Lee Love on thu 7 jan 10
On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Randall Moody wro=
=3D
te:
> an old Harley that at idle gave perfect triplets. Silent motors and cars
> such as the Prius have no soul. They are bland, boring little items with =
=3D
no
> presence. But that is just my opinion.
Apples and oranges. But ain't that why we put balloons and trading
cards on the spokes of our bikes?
Check out theTesla Roadster Brabus Edition. It can sound like any
car you want ( I'd want Star War flying car sounds myself.):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D3DpJddxXP4obI
The regular Tesla Roadster does not sound anything like a Prius.
--
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D97tha=
t is, "T=3D
he
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Bic Wood on thu 7 jan 10
There are some really interesting points in the "silent wheels" message
about silence as an attribute of machinery. Some high points -
" i cannot stand being in a battery car.
no sounds of engineering."
"a p51 mustang has a sound all its own."
"no other tractor sounds that way. i can hear one coming a mile away."
"silent wheels are a new sales gimmick...."
"If you do not know anything about tools, stupidity
is golden."
"if you understand mechanics, driving a car is an adventure of sound
and systems. i hear everything. a bolt loose, a trannie making a hum,
a motor miss."
As a former design engineer I can tell you that the sound of a "battery" ca=
r
actually IS the sound of engineering - at least modern engineering. And
loose bolts, trannie hum, etc. are not the sound of good engineering. The
sounds you describe are actually more likely to be the sounds of parts that
vibrate because they are out of specification, or have worn out because the
material they were made of was not engineered to last long enough, or are
beating against each other because the engineering (or manufacturing)
process did not result in smooth running, efficient equipment, or some othe=
r
sign of engineering/manufacturing that is not good enough.
You are confusing the state of the art for engineering in the 1940s through
about the 1970s period with the state of the art today. As an example,
automobiles built prior to the Japanese engineering/manufacturing revolutio=
n
starting in the 1970s did not actually have the interchangeable parts that
were supposedly introduced by Henry Ford many years before. Sure, you coul=
d
change a mechanical part on vehicles of that period, but you probably neede=
d
at a minimum a large hammer, a set of files, a strong arm, and a lot of tim=
e
and patience to get the new part to fit in place of the old part. The
Japanese vehicles of that period (and somewhat later) were the first to
actually achieve the engineering and manufacturing precision needed to make
parts that were not only easily interchangeable, but were also smoother
running and consequently less noisy and more efficient.
I admit that my 1956 MG required that I pay a lot attention to sounds when =
I
drove it. Most notably I needed to be aware of the sound the fuel pump
behind the passenger seat made when it stopped pumping fuel correctly since
the change in sound gave me about 30 seconds to pull off the road before th=
e
engine died. Also, the sound of the passenger door occasionally swinging
open on left hand turns was a necessary early warning system (well, not tha=
t
early) for the passenger. I still remember the MG fondly and keep thinking
of buying another, but I do not confuse it with the modern vehicles I
currently drive that produce many fewer sounds but much more safety,
reliability, and driving pleasure.
A fondness for the past seems to be a human characteristic. However, it
should not be used as an excuse to stay in that past. If you understand
older mechanics, driving an older car may be "an adventure of sound and
systems", but that does not mean you understand newer mechanical systems an=
d
it certainly does not mean the newer systems are bad compared to the old.
It is interesting that a fondness for the past may even impact the ease of
use, influence, and perhaps the future of something like clayart. Clayart
remains a list serve based product long after other tools are available. A=
s
an example, it is interesting that I can read clayart, potterbarter,
potterybascis (and a number of other hand work related groups) in Yahoo
Groups, but as far as I can tell, only with clayart do I still have to use
the old and rather clunky list serve web interface or email process to post=
.
If clayart is the 1956 MG in this story it will slowly lose users.
(Hopefully I am wrong about this inability to post easily. If so, please
send me instructions for posting from Yahoo.)
Finally, I would like to suggest that one of the quotes in the original pos=
t
could be modified to be an excellent motto for the modern Luddite - "If you
do not know anything about today's tools, stupidity is golden." (You have
to admit that the phrase "modern Luddite" is a funny one.)
