Dayton Grant on wed 14 apr 10
commentary on 'art schools'
on the subject of art schools I have nothing against them in general, but s=
pecifically the university level 'ceramics' programs (about 5 big ones) tha=
t I have checked out personally, are sorely lacking, most of them need to =
be audited for fraud and waste.
How the hell do they expect to be taken seriously when their pretentious 'M=
asters' can't throw their way out of a wet paper bag. Why don't they just s=
ell their worthless Masters degrees in Finger-Painting or playing the Kazoo=
. Community colleges seem to be a little more realistic and casual, and in =
my opinion the teachers are there to 'share', instead of 'hard selling' emp=
ty boxes to the students, making them feel like they've got a long way to g=
o and they're 'just not ready yet', like a Bob Dylan character 'Trying to h=
ide(or sell) what they don't know to begin with'.
The term 'ceramics' seems to be thrown around alot and used in place of 'sc=
ulpture' or 'design' in many cases, but these latter fields of study are no=
t dependent on the material being ceramic or clay, only that the material u=
sed be 'plastic' or 'moveable by hand'. and I definitely don't mean that ce=
ramic sculptors and hand-builders are not 'real' ceramists, some of my favo=
rite artists are hand-builders, and as a clay lover I feel like I can tell =
upon inspection how the clay in a given piece was treated and if it was pro=
perly respected for it's specific nature and character, but alot of 'so cal=
led' Masters Degree level work could just as well be made of Play-Doe or Pl=
aster or just plain Mud. It's like if you take an oil painting class and th=
ey teach you to use spray-paint and silk screens, because its 'just easier'=
or 'the teacher is'nt very good with a brush'.
The thing that upsets me is that 'university level' oil painters would neve=
r even 'consider' hiring a teacher who is not classically trained, tried an=
d confirmed, but somehow the line of integrity in ceramics has been broken,=
and most of the teachers I've examined (more than 100) are intermediate th=
rowers at best, the best Teachers I've encountered have been self made thro=
ugh hard work.
I believe the classical way to process ceramic material is on a wheel, and=
the classical artifacts produced have been for the most part functional an=
d or ceremonial. I saw some 'cartoony' bust of a woman with three breasts, =
and it was 'accepted' as the final exam for a Bachelor's Degree in ceramics=
, the statement was something like, "This piece explores 'gender issues' at=
large...blablablah" or some shit like that...I was thinking to myself, 'So=
mebody's ass needs to get fired'. Incidentally I turned down a student from=
that particular school because even though he had a 'bachelors degree' in =
ceramics, he really did'nt know shit about ceramics, dammit, I'm not a baby=
sitter, I'm an advanced pottery teacher, and you must be at least 'this ta=
ll, to ride this ride', okAY?...
I'm planning to work with the American Accreditation People to define some =
standard of achievement in ceramic skill, because I think the other countri=
es (Italy, Korea, Japan etc.) are laughing at us.
I've demonstrated the true 'state of the art' and suggested a 'voluntary' '=
upping' of the game, to some of these teachers along the way and they all s=
eem to be in it for the 'money' and their little 'big frog, small pond' sta=
tus, the consensus among unqualified teachers seems to be,
"Sure, we can tell the students the truth, and show them the real way to pr=
actice the art, AFTER 'my' run, this is my livelihood "
but the next guy says the same thing, and so on and so on, so the only way =
to straighten out the upper level teaching ranks, is to openly discredit th=
em and run 'em outta town (just joking) or more realistically get the offic=
ials in charge of accreditation to more closely monitor who is accredited t=
o represent our country's best and brightest teachers of ceramics, and phas=
e out the incompetence gradually.
I heard that after WWII the G.I. Bill enabled alot of people to become 'pro=
fessional students' in that they would choose their field of study and grad=
uate and then just stay in that field as a teacher. Well, some went into ph=
ysics or engineering or psychology but some went into the arts such as lite=
rature, dance or painting, and the artistic field with the least amount of =
history, tradition and oversight in this country was 'ceramics', you would =
have to be a 'real idiot' to fail ceramics, because there was nobody around=
to say whether you were doing it right, so you could just make it up as yo=
u went along and who was there to contradict you, all you had to do was 'sh=
ow up' and you passed the class , not to say that there were'nt any great t=
eachers that came out of the era, because there were, but for the most part=
it was just natural talent on the part of the great ones. Most of the teac=
hers that came from that time were'nt all that good, but they were
accepted, 'hey why not?' and they found their way into the 'food chain' of=
the university system and so now in the present we can boast a long line o=
f 'mediocre' ceramic teachers.
It is a sad day when the 'classical methods' of throwing and firing are see=
n as 'new and unusual' by the dang teachers, ...you've got a Masters degree=
, you're teaching college and you've never even 'seen' or 'heard of' the ri=
ght way to practice this art you have supposedly 'Mastered'? These things n=
eed to be addressed in order to restore the honor of a 'ceramics degree'.
...thats all I have to say about school right now
D.G.
Unapologetically 'pissed' about the whole thing.
Eric Hansen on thu 15 apr 10
Really the whole process is very simple, you find who (people, not
"programs") you want to work with and work with them. There are a number of
pottery professors around NCECA and Clayart who I would not mind enrolling
in. It sounds like you don't have an interest in that to me.
h a n s e n
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 11:43 AM, Dayton Grant wrote=
:
> commentary on 'art schools'
> on the subject of art schools I have nothing against them in general, but
> specifically the university level 'ceramics' programs (about 5 big ones)
> that I have checked out personally, are sorely lacking, most of them nee=
d
> to be audited for fraud and waste.
