Brenda Phillips on wed 6 jan 10
Porcelain clay bodies and pugmills seem to be a problem that no one has =3D
an answer for unless the pugmills are made stainless steel. =3D20
Peter Pugger put a hard anodize coating on my pugmill which worked =3D
beautifully for a few months, but now it is corroded again. When I =3D
called Bailey about it, they said that they were having the same problem =
=3D
with the ceramic epoxy coating. He said that there is a reaction with =3D
the soda feldspar in the clay and the aluminum which eventually abrades =3D
the coating..
I use Icelia clay from Clay planet. I would like to try the Frost since =
=3D
Marcia said that she is not having corrosion. Does anyone have a =3D
problem with Frost and their pugmill?
Are there any other cone 6 porcelain clay bodies that work well with =3D
pugmills?
Do I need to have my pugmill recoated before trying a new claybody?
Brenda Phillips
on the coast at Manchester, CA
David Beumee on thu 7 jan 10
The old Bluebird pugmills had the same problem of putting hard scale into
the porcelain from the inside of the cast aluminum barrel. Bluebird changed
the alloy of the metal and I have encountered no problems with my 115V Mode=
l
440 deairing pugmill. I sure wish these manufacturers would get together an=
d
help each other out when a discovery has been made. It IS possible to get a=
n
aluminum barrel to work, although that fact is cold comfort now.
David Beumee
Lafayette, CO
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 3:09 PM, Brenda Phillips wrote:
> Porcelain clay bodies and pugmills seem to be a problem that no one has a=
n
> answer for unless the pugmills are made stainless steel.
>
> Peter Pugger put a hard anodize coating on my pugmill which worked
> beautifully for a few months, but now it is corroded again. When I calle=
d
> Bailey about it, they said that they were having the same problem with th=
e
> ceramic epoxy coating. He said that there is a reaction with the soda
> feldspar in the clay and the aluminum which eventually abrades the coatin=
g..
> I use Icelia clay from Clay planet. I would like to try the Frost since
> Marcia said that she is not having corrosion. Does anyone have a problem
> with Frost and their pugmill?
>
> Are there any other cone 6 porcelain clay bodies that work well with
> pugmills?
>
> Do I need to have my pugmill recoated before trying a new claybody?
>
>
> Brenda Phillips
> on the coast at Manchester, CA
>
David Beumee on thu 7 jan 10
Hi Brenda,
Do I understand you correctly that you were not using your vacuum to deair
the clay and you were not having trouble with chips in your clay, but now,
straight from the bag, you are deairing the clay and you have chips in the
clay, and it's coming out so short that you can break it apart?
David Beumee
On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 5:03 PM, Brenda Phillips wrote:
> Thanks for your reply. Did you ever have trouble with the clay being
> short? If I put clay into the pugmill straight from the bag it comes out
> short. I can break it into pieces easily. It loses its plasticity.
> I use the deairer. It wasn't doing this before the chips corroded off.
> I'm getting very frustrated and I'm sure Peter Pugger is frustrated with
> me.
> Thanks,
> Brenda
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* David Beumee
> *To:* Brenda Phillips
> *Cc:* Clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 07, 2010 6:33 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Porcelain and pugmills
>
> The old Bluebird pugmills had the same problem of putting hard scale into
> the porcelain from the inside of the cast aluminum barrel. Bluebird chang=
ed
> the alloy of the metal and I have encountered no problems with my 115V Mo=
del
> 440 deairing pugmill. I sure wish these manufacturers would get together =
and
> help each other out when a discovery has been made. It IS possible to get=
an
> aluminum barrel to work, although that fact is cold comfort now.
>
> David Beumee
> Lafayette, CO
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 3:09 PM, Brenda Phillips wrote:
>
>> Porcelain clay bodies and pugmills seem to be a problem that no one has =
an
>> answer for unless the pugmills are made stainless steel.
>>
>> Peter Pugger put a hard anodize coating on my pugmill which worked
>> beautifully for a few months, but now it is corroded again. When I call=
ed
>> Bailey about it, they said that they were having the same problem with t=
he
>> ceramic epoxy coating. He said that there is a reaction with the soda
>> feldspar in the clay and the aluminum which eventually abrades the coati=
ng..
>> I use Icelia clay from Clay planet. I would like to try the Frost since
>> Marcia said that she is not having corrosion. Does anyone have a proble=
m
>> with Frost and their pugmill?
