Johanna San Inocencio on sun 17 jan 10
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I like porcelain shino and it doesn't pit and crater a lot like some
other shinos. here is an example of a bowl with porcelain shino inside
and Rumoku
inside:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3D2367557&l=3Df09d4345d8&id=3D6386813=
31
331>
outside:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3D2367558&l=3D9ad44dda78&id=3D6386813=
31
331>
Johanna
"A man is as free as he chooses to make himself,
never an atom freer."
The Raven, Lillith by George MacDonald
Larry Kruzan wrote:
> I love pot centered threads I get to learn from!!! So here's my question;
>
> While I know there is nothing in any of the shinos I know about that woul=
d
> be hazardous to our health (after fired that is), why use them as a liner=
?
> Most are rough, a lot craze like crazy, they are covered with pinholes &
> blisters and I would wonder about the liner being water/food tight if the
> body is not fully vitrified.
>
> I love shinos - on the outside but never use them inside. Or am I missing
> something?
>
> Larry Kruzan
> Lost Creek Pottery
> www.lostcreekpottery.com
>
>
>
> ****************************************************
> One fairly common case involving an otherwise good-fitting glaze can occu=
r
> when a shino glaze containing soda ash is used as a liner glaze in mugs,
> pitchers, jars, vases, and other enclosed forms, whether or not the same
> glaze is used on the outside of the piece. Shinos often go on quite
> thickly, and when the soluble soda ash is carried into the claybody durin=
g
> glazing, it all migrates to the outside of the pot during drying (because
> there is little air circulation on the inside). The result can be
> problematic because any residual soda ash left in the claybody can cause =
it
> to over-vitrify and shrink more than normal, while the shino liner glaze
> ends up containing very little soda ash, and thus will be slightly
> underfired, shrinking less than normal. The effect is enough to cause
> dunting during cooling or later on during use.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft
> Tennessee Tech University
> vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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Paul Herman on sun 17 jan 10
Hi Larry,
You wrote:
> I love shinos - on the outside but never use them inside. Or am I
> missing
> something?
You ARE missing something, and that is the color. A lightly applied
shino liner can be like the inside of a conch shell, showing pink, red
or orange, or all three. You have to get it thin enough, in order to
see these colors. A lot of my wood fired pots have one shino or
another on the inside.
To get it thin enough, either water down the liner glaze, or splash
some water on the inside of your bisque ware before pouring the
inside. I usually do both. Shinos mostly all craze, but I am not
really worried about that. Sometimes if you get them really thin there
is no crazing, because they take up silica from the body (I think.)
When I want a nice rosy shino liner, I use Dresang shino, or gold
shino, thin. And do it on a light colored body.
good glazing,
Paul Herman
Great Basin Pottery
Doyle, California US
www.greatbasinpottery.com/
On Jan 17, 2010, at 4:19 PM, Larry Kruzan wrote:
> I love pot centered threads I get to learn from!!! So here's my
> question;
>
> While I know there is nothing in any of the shinos I know about that
> would
> be hazardous to our health (after fired that is), why use them as a
> liner?
> Most are rough, a lot craze like crazy, they are covered with
> pinholes &
> blisters and I would wonder about the liner being water/food tight
> if the
> body is not fully vitrified.
>
> I love shinos - on the outside but never use them inside. Or am I
> missing
> something?
>
> Larry Kruzan
> Lost Creek Pottery
> www.lostcreekpottery.com
>
Vince Pitelka on sun 17 jan 10
Larry Kruzan wrote:
"While I know there is nothing in any of the shinos I know about that would
be hazardous to our health (after fired that is), why use them as a liner?
Most are rough, a lot craze like crazy, they are covered with pinholes &
blisters and I would wonder about the liner being water/food tight if the
body is not fully vitrified."
Larry -
There are lots of shinos that are luscious and smooth, and it is tempting t=
o
use them as liners, but it can lead to the problem I identified unless they
contain no soda ash. As you point out, most shinos would make lousy liner
glazes for standard utilitarian ware.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Jess McKenzie on sun 17 jan 10
Larry
For safety, we use only clear liners, like the one in
MC6G, or Val Cushing's SCVC_5.
We have lined with other glazes, like the C_Harris
Tenmoku, but we don't know how they leach. Mighty
pretty though.
Have you tested your shinos?
~joan and jess
Larry wrote, in part:
"...While I know there is nothing in any of the
shinos I know about that would be hazardous to our
health (after fired that is), why use them
as a liner? Most are rough, a lot craze like crazy,
they are covered with pinholes & blisters and I would
wonder about the liner being water/food tight if the
body is not fully vitrified. ..."
