A> > exchangers (clays) may act as buffers in part and thus may not=
=3D0A>=3D
> develop a high or low pH, but check the pH before and after such tests.=
=3D
=3D0A> >=3D0A> > Mike=3D0A> >=3D0A> > At 10:37 AM 1/5/2010, you wrote:=3D0A=
> > >Ok fo=3D
lks...what in a standard porcelain formula would cause excessive=3D0A> > >c=
or=3D
rosion on a metal tube.=3DA0 Normally porcelain would look like:=3D0A> > >K=
aoli=3D
n=3D0A> > >Ball Clay (Stuff that comes out of coal mines :-)=3D0A> > >Flint=
(gr=3D
ound up sand)=3D0A> > >Feldspar Potash, or Soda=3D0A> > >=3D0A> > >I always=
wonde=3D
red why we kept Chemists around here......now, get to=3D0A> > >work....on s=
om=3D
ething important;-)=3D0A> > >=3D0A> > >=3D0A> > >=3D0A> > >-----Original Me=
ssage---=3D
--=3D0A> > >From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of ce=
li=3D
a hirsh=3D0A> > >Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 7:48 AM=3D0A> > >To: Claya=
rt@L=3D
SV.CERAMICS.ORG=3D0A> > >Subject: Re: PETER PUGGER: I was assured that porc=
el=3D
ain use would be fine=3D0A> > >and it sure is not. I have some serious flak=
in=3D
g=3D0A> > >=3D0A> > >Hi Roxanne,=3D0A> > >you have my full sympathies for t=
his fr=3D
ustrating situation. You should=3D0A> > >check the ClayArt archives for the=
l=3D
ast twelve months, since this is a=3D0A> > >discussion that has occurred sp=
or=3D
adically, but without a perfect=3D0A> > >solution.=3D0A> > >=3D0A> > >So fa=
r, no =3D
one has determined what, exactly, is making this happen.=3D0A> > >Although =
it=3D
was suggested that it's due to the alkalinity in=3D0A> > >porcelain, it wa=
s =3D
only conjecture.Tests have revealed this to be=3D0A> > >erroneous as the al=
ka=3D
linity level in most porcelains is the same as=3D0A> > >stoneware. So you c=
an=3D
stop the ridiculous and illogical business of=3D0A> > >adding epsom salts.=
=3D
=3D0A> > >=3D0A> > >An engineer I spoke with believes the corrosion to be d=
ue t=3D
o the=3D0A> > >incredibly low quality of the aluminum being produced, but, =
wh=3D
o knows?=3D0A> > >=3D0A> > >I had the same problem with my Bailey. As a pos=
sibl=3D
e solution, Jim=3D0A> > >Bailey has lined my pug mill with a stainless stee=
l =3D
liner and as soon=3D0A> > >as I get it back across the border, I'll let you=
k=3D
now whether this is=3D0A> > >a viable solution.=3D0A> > >=3D0A> > >Have you=
spoke=3D
n to Peter Pugger directly? The last time this=3D0A> > >conversation arose =
on=3D
ClayArt, I received a long email from them=3D0A> > >defending the quality =
of=3D
their product and affirming that they stand=3D0A> > >behind what they sell=
.=3D
=3D0A> > >=3D0A> > >Let us know what they offer to do for you.=3D0A> > >Goo=
d luck=3D
,=3D0A> > >=3D0A> > >Celia Hirsh=3D0A> > >www.hirshpottery.com=3D0A> >=3D0A=
> > J. Mic=3D
hael Robinson, Ph.D.=3D0A> > Ellen & Bill Noel Distinguished Professor for =
En=3D
ergy Research=3D0A> >=3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 and Chemistry Chair=3D0A> > 43=
2-552-2237 (=3D
FAX) -2236=3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 robinson_m@utpb.edu=3D0A> >=3D0A> =3D0A> =
=3D0A> =3D0A> --=3D
=3D0A> Steve=3D0A> Bath=3D0A> UK=3D0A> www.mudslinger.me.uk=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=
=3D0A
Steve Mills on wed 6 jan 10
e fine and it sure is not. I have some serious flaking
UK Al is hard enough I've only ever seen minimal corrosion in a Mill here,
and that was one that had clay left in it for about 5 years.
With the problem on your side of the pond I think your suggestion of hard
anodizing would be the best answer.
Steve M
2010/1/5 steve graber
> what are the pug mill people using as a production fix? i would think wi=
th
> aluminum bodies a hard anodize would make that surface pretty darn strong
> and acid-or base-inert. short of using stainless steel or chrome-nickle
> plating what's left?
> Steve Graber, Graber's Pottery, Inc
> Claremont, California USA
> The Steve Tool - for awesome texture on pots!
> www.graberspottery.com steve@graberspottery.com
>
>
> On Laguna Clay's website
> http://www.lagunaclay.com/blogs/
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Steve Mills
> > To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> > Sent: Tue, January 5, 2010 11:25:02 AM
> > Subject: Re: FW: FW: PETER PUGGER: I was assured that porcelain use wou=
ld
> be fine and it sure is not. I have some serious flaking
> >
> > Just a thought.
> >
> > Over here we haven't had the same problems with aluminium alloy clay ki=
t.
> > Maybe Alco over here sell a different mix!, but several DIY makers have
> made
> > their own Pugs using steel.
> > With this material Rust rears its ugly head. My mate Paul Stubbs solved
> this
> > very neatly by coating the inside of his home-made beastie with a thin
> layer
> > of 2 part epoxy. simplified; he made up the mix, warmed up the barrel,
> and
> > applied it. As soon as the epoxy meets warmth it goes fluid so spreads
> > easily. the trick is WARM not HOT. I've followed his example with some
> other
> > stuff I wanted a smooth rust-free surface on, and it works a treat. Why
> not
> > on an alloy-bodied Pug. Worth a try.
