Kelly Savino on sat 20 mar 10
Reading over the conversation in all its wanderings, I tripped over a few m=
entions of the school day being too short to be effective.
Just popping in to differ.
I have to believe that creativity, imagination, critical thinking skills, a=
healthy sense of self, and the gift of an inquisitive mind are a product o=
f -- ready?
Boredom.
Unscheduled, unmonitored, "unproductive" time in which a kid has the leisur=
e to do nothing at all, or not much, free of oversight, goals and assignmen=
ts, clocks and rituals, and adults talking at him/her about some second of =
third hand concept.
Between school day and homework, sports and extracurriculars, tv and comput=
er, how much time do you suppose kids have to be bored, and find their own =
amusements? Anybody remember lying in the grass looking at cloud shapes? Fi=
shing or netting little creek critters? Building a treehouse, flying a kite=
, inventing some silly club with your friends? Ever clean up or decorate yo=
ur bike? Collect or trade stuff? Dig for treasure? Play kid games until you=
got called in at dark? Remember sandboxes, the real kind with ants and the=
occasional cat poop?
Ever see kids do that stuff anymore?
School isn't a bad place, and there are some rockin' teachers out there. Me=
, I forgot to send my kids to school at all for the first decade or so, but=
as teens (and with our job loss and scramble) they are all in school now a=
nd having a marvelous experience. They had a good hands-on start and are cr=
eative, respectful, funny and marvelous kids.
The geology lesson with no rocks is not an anomaly. Teaching kids by talkin=
g at them and filling their heads with prepackaged knowledge can kill the s=
pirit of inquiry pretty quickly -- and is an artifact of life before the in=
formation age. Much of it will be outdated or irrelevant by the time kids a=
re out of school anyway. It's more important to know what the questions are=
; anybody can google up the answers. We want Americans like the old school =
inventors, thinkers, writers, innovators -- we don't get that by teaching k=
ids to follow directions for the carrot and stick.
Kids need boredom to solve on their own, and the freedom to explore -- with=
mess, paint, clay, sticks, paper, fire, dough, water, earth, whatever come=
s to hand... to assemble junk into sculpture, learn to whittle, invent weap=
ons, use tools. If that sounds too bucolic, consider that kids without supe=
rvision downtown address boredom by stealing a spray paint can and covering=
a train car or alley wall with artwork.
My opinion: "kids these days" (she says in her crotchety voice) are oversch=
eduled, oversupervised, over catered-to, over waited on and bought-for. Kid=
s are not sent outside often enough with instructions to go play until dinn=
er, are not deprived of ipod/wii/laptop/tv often enough, and are taught to =
spend their energy on specific goals prescribed by someone else.
I have corresponded since 1984 with an astrophysicist who was my prof at Oh=
io State. He once explained to me that it's a false dichotomy to separate "=
arty" and creative people from serious scientists; that the greatest minds =
of science were the ones who were able to make a leap -- and imagine someth=
ing that had not yet been considered. While some were busy mapping and meas=
uring the flat world, a light bulb went on that said, "or maybe round?" Di=
scovery, invention, innovative ways of thinking: that's what freedom, bored=
om and unstructured time can provide for a kid (or an adult.) More hours o=
f school (or year round school) won't move us back in the direction of bein=
g that country full of innovators, quirky inventors, risk takers and enterp=
reneurs.
Just sayin'.
Yours
Kelly in Ohio, up way too late planting seven kinds of eggplant seeds in fl=
ats.
http://www.primalpotter.com (website)
http://primalmommy.wordpress.com (blog)
http://www.primalpotter.etsy.com (store)
Marcia Selsor on sat 20 mar 10
Great summation Kelly. I remember doing many of the things you =3D
mentioned. Good perspective .
Marcia
On Mar 20, 2010, at 2:43 AM, Kelly Savino wrote:
> Reading over the conversation in all its wanderings, I tripped over a =3D
few mentions of the school day being too short to be effective.
>=3D20
> Just popping in to differ.
>=3D20
> I have to believe that creativity, imagination, critical thinking =3D
skills, a healthy sense of self, and the gift of an inquisitive mind are =
=3D
a product of -- ready?
>=3D20
> Boredom.
>=3D20
> Unscheduled, unmonitored, "unproductive" time in which a kid has the =3D
leisure to do nothing at all, or not much, free of oversight, goals and =3D
assignments, clocks and rituals, and adults talking at him/her about =3D
some second of third hand concept.
>=3D20
> Between school day and homework, sports and extracurriculars, tv and =3D
computer, how much time do you suppose kids have to be bored, and find =3D
their own amusements? Anybody remember lying in the grass looking at =3D
cloud shapes? Fishing or netting little creek critters? Building a =3D
treehouse, flying a kite, inventing some silly club with your friends? =3D
Ever clean up or decorate your bike? Collect or trade stuff? Dig for =3D
treasure? Play kid games until you got called in at dark? Remember =3D
sandboxes, the real kind with ants and the occasional cat poop?