>>
>> Are there any other cone 6 porcelain clay bodies that work well with
>> pugmills?
>>
>> Do I need to have my pugmill recoated before trying a new claybody?
>>
>>
>> Brenda Phillips
>> on the coast at Manchester, CA
>>
>
>
Philip Poburka on fri 8 jan 10
Hi David, all...
I have never been around these Machines to see their layout.
Possibly, a press-fit Bronze or Stainless Steel 'liner' would end the
Galvanic/Labile/Oxide issues inherent of exposing an Aluminum Alloy to Clay
damp Chemistry?
Phil
Lv
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Beumee"
> Apparently the hard anodized coating is not sufficient to prevent a
> reaction
> between the porcelain and the barrel of the mill. How the reaction causes
> the clay to become short sounds like it might be a separate issue, but in
> any case, my advise is to inform the manufacturer that your pugmill isn't
> working and you are returning it for a refund. Again, this issue of
> scaling
> has been solved by the particular aluminum alloy now used by Bluebird in
> their mills. My model 440 deairing pugmill is a workhorse, and I've never
> had any problems with flaking of the hard scale that once plagued Bluebir=
d
> pugmills. The scaling off the walls of an old 1970's Bluebird pugmill tha=
t
> I
> once used never made the porcelain short, only extremely irritating to
> use.
>
> David Beumee
> Lafayette, CO
David Beumee on fri 8 jan 10
Apparently the hard anodized coating is not sufficient to prevent a reactio=
n
between the porcelain and the barrel of the mill. How the reaction causes
the clay to become short sounds like it might be a separate issue, but in
any case, my advise is to inform the manufacturer that your pugmill isn't
working and you are returning it for a refund. Again, this issue of scaling
has been solved by the particular aluminum alloy now used by Bluebird in
their mills. My model 440 deairing pugmill is a workhorse, and I've never
had any problems with flaking of the hard scale that once plagued Bluebird
pugmills. The scaling off the walls of an old 1970's Bluebird pugmill that =
I
once used never made the porcelain short, only extremely irritating to use.
David Beumee
Lafayette, CO
On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Brenda Phillips wrote:
> Yes, It is very frustrating because the man at Peter Pugger said that
> the chips shouldn't make the clay short. But when I brought the pugmill
> home from having a hard anodize coating, it worked perfectly. Now there =
are
> bumps all over and the clay comes out short. I assume that you didn't ha=
ve
> this problem.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* David Beumee
> *To:* Brenda Phillips
> *Cc:* clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 07, 2010 5:13 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Porcelain and pugmills
>
> Hi Brenda,
> Do I understand you correctly that you were not using your vacuum to dea=
ir
> the clay and you were not having trouble with chips in your clay, but now=
,
> straight from the bag, you are deairing the clay and you have chips in th=
e
> clay, and it's coming out so short that you can break it apart?
>
> David Beumee
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 5:03 PM, Brenda Phillips wrote:
>
>> Thanks for your reply. Did you ever have trouble with the clay being
>> short? If I put clay into the pugmill straight from the bag it comes ou=
t
>> short. I can break it into pieces easily. It loses its plasticity.
>> I use the deairer. It wasn't doing this before the chips corroded off.
>> I'm getting very frustrated and I'm sure Peter Pugger is frustrated wit=
h
>> me.
>> Thanks,
>> Brenda
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* David Beumee
>> *To:* Brenda Phillips
>> *Cc:* Clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 07, 2010 6:33 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: Porcelain and pugmills
>>
>> The old Bluebird pugmills had the same problem of putting hard scale int=
o
>> the porcelain from the inside of the cast aluminum barrel. Bluebird chan=
ged
>> the alloy of the metal and I have encountered no problems with my 115V M=
odel
>> 440 deairing pugmill. I sure wish these manufacturers would get together=
and
>> help each other out when a discovery has been made. It IS possible to ge=
t an
>> aluminum barrel to work, although that fact is cold comfort now.
>>
>> David Beumee
>> Lafayette, CO
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 3:09 PM, Brenda Phillips wrote=
:
>>
>>> Porcelain clay bodies and pugmills seem to be a problem that no one has
>>> an answer for unless the pugmills are made stainless steel.
>>>
>>> Peter Pugger put a hard anodize coating on my pugmill which worked
>>> beautifully for a few months, but now it is corroded again. When I cal=
led
>>> Bailey about it, they said that they were having the same problem with =
the
>>> ceramic epoxy coating. He said that there is a reaction with the soda
>>> feldspar in the clay and the aluminum which eventually abrades the coat=
ing..