Bic Wood
Randall Moody on thu 7 jan 10
I like the sound of machinery. I don't think that machines that make sounds
are poorly engineered at all. I do think that we are getting to a point
where we are over-engineering things, especially cars. My grandfather was a
mechanic and said that the more an engineer puts into a car the more a
mechanic has to fix. My Thomas Stuart Pro wheel makes a good hardy hum. I
like (actually love) it. I also liked the TS kickwheel that I started on
that didn't make any sound. I like machines to feel, sound and operate like
machines. I like the rhythms that good machines make. A friend of mine had
an old Harley that at idle gave perfect triplets. Silent motors and cars
such as the Prius have no soul. They are bland, boring little items with no
presence. But that is just my opinion.
Randall in Atlanta where the promised snow isn't sticking.
Lee on fri 8 jan 10
On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Bic Wood wrote:
>
> As a former design engineer I can tell you that the sound of a "battery" =
car
> actually IS the sound of engineering - at least modern engineering.
Yeah, comparing a Harley to a Prius is Apples and Oranges. The
sound of a Harley is marketing over performance. The sound of a
Tesla blowing the doors off a Corvette is the sound of performance.
Check this out: A turbo charged, inner-cooled hydrogen-electric
hybrid. The turbo charger gives the Prius more sound:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D4nL4iuE2Fqo&feature=3Dfvw
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
"The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a
faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant
and has forgotten the gift." -- Albert Einstein
Bic Wood on fri 8 jan 10
I think you could also say that comparing an old Harley to a Prius is
comparing a vehicle that seemed to get a few miles per quart of oil to a
vehicle that gets over 40 miles to a gallon of gas.
But, there are a few examples (not the Harley) of older engineering that wa=
s
elegant and appropriate enough to still be outstanding. Your recent commen=
t
on the Shimpo cone drive potter's wheel provides an example. That was/is a=
n
excellent wheel. I am not sure why electronics has replaced the cone drive=
.
(Maybe the cone drive was too quite?) I have a vintage Shimpo and a newer
electronic - I mostly use the Shimpo.
Bic
-----Original Message-----
From: togeika@gmail.com [mailto:togeika@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Lee
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 10:32 AM
To: bic@bicwood.com
Cc: Clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
Subject: Re: 1956 MG - Was: silent wheels
On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Bic Wood wrote:
>
> As a former design engineer I can tell you that the sound of a "battery"
car
> actually IS the sound of engineering - at least modern engineering.
Yeah, comparing a Harley to a Prius is Apples and Oranges. The
sound of a Harley is marketing over performance. The sound of a
Tesla blowing the doors off a Corvette is the sound of performance.
Check this out: A turbo charged, inner-cooled hydrogen-electric
hybrid. The turbo charger gives the Prius more sound:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D4nL4iuE2Fqo&feature=3Dfvw
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
"The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a
faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant
and has forgotten the gift." -- Albert Einstein
Lee Love on fri 8 jan 10
On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 10:56 AM, Bic Wood wrote:
> But, there are a few examples (not the Harley) of older engineering that =
=3D
was
> elegant and appropriate enough to still be outstanding.
Yeah. Old tech doesn't necessarily mean bad tech. The DC3 is one
of my favorite aircraft. It is beautiful design.
And some of the old stuff can be upgraded. My Korean
wheel is a wonderful object. It does have seal steel bearings with
grease nipples on them. But it my favorite to work on.
I've always owned things according to how they allowed me to
do what I want to do, rathern than owning things that make me do what
they force me to do.
I get a real kick out of using my Giffen Grip on the Korean whee=
=3D
l.
--
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D97tha=
t is, "T=3D
he
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
douglas fur on fri 8 jan 10
Bic Wood wrote:
56 MG ttehn you know teh line "Lucas- Angel of darkness"?
DRB Seattle
jonathan byler on fri 8 jan 10
cone drive =3D expensive machining =3D more money than cheap electronics
and off the shelf parts which make up the majority of wheels
available. perhaps better, perhaps worse, but it is obviously what
the companies that make them think is the best cost to longevity ratio
for their product to sell at the price people are willing to pay.
