Dayton Grant on wed 21 apr 10
You make the assumption that I don't understand it.
(well 'prove' you understand it, show me your throwing, lets compare notes)
That is a false assumption and without merit.
(just prove it)
I can throw thin walls, high shoulders, pointy feet, rolled lips inverted =
waist and so on with greater ease with water than without.
(...of course you can)
If you take your 10 minute each videos as evidence your assertion that a dr=
y thrower can out produce a wet thrower by a "country mile" is shown to be =
patently false since there is nothing produced to support the assertion.
(Dude, you'll just have to take my word for it unless you wanna put your 'm=
oney' where your 'mouth' is, and 'pay' for a 'lesson' like that, cause in t=
hat case, I'm all in. otherwise, I'd like to see a video of 'your' method b=
efore you ask me all these questions like your schoolin' me or something
I do not as a rule trim the feet on my larger pots so wet throwing does not=
require trimming.
(what do you call large? I notice the sizes are not indicated on your websi=
te)
Your videos show poor results. I am yet to see a completed work of yours.
http://www.youtube.com/user/sunstoneceramics
http://www.youtube.com/user/sunstoneceramics#p/a/u/1/h6ZANz3A8YA
http://www.youtube.com/user/sunstoneceramics#p/a/u/2/82YlZ4v-3Vw
Calling into question your unsupported claims is not being a "hater".
(well you have'nt said anything encouraging or helpful lately)
As to out of shape, having seen the videos of you I don't think you should =
be making any statement as to the physique of anyone other than Micheal Moo=
re.
(yeah I'm fat, but I don't try to 'correct' ice skaters)
Now, what scholarly work can you cite to support your claim concerning the =
ancient Greek throwing methods?
(Try this for starters)
http://www.virtourist.com/europe/crete/10.htm
looking forward to your videos
D.G.
Dayton Grant on wed 21 apr 10
On the subject of dry throwing I can only ask , "Why?!"
Dayton's videos show poor results or none and Ms. Horie's seems overly
wasteful.
(...so don't criitcize, what you cant understand, your sons and your daught=
ers, are beyond your command, 'cause the times they are a-changin...
...why ask why, Randall ... the Be$t Rea$on$, to throw dry, are the
'Facility of Choreography'
meaning it affords the thrower 'many' more choices regarding the profile of=
any 'cylinder/sphere/cone' based work , for example 'thin walls' 'high sho=
udlers', 'pointy feet', 'rolled lips', 'inverted waist', and so on
'Efficiency of Production'
meaning a 'dry thrower' can out produce a wet thrower by a 'country mile', =
not to mention, the work requires little or no trimming, and can be taken o=
ff of the wheel, put directly in the kiln, (because of the 'drastically' lo=
wer moisture content) and fired the same day.
I could go on and on, but I'm not going to just 'spoon feed' you all of thi=
s shit, I don't think it's reasonable for you to be so negatively critical =
about something that you have'nt even tried (or maybe you have tried, and y=
ou just cant do it...)
You say I have 'poor results' ...
I threw several cylinders with out water,
if you don't 'get' it,
then 'you' just don't get it.
You say Ms. Horie seems overly wasteful, well she is 'working on it' and 's=
haring', I, for one, 'respect' that, and I've never met her, but I would pr=
obably help her in any way I could, while you, I would try to just avoid.
You remind me of some 'pretentious', 'out of shape', 'mouth breather', judg=
ing an 'ice skating' contest,
saying stuff like, 'Oh that last spin was a little 'sloppy',
when 'you' could 'never' do anything 'close' to that yourself.
"Don't be hater, be a congratulator"
Here, I translated some "Egyptian Graffiti" for ya'...
the Potters Wheel holds the keys to certain mysteries that are not to be en=
tirely disclosed to
the 'ambitious' (who would squander them)
the 'undisciplined' (who would pervert them) and
the 'wicked' (who would use them to abuse the weak)
these 'emotional characters' should never be mistaken for the initiates of =
our higher sciences who have gained their knowledge by strict detachment an=
d impersonality
it is 'good' to identify and 'initiate' those capable of a 'teaching' that =
will give their activities an unusual 'quality' and ensure their 'discretio=
n'
one may 'gain' the 'right' to this knowledge through the 'training' of a 'm=
ind' that would never betray it, Those that take this path are a 'minority'=
and the majority would never relish their pleasures,
no one is beholden to 'prefer' the austere and impersonal quest in which th=
ose of the 'inner' school are engaged
it is therefore necessary that 'the very pleasure of their own becoming' sh=
ould bring about the 'consciousness of real nobility', the nobility of 'alt=
ruism', so that none turn back
this results in the 'successful continuity' of the 'traditional body of kno=
wledge' and an 'inviolate mystery' that protects it, and the 'anonymity' of=
one's work.