>>> I use Icelia clay from Clay planet. I would like to try the Frost sinc=
e
>>> Marcia said that she is not having corrosion. Does anyone have a probl=
em
>>> with Frost and their pugmill?
>>>
>>> Are there any other cone 6 porcelain clay bodies that work well with
>>> pugmills?
>>>
>>> Do I need to have my pugmill recoated before trying a new claybody?
>>>
>>>
>>> Brenda Phillips
>>> on the coast at Manchester, CA
>>>
>>
>>
>
Marcia Selsor on sat 9 jan 10
I am still curious since I have not had this problem. Which is flaking? =3D
The aluminum or the porcelain?
Is metal flaking into the porcelain? I have seen aluminum wheel heads =3D
discolor when clay is left on them. I scour my pugmill after using =3D
because I use it for a variety of clay bodies. It comes apart easily and =
=3D
can be scrubbed. Maybe that is why I don't have this problem. Just =3D
wondering....
Marcia
On Jan 8, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Philip Poburka wrote:
> Hi David, all...
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
> I have never been around these Machines to see their layout.
>=3D20
>=3D20
> Possibly, a press-fit Bronze or Stainless Steel 'liner' would end the
> Galvanic/Labile/Oxide issues inherent of exposing an Aluminum Alloy to =
=3D
Clay
> damp Chemistry?
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
> Phil
> Lv
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Beumee"
>=3D20
>=3D20
>> Apparently the hard anodized coating is not sufficient to prevent a
>> reaction
>> between the porcelain and the barrel of the mill. How the reaction =3D
causes
>> the clay to become short sounds like it might be a separate issue, =3D
but in
>> any case, my advise is to inform the manufacturer that your pugmill =3D
isn't
>> working and you are returning it for a refund. Again, this issue of
>> scaling
>> has been solved by the particular aluminum alloy now used by Bluebird =
=3D
in
>> their mills. My model 440 deairing pugmill is a workhorse, and I've =3D
never
>> had any problems with flaking of the hard scale that once plagued =3D
Bluebird
>> pugmills. The scaling off the walls of an old 1970's Bluebird pugmill =
=3D
that
>> I
>> once used never made the porcelain short, only extremely irritating =3D
to
>> use.
>>=3D20
>> David Beumee
>> Lafayette, CO
>=3D20
Marcia Selsor
http://www.marciaselsor.com
Philip Poburka on sat 9 jan 10
Hi Marcia, all...
Not having a Pug Mill, and, not having any near by I can look at, and, neve=
r
having been around one, I do not know the shape or configuration of the
offending part or Body, to guess on the decision of it being always made of
an Aluminum Alloy.
So...
A) I do not know why a sensible Maker would not merely make the Casting of
Bronze, or...
B) Why a sensible Maker would not use a Bronze or Stainless Steel liner for
the Aluminum Alloy Casting...or...
C) incorporate a Bronze or Stainless Steel preform-complex shape, into a
larger Aluminum Alloy body, so the Clay and Aluminum are never in
contact...or...
D) Elect an appropriate, if possibly more expensive Aluminum Alloy, whose
composition would occasion less probability of instability
chemically/galvanically, for being in contact with wet Clay...or...
E) Insist in the Operation Manual, that Clay not be left IN the Machine,
thus providing about no opportunity for corrupting, leisured chemical
interactions between Clay and Aluminum Alloy internals.
I have no way to simply see the question physically, to understand the
issue/decision/shape of the thing.
So my mention is naive and speculative at best.
Phil
Lv
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marcia Selsor"
I am still curious since I have not had this problem. Which is flaking? The
aluminum or the porcelain?
Is metal flaking into the porcelain? I have seen aluminum wheel heads
discolor when clay is left on them. I scour my pugmill after using because =
I
use it for a variety of clay bodies. It comes apart easily and can be
scrubbed. Maybe that is why I don't have this problem. Just wondering....
Marcia
On Jan 8, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Philip Poburka wrote:
> Hi David, all...
>
>
>
> I have never been around these Machines to see their layout.
>
>
> Possibly, a press-fit Bronze or Stainless Steel 'liner' would end the
> Galvanic/Labile/Oxide issues inherent of exposing an Aluminum Alloy to
> Clay
> damp Chemistry?
>
>
>
> Phil
> Lv
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