Michael Wendt on wed 17 mar 10
J,
I just added a pre-filter, a deep "V" bag filter and an
electrostatic precipitator to the air inlet of the furnace.
the result is amazing...
air so clean you can breathe it.
It costs way less than the HEPA filter unit which will kill
you in filter costs.
Regards,
Michael Wendt
J Motzkin on wed 17 mar 10
I am consulting with a local art center about setting up a clay studio.
Among the things that was recommended to them was a ceiling mounted HEPA ai=
r
filter (at $1400, plus $250 installation).
It is my fear that a ceiling mounted filtering system will keep fine silica
particles suspended and moving about.
Does anyone have a constructive alternative that I might suggest to them?
Any thoughts, specific, scientific, or general, much appreciated. If this
filter is a good idea, I am happy to retreat.
Thanks.
J
--
judy motzkin studio
7 tufts street Cambridge MA
www.motzkin.com
www.spiritkeeper-urns.com
617-547-5513
http://motzkinchina.blogspot.com
http://www.breadbakers.blogspot.com
Marcia Selsor on wed 17 mar 10
When the ceramics studio was relocated in Montana State in Billings, =3D
some enigneers had an exhaust system that drew the dust from the clay =3D
mixing area into a long duct about 18 inches off the floor. Drawing dust =
=3D
up only helps to circulate it. That was their idea anyway.
Marcia
On Mar 17, 2010, at 7:07 PM, J Motzkin wrote:
> I am consulting with a local art center about setting up a clay =3D
studio.
>=3D20
> Among the things that was recommended to them was a ceiling mounted =3D
HEPA air
> filter (at $1400, plus $250 installation).
>=3D20
> It is my fear that a ceiling mounted filtering system will keep fine =3D
silica
> particles suspended and moving about.
>=3D20
> Does anyone have a constructive alternative that I might suggest to =3D
them?
> Any thoughts, specific, scientific, or general, much appreciated. If =3D
this
> filter is a good idea, I am happy to retreat.
>=3D20
> Thanks.
>=3D20
> J
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
> --
> judy motzkin studio
> 7 tufts street Cambridge MA
> www.motzkin.com
> www.spiritkeeper-urns.com
> 617-547-5513
> http://motzkinchina.blogspot.com
> http://www.breadbakers.blogspot.com
>=3D20
Marcia Selsor
http://www.marciaselsor.com
Steve Mills on thu 18 mar 10
I think your instinct is right; anything that is likely to promote
continuous air movement in a clay workshop is to be avoided, particularly i=
n
an educational environment.
The problem is that much less than 50% of airborne dust is visible to the
naked eye.
I think you need to contact Monona Rossol (perhaps via Clay Times) and get
some backup on this.
Steve M
On 18 March 2010 00:07, J Motzkin wrote:
> I am consulting with a local art center about setting up a clay studio.
>
> Among the things that was recommended to them was a ceiling mounted HEPA
> air
> filter (at $1400, plus $250 installation).
>
> It is my fear that a ceiling mounted filtering system will keep fine sili=
ca
> particles suspended and moving about.
>
> Does anyone have a constructive alternative that I might suggest to them?
> Any thoughts, specific, scientific, or general, much appreciated. If this
> filter is a good idea, I am happy to retreat.
>
> Thanks.
>
> J
>
>
>
>
> --
> judy motzkin studio
> 7 tufts street Cambridge MA
> www.motzkin.com
> www.spiritkeeper-urns.com
> 617-547-5513
> http://motzkinchina.blogspot.com
> http://www.breadbakers.blogspot.com
>
--
Steve
Bath
UK
www.mudslinger.me.uk
Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional!
jonathan byler on thu 18 mar 10
if you don't make dust in the first place, ie. keep the place clean
and forbid sanding of dry work, this ought not to be a problem. also
stainless steel table tops instead of the canvas ones people often use
means less places for dust to accumulate. the hepa filter ought to be
removing the fine silica from the air. that is the point. a lot of
times the air is getting stirred up anyway from the HVAC system
blowing air into the room.
the hepa ought to work *IF* it is maintained and the filter changed on
schedule. that is what they do. but as steve said, talking to an
industrial hygienist who is familiar with the clay industry ought to
be consulted if this is going to be a public work space and you are
going to be dealing with students and employees.
On Mar 18, 2010, at 6:03 AM, Steve Mills wrote:
> I think your instinct is right; anything that is likely to promote
> continuous air movement in a clay workshop is to be avoided,
> particularly in
> an educational environment.
> The problem is that much less than 50% of airborne dust is visible
> to the
> naked eye.
>
> I think you need to contact Monona Rossol (perhaps via Clay Times)
> and get
> some backup on this.