> >
> > Steve M
> >
>
> > --
> > Steve
> > Bath
> > UK
> > www.mudslinger.me.uk
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Steve
Bath
UK
www.mudslinger.me.uk
Carl Ross on wed 27 jan 10
e fine and it sure is not. I have some serious flaking
Just thought I'd share here
I'm just getting back onto Clayart, and as of last night have been playin=
=3D
g=3D20
around with a used Peter pugger Vpm-30 asessing the situation and how muc=
=3D
h=3D20
it was going to cost to get things going
=3D20
I was glad to talk to Dan Stultz the plant manager at peter pugger today,=
=3D
=3D20
It looks like I too have the problem with flaking but most prominantly on=
=3D
the=3D20
final nozzle, and some on segment before that, which is like a giant bell=
=3D
=3D20
reducer and his first suggestion is sandblasting which they will do, for =
=3D
a cost=3D20
of course. Their site Mentions powder coating, But I'm sure It would be=3D2=
0=3D
quicker to use a local shop. Just make sure they use the same type peter =
=3D
does
I tried working on just a Small area with a sanding pad and some comet an=
=3D
d=3D20
elbowgrease and it did come off a very small area after working on it qui=
=3D
te a=3D20
while; way too tedious for me. The stuff did flake off in places, but not=
=3D
easily=3D20
by any means, and most places underneath the corrosion was smooth metal.=3D=
20=3D
So I am going to have a local powdercoat shop blast them and maybe coat=3D2=
0=3D
them inside, It's supposed to be pretty durable stuff, though the epoxy i=
=3D
s an=3D20
intenteresting, They do make epoxy powder coating which is supposed to be=
=3D
=3D20
Even more durable, but I'm not sure if the Shop uses the epoxy type or no=
=3D
t.
Stainless sleeves would be great, but the shapes would have to be stamped=
=3D
=3D20
like mixing bowls are, and I doubt the setup would be cheap for peter pug=
=3D
ger=3D20
to manufacture them for each model.
Has anyone done the powdercoat on their's??
Later,=3D20
Carl Ross
Cornville, AZ
steve graber on thu 28 jan 10
e fine and it sure is not. I have some serious flaking
i've used powder coating in other mechanical applications, and find anodizi=
=3D
ng is more durable.=3DA0 powder coating is great for bike frames, plates, e=
xp=3D
osed surfaces that do not get a lot of intimate surface to surface contact.=
=3D
=3DA0 it is much better than paint, and i consider it like a classy paint j=
ob=3D
.=3DA0 it will hold up ok for dirt bikes, lawn chairs, etc.=3DA0 but once a=
sli=3D
ding force wears it down, it will chip and start really deep crevases.=3DA0=
a=3D
nodizing however is a very durable surface treatment and is truly part of t=
=3D
he metal.=3DA0 machinest hate having to drill or machine any anodized parts=
b=3D
ecause it is so durable.=3DA0 =3D0A=3D0Aif you're about to consider the exp=
ense o=3D
f using a powder coating shop, check with an anodize plating house.=3DA0 th=
ei=3D
r price might be very similar, but much more durable result.=3DA0=3DA0both =
proc=3D
esses require masking of features you do not want coated.=3DA0 and you migh=
t =3D
save a little by offering yourself as=3DA0the "masking guy" for your part.=
=3DA0=3D
they will show you how to mask parts.=3DA0 it's not hard, just time consum=
in=3D
g.=3DA0 powder=3DA0coating is a spray on and bake method.=3DA0 anodizing is=
a bat=3D
h dip and electrolisis method.=3DA0 spraying can=3DA0yield variations in co=
atin=3D
g thickness and miss areas.=3DA0=3DA0electrolosis can reach everywhere and =
have=3D
heavy build up or low coat zones too, except electric methods are still mo=
=3D
re reliable in overall plating coverage.=3DA0 =3D0A=3D0Aif i was doing it i=
would=3D
not powder coat but use the anodize process.=3DA0 =3D0A=3DA0Steve Graber, =
Graber=3D
's Pottery, Inc=3D0AClaremont, California USA=3D0AThe Steve Tool - for awes=
ome =3D
texture on pots! =3D0Awww.graberspottery.com steve@graberspottery.com =3D0A=
=3D0A=3D
=3D0AOn Laguna Clay's website=3D0Ahttp://www.lagunaclay.com/blogs/ =3D0A=3D=
0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D
----- Original Message ----=3D0A> From: Carl Ross =3D0=
A> T=3D
o: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=3D0A> Sent: Wed, January 27, 2010 7:55:48 PM=3D=
0A> =3D
Subject: Re: FW: FW: PETER PUGGER: I was assured that porcelain use would b=
=3D
e fine and it sure is not. I have some serious flaking=3D0A> =3D0A> Just th=
ough=3D
t I'd share here=3D0A> =3D0A> I'm just getting back onto Clayart, and as of=
las=3D
t night have been playing =3D0A> around with a used Peter pugger Vpm-30 ase=
ss=3D
ing the situation and how much =3D0A> it was going to cost to get things go=
in=3D
g=3D0A> =3D0A> I was glad to talk to Dan Stultz the plant manager at peter =
pugg=3D
er today, =3D0A> It looks like I too have the problem with flaking but most=
p=3D
rominantly on the =3D0A> final nozzle, and some on segment before that, whi=
ch=3D
is like a giant bell =3D0A> reducer and his first suggestion is sandblasti=
ng=3D
which they will do, for a cost =3D0A> of course. Their site Mentions powde=
r =3D
coating, But I'm sure It would be =3D0A> quicker to use a local shop. Just =
ma=3D
ke sure they use the same type peter does=3D0A> =3D0A> I tried working on j=
ust =3D
a Small area with a sanding pad and some comet and =3D0A> elbowgrease and i=
t =3D
did come off a very small area after working on it quite a =3D0A> while; wa=
y =3D
too tedious for me. The stuff did flake off in places, but not easily =3D0A=
> =3D
=3D0A> by any means, and most places underneath the corrosion was smooth me=
ta=3D
l. =3D0A> =3D0A> So I am going to have a local powdercoat shop blast them a=
nd m=3D
aybe coat =3D0A> them inside, It's supposed to be pretty durable stuff, tho=
ug=3D
h the epoxy is an =3D0A> intenteresting, They do make epoxy powder coating =
wh=3D
ich is supposed to be =3D0A> Even more durable, but I'm not sure if the Sho=
p =3D
uses the epoxy type or not.=3D0A> =3D0A> Stainless sleeves would be great, =
but =3D
the shapes would have to be stamped =3D0A> like mixing bowls are, and I dou=
bt=3D
the setup would be cheap for peter pugger =3D0A> to manufacture them for e=
ac=3D
h model.=3D0A> =3D0A> Has anyone done the powdercoat on their's??=3D0A> =3D=
0A> Late=3D
r, =3D0A> =3D0A> Carl Ross=3D0A> Cornville, AZ=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A
John Goode on thu 28 jan 10
e fine and it sure is not. I have some serious flaking
Hi
PLEASE keep us updated on the progress as PP has not re contacted me from
my last try two weeks ago when I sent them a note again.
