gary navarre on thu 21 jan 10
Hay Nori, Folks,=3D0A=3D0A My Dad Walter worked as a time study specialist =
for =3D
Ford and I had no idea how important his skills were in costing out a job s=
=3D
o both the worker and employer made a profit. It wasn't until I saw a man w=
=3D
ith a stop watch watching my mill and drill Chevy engine manifolds that I k=
=3D
new what his job involved. So the first thing to know is how many of these =
=3D
pieces can you produce in an hour. Then multiply the number pieces per hour=
=3D
by the wholesale price per piece to figure out the minimum value of the wo=
=3D
rk and how much you are making an hour. I didn't include any other processe=
=3D
s like glazing because this was a rough test for a small hand made bead lik=
=3D
e form. I could make 36 an hour and pit fire, selling wholesale for a buck =
=3D
each on about 20g. of clay. Then show the person how to make the pieces and=
=3D
give them a 50% handicap due to inexperience. When they have made enough w=
=3D
ork to equal the value of the debit you call it good. =3D0A=3D0A Now I take=
the=3D
disc of clay left on the bat after cutting a pot off and make a bead, a wi=
=3D
nd chime clapper, or American kiseru I can sell for a few bucks and call it=
=3D
good. These I can even low fire in the a campfire or the pignose and proba=
=3D
bly get 3-6 bucks retail now-a-days, maybe more because I haven't sold any =
=3D
for years and don't know what the market will bare. The point being though =
=3D
is how I figured out how much money I can make piece rate in an hour. If I =
=3D
could train someone to do these pieces I'd give them $.50-.75 each so they =
=3D
could make minimum wage or maybe $10 an hour, however the math works out, a=
=3D
nd I still make my profit. That's how capitalism works don't it? =3D0A=3D0A=
Oh,=3D
and don't loan money to friends who might not pay you back unless you can =
=3D
live without it and helping the friend is more rewarding than what the mone=
=3D
y could give you. =3D0A =3D0AGary Navarre=3D0ANavarre Pottery=3D0ANavarre E=
nterpris=3D
es=3D0ANorway, Michigan, USA=3D0Ahttp://www.youtube.com/GindaUP=3D0Ahttp://=
public=3D
.fotki.com/GindaUP/=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A--- On Thu, 1/21/10, nori LINK.N=3D
ET> wrote:=3D0A=3D0A> From: nori =3D0A> Subject: [C=
layart=3D
] piece work=3D0A> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=3D0A> Date: Thursday, Janua=
ry 2=3D
1, 2010, 3:11 PM=3D0A> hi, everyone.=3D0A> =3D0A> i have a lovely friend wh=
o owes=3D
me some money.=3D0A> =3D0A> problem:=3DA0 she can't pay me back.=3D0A> =3D=
0A> but - =3D
she has time!=3D0A> =3D0A> so, i was thinking that she could help out some =
in t=3D
he=3D0A> studio.=3D0A> =3D0A> she doesn't have a lot of clay experience, so=
she'l=3D
l be=3D0A> working on=3D0A> small, flat pieces cut out from slabs.=3D0A> =
=3D0A> and=3D
she's interested in clay, so she'll be spending some=3D0A> time watching=
=3D0A>=3D
me throw & learning stuff that isn't applicable to the=3D0A> work she's do=
in=3D
g=3D0A> for me.=3D0A> =3D0A> the challenge is that we don't know how much w=
ork sh=3D
ould=3D0A> equal how much=3D0A> debt payoff.=3D0A> =3D0A> does anyone have =
experien=3D
ce in costing out piece=3D0A> work?=3DA0 maybe as a=3D0A> percent of the re=
tail p=3D
rice?=3D0A> =3D0A> we thought this might be one way to go about it.=3D0A> =
=3D0A> th=3D
anks in advance!=3D0A> --=3D0A> =3D0A> =3D0A> Clifton, Norwich & Sabra=3D0=
A>=3D0A=3D0A=3D
=3D0A
nori on thu 21 jan 10
hi, everyone.
i have a lovely friend who owes me some money.
problem: she can't pay me back.
but - she has time!
so, i was thinking that she could help out some in the studio.
she doesn't have a lot of clay experience, so she'll be working on
small, flat pieces cut out from slabs.
and she's interested in clay, so she'll be spending some time watching
me throw & learning stuff that isn't applicable to the work she's doing
for me.
the challenge is that we don't know how much work should equal how much
debt payoff.
does anyone have experience in costing out piece work? maybe as a
percent of the retail price?
we thought this might be one way to go about it.
thanks in advance!