> How the hell do they expect to be taken seriously when their pretentious
> 'Masters' can't throw their way out of a wet paper bag. Why don't they ju=
st
> sell their worthless Masters degrees in Finger-Painting or playing the
> Kazoo. Community colleges seem to be a little more realistic and casual, =
and
> in my opinion the teachers are there to 'share', instead of 'hard selling=
'
> empty boxes to the students, making them feel like they've got a long way=
to
> go and they're 'just not ready yet', like a Bob Dylan character 'Trying t=
o
> hide(or sell) what they don't know to begin with'.
>
> The term 'ceramics' seems to be thrown around alot and used in place of
> 'sculpture' or 'design' in many cases, but these latter fields of study a=
re
> not dependent on the material being ceramic or clay, only that the materi=
al
> used be 'plastic' or 'moveable by hand'. and I definitely don't mean that
> ceramic sculptors and hand-builders are not 'real' ceramists, some of my
> favorite artists are hand-builders, and as a clay lover I feel like I can
> tell upon inspection how the clay in a given piece was treated and if it =
was
> properly respected for it's specific nature and character, but alot of 's=
o
> called' Masters Degree level work could just as well be made of Play-Doe =
or
> Plaster or just plain Mud. It's like if you take an oil painting class an=
d
> they teach you to use spray-paint and silk screens, because its 'just
> easier' or 'the teacher is'nt very good with a brush'.
> The thing that upsets me is that 'university level' oil painters would
> never even 'consider' hiring a teacher who is not classically trained, tr=
ied
> and confirmed, but somehow the line of integrity in ceramics has been
> broken, and most of the teachers I've examined (more than 100) are
> intermediate throwers at best, the best Teachers I've encountered have be=
en
> self made through hard work.
>
> I believe the classical way to process ceramic material is on a wheel, a=
nd
> the classical artifacts produced have been for the most part functional a=
nd
> or ceremonial. I saw some 'cartoony' bust of a woman with three breasts, =
and
> it was 'accepted' as the final exam for a Bachelor's Degree in ceramics, =
the
> statement was something like, "This piece explores 'gender issues' at
> large...blablablah" or some shit like that...I was thinking to myself,
> 'Somebody's ass needs to get fired'. Incidentally I turned down a student
> from that particular school because even though he had a 'bachelors degre=
e'
> in ceramics, he really did'nt know shit about ceramics, dammit, I'm not a
> baby sitter, I'm an advanced pottery teacher, and you must be at least 't=
his
> tall, to ride this ride', okAY?...
>
> I'm planning to work with the American Accreditation People to define som=
e
> standard of achievement in ceramic skill, because I think the other
> countries (Italy, Korea, Japan etc.) are laughing at us.
> I've demonstrated the true 'state of the art' and suggested a 'voluntary'
> 'upping' of the game, to some of these teachers along the way and they al=
l
> seem to be in it for the 'money' and their little 'big frog, small pond'
> status, the consensus among unqualified teachers seems to be,
> "Sure, we can tell the students the truth, and show them the real way to
> practice the art, AFTER 'my' run, this is my livelihood "
> but the next guy says the same thing, and so on and so on, so the only wa=
y
> to straighten out the upper level teaching ranks, is to openly discredit
> them and run 'em outta town (just joking) or more realistically get the
> officials in charge of accreditation to more closely monitor who is
> accredited to represent our country's best and brightest teachers of
> ceramics, and phase out the incompetence gradually.
>
> I heard that after WWII the G.I. Bill enabled alot of people to become
> 'professional students' in that they would choose their field of study an=
d
> graduate and then just stay in that field as a teacher. Well, some went i=
nto
> physics or engineering or psychology but some went into the arts such as
> literature, dance or painting, and the artistic field with the least amou=
nt
> of history, tradition and oversight in this country was 'ceramics', you
> would have to be a 'real idiot' to fail ceramics, because there was nobod=
y
> around to say whether you were doing it right, so you could just make it =
up
> as you went along and who was there to contradict you, all you had to do =
was
> 'show up' and you passed the class , not to say that there were'nt any gr=
eat
> teachers that came out of the era, because there were, but for the most p=
art
> it was just natural talent on the part of the great ones. Most of the
> teachers that came from that time were'nt all that good, but they were
> accepted, 'hey why not?' and they found their way into the 'food chain' =
of
> the university system and so now in the present we can boast a long line =
of
> 'mediocre' ceramic teachers.
>
> It is a sad day when the 'classical methods' of throwing and firing are
> seen as 'new and unusual' by the dang teachers, ...you've got a Masters
> degree, you're teaching college and you've never even 'seen' or 'heard of=
'
> the right way to practice this art you have supposedly 'Mastered'? These
> things need to be addressed in order to restore the honor of a 'ceramics
> degree'.
> ...thats all I have to say about school right now
>
> D.G.
> Unapologetically 'pissed' about the whole thing.
>
Lee Love on fri 16 apr 10
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Dayton Grant wrot=
=3D
e:
> The thing that upsets me is that 'university level' oil painters would ne=
=3D
ver even 'consider' hiring a teacher who is not classically trained,
Dayton,
Could you describe "classically trained"? Apprenticeship?
The guild system in Europe?
--
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
=3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
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