I have powder coated my gates and some implements at the farm and am
impressed but doing my VPM 60 at my expense and it being a maybe it will
work would help to know that it worked for you.
They really need to fix this problem before anyone here buys this machine!
I guess I could just use this for red clay and get another pugmill for
porcelain....
John Goode
watermarktile.com
On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 10:35 AM, steve graber wrote:
> i've used powder coating in other mechanical applications, and find
> anodizing is more durable. powder coating is great for bike frames, plat=
es,
> exposed surfaces that do not get a lot of intimate surface to surface
> contact. it is much better than paint, and i consider it like a classy
> paint job. it will hold up ok for dirt bikes, lawn chairs, etc. but onc=
e a
> sliding force wears it down, it will chip and start really deep crevases.
> anodizing however is a very durable surface treatment and is truly part o=
f
> the metal. machinest hate having to drill or machine any anodized parts
> because it is so durable.
>
> if you're about to consider the expense of using a powder coating shop,
> check with an anodize plating house. their price might be very similar, =
but
> much more durable result. both processes require masking of features you=
do
> not want coated. and you might save a little by offering yourself as the
> "masking guy" for your part. they will show you how to mask parts. it's
> not hard, just time consuming. powder coating is a spray on and bake
> method. anodizing is a bath dip and electrolisis method. spraying
> can yield variations in coating thickness and miss areas. electrolosis c=
an
> reach everywhere and have heavy build up or low coat zones too, except
> electric methods are still more reliable in overall plating coverage.
>
> if i was doing it i would not powder coat but use the anodize process.
> Steve Graber, Graber's Pottery, Inc
> Claremont, California USA
> The Steve Tool - for awesome texture on pots!
> www.graberspottery.com steve@graberspottery.com
>
>
> On Laguna Clay's website
> http://www.lagunaclay.com/blogs/
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Carl Ross
> > To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> > Sent: Wed, January 27, 2010 7:55:48 PM
> > Subject: Re: FW: FW: PETER PUGGER: I was assured that porcelain use wou=
ld
> be fine and it sure is not. I have some serious flaking
> >
> > Just thought I'd share here
> >
> > I'm just getting back onto Clayart, and as of last night have been
> playing
> > around with a used Peter pugger Vpm-30 asessing the situation and how
> much
> > it was going to cost to get things going
> >
> > I was glad to talk to Dan Stultz the plant manager at peter pugger toda=
y,
> > It looks like I too have the problem with flaking but most prominantly =
on
> the
> > final nozzle, and some on segment before that, which is like a giant be=
ll
> > reducer and his first suggestion is sandblasting which they will do, fo=
r
> a cost
> > of course. Their site Mentions powder coating, But I'm sure It would be
> > quicker to use a local shop. Just make sure they use the same type pete=
r
> does
> >
> > I tried working on just a Small area with a sanding pad and some comet
> and
> > elbowgrease and it did come off a very small area after working on it
> quite a
> > while; way too tedious for me. The stuff did flake off in places, but n=
ot
> easily
> >
> > by any means, and most places underneath the corrosion was smooth metal=
.
> >
> > So I am going to have a local powdercoat shop blast them and maybe coat
> > them inside, It's supposed to be pretty durable stuff, though the epoxy
> is an
> > intenteresting, They do make epoxy powder coating which is supposed to =
be
> > Even more durable, but I'm not sure if the Shop uses the epoxy type or
> not.
> >
> > Stainless sleeves would be great, but the shapes would have to be stamp=
ed
> > like mixing bowls are, and I doubt the setup would be cheap for peter
> pugger
> > to manufacture them for each model.
> >
> > Has anyone done the powdercoat on their's??
> >
> > Later,
> >
> > Carl Ross
> > Cornville, AZ
>
>
>
>
>
steve graber on thu 28 jan 10
e fine and it sure is not. I have some serious flaking
"strip and replate" is a common salvage process in plating houses.=3DA0 the=
s=3D
tripping is done in an acid bath and is pretty well controlled so you might=
=3D
lose .007 inches off any surface.=3DA0 generally they can do .004 inches o=
f =3D
clean up.=3DA0 that would be a good first blister clean up before any plati=
ng=3D
.=3DA0 it's certainly cheaper than doing any machining clean up or hand san=
di=3D
ng...=3DA0 =3D0A=3D0Ai'd hate to have an expense of an entire extra pug mil=
l for =3D
one clay unless you really run large volumes.=3DA0 =3D0A=3D0Ahave you ever =
powder=3D
coated any tractor plow blades?=3DA0 that exposure would be a great way to=
c=3D
ompare with a pug mill=3DA0application.=3DA0 =3D0A=3DA0Steve Graber, Graber=
's Potte=3D
ry, Inc=3D0AClaremont, California USA=3D0AThe Steve Tool - for awesome text=
ure =3D
on pots! =3D0Awww.graberspottery.com steve@graberspottery.com =3D0A=3D0A=3D=
0AOn Lag=3D
una Clay's website=3D0Ahttp://www.lagunaclay.com/blogs/ =3D0A=3D0A=3D0A>=3D=
0A>From: J=3D
ohn Goode =3D0A>To: steve graber om=3D
>=3D0A>Cc: Clayart@lsv.ceramics.org=3D0A>Sent: Thu, January 28, 2010 9:25:1=
7 AM=3D
=3D0A>Subject: Re: FW: FW: PETER PUGGER: I was assured that porcelain use w=
ou=3D
ld be fine and it sure is not. I have some serious flaking=3D0A>=3D0A>Hi=3D=