Lou Raye Nichol on sun 17 jan 10
In the discussion about cracking pots, someone said that putting a differen=
t
glaze inside than outside might cause cracking because of diffential shrink
rates.
I want to line drinking vessels with a clear glaze and put Shaners Oribe on
the outside. Would there be any problem to mixing up the oribe with no
copper?
Lou Raye
Lou Raye Nichol
Carbon Trapped Porcelain
919-303-5848
www.louraye.com
pots@louraye.com
Vince Pitelka on sun 17 jan 10
Lou Raye Nichol wrote:
In the discussion about cracking pots, someone said that putting a differen=
t
glaze inside than outside might cause cracking because of diffential shrink
rates. I want to line drinking vessels with a clear glaze and put Shaners
Oribe on
the outside. Would there be any problem to mixing up the oribe with no
copper?
Hi Lou Raye -
That would work fine, but it shouldn't be necessary if your glazes are
well-fitted to your claybody. The only time that different glazes will
cause a pot to crack are if there is a significant disagreement in expansio=
n
between them, or if the kiln is cooled/opened too quickly. I have been
putting different glazes inside/outside on my most of coffee mugs for 40
years, and have encountered cracking only very rarely.
One fairly common case involving an otherwise good-fitting glaze can occur
when a shino glaze containing soda ash is used as a liner glaze in mugs,
pitchers, jars, vases, and other enclosed forms, whether or not the same
glaze is used on the outside of the piece. Shinos often go on quite
thickly, and when the soluble soda ash is carried into the claybody during
glazing, it all migrates to the outside of the pot during drying (because
there is little air circulation on the inside). The result can be
problematic because any residual soda ash left in the claybody can cause it
to over-vitrify and shrink more than normal, while the shino liner glaze
ends up containing very little soda ash, and thus will be slightly
underfired, shrinking less than normal. The effect is enough to cause
dunting during cooling or later on during use.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Larry Kruzan on sun 17 jan 10
I love pot centered threads I get to learn from!!! So here's my question;
While I know there is nothing in any of the shinos I know about that would
be hazardous to our health (after fired that is), why use them as a liner?
Most are rough, a lot craze like crazy, they are covered with pinholes &
blisters and I would wonder about the liner being water/food tight if the
body is not fully vitrified.
I love shinos - on the outside but never use them inside. Or am I missing
something?
Larry Kruzan
Lost Creek Pottery
www.lostcreekpottery.com
****************************************************
One fairly common case involving an otherwise good-fitting glaze can occur
when a shino glaze containing soda ash is used as a liner glaze in mugs,
pitchers, jars, vases, and other enclosed forms, whether or not the same
glaze is used on the outside of the piece. Shinos often go on quite
thickly, and when the soluble soda ash is carried into the claybody during
glazing, it all migrates to the outside of the pot during drying (because
there is little air circulation on the inside). The result can be
problematic because any residual soda ash left in the claybody can cause it
to over-vitrify and shrink more than normal, while the shino liner glaze
ends up containing very little soda ash, and thus will be slightly
underfired, shrinking less than normal. The effect is enough to cause
dunting during cooling or later on during use.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Linda Goodson on sun 17 jan 10
Hello,
I am so glad that you answered this question. I have never worked with
the glaze, Shaner Oribe. I am
the one that brought up the different glaze shrink rates. I am a
hobby/ experimenter/ lover of glazing.
The pots that I saw that shattered did indeed have a significant
difference in there expansion rates.
I enjoy this topic of glaze fit and hope to learn more from you all!
Good evening,
Linda Goodson
Lincolnton, NC
Vince Pitelka wrote:
> Lou Raye Nichol wrote:
> In the discussion about cracking pots, someone said that putting a differ=
ent
> glaze inside than outside might cause cracking because of diffential shri=
nk
> rates. I want to line drinking vessels with a clear glaze and put Shaner=
s
> Oribe on
> the outside. Would there be any problem to mixing up the oribe with no
> copper?
>
> Hi Lou Raye -
> That would work fine, but it shouldn't be necessary if your glazes are
> well-fitted to your claybody. The only time that different glazes will
> cause a pot to crack are if there is a significant disagreement in expans=
ion
> between them, or if the kiln is cooled/opened too quickly. I have been
> putting different glazes inside/outside on my most of coffee mugs for 40
> years, and have encountered cracking only very rarely.
