Elizabeth Priddy on sun 18 apr 10
So didn't Dayton and Tobin make the same point, that you can't learn what y=
ou need to now in current ceramics curricula?
But one is awe inspiring, and the other is being made the but of jokes.
Interesting. Reminds me of the lore/lure of large numbers.
Beaufort, NC - USA
Randall Moody on mon 19 apr 10
On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 10:14 PM, Elizabeth Priddy wr=
> So didn't Dayton and Tobin make the same point, that you can't learn what
> you need to know in current ceramics curricula?
> But one is awe inspiring, and the other is being made the but of jokes.
> Interesting. Reminds me of the lore/lure of large numbers.
> - ePriddy
> Elizabeth Priddy
> Beaufort, NC - USA
And both are wrong to a certain point. Every discipline taught in every
university in every country misses things that are better learned in real
life. That isn't to say that they are completely useless. I also think that
the difference between Tobin and Grant is in the doing. If you put yourself
on the pedestal you should expect to be knocked off.
Randall in Atlanta
Daniel Rotblatt on mon 19 apr 10
On Apr 19, 2010, at 10:43 AM, Randall Moody wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 10:14 PM, Elizabeth Priddy > >wrote:
>> So didn't Dayton and Tobin make the same point, that you can't
>> learn what
>> you need to know in current ceramics curricula?
>> But one is awe inspiring, and the other is being made the but of
>> Interesting. Reminds me of the lore/lure of large numbers.
>> - ePriddy
>> Elizabeth Priddy
>> Beaufort, NC - USA
> And both are wrong to a certain point. Every discipline taught in
> university in every country misses things that are better learned in
> life. That isn't to say that they are completely useless. I also
> think that
> the difference between Tobin and Grant is in the doing. If you put
> on the pedestal you should expect to be knocked off.
> Randall in Atlanta
Randall, you are right - schools miss what can only be learned by
doing on your own. I have a MFA in sculpture from 2005, and over the
last 5 years my education has continued as I learned to trust myself
and follow my own muse. I'm not unlearning what I learned, but adding
to it and moving forward. That is the case for all art educations -
it is a foundation to build on. You don't walk out of art school a
master at the craft you have chosen, but ready to start (and I
emphasize "start") practicing your art and coming into your own.
marci and rex on mon 19 apr 10
At 12:43 PM 4/19/2010, Randall Moody wrote:
>And both are wrong to a certain point. Every discipline taught in every
>university in every country misses things that are better learned in real
My favorite illustration of that was a girl who used to work for
us when my husband had his store fixture making busniess. She
graduated from O'More College of Design and couldnt write
a proper sentence to save her life !. It cracked me up when she
said that one of her assignments in design class started with the
words: "Your client is giving you an unlimited budget......"
marci the chinapainter
Snail Scott on mon 19 apr 10
On Apr 18, 2010, at 9:14 PM, Elizabeth Priddy wrote:
> So didn't Dayton and Tobin make the same point, that you can't learn
> what you need to [k]now in current ceramics curricula?
A similar conclusion in terms of action, but from very
different vantage points. I think they said nearly the
opposite of each other. It's their respective definitions
of 'what you need to know' that really sets them apart.
Steve Tobin said that school is bad because you
will only learn to think in one way, the academic
way, and you need more than that to be an artist. He
advocated seeking out a wide range of working artists
for instruction, rather than people who are primarily
teachers. His own work expresses some consistent
ideas and philosophies embodied in a very broad
range of materials and processes. The unifying,
underlying cohesion is in the ideas, not in the forms
In contrast, Dayton Grant seems to think school
would be ideal with only one mindset, as long as
that one way of thinking is the same as the one he
already has. If there is only one Right Way, then you
ought to seek out the one true guru and stick with
them, and not contaminate your vision with alternate
versions of the truth. The core of his work lies in a high
level of technical craftsmanship and skill, refining a
traditionally-defined range of forms allied to their
function. Process and the application of that process
seem to me to be the underlying core of his work.
They both do appear to dismiss school, but whereas
Dayton Grant seems to want to reform schools to his
preferred template, Steve Tobin seems to find fault
with the basic nature of an academic institution.
Dayton Grant is on the outside yelling to get in (as soon
as it meets his standards), while Steve Tobin (who does
have a college education, but not in art) is outside
telling artists in academia to get out, too, as the whole
concept is fundamentally flawed.
While Dayton Grant wants only the correct way to be
taught, Steven Tobin seems to believe that there is
no correct way.
Dayton Grant wants a certain type of ceramics education,
but it seems to be one that is poorly suited to be taught
in a college environment. There is certainly a place for
such a highly focused and specialized approach to
ceramics, but why insist that it be within a framework
designed for broad enquiry and diverse direction, i.e.
college? Do as Steve Tobin suggests, perhaps, and
seek out the ideal specialized practitioner, rather than
demanding a total re-construction of the college
Steve Tobin's outlook, I think, is exaggerated, but has
some legitimate observations, in that instructors who
have spent their whole life in the academic milieu will
be poorly equipped to help their students do otherwise.
Such teachers may still (I think) have a lot to teach,
and in a structured curriculum among many teachers,
maybe fewer things will drop through the cracks
untaught, or be lost in one person's blind spots.
A student intending a career as a working artist needs
to know, as does every student, that not everything
they need to know can ever be taught in school, not
all schools are the same, and that school is definitely
not the ideal training ground for everyone.