0A>=3DA0=3D
PLEASE keep us updated on the progress as PP has not re contacted me from m=
=3D
y last try two weeks ago when I sent them a note again.=3D0A>I have powder =
co=3D
ated my gates and some implements at the farm and am impressed but doing my=
=3D
VPM 60 at my expense and it being a maybe it will work would help to know =
=3D
that it worked for you.=3D0A>They really need to fix this problem before an=
yo=3D
ne here buys this machine!=3D0A>I guess I could just use this for red clay =
an=3D
d get another pugmill for porcelain....=3D0A>John Goode =3D0A>watermarktile=
.com=3D
=3D0A>=3D0A>=3D0A>On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 10:35 AM, steve graber yahoo.=3D
com> wrote:=3D0A>=3D0A>i've used powder coating in other mechanical applica=
tion=3D
s, and find anodizing is more durable.=3DA0 powder coating is great for bik=
e =3D
frames, plates, exposed surfaces that do not get a lot of intimate surface =
=3D
to surface contact.=3DA0 it is much better than paint, and i consider it li=
ke=3D
a classy paint job.=3DA0 it will hold up ok for dirt bikes, lawn chairs, e=
tc=3D
.=3DA0 but once a sliding force wears it down, it will chip and start reall=
y =3D
deep crevases.=3DA0 anodizing however is a very durable surface treatment a=
nd=3D
is truly part of the metal.=3DA0 machinest hate having to drill or machine=
a=3D
ny anodized parts because it is so durable.=3DA0=3D0A>>=3D0A>>if you're abo=
ut to =3D
consider the expense of using a powder coating shop, check with an anodize =
=3D
plating house.=3DA0 their price might be very similar, but much more durabl=
e =3D
result.=3DA0=3DA0both processes require masking of features you do not want=
coa=3D
ted.=3DA0 and you might save a little by offering yourself as=3DA0the "mask=
ing =3D
guy" for your part.=3DA0 they will show you how to mask parts.=3DA0 it's no=
t ha=3D
rd, just time consuming.=3DA0 powder=3DA0coating is a spray on and bake met=
hod.=3D
=3DA0 anodizing is a bath dip and electrolisis method.=3DA0 spraying can=3D=
A0yiel=3D
d variations in coating thickness and miss areas.=3DA0=3DA0electrolosis can=
rea=3D
ch everywhere and have heavy build up or low coat zones too, except electri=
=3D
c methods are still more reliable in overall plating coverage.=3DA0=3D0A>>=
=3D0A>>=3D
if i was doing it i would not powder coat but use the anodize process.=3DA0=
=3D
=3D0A>>=3DA0Steve Graber, Graber's Pottery, Inc=3D0A>>Claremont, California=
USA=3D
=3D0A>>The Steve Tool - for awesome texture on pots!=3D0A>>www.graberspotte=
ry.c=3D
om steve@graberspottery.com=3D0A>>=3D0A>>=3D0A>>On Laguna Clay's website=3D=
0A>>http=3D
://www.lagunaclay.com/blogs/=3D0A>>=3D0A>>=3D0A>>=3D0A>>=3D0A>>----- Origin=
al Message=3D
----=3D0A>>> From: Carl Ross =3D0A>>> To: Clayart@LSV=
.CER=3D
AMICS.ORG=3D0A>>> Sent: Wed, January 27, 2010 7:55:48 PM=3D0A>>> Subject: R=
e: F=3D
W: FW: PETER PUGGER: I was assured that porcelain use would be fine and it =
=3D
sure is not. I have some serious flaking=3D0A>>>=3D0A>>> Just thought I'd s=
hare=3D
here=3D0A>>>=3D0A>>> I'm just getting back onto Clayart, and as of last ni=
ght =3D
have been playing=3D0A>>> around with a used Peter pugger Vpm-30 asessing t=
he=3D
situation and how much=3D0A>>> it was going to cost to get things going=3D=
0A>>=3D
>=3D0A>>> I was glad to talk to Dan Stultz the plant manager at peter pugge=
r =3D
today,=3D0A>>> It looks like I too have the problem with flaking but most p=
ro=3D
minantly on the=3D0A>>> final nozzle, and some on segment before that, whic=
h =3D
is like a giant bell=3D0A>>> reducer and his first suggestion is sandblasti=
ng=3D
which they will do, for a cost=3D0A>>> of course. Their site Mentions powd=
er=3D
coating, But I'm sure It would be=3D0A>>> quicker to use a local shop. Jus=
t =3D
make sure they use the same type peter does=3D0A>>>=3D0A>>> I tried working=
on =3D
just a Small area with a sanding pad and some comet and=3D0A>>> elbowgrease=
a=3D
nd it did come off a very small area after working on it quite a=3D0A>>> wh=
il=3D
e; way too tedious for me. The stuff did flake off in places, but not easil=
=3D
y=3D0A>>>=3D0A>>> by any means, and most places underneath the corrosion wa=
s sm=3D
ooth metal.=3D0A>>>=3D0A>>> So I am going to have a local powdercoat shop b=
last=3D
them and maybe coat=3D0A>>> them inside, It's supposed to be pretty durabl=
e =3D
stuff, though the epoxy is an=3D0A>>> intenteresting, They do make epoxy po=
wd=3D
er coating which is supposed to be=3D0A>>> Even more durable, but I'm not s=
ur=3D
e if the Shop uses the epoxy type or not.=3D0A>>>=3D0A>>> Stainless sleeves=
wou=3D
ld be great, but the shapes would have to be stamped=3D0A>>> like mixing bo=
wl=3D
s are, and I doubt the setup would be cheap for peter pugger=3D0A>>> to man=
uf=3D
acture them for each model.=3D0A>>>=3D0A>>> Has anyone done the powdercoat =
on t=3D
heir's??=3D0A>>>=3D0A>>> Later,=3D0A>>>=3D0A>>> Carl Ross=3D0A>>> Cornville=
, AZ=3D0A>>=3D
=3D0A>>=3D0A>>=3D0A>>=3D0A>>=3D0A>=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A
James Freeman on thu 28 jan 10
e fine and it sure is not. I have some serious flaking
You can powder coat the parts yourself at home. Sears sells a
self-contained powder coating gun for about $200. You can get a compressor
driven model for $150:
http://www.amazon.com/Eastwood-Hotcoat-Powder-Coating-Starter/dp/B001EDZUR0=
/ref=3Dsr_1_1?ie=3DUTF8&s=3Dhi&qid=3D1264714922&sr=3D8-1
These systems are designed for use with a standard toaster oven or kitchen
oven at 400 degrees, but since you already have a kiln, the process is
cheaper yet.