On Jan 8, 2010, at 10:56 AM, Bic Wood wrote:
> I think you could also say that comparing an old Harley to a Prius is
> comparing a vehicle that seemed to get a few miles per quart of oil
> to a
> vehicle that gets over 40 miles to a gallon of gas.
>
> But, there are a few examples (not the Harley) of older engineering
> that was
> elegant and appropriate enough to still be outstanding. Your recent
> comment
> on the Shimpo cone drive potter's wheel provides an example. That
> was/is an
> excellent wheel. I am not sure why electronics has replaced the
> cone drive.
> (Maybe the cone drive was too quite?) I have a vintage Shimpo and a
> newer
> electronic - I mostly use the Shimpo.
>
> Bic
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: togeika@gmail.com [mailto:togeika@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Lee
> Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 10:32 AM
> To: bic@bicwood.com
> Cc: Clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> Subject: Re: 1956 MG - Was: silent wheels
>
> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Bic Wood wrote:
>
>>
>> As a former design engineer I can tell you that the sound of a
>> "battery"
> car
>> actually IS the sound of engineering - at least modern engineering.
>
> Yeah, comparing a Harley to a Prius is Apples and Oranges. The
> sound of a Harley is marketing over performance. The sound of a
> Tesla blowing the doors off a Corvette is the sound of performance.
>
> Check this out: A turbo charged, inner-cooled hydrogen-electric
> hybrid. The turbo charger gives the Prius more sound:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D4nL4iuE2Fqo&feature=3Dfvw
>
> --
> Lee Love in Minneapolis
> http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
> "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a
> faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant
> and has forgotten the gift." -- Albert Einstein
James Freeman on fri 8 jan 10
On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 4:43 PM, douglas fur <23drb50@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 56 MG ttehn you know teh line "Lucas- Angel of darkness"?
> DRB Seattle
>
I still drive my 1969 MGB. She's a lovely and spirited thing, proper
British green paint and a license plate that reads "BLOODY L". Growls like
a beast as she (slowly) winds through her gears, and hugs the corners far
better than her skinny little tires and primitive suspension would have one
expect, all while managing to eke out 22 or 23 MPG. She has NEVER left me
stranded. Considering that Lucas was given a total budget of about $100 pe=
r
car for the entire electrical system, I think they did a fine job.
Having said that, if I need to stay warm, dry, clean, and unruffled as I
travel, my highly engineered, boring, almost silent Japanese sedan that
mostly drives itself is my first and obvious choice. For smiles and a
thrill, though, the MG can't be beat.
All the best.
...James
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I should
not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/clayart/
Philip Poburka on sat 9 jan 10
Hi Bic, Vince, James, all...
Some cool Truck scenes...for which, scoot on ahead to say 1:30 to 3:30
timestamp...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D1yFR71trX6M&feature=3Drelated
I Love those Trucks...I could kiss 'em...
Phil
Lv
Steve Irvine on sat 9 jan 10
I like the sounds my wheel makes -- or at least I'm used to them. It's =3D
an Oscar-Paul, and I've been using it since 1968, purchased new from our =
=3D
friend Ron Roy. The wheel has belts, and friction cones, and makes (to =3D
my ear) a harmonious melody of chugs, squeaks and hums. Whenever I do a =3D
demo workshop for a group using a silent wheel it takes me awhile to get =
=3D
used to the eerie quiet. I guess I closely associate the sound with the =3D
process.
About MGs... This past spring I gave a workshop at the Edina Art Center =
=3D
in Minneapolis, and the potter hosting me, Brad Benn, owned a beautiful =3D
British racing green MG from the early 1950s. Brad has owned the car for =
=3D
over 50 years, and has done all of the repair work on it since day one. =3D
He knows every nut and bolt on it, and knows the meaning of every sound =3D
it makes as it rumbles down the street. Much as I enjoyed teaching the =3D
workshop, and meeting everyone, one of the big highlights of the week =3D
for me was Brad taking me for a ride, roaring through the streets of =3D
Minneapolis in the convertible MG. =3D20
Steve Irvine
www.steveirvine.com
| |
|