--
Clifton, Norwich & Sabra
My pottery cat clay
Our studio crocus clay works
Our charity A little effort + no money =3D a big difference!
Sample Soap
Larry Kruzan on fri 22 jan 10
Hay Nori, Folks,
****************
Oh, and don't loan money to friends who might not pay you back unless you
can live without it and helping the friend is more rewarding than what the
money could give you.
Gary Navarre
**************************
Hi Nori and others,
If this person is a friend that you want to keep this might be a good
exercise but don't raise your hopes. Most likely they will work for a while=
,
then they begin to consider themselves used, then taken advantage of, this
will be followed by a argument and a parting of ways with both upset and
mad.
If you told us how much is involved, I missed it, but if this is a real goo=
d
friend and you can afford the loss, call her over and tell her how importan=
t
your relationship is to you and to just forget about how much she owes. You
may just build an even stronger bond between you two, one that would permit
her to help you if you need it in the future.
When I have a friend in need I just give what I can afford to give, tell
them to help someone else along life's road and I FORGET about it. Never
drag it out again. Consider it the price of that friendship. If the
friendship is not worth what they ask from you, then you have established
just how good a friend that one is.
Money destroys more marriages than anything else including infidelity.
Friendships are not tracked but I doubt it is statically better.
I have mentioned before that I am a old soldier but I've never said what I
did in the Army. I was a Chaplin. I cannot tell you how many times I had tw=
o
friends sitting across my desk physically fighting over a few dollars. If w=
e
forced the payback - and we could - the riff between the two never healed
but if I could convince them that forgiveness was a better route they becam=
e
much closer friends. It is also the hardest route for both because one must
surrender what was given, the other must accept what they cannot pay back.
Charity (or love) is a very hard thing to accept or give if payback is
expected.
Just some thoughts,
Larry Kruzan
Lost Creek Pottery
www.lostcreekpottery.com
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John Rodgers on fri 22 jan 10
Years ago when I had a production studio in Alaska - I undertook a
massive time study and cost analysis of our entire production to get a
grip on real costs. I first did an analysis of all the steps in
production and made a list. Then, using a stop watch, I timed each step
in the process. I looked at the amount of material used on each piece of
work, how much scrape, both recoverable an not, time to reclaims, etc.
When I was done, I had sufficient data to fill like 8 big pages in a
spread sheet book. When I finished this project, and then looked a cost
vs contribution- I eliminated all items that made less than 0.5%
contribution to the gross income. The margin was so small as not to be
worth making. Ironically, there were a great many pieces that people -
particularly tourists - liked, but we could not make any money on them.
The work that was done in my shop was production - we reproduced pieces
over and over and over again. So this business of getting a handle on
the cost per piece was crucial. But for making of a studio full of one
and two and three of a kind - it still gets down to how many, how much
material, how much time. Again, tracking tme and materials is crucial,
even if you just jot down a note or two about each stage of any given piece=
.
John Rodgers
Clayartist and Moldmaker
88'GL VW Bus Driver
Chelsea, AL
Http://www.moldhaus.com
nori wrote:
> hi, everyone.
>
> i have a lovely friend who owes me some money.
>
> problem: she can't pay me back.
>
> but - she has time!
>
> so, i was thinking that she could help out some in the studio.
>
> she doesn't have a lot of clay experience, so she'll be working on
> small, flat pieces cut out from slabs.
>
> and she's interested in clay, so she'll be spending some time watching
> me throw & learning stuff that isn't applicable to the work she's doing
> for me.
>
> the challenge is that we don't know how much work should equal how much
> debt payoff.
>
> does anyone have experience in costing out piece work? maybe as a
> percent of the retail price?
>
> we thought this might be one way to go about it.