Have fun.
...James
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I should
not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/clayart/
On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 11:35 AM, steve graber wrote:
> i've used powder coating in other mechanical applications, and find
> anodizing is more durable. powder coating is great for bike frames, plat=
es,
> exposed surfaces that do not get a lot of intimate surface to surface
> contact.
>
Philip Poburka on fri 29 jan 10
e fine and it sure is not. I have some serious flaking
Hi John, all...
I have never been around Pug Mills to have any experience or mental model o=
f
their interior or other engineering...but...
Are we satisfied that the corrososion/galvanic/scaling/flaking/erosion
issues are due to transient occasional Clay passing through as the Machine
runs and processes the Clay? And the Machine cleaned and dried after use?
Or, from Wet Clay left indifferently sitting for long periods in the
not-cleaned-out-and-dried Machine after use?
This may have some importance if the problem is to be identified/understood
practically.
Phil
Lv
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Rodgers"
> Because the interior of all pug mills lives in an abrasive environment,
> there will always be some grinding away on the surface. Stainless would
> be best, but I wounder Chrome electroplating would work?
>
> John Rodgers
> Clayartist and Moldmaker
> 88'GL VW Bus Driver
> Chelsea, AL
> Http://www.moldhaus.com
>
>
>
> steve graber wrote:
>> we powder coated our own parts in a production mode at Adams Rite
>> Manufacturing - the people who make a lot of "push bars" to exit doors
>> like you see at Arby's, Taco Bell, Office buidings, etc. we found to ge=
t
>> truly reliable powder coating you had to do significant prep work on the
>> parts, and MUST keep control of your air quality. simple things that
>> could be in the air that destroy powder coat reliability are solvents an=
d
>> oils. one killer we made sure was NOT in the building was silicon spray=
.
>> we used to outsoruce our powder coating then when we moved to a brand ne=
w
>> building we et up a powder coat room and keeping that stuff completely
>> out was somewhat easy.
>>
>> i also worked at a company called Lights of America (where hardly
>> anything is truly made in america) and they had a VERY low budget powder
>> coat system they have used for some 30 years. with their extreme lack o=
f
>> dust control the entire building (2 or 3 Home Depot sizes?) there is not
>> a location anywhere that you do not see grey powder build up laying
>> around from their powder coating of typical shop lights. i worked there
>> for almost 2 years and felt my lungs nearly explode... took several
>> months after leaving to breath more norma after them and i still wonder
>> what normal is?
>>
>> for general use, home based powder coating is fine. like someone
>> mentioned property gates, etc. but as a way to fix the ongoing pug mill
>> problems, home based powder coating may simply introduce still more weir=
d
>> results.
>> Steve Graber, Graber's Pottery, Inc
>> Claremont, California USA
>> The Steve Tool - for awesome texture on pots!
>> www.graberspottery.com steve@graberspottery.com
>>
>>
>> On Laguna Clay's website
>> http://www.lagunaclay.com/blogs/
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>>
>>> From: James Freeman
>>> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>>> Sent: Thu, January 28, 2010 1:47:52 PM
>>> Subject: Re: FW: FW: PETER PUGGER: I was assured that porcelain use
>>> would be fine and it sure is not. I have some serious flaking
>>>
>>> You can powder coat the parts yourself at home. Sears sells a
>>> self-contained powder coating gun for about $200. You can get a
>>> compressor
>>> driven model for $150:
>>>
>>> http://www.amazon.com/Eastwood-Hotcoat-Powder-Coating-Starter/dp/B001ED=
ZUR0/ref=3Dsr_1_1?ie=3DUTF8&s=3Dhi&qid=3D1264714922&sr=3D8-1
>>>
>>> These systems are designed for use with a standard toaster oven or
>>> kitchen
>>> oven at 400 degrees, but since you already have a kiln, the process is
>>> cheaper yet.
>>>
>>> Have fun.
>>>
>>> ...James
>>>
>>> James Freeman
>>>
>>> "All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I
>>> should
>>> not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
>>> -Michel de Montaigne
>>>
>>> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
>>> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/clayart/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 11:35 AM, steve graber wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> i've used powder coating in other mechanical applications, and find
>>>> anodizing is more durable. powder coating is great for bike frames,
>>>> plates,
>>>> exposed surfaces that do not get a lot of intimate surface to surface
>>>> contact.