>
> Steve M
>
>
>
>
> On 18 March 2010 00:07, J Motzkin wrote:
>
>> I am consulting with a local art center about setting up a clay
>> studio.
>>
>> Among the things that was recommended to them was a ceiling mounted
>> HEPA
>> air
>> filter (at $1400, plus $250 installation).
>>
>> It is my fear that a ceiling mounted filtering system will keep
>> fine silica
>> particles suspended and moving about.
>>
>> Does anyone have a constructive alternative that I might suggest to
>> them?
>> Any thoughts, specific, scientific, or general, much appreciated.
>> If this
>> filter is a good idea, I am happy to retreat.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> J
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> judy motzkin studio
>> 7 tufts street Cambridge MA
>> www.motzkin.com
>> www.spiritkeeper-urns.com
>> 617-547-5513
>> http://motzkinchina.blogspot.com
>> http://www.breadbakers.blogspot.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Steve
> Bath
> UK
> www.mudslinger.me.uk
>
> Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional!
Glistering Phaeton on thu 18 mar 10
Dear Judy,
Everything I've learned about the dangers of silica dust is from this list,
so bearing that in mind...
Is this HEPA filter blowing the air back into the room after it's been
cleaned? If so, why? I would think the best way to vent a workplace is to
the outside (which is why I keep reading "remember to do this outside"
whenever advice is given here). It seems that since this dust always float=
s
invisibly in the air, that pulling it up away from people is a good idea.
And it would be a heck of a lot cheaper to vent it outside unfiltered then
to HEPA-filter it and blow it back into the room. Blowing dust around woul=
d
never be a good idea.
If I have this all wrong, please correct!
[On a side note, can someone tell me if the dangerous fine dust that causes
silicosis is actually so light that it remains suspended, or does it
eventually settle? The way it's dealt with would greatly depend on which i=
s
true. Or does all silica dust cause silicosis?]
-Adam
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of jonathan byler
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 8:33 AM
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Ceiling mounted HEPA filter in classroom clay studio?
if you don't make dust in the first place, ie. keep the place clean and
forbid sanding of dry work, this ought not to be a problem. also stainless
steel table tops instead of the canvas ones people often use means less
places for dust to accumulate. the hepa filter ought to be removing the
fine silica from the air. that is the point. a lot of times the air is
getting stirred up anyway from the HVAC system blowing air into the room.
the hepa ought to work *IF* it is maintained and the filter changed on
schedule. that is what they do. but as steve said, talking to an
industrial hygienist who is familiar with the clay industry ought to be
consulted if this is going to be a public work space and you are going to b=
e
dealing with students and employees.
On Mar 18, 2010, at 6:03 AM, Steve Mills wrote:
> I think your instinct is right; anything that is likely to promote
> continuous air movement in a clay workshop is to be avoided,
> particularly in an educational environment.
> The problem is that much less than 50% of airborne dust is visible to
> the naked eye.
>
> I think you need to contact Monona Rossol (perhaps via Clay Times) and
> get some backup on this.
>
> Steve M
>
>
>
>
> On 18 March 2010 00:07, J Motzkin wrote:
>
>> I am consulting with a local art center about setting up a clay
>> studio.
>>
>> Among the things that was recommended to them was a ceiling mounted
>> HEPA air filter (at $1400, plus $250 installation).
>>
>> It is my fear that a ceiling mounted filtering system will keep fine
>> silica particles suspended and moving about.
>>
>> Does anyone have a constructive alternative that I might suggest to
>> them?
>> Any thoughts, specific, scientific, or general, much appreciated.
>> If this
>> filter is a good idea, I am happy to retreat.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> J
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> judy motzkin studio
>> 7 tufts street Cambridge MA
>> www.motzkin.com
>> www.spiritkeeper-urns.com
>> 617-547-5513
>> http://motzkinchina.blogspot.com
>> http://www.breadbakers.blogspot.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Steve
> Bath
> UK
> www.mudslinger.me.uk
>
> Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional!
Ron Roy on thu 18 mar 10
Hi Michael,
How much ozone does the electronic cleaner produce? - some are more of
a heath hazard than others.
RR
Quoting Michael Wendt :
> J,
> I just added a pre-filter, a deep "V" bag filter and an
> electrostatic precipitator to the air inlet of the furnace.
> the result is amazing...
> air so clean you can breathe it.
> It costs way less than the HEPA filter unit which will kill
> you in filter costs.
> Regards,
> Michael Wendt
>
jonathan byler on thu 18 mar 10
it is not cheaper to vent it outside when you are paying the heat and
air conditioning bill. for some places this is not an issue. for
anywhere north of south carolina in winter the cost would be huge.