>
> One fairly common case involving an otherwise good-fitting glaze can occu=
r
> when a shino glaze containing soda ash is used as a liner glaze in mugs,
> pitchers, jars, vases, and other enclosed forms, whether or not the same
> glaze is used on the outside of the piece. Shinos often go on quite
> thickly, and when the soluble soda ash is carried into the claybody durin=
g
> glazing, it all migrates to the outside of the pot during drying (because
> there is little air circulation on the inside). The result can be
> problematic because any residual soda ash left in the claybody can cause =
it
> to over-vitrify and shrink more than normal, while the shino liner glaze
> ends up containing very little soda ash, and thus will be slightly
> underfired, shrinking less than normal. The effect is enough to cause
> dunting during cooling or later on during use.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft
> Tennessee Tech University
> vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
>
>
Lou Raye Nichol on mon 18 jan 10
Larry,
Do you ever have any problems where the shino overlaps the liner? I have
had some rough edges doing this. If you don't have this problem, would you
mind letting us know what you use for a liner?
Lou Raye
Lou Raye Nichol
Carbon Trapped Porcelain
919-303-5848
www.louraye.com
pots@louraye.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Larry Kruzan
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 7:20 PM
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Cracking pots - a question
I love pot centered threads I get to learn from!!! So here's my question;
While I know there is nothing in any of the shinos I know about that would
be hazardous to our health (after fired that is), why use them as a liner?
Most are rough, a lot craze like crazy, they are covered with pinholes &
blisters and I would wonder about the liner being water/food tight if the
body is not fully vitrified.
I love shinos - on the outside but never use them inside. Or am I missing
something?
Larry Kruzan
Lost Creek Pottery
www.lostcreekpottery.com
****************************************************
One fairly common case involving an otherwise good-fitting glaze can occur
when a shino glaze containing soda ash is used as a liner glaze in mugs,
pitchers, jars, vases, and other enclosed forms, whether or not the same
glaze is used on the outside of the piece. Shinos often go on quite
thickly, and when the soluble soda ash is carried into the claybody during
glazing, it all migrates to the outside of the pot during drying (because
there is little air circulation on the inside). The result can be
problematic because any residual soda ash left in the claybody can cause it
to over-vitrify and shrink more than normal, while the shino liner glaze
ends up containing very little soda ash, and thus will be slightly
underfired, shrinking less than normal. The effect is enough to cause
dunting during cooling or later on during use.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Eva Gallagher on mon 18 jan 10
Hi,
That's why if I use a shino on the outside I also do the inside - so far I
have found that any shino on top of most glazes that would be used as liner=
s
will rough up and blister. Generally any semimatt/shiny glaze on top of
shino tends to get rough.
It's very hard to glaze the inside once you have glazed the outside without
getting a possible drip on the outside.
Eva Gallagher
Deep River, Ontario
http://stevenhilljourneyworkshopjuly2008.blogspot.com/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lou Raye Nichol"
To:
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: Cracking pots - a question
> Larry,
>
> Do you ever have any problems where the shino overlaps the liner? I have
> had some rough edges doing this. If you don't have this problem, would yo=
u
> mind letting us know what you use for a liner?
>
> Lou Raye
>
>
> Lou Raye Nichol
> Carbon Trapped Porcelain
> 919-303-5848
> www.louraye.com
> pots@louraye.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Larry Kruzan
> Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 7:20 PM
> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: Cracking pots - a question
>
> I love pot centered threads I get to learn from!!! So here's my question;
>
> While I know there is nothing in any of the shinos I know about that woul=
d
> be hazardous to our health (after fired that is), why use them as a liner=
?
> Most are rough, a lot craze like crazy, they are covered with pinholes &
> blisters and I would wonder about the liner being water/food tight if the
> body is not fully vitrified.
>
> I love shinos - on the outside but never use them inside. Or am I missing
> something?
>
> Larry Kruzan
> Lost Creek Pottery
> www.lostcreekpottery.com
>
>
>
> ****************************************************
> One fairly common case involving an otherwise good-fitting glaze can occu=
r
> when a shino glaze containing soda ash is used as a liner glaze in mugs,
> pitchers, jars, vases, and other enclosed forms, whether or not the same
> glaze is used on the outside of the piece. Shinos often go on quite
> thickly, and when the soluble soda ash is carried into the claybody durin=
g
> glazing, it all migrates to the outside of the pot during drying (because
> there is little air circulation on the inside). The result can be
> problematic because any residual soda ash left in the claybody can cause
> it
> to over-vitrify and shrink more than normal, while the shino liner glaze
> ends up containing very little soda ash, and thus will be slightly
> underfired, shrinking less than normal. The effect is enough to cause
> dunting during cooling or later on during use.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft
> Tennessee Tech University
> vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
>
>
Eva Gallagher on mon 18 jan 10
Thanks for the heads up - I've always wondered why the inside of cups never
got carbon trapping and usually are a very different colour - never thought
of the drying aspect.
Will have to do some testing as I tend to use shinos on the insides of cups
whenever I use some on the outside.