>
> thanks in advance!
> --
>
>
> Clifton, Norwich & Sabra
>
>
>
> My pottery cat clay
>
>
>
> Our studio crocus clay works
>
>
>
> Our charity A little effort + no money =3D a big difference!
> Sample Soap
>
>
nori on sun 31 jan 10
Hi, again, everyone.
thanks to everyone for their great input on loaning my friend money.
i've been lucky.... in over 30 years of loans to friends, i've only
been stiffed once. guess she wasn't a friend?
all the others have paid me back.... either in cash or doing work around
the house.
this is the first time i've had someone do clay work.
so far, it's working out great. she really wants to learn about clay &
i have some easy work that drives me batty.
we still don't know how we'll cost out her production. she's still
learning, is slow, etc.
so, we'll just keep track of production and hours & figure out, after a
while, what makes sense for both of us.
thanks again for all the advice.
--
Clifton, Norwich & Sabra
My pottery cat clay
Our studio crocus clay works
Our charity A little effort + no money =3D a big difference!
Sample Soap
Vince Pitelka on mon 1 feb 10
Nori wrote:
"Thanks to everyone for their great input on loaning my friend money. I've
been lucky.... in over 30 years of loans to friends, I've only been stiffe=
d
once. Guess she wasn't a friend?
I think it might have been George Carlin who said "If you loan a friend
fifty bucks and you never see him again, it was probably worth it."
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Powdermill Pottery on wed 26 jan 11
Hello,
I was wondering how many of you use piece work potters to help in
production? Also looking for some guidance on how to pay them, Any help
would be appreciated.
Jeff
Jeff Brown on thu 27 jan 11
I have worked for over a dozen different potters and/or factories in the =
=3D
last=3D20
30 years.
Piece work can be based on a percentage of your wholesale/retail price, o=
=3D
r as=3D20
here in Seagrove, by the pound...or at a prearranged price for specialty =
=3D
work.
I have been payed anywhere from 10 to 20 percent of wholesale or 10=3D20
percent of retail...this is only good if the company you work for is sell=
=3D
ing pots=3D20
at a decent price that refects the work that goes into the pottery.
The going rate in this area ranges from $1.00 - 1.50 per pound depending =
=3D
on=3D20
who you work for, or the complexity of the form...this price is for throw=
=3D
ing=3D20
only...no handles or trimming.
A few pottery factories, sparsely located around the country, will set an=
=3D
=3D20
Hourly rate, and offer benifits.
I have only payed to have pots made a few times and did pay well, because=
=3D
=3D20
as they say..."You Get What You Pay For!".
Thank you,
Jeff Brown
1423 Pottery Highway 705
Seagrove, NC 27341
http://www.jeffbrownpottery.com
On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 09:22:48 -0500, Powdermill Pottery=3D20
wrote:
>Hello,
>
>
>
>I was wondering how many of you use piece work potters to help in
>production? Also looking for some guidance on how to pay them, Any hel=
=3D
p
>would be appreciated.
>
>
>
>Jeff
penni stoddart on fri 28 jan 11
As I gear up my business I have been talking about paying my 16 year old
daughter to do piece work for me. Not quite the same thing you are talking
about but it is still piece work. She is going to make the hand-built
stamped or cut out necklace pendants for me as well as glaze and string
them. We haven't worked out a price yet but it is on the "to do" list. My
plan is to pay her per piece she completes and then a going rate for workin=
g
with me at events.
Main reason for me is that I do 1812 living history events (we re-enact the
war of 1812) and I need her at events to help set up our big canvas tent an=
d
fly so she can't have an outside part time job that requires her to work
weekends. This solves her problem of wanting to earn money and mine of time
to make production work and having an extra body to help me at events.
=3Do) =3Do) =3Do) =3Do) =3Do) =3Do)
Penni Stoddart
London, Ont
Penelope's Pots
www.penelopepots.ca
No well behaved woman ever made history
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste good
with ketchup
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Powdermill
Pottery
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 9:23 AM
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Piece work
Hello,
I was wondering how many of you use piece work potters to help in
production? Also looking for some guidance on how to pay them, Any help
would be appreciated.
Jeff
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