On Mar 18, 2010, at 12:21 PM, Glistering Phaeton wrote:
> Dear Judy,
>
> Everything I've learned about the dangers of silica dust is from
> this list,
> so bearing that in mind...
>
> Is this HEPA filter blowing the air back into the room after it's been
> cleaned? If so, why? I would think the best way to vent a
> workplace is to
> the outside (which is why I keep reading "remember to do this outside"
> whenever advice is given here). It seems that since this dust
> always floats
> invisibly in the air, that pulling it up away from people is a good
> idea.
> And it would be a heck of a lot cheaper to vent it outside
> unfiltered then
> to HEPA-filter it and blow it back into the room. Blowing dust
> around would
> never be a good idea.
>
> If I have this all wrong, please correct!
>
> [On a side note, can someone tell me if the dangerous fine dust that
> causes
> silicosis is actually so light that it remains suspended, or does it
> eventually settle? The way it's dealt with would greatly depend on
> which is
> true. Or does all silica dust cause silicosis?]
>
> -Adam
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of
> jonathan byler
> Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 8:33 AM
> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: Ceiling mounted HEPA filter in classroom clay studio?
>
> if you don't make dust in the first place, ie. keep the place clean
> and
> forbid sanding of dry work, this ought not to be a problem. also
> stainless
> steel table tops instead of the canvas ones people often use means
> less
> places for dust to accumulate. the hepa filter ought to be removing
> the
> fine silica from the air. that is the point. a lot of times the
> air is
> getting stirred up anyway from the HVAC system blowing air into the
> room.
>
> the hepa ought to work *IF* it is maintained and the filter changed on
> schedule. that is what they do. but as steve said, talking to an
> industrial hygienist who is familiar with the clay industry ought to
> be
> consulted if this is going to be a public work space and you are
> going to be
> dealing with students and employees.
>
> On Mar 18, 2010, at 6:03 AM, Steve Mills wrote:
>
>> I think your instinct is right; anything that is likely to promote
>> continuous air movement in a clay workshop is to be avoided,
>> particularly in an educational environment.
>> The problem is that much less than 50% of airborne dust is visible to
>> the naked eye.
>>
>> I think you need to contact Monona Rossol (perhaps via Clay Times)
>> and
>> get some backup on this.
>>
>> Steve M
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 18 March 2010 00:07, J Motzkin wrote:
>>
>>> I am consulting with a local art center about setting up a clay
>>> studio.
>>>
>>> Among the things that was recommended to them was a ceiling mounted
>>> HEPA air filter (at $1400, plus $250 installation).
>>>
>>> It is my fear that a ceiling mounted filtering system will keep fine
>>> silica particles suspended and moving about.
>>>
>>> Does anyone have a constructive alternative that I might suggest to
>>> them?
>>> Any thoughts, specific, scientific, or general, much appreciated.
>>> If this
>>> filter is a good idea, I am happy to retreat.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> J
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> judy motzkin studio
>>> 7 tufts street Cambridge MA
>>> www.motzkin.com
>>> www.spiritkeeper-urns.com
>>> 617-547-5513
>>> http://motzkinchina.blogspot.com
>>> http://www.breadbakers.blogspot.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Steve
>> Bath
>> UK
>> www.mudslinger.me.uk
>>
>> Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional!
James Freeman on thu 18 mar 10
Adam, et al...
The problem with venting dust to the outdoors is that you are also
venting your heat or AC to the outdoors, which will become very
expensive.
I can't speak to clay dust, but I do have a ceiling mounted fine
particle filter in my wood shop. It is the type that Michael Wendt
described, a bag-type "operating room" filter with a standard
pre-filter, not a HEPA. When I raise a cloud of fine dust in the air,
I can turn on the filter, go upstairs for a cup of caffeine, and when
I go back to the shop the air is completely clear. It does not keep
dust in suspension, as it turns over the room air so frequently that
all of the dust is removed. If I do not turn on the filter, and just
leave the room, the fine dust eventually settles out on every surface.
Not so when the filter is running.
For whatever it's worth.
...James
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I
should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Glistering Phaeton
wrote:
> Dear Judy,
>
> Everything I've learned about the dangers of silica dust is from this lis=
=3D
t,
> so bearing that in mind...
>
> Is this HEPA filter blowing the air back into the room after it's been
> cleaned? =3DA0If so, why? =3DA0I would think the best way to vent a workp=
lace=3D
is to
> the outside (which is why I keep reading "remember to do this outside"
> whenever advice is given here). =3DA0It seems that since this dust always=
f=3D
loats
> invisibly in the air, that pulling it up away from people is a good idea.
> And it would be a heck of a lot cheaper to vent it outside unfiltered the=
=3D
n
> to HEPA-filter it and blow it back into the room. =3DA0Blowing dust aroun=
d =3D
would
> never be a good idea.
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