Eva Gallagher
Deep River, Ontario
http://stevenhilljourneyworkshopjuly2008.blogspot.com/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vince Pitelka"
To:
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: Cracking pots - a question
> Lou Raye Nichol wrote:
> In the discussion about cracking pots, someone said that putting a
> different
> glaze inside than outside might cause cracking because of diffential
> shrink
> rates. I want to line drinking vessels with a clear glaze and put Shaner=
s
> Oribe on
> the outside. Would there be any problem to mixing up the oribe with no
> copper?
>
> Hi Lou Raye -
> That would work fine, but it shouldn't be necessary if your glazes are
> well-fitted to your claybody. The only time that different glazes will
> cause a pot to crack are if there is a significant disagreement in
> expansion
> between them, or if the kiln is cooled/opened too quickly. I have been
> putting different glazes inside/outside on my most of coffee mugs for 40
> years, and have encountered cracking only very rarely.
>
> One fairly common case involving an otherwise good-fitting glaze can occu=
r
> when a shino glaze containing soda ash is used as a liner glaze in mugs,
> pitchers, jars, vases, and other enclosed forms, whether or not the same
> glaze is used on the outside of the piece. Shinos often go on quite
> thickly, and when the soluble soda ash is carried into the claybody durin=
g
> glazing, it all migrates to the outside of the pot during drying (because
> there is little air circulation on the inside). The result can be
> problematic because any residual soda ash left in the claybody can cause
> it
> to over-vitrify and shrink more than normal, while the shino liner glaze
> ends up containing very little soda ash, and thus will be slightly
> underfired, shrinking less than normal. The effect is enough to cause
> dunting during cooling or later on during use.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft
> Tennessee Tech University
> vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
>
>
Ron Roy on mon 18 jan 10
Hi Lou,
Send me the recipes and I'll calculate the expansions to see if there
will be a problem.
A crazing glaze will weaken pots but not break them - a glaze with the
opposite problem (low expansion and contraction) can break pots.
Combine a low expansion glaze on the inside and a crazing glaze on the
outside is the worst situation.
One of the best advantages a potter has is calculation because - among
other things - it gives some idea about expansion. Certainly the
warning is wonderful but the solution is found there as well.
RR
Quoting Lou Raye Nichol :
> In the discussion about cracking pots, someone said that putting a differ=
ent
> glaze inside than outside might cause cracking because of diffential shri=
nk
> rates.
>
> I want to line drinking vessels with a clear glaze and put Shaners Oribe =
on
> the outside. Would there be any problem to mixing up the oribe with no
> copper?
>
> Lou Raye
Lee Love on mon 18 jan 10
On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 8:00 PM, Paul Herman w=
=3D
rote:
> To get it thin enough, either water down the liner glaze, or splash
> some water on the inside of your bisque ware before pouring the
> inside. I usually do both. Shinos mostly all craze, but I am not
> really worried about that. Sometimes if you get them really thin there
> is no crazing, because they take up silica from the body (I think.)
>
> When I want a nice rosy shino liner, I use Dresang shino, or gold
> shino, thin. And do it on a light colored body.
>
Paul, another way to do it is to put the shino on with a brush right
after you trim the pot, leather hard.
For many of my shigaraki clay type pots, that are unglazed on
the outside, I hakame shino on the inside and on the inside of the
foot.
--
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D97tha=
t is, "T=3D
he
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Lee Love on mon 18 jan 10
On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 6:30 PM, Linda Goodson
wrote:
> The pots that I saw that shattered did indeed have a significant
> difference in there expansion rates.
>
> I enjoy this topic of glaze fit and hope to learn more from you all!
Originally, shino had no soda ash in it. My mainstay does not. So
it is misleading to assume all shinos have soda ash in them. Also,
the ones that do have soda ash vary in the amount they use.
Unlike carbon trap glazes, they are very similar to soluables in wood
ash glazes.
--
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D97tha=
t is, "T=3D
he
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Lee Love on mon 18 jan 10
Here is a photo of my mino shino with no soda ash. Wood fired:
http://claycraft.blogspot.com/2010/01/mino-shino.html
--
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D97tha=
t is, "T=3D
he
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Lee Love on mon 18 jan 10
On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 9:36 AM, Lou Raye Nichol
wrote:
> Larry,
>
> Do you ever have any problems where the shino overlaps the liner? =3DA0I =
ha=3D
ve
> had some rough edges doing this. If you don't have this problem, would yo=
=3D
u
> mind letting us know what you use for a liner?
>
Lou, Carbon trap glazes and tradtional or low soda ash shinos behave
very differently.
--
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D97tha=
t is, "T=3D
he
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
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