>=3D20
> Ever see kids do that stuff anymore?
>=3D20
> School isn't a bad place, and there are some rockin' teachers out =3D
there. Me, I forgot to send my kids to school at all for the first =3D
decade or so, but as teens (and with our job loss and scramble) they are =
=3D
all in school now and having a marvelous experience. They had a good =3D
hands-on start and are creative, respectful, funny and marvelous kids.
>=3D20
> The geology lesson with no rocks is not an anomaly. Teaching kids by =3D
talking at them and filling their heads with prepackaged knowledge can =3D
kill the spirit of inquiry pretty quickly -- and is an artifact of life =3D
before the information age. Much of it will be outdated or irrelevant by =
=3D
the time kids are out of school anyway. It's more important to know what =
=3D
the questions are; anybody can google up the answers. We want Americans =3D
like the old school inventors, thinkers, writers, innovators -- we don't =
=3D
get that by teaching kids to follow directions for the carrot and stick.
>=3D20
> Kids need boredom to solve on their own, and the freedom to explore -- =
=3D
with mess, paint, clay, sticks, paper, fire, dough, water, earth, =3D
whatever comes to hand... to assemble junk into sculpture, learn to =3D
whittle, invent weapons, use tools. If that sounds too bucolic, consider =
=3D
that kids without supervision downtown address boredom by stealing a =3D
spray paint can and covering a train car or alley wall with artwork.
>=3D20
> My opinion: "kids these days" (she says in her crotchety voice) are =3D
overscheduled, oversupervised, over catered-to, over waited on and =3D
bought-for. Kids are not sent outside often enough with instructions to =3D
go play until dinner, are not deprived of ipod/wii/laptop/tv often =3D
enough, and are taught to spend their energy on specific goals =3D
prescribed by someone else.
>=3D20
> I have corresponded since 1984 with an astrophysicist who was my prof =3D
at Ohio State. He once explained to me that it's a false dichotomy to =3D
separate "arty" and creative people from serious scientists; that the =3D
greatest minds of science were the ones who were able to make a leap -- =3D
and imagine something that had not yet been considered. While some were =3D
busy mapping and measuring the flat world, a light bulb went on that =3D
said, "or maybe round?" Discovery, invention, innovative ways of =3D
thinking: that's what freedom, boredom and unstructured time can provide =
=3D
for a kid (or an adult.) More hours of school (or year round school) =3D
won't move us back in the direction of being that country full of =3D
innovators, quirky inventors, risk takers and enterpreneurs.
>=3D20
> Just sayin'.
>=3D20
> Yours
> Kelly in Ohio, up way too late planting seven kinds of eggplant seeds =3D
in flats.
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
> http://www.primalpotter.com (website)
> http://primalmommy.wordpress.com (blog)
> http://www.primalpotter.etsy.com (store)
>=3D20
Marcia Selsor
http://www.marciaselsor.com
Carol Casey on sat 20 mar 10
Kelly,
This conversation is very rich . . . and I couldn't agree more about kids
and overscheduling. While it's true that children never grow up in the same
world as their parents, especially in a media-saturated and fast-moving
society, being human hasn't changed and giving kids room to become fully
human is the one thing that should remain the same.
I think people are sort of overtaken by events and accept that this is how
life is: run, run, run. Buy, buy, buy. Surely the media contributes to this=
:
"don't leave your children to their own devices for who knows what evil
lurks." And being brought up to believe that to be human is to consume.(We
"consumers" are excoriated for not buying enough and letting our economy
fail. Anything wrong with that picture?) What a failed idea that leads to
more consumption, trying to fill an imagined, created emptiness. If, as you
say, we let kids have time to do nothing within the context of loving
parents or at least adults who love those kids for who they are and who the=
y
are becoming, they won't need to fill themselves up: they will be fulfilled=
.
So glad you popped in.
Carol
Canary Court
On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 3:43 AM, Kelly Savino
wrote:
> Reading over the conversation in all its wanderings, I tripped over a few
> mentions of the school day being too short to be effective.
>
> Just popping in to differ.
>
> I have to believe that creativity, imagination, critical thinking skills,=
a
> healthy sense of self, and the gift of an inquisitive mind are a product =
of
> -- ready?
>
> Boredom.
>
> Unscheduled, unmonitored, "unproductive" time in which a kid has the
> leisure to do nothing at all, or not much, free of oversight, goals and
> assignments, clocks and rituals, and adults talking at him/her about some
> second of third hand concept.
>
> Between school day and homework, sports and extracurriculars, tv and
> computer, how much time do you suppose kids have to be bored, and find th=
eir
> own amusements? Anybody remember lying in the grass looking at cloud shap=
es?