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
steve graber on fri 29 jan 10
e fine and it sure is not. I have some serious flaking
we powder coated our own parts in a production mode at Adams Rite Manufactu=
=3D
ring - the people=3DA0who make a lot of "push bars" to exit doors like you =
se=3D
e at Arby's, Taco Bell, Office buidings, etc.=3DA0=3DA0we found to get trul=
y re=3D
liable powder coating you had to do significant prep work on the parts, and=
=3D
MUST keep control of your air quality.=3DA0 simple things that could be in=
t=3D
he air that destroy powder coat reliability are solvents=3DA0and oils.=3DA0=
one=3D
killer we made sure was NOT in the building was silicon spray.=3DA0 we=3DA=
0use=3D
d to outsoruce our powder coating then=3DA0when we moved to a brand new bui=
ld=3D
ing we et up a powder coat room and keeping that stuff completely out was s=
=3D
omewhat easy.=3DA0 =3D0A=3D0Ai also worked at a company called Lights of Am=
erica =3D
(where hardly anything is truly made in america) and they had a VERY low bu=
=3D
dget powder coat system they have used for some 30 years.=3DA0 with their e=
xt=3D
reme lack of dust control the entire building (2 or 3 Home Depot sizes?) th=
=3D
ere is not a location anywhere that you do not see grey powder build up lay=
=3D
ing around from their powder coating of typical shop lights.=3DA0 i worked =
th=3D
ere for almost 2 years and felt my lungs nearly explode...=3DA0 took severa=
l =3D
months after leaving to breath more norma after them and i still wonder wha=
=3D
t normal is?=3DA0 =3D0A=3D0Afor general use, home based powder coating is f=
ine.=3D
=3DA0 like someone mentioned property gates, etc.=3DA0=3DA0but as a way to =
fix th=3D
e ongoing pug mill problems,=3DA0home based powder coating=3DA0may simply i=
ntro=3D
duce still more weird results.=3DA0 =3D0A=3DA0Steve Graber, Graber's Potter=
y, Inc=3D
=3D0AClaremont, California USA=3D0AThe Steve Tool - for awesome texture on =
pots=3D
! =3D0Awww.graberspottery.com steve@graberspottery.com =3D0A=3D0A=3D0AOn La=
guna Cla=3D
y's website=3D0Ahttp://www.lagunaclay.com/blogs/ =3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A----- =
Original M=3D
essage ----=3D0A> From: James Freeman =3D0A> =
To: =3D
Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=3D0A> Sent: Thu, January 28, 2010 1:47:52 PM=3D0A>=
Sub=3D
ject: Re: FW: FW: PETER PUGGER: I was assured that porcelain use would be f=
=3D
ine and it sure is not. I have some serious flaking=3D0A> =3D0A> You can po=
wder=3D
coat the parts yourself at home.=3DA0 Sears sells a=3D0A> self-contained p=
owde=3D
r coating gun for about $200.=3DA0 You can get a compressor=3D0A> driven mo=
del =3D
for $150:=3D0A> =3D0A> http://www.amazon.com/Eastwood-Hotcoat-Powder-Coatin=
g-St=3D
arter/dp/B001EDZUR0/ref=3D3Dsr_1_1?ie=3D3DUTF8&s=3D3Dhi&qid=3D3D1264714922&=
sr=3D3D8-1=3D
=3D0A> =3D0A> These systems are designed for use with a standard toaster ov=
en o=3D
r kitchen=3D0A> oven at 400 degrees, but since you already have a kiln, the=
p=3D
rocess is=3D0A> cheaper yet.=3D0A> =3D0A> Have fun.=3D0A> =3D0A> ...James=
=3D0A> =3D0A> Ja=3D
mes Freeman=3D0A> =3D0A> "All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by =
way =3D
of advice.=3DA0 I should=3D0A> not speak so boldly if it were my due to be =
beli=3D
eved."=3D0A> -Michel de Montaigne=3D0A> =3D0A> http://www.jamesfreemanstudi=
o.com=3D
=3D0A> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/=3D0A> http://www.ja=
mesf=3D
reemanstudio.com/clayart/=3D0A> =3D0A> =3D0A> =3D0A> On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 a=
t 11:35 =3D
AM, steve graber wrote:=3D0A> =3D0A> > i've used powder coating in other me=
chan=3D
ical applications, and find=3D0A> > anodizing is more durable.=3DA0 powder =
coat=3D
ing is great for bike frames, plates,=3D0A> > exposed surfaces that do not =
ge=3D
t a lot of intimate surface to surface=3D0A> > contact.=3D0A> >=3D0A=3D0A=
=3D0A=3D0A =3D
John Rodgers on fri 29 jan 10
e fine and it sure is not. I have some serious flaking
Because the interior of all pug mills lives in an abrasive environment,
there will always be some grinding away on the surface. Stainless would
be best, but I wounder Chrome electroplating would work?
John Rodgers
Clayartist and Moldmaker
88'GL VW Bus Driver
Chelsea, AL
Http://www.moldhaus.com
steve graber wrote:
> we powder coated our own parts in a production mode at Adams Rite Manufac=
turing - the people who make a lot of "push bars" to exit doors like you se=
e at Arby's, Taco Bell, Office buidings, etc. we found to get truly reliab=
le powder coating you had to do significant prep work on the parts, and MUS=
T keep control of your air quality. simple things that could be in the air=
that destroy powder coat reliability are solvents and oils. one killer we=
made sure was NOT in the building was silicon spray. we used to outsoruce=
our powder coating then when we moved to a brand new building we et up a p=
owder coat room and keeping that stuff completely out was somewhat easy.
>
> i also worked at a company called Lights of America (where hardly anythin=
g is truly made in america) and they had a VERY low budget powder coat syst=
em they have used for some 30 years. with their extreme lack of dust contr=
ol the entire building (2 or 3 Home Depot sizes?) there is not a location a=
nywhere that you do not see grey powder build up laying around from their p=
owder coating of typical shop lights. i worked there for almost 2 years an=
d felt my lungs nearly explode... took several months after leaving to bre=
ath more norma after them and i still wonder what normal is?
>
> for general use, home based powder coating is fine. like someone mention=
ed property gates, etc. but as a way to fix the ongoing pug mill problems,=
home based powder coating may simply introduce still more weird results.
> Steve Graber, Graber's Pottery, Inc
> Claremont, California USA
> The Steve Tool - for awesome texture on pots!
> www.graberspottery.com steve@graberspottery.com
>
>
> On Laguna Clay's website
> http://www.lagunaclay.com/blogs/
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
>
>> From: James Freeman
>> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>> Sent: Thu, January 28, 2010 1:47:52 PM
>> Subject: Re: FW: FW: PETER PUGGER: I was assured that porcelain use woul=
d be fine and it sure is not. I have some serious flaking
>>
>> You can powder coat the parts yourself at home. Sears sells a
>> self-contained powder coating gun for about $200. You can get a compres=
sor
>> driven model for $150:
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Eastwood-Hotcoat-Powder-Coating-Starter/dp/B001EDZ=
UR0/ref=3Dsr_1_1?ie=3DUTF8&s=3Dhi&qid=3D1264714922&sr=3D8-1
>>
>> These systems are designed for use with a standard toaster oven or kitch=
en
>> oven at 400 degrees, but since you already have a kiln, the process is
>> cheaper yet.
>>
>> Have fun.
>>
>> ...James
>>
>> James Freeman
>>
>> "All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I shou=
ld
>> not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
>> -Michel de Montaigne
>>
>> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
>> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/clayart/
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 11:35 AM, steve graber wrote:
>>
>>
>>> i've used powder coating in other mechanical applications, and find
>>> anodizing is more durable. powder coating is great for bike frames, pl=
ates,
>>> exposed surfaces that do not get a lot of intimate surface to surface
>>> contact.