> Fishing or netting little creek critters? Building a treehouse, flying a
> kite, inventing some silly club with your friends? Ever clean up or decor=
ate
> your bike? Collect or trade stuff? Dig for treasure? Play kid games until
> you got called in at dark? Remember sandboxes, the real kind with ants an=
d
> the occasional cat poop?
>
> Ever see kids do that stuff anymore?
>
> School isn't a bad place, and there are some rockin' teachers out there.
> Me, I forgot to send my kids to school at all for the first decade or so,
> but as teens (and with our job loss and scramble) they are all in school =
now
> and having a marvelous experience. They had a good hands-on start and are
> creative, respectful, funny and marvelous kids.
>
> The geology lesson with no rocks is not an anomaly. Teaching kids by
> talking at them and filling their heads with prepackaged knowledge can ki=
ll
> the spirit of inquiry pretty quickly -- and is an artifact of life before
> the information age. Much of it will be outdated or irrelevant by the tim=
e
> kids are out of school anyway. It's more important to know what the
> questions are; anybody can google up the answers. We want Americans like =
the
> old school inventors, thinkers, writers, innovators -- we don't get that =
by
> teaching kids to follow directions for the carrot and stick.
>
> Kids need boredom to solve on their own, and the freedom to explore -- wi=
th
> mess, paint, clay, sticks, paper, fire, dough, water, earth, whatever com=
es
> to hand... to assemble junk into sculpture, learn to whittle, invent
> weapons, use tools. If that sounds too bucolic, consider that kids withou=
t
> supervision downtown address boredom by stealing a spray paint can and
> covering a train car or alley wall with artwork.
>
> My opinion: "kids these days" (she says in her crotchety voice) are
> overscheduled, oversupervised, over catered-to, over waited on and
> bought-for. Kids are not sent outside often enough with instructions to g=
o
> play until dinner, are not deprived of ipod/wii/laptop/tv often enough, a=
nd
> are taught to spend their energy on specific goals prescribed by someone
> else.
>
> I have corresponded since 1984 with an astrophysicist who was my prof at
> Ohio State. He once explained to me that it's a false dichotomy to separa=
te
> "arty" and creative people from serious scientists; that the greatest min=
ds
> of science were the ones who were able to make a leap -- and imagine
> something that had not yet been considered. While some were busy mapping =
and
> measuring the flat world, a light bulb went on that said, "or maybe round=
?"
> Discovery, invention, innovative ways of thinking: that's what freedom,
> boredom and unstructured time can provide for a kid (or an adult.) More
> hours of school (or year round school) won't move us back in the directio=
n
> of being that country full of innovators, quirky inventors, risk takers a=
nd
> enterpreneurs.
>
> Just sayin'.
>
> Yours
> Kelly in Ohio, up way too late planting seven kinds of eggplant seeds in
> flats.
>
>
>
> http://www.primalpotter.com (website)
> http://primalmommy.wordpress.com (blog)
> http://www.primalpotter.etsy.com (store)
>
Beth Donovan on sat 20 mar 10
And, even though I am the one who believes school dats are too short, I als=
o
said that kids need time to be kids. I did point out that parents
overschedule them. I did point out that they need time to read a book unde=
r
a tree or just hang around being kids.
And honestly, if the government did not mandate stuff like DARE be taught
(which studies have shown to be completely ineffective) and other mandated
classes, the school day might well be long enough. But when the govt. said
"this must be taught, that must be taught", no one added any time to the
school day for these things. So reading and writing and math were given
short shrift because God knows, the kids must all feel good about themselve=
s
and everyone else.
If I was a young mother now, I'd home school if at all possible.
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Marcia Selsor
Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 7:37 AM
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Kids, creativity, education
Great summation Kelly. I remember doing many of the things you mentioned.
Good perspective .
Marcia
On Mar 20, 2010, at 2:43 AM, Kelly Savino wrote:
> Reading over the conversation in all its wanderings, I tripped over a few
mentions of the school day being too short to be effective.
>
> Just popping in to differ.
>
> I have to believe that creativity, imagination, critical thinking skills,
a healthy sense of self, and the gift of an inquisitive mind are a product
of -- ready?
>
> Boredom.
>
> Unscheduled, unmonitored, "unproductive" time in which a kid has the
leisure to do nothing at all, or not much, free of oversight, goals and
assignments, clocks and rituals, and adults talking at him/her about some
second of third hand concept.
>
> Between school day and homework, sports and extracurriculars, tv and
computer, how much time do you suppose kids have to be bored, and find thei=
r
own amusements? Anybody remember lying in the grass looking at cloud shapes=
?