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Carl Ross on sat 30 jan 10
e fine and it sure is not. I have some serious flaking
For now, I'm thinking about just sand blasting. I got to thinking about the
powdercoat I've seen out there and it eventually does fail, especially
considering any grog or sand a body may have, the anodizing does sound
appealing though, im not sure where i'd find someone who does anodizing.
Thanks for all the info
On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 6:00 PM, John Rodgers wrote:
> Because the interior of all pug mills lives in an abrasive environment,
> there will always be some grinding away on the surface. Stainless would
> be best, but I wounder Chrome electroplating would work?
>
> John Rodgers
> Clayartist and Moldmaker
> 88'GL VW Bus Driver
> Chelsea, AL
> Http://www.moldhaus.com
>
>
>
>
> steve graber wrote:
>
>> we powder coated our own parts in a production mode at Adams Rite
>> Manufacturing - the people who make a lot of "push bars" to exit doors l=
ike
>> you see at Arby's, Taco Bell, Office buidings, etc. we found to get tru=
ly
>> reliable powder coating you had to do significant prep work on the parts=
,
>> and MUST keep control of your air quality. simple things that could be =
in
>> the air that destroy powder coat reliability are solvents and oils. one
>> killer we made sure was NOT in the building was silicon spray. we used =
to
>> outsoruce our powder coating then when we moved to a brand new building =
we
>> et up a powder coat room and keeping that stuff completely out was somew=
hat
>> easy.
>>
>> i also worked at a company called Lights of America (where hardly anythi=
ng
>> is truly made in america) and they had a VERY low budget powder coat sys=
tem
>> they have used for some 30 years. with their extreme lack of dust contr=
ol
>> the entire building (2 or 3 Home Depot sizes?) there is not a location
>> anywhere that you do not see grey powder build up laying around from the=
ir
>> powder coating of typical shop lights. i worked there for almost 2 year=
s
>> and felt my lungs nearly explode... took several months after leaving t=
o
>> breath more norma after them and i still wonder what normal is?
>>
>> for general use, home based powder coating is fine. like someone
>> mentioned property gates, etc. but as a way to fix the ongoing pug mill
>> problems, home based powder coating may simply introduce still more weir=
d
>> results.
>> Steve Graber, Graber's Pottery, Inc
>> Claremont, California USA
>> The Steve Tool - for awesome texture on pots!
>> www.graberspottery.com steve@graberspottery.com
>>
>>
>> On Laguna Clay's website
>> http://www.lagunaclay.com/blogs/
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>>
>> From: James Freeman
>>> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>>> Sent: Thu, January 28, 2010 1:47:52 PM
>>> Subject: Re: FW: FW: PETER PUGGER: I was assured that porcelain use wou=
ld
>>> be fine and it sure is not. I have some serious flaking
>>>
>>> You can powder coat the parts yourself at home. Sears sells a
>>> self-contained powder coating gun for about $200. You can get a
>>> compressor
>>> driven model for $150:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.amazon.com/Eastwood-Hotcoat-Powder-Coating-Starter/dp/B001ED=
ZUR0/ref=3Dsr_1_1?ie=3DUTF8&s=3Dhi&qid=3D1264714922&sr=3D8-1
>>>
>>> These systems are designed for use with a standard toaster oven or
>>> kitchen
>>> oven at 400 degrees, but since you already have a kiln, the process is
>>> cheaper yet.
>>>
>>> Have fun.
>>>
>>> ...James
>>>
>>> James Freeman
>>>
>>> "All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I
>>> should
>>> not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
>>> -Michel de Montaigne
>>>
>>> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
>>> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/clayart/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 11:35 AM, steve graber wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> i've used powder coating in other mechanical applications, and find
>>>> anodizing is more durable. powder coating is great for bike frames,
>>>> plates,
>>>> exposed surfaces that do not get a lot of intimate surface to surface
>>>> contact.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
Phoenix Rising Farm on sat 30 jan 10
e fine and it sure is not. I have some serious flaking
Like many other things in the constantly variable world of clay,
the only "true" answer is "it depends".
The only "almost" completely non-abrasive surface of which I'm aware is
diamond. If you're going to plate the inside of your pugmill with
diamond, please let me know.
I have use for the scrap material left over .
The trick to all this is to find the material which
_for_your_application_and_material_
is going to hold up better against the abrasion than any other. For one
person, it might be polyethylene
plastic, for another chrome. It depends....(don't you hate that?)
My Peter Pugger has never suffered pitting and/or corrosion from porcelain.
Perhaps the porcelain I use and have used in the past is less reactive
to the aluminum
of my pugger barrel (VPM-30). I know the porcelain turns gray, but it
burns out in the bisque firing
back to white, so I don't care. I live with it, and I don't worry. The
material
comprising the barrel is thick enough that it will certainly outlast me
should I live another 40 years...
so why bother worrying if it pits a little? No one ever said the damn
machines were indestructible,
nor were they marketed that way. For me, it's a non-issue.
I suppose the lasting workaround would be to remove all the clay from
the pugger once you're
done pugging, and clean the pugmill. Yeah...like THAT'S going to happen
in most studios.
Best,
Wayne Seidl
On 1/29/2010 8:00 PM, John Rodgers wrote:
> Because the interior of all pug mills lives in an abrasive environment,
> there will always be some grinding away on the surface. Stainless would
> be best, but I wounder Chrome electroplating would work?
>
> John Rodgers
> Clayartist and Moldmaker
> 88'GL VW Bus Driver
> Chelsea, AL
> Http://www.moldhaus.com
>
John Goode on sat 30 jan 10
e fine and it sure is not. I have some serious flaking
Hi Clay friends...
Danny from Peter Pugger called me yesterday and explained the pitting
situation is caused by a feldspar and aluminum reaction.The solution is to
either powder coat or nickel plate the machines inside outer barrel since
the auger is stainless it is not affected. So now I need to decide to take
apart and send back to have done for a cost or have it done locally or
convert machine to red clay.Lately I have been using more red clay than
porcelain but eventually I will do porcelain for other works.It may be more
practical to get another machine but with this economy and currently slow
sales it may be best to keep doing R and D until things pick up.
I wish the machine was solid stainless steel and cost a bit more from the
start but I understand why this does not happen because of cost and market
effect.
Danny also explained to me about the tile nozzle that I have and how it ha=
d
been improved since I have the first one that went out of there and he woul=
d
replace it too!
Today I plan to take it apart and see whats inside since its been a while
since Ive used it as Ive been using a Blue bird 440 for red that I got here
on Clayart two years ago.Mel posted a message for someone in Colorado who
had it. I emailed her sent her the money and had it shipped. No games or
haggles just a nice way to get a tool.This is a wonderful community when
things like this arise and you can get information from all directions.
Thanks Clayart!!
John Goode
watermarktile.com
On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 1:43 AM, Philip Poburka wrote:
> Hi John, all...
>
>
>
> I have never been around Pug Mills to have any experience or mental model
> of
> their interior or other engineering...but...
>
>
> Are we satisfied that the corrososion/galvanic/scaling/flaking/erosion
> issues are due to transient occasional Clay passing through as the Machin=
e
> runs and processes the Clay? And the Machine cleaned and dried after use?
>
> Or, from Wet Clay left indifferently sitting for long periods in the
> not-cleaned-out-and-dried Machine after use?
>
>
> This may have some importance if the problem is to be identified/understo=
od
> practically.
>
>
>
> Phil
> Lv
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Rodgers"
>
>
> Because the interior of all pug mills lives in an abrasive environment,
>> there will always be some grinding away on the surface. Stainless would
>> be best, but I wounder Chrome electroplating would work?
>>
>> John Rodgers
>> Clayartist and Moldmaker
>> 88'GL VW Bus Driver
>> Chelsea, AL
>> Http://www.moldhaus.com
>>
>>
>>
>> steve graber wrote:
>>
>>> we powder coated our own parts in a production mode at Adams Rite
>>> Manufacturing - the people who make a lot of "push bars" to exit doors
>>> like you see at Arby's, Taco Bell, Office buidings, etc. we found to g=
et
>>> truly reliable powder coating you had to do significant prep work on th=
e
>>> parts, and MUST keep control of your air quality. simple things that
>>> could be in the air that destroy powder coat reliability are solvents a=
nd
>>> oils. one killer we made sure was NOT in the building was silicon spra=
y.
>>> we used to outsoruce our powder coating then when we moved to a brand n=
ew
>>> building we et up a powder coat room and keeping that stuff completely
>>> out was somewhat easy.
>>>
>>> i also worked at a company called Lights of America (where hardly
>>> anything is truly made in america) and they had a VERY low budget powde=
r
>>> coat system they have used for some 30 years. with their extreme lack =
of
>>> dust control the entire building (2 or 3 Home Depot sizes?) there is no=
t
>>> a location anywhere that you do not see grey powder build up laying
>>> around from their powder coating of typical shop lights. i worked ther=
e
>>> for almost 2 years and felt my lungs nearly explode... took several
>>> months after leaving to breath more norma after them and i still wonder
>>> what normal is?
>>>
>>> for general use, home based powder coating is fine. like someone
>>> mentioned property gates, etc. but as a way to fix the ongoing pug mil=
l
>>> problems, home based powder coating may simply introduce still more wei=
rd
>>> results.
>>> Steve Graber, Graber's Pottery, Inc
>>> Claremont, California USA
>>> The Steve Tool - for awesome texture on pots!
>>> www.graberspottery.com steve@graberspottery.com
>>>
>>>
>>> On Laguna Clay's website
>>> http://www.lagunaclay.com/blogs/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>>
>>> From: James Freeman
>>>> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>>>> Sent: Thu, January 28, 2010 1:47:52 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: FW: FW: PETER PUGGER: I was assured that porcelain use
>>>> would be fine and it sure is not. I have some serious flaking
>>>>
>>>> You can powder coat the parts yourself at home. Sears sells a
>>>> self-contained powder coating gun for about $200. You can get a
>>>> compressor
>>>> driven model for $150:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Eastwood-Hotcoat-Powder-Coating-Starter/dp/B001E=
DZUR0/ref=3Dsr_1_1?ie=3DUTF8&s=3Dhi&qid=3D1264714922&sr=3D8-1
>>>>
>>>> These systems are designed for use with a standard toaster oven or
>>>> kitchen
>>>> oven at 400 degrees, but since you already have a kiln, the process is
>>>> cheaper yet.
>>>>
>>>> Have fun.
>>>>
>>>> ...James
>>>>
>>>> James Freeman
>>>>
>>>> "All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I
>>>> should
>>>> not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
>>>> -Michel de Montaigne
>>>>
>>>> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
>>>> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/clayart/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 11:35 AM, steve graber wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> i've used powder coating in other mechanical applications, and find
>>>>> anodizing is more durable. powder coating is great for bike frames,
>>>>> plates,
>>>>> exposed surfaces that do not get a lot of intimate surface to surface
>>>>> contact.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
Michael Wendt on sat 30 jan 10
e fine and it sure is not. I have some serious flaking
When I built my original plain steel pug mill, I went to
Lewiston Plating Works and the operator told me two things:
1. The cost of plating would be very expensive
2. Chrome plating will peel off in sheets if a nick anywhere
breaks the continuity of the chrome film releasing razor
sharp pieces of chrome. I have seen this occur on automotive
bumpers.
I also talked to Custom Coat (the powder coating company
down the block from us) and he told me powder coatings and
epoxies do the same thing. If the surface gets cut and the
material underneath will corrode, the coating can flake off
in chunks.
I still think stainless steel is the best material for the
construction of this kind of equipment. The Peter Pugger
design is good enough to warrant the extra cost.
Regards,
Michael Wendt
Phil wrtoe:
Hi John, all...
I have never been around Pug Mills to have any experience or
mental model of
their interior or other engineering...but...
Are we satisfied that the
corrososion/galvanic/scaling/flaking/erosion
issues are due to transient occasional Clay passing through
as the Machine
runs and processes the Clay? And the Machine cleaned and
dried after use?
Or, from Wet Clay left indifferently sitting for long
periods in the
not-cleaned-out-and-dried Machine after use?
This may have some importance if the problem is to be
identified/understood
practically.
Phil
Lv
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