Fishing or netting little creek critters? Building a treehouse, flying a
kite, inventing some silly club with your friends? Ever clean up or decorat=
e
your bike? Collect or trade stuff? Dig for treasure? Play kid games until
you got called in at dark? Remember sandboxes, the real kind with ants and
the occasional cat poop?
>
> Ever see kids do that stuff anymore?
>
> School isn't a bad place, and there are some rockin' teachers out there.
Me, I forgot to send my kids to school at all for the first decade or so,
but as teens (and with our job loss and scramble) they are all in school no=
w
and having a marvelous experience. They had a good hands-on start and are
creative, respectful, funny and marvelous kids.
>
> The geology lesson with no rocks is not an anomaly. Teaching kids by
talking at them and filling their heads with prepackaged knowledge can kill
the spirit of inquiry pretty quickly -- and is an artifact of life before
the information age. Much of it will be outdated or irrelevant by the time
kids are out of school anyway. It's more important to know what the
questions are; anybody can google up the answers. We want Americans like th=
e
old school inventors, thinkers, writers, innovators -- we don't get that by
teaching kids to follow directions for the carrot and stick.
>
> Kids need boredom to solve on their own, and the freedom to explore --
with mess, paint, clay, sticks, paper, fire, dough, water, earth, whatever
comes to hand... to assemble junk into sculpture, learn to whittle, invent
weapons, use tools. If that sounds too bucolic, consider that kids without
supervision downtown address boredom by stealing a spray paint can and
covering a train car or alley wall with artwork.
>
> My opinion: "kids these days" (she says in her crotchety voice) are
overscheduled, oversupervised, over catered-to, over waited on and
bought-for. Kids are not sent outside often enough with instructions to go
play until dinner, are not deprived of ipod/wii/laptop/tv often enough, and
are taught to spend their energy on specific goals prescribed by someone
else.
>
> I have corresponded since 1984 with an astrophysicist who was my prof at
Ohio State. He once explained to me that it's a false dichotomy to separate
"arty" and creative people from serious scientists; that the greatest minds
of science were the ones who were able to make a leap -- and imagine
something that had not yet been considered. While some were busy mapping an=
d
measuring the flat world, a light bulb went on that said, "or maybe round?"
Discovery, invention, innovative ways of thinking: that's what freedom,
boredom and unstructured time can provide for a kid (or an adult.) More
hours of school (or year round school) won't move us back in the direction
of being that country full of innovators, quirky inventors, risk takers and
enterpreneurs.
>
> Just sayin'.
>
> Yours
> Kelly in Ohio, up way too late planting seven kinds of eggplant seeds in
flats.
>
>
>
> http://www.primalpotter.com (website)
> http://primalmommy.wordpress.com (blog)
> http://www.primalpotter.etsy.com (store)
>
Marcia Selsor
http://www.marciaselsor.com
Lee Love on sat 20 mar 10
In Mashiko, I walked my dogs about 5 miles a day, about 3.5 miles of
that along the river, the rest between the rice paddies. There were
all sorts of fish, crayfish, frogs and polly wogs in the waters. The
paddies teemed with life. I was always baffled by the lack of
children carrying buckets, jars or fishing poles.
The school life of a Japanese child is even more scripted than
the American child. Extra-curricular activities were mandatory,
which often kept folks from going away during holidays.
--=3D20
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
=3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
May Luk on sat 20 mar 10
I think everybody will find their ways no matter what kind of school
they go to, if they have it in them. A supportive family is more
important than school, I would think.
I had the Peking Duck education in Hong Kong til High School
graduation. I have no music, art in the high school curriculum and it
was very hard work, high pressured and I had to memorize a lot of
"stuff" in English, which is not my mother tongue. I don't think it's
that bad. It built a fine foundation for me and I am not afraid of
Maths or anything not "fun" like glaze chemistry.
With respect, I find invoking "play' in adult art education a bit
toe-curling. (Another one is to give oneself permission to be
creative, gross!) I also dislike the book "The Artist Way". Guess I
am not a fan of self-help type instruction.
May
The picnic or going to the beach with school friends after a big exam
is great memory for me.
On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 10:46 AM, Lee Love wrote:
> In Mashiko, =3DA0I walked my dogs about 5 miles a day, about 3.5 miles of
> that along the river, the rest between the rice paddies. =3DA0 =3DA0There=
wer=3D
e
> all sorts of fish, crayfish, frogs and polly wogs in the waters. =3DA0The
> paddies teemed with life. =3DA0 =3DA0 I was always baffled by the lack of
> children carrying buckets, jars or fishing poles.
>
> =3DA0 =3DA0 The school life of a Japanese child is even more scripted tha=
n
> the American child. =3DA0 Extra-curricular activities were mandatory,
> which often kept folks from going away during holidays.
>
> --
> =3DA0Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
> http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
>
> =3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
> the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
>
--=3D20
http://twitter.com/MayLuk
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