the Master Craftsmen have 'intentionally' placed certain obstacles on which=
all initiates are 'silent', so that no one can 'assimilate the teaching' b=
y investigation alone, being that it is an 'analogy' of the very cosmos and=
to 'reveal' it would be to reveal the 'mystery of genesis itself' and the =
'great becoming', which must never be accorded but to the tried and tested =
who would not make ill use of it,
for when 'conspicuous consumption' comes to be widely viewed as a 'need', t=
hen society is no longer governed by the 'reverence of quality' but the 'lu=
st for quantity'
this is what 'justifies' the 'private school' and it's 'mysteries' which ha=
ve never been lost or compromised since before any time you know of
in every age we have drawn our 'strength' from this 'school' which has allo=
wed us to assert our 'wisdom without vanity', as the wisdom comes not from =
any one man but from a system of 'traditional training'
the Master Craftsman interacts with a world of which most know nothing, bec=
ause it is'nt normally perceptible to one's senses
'forces without form' move through our 'atmosphere' with out apparent 'cont=
act' with us because their 'substance' is not the same as ours
we have only 'one thing' in common with them, which is a 'emotional life' a=
nd that in us which yields to emotion, necessarily submits itself to the i=
nfluences of this strange world
but with true discipline one can master these forces and have them serve us=
for they are eager to borrow a substance in which to materialize, so as to=
make contact with our mode of existence
the Master Craftsman produces the artifact but to 'activate' it's 'nature' =
he must 'pronounce' the sound of 'becoming' into his 'breath' by which emot=
ional power takes position in the 'body' of said 'artifact'...
http://www.youtube.com/user/PotterySchoolDotCom#p/f/90/PLPk5va1ygg
By the way, the teacher in this video, is an anthropomorphic being with an =
animal head, that never speaks, who throws without any water, seems to chan=
nel some ethereal energy, and 'breathes the life' into his work, so it seem=
s that the basic pottery myth has'nt changed all that much in thousands of =
years ...
Good luck in your studies.
D.G.
Randall Moody on thu 22 apr 10
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 6:28 PM, Dayton Grant wrote=
:
> You make the assumption that I don't understand it.
> (well 'prove' you understand it, show me your throwing, lets compare note=
s)
>
> That is a false assumption and without merit.
> (just prove it)
>
> I can throw thin walls, high shoulders, pointy feet, rolled lips inverte=
d
> waist and so on with greater ease with water than without.
> (...of course you can)
>
> If you take your 10 minute each videos as evidence your assertion that a
> dry thrower can out produce a wet thrower by a "country mile" is shown to=
be
> patently false since there is nothing produced to support the assertion.
> (Dude, you'll just have to take my word for it unless you wanna put your
> 'money' where your 'mouth' is, and 'pay' for a 'lesson' like that, cause =
in
> that case, I'm all in. otherwise, I'd like to see a video of 'your' metho=
d
> before you ask me all these questions like your schoolin' me or something
>
> I do not as a rule trim the feet on my larger pots so wet throwing does n=
ot
> require trimming.
> (what do you call large? I notice the sizes are not indicated on your
> website)
>
> Your videos show poor results. I am yet to see a completed work of yours.
> http://www.youtube.com/user/sunstoneceramics
> http://www.youtube.com/user/sunstoneceramics#p/a/u/1/h6ZANz3A8YA
> http://www.youtube.com/user/sunstoneceramics#p/a/u/2/82YlZ4v-3Vw
>
> Calling into question your unsupported claims is not being a "hater".
> (well you have'nt said anything encouraging or helpful lately)
>
> As to out of shape, having seen the videos of you I don't think you shoul=
d
> be making any statement as to the physique of anyone other than Micheal
> Moore.
> (yeah I'm fat, but I don't try to 'correct' ice skaters)
>
> Now, what scholarly work can you cite to support your claim concerning th=
e
> ancient Greek throwing methods?
> (Try this for starters)
>
> http://www.virtourist.com/europe/crete/10.htm
>
> looking forward to your videos
> D.G.
>
You fall in to a common mistake. Since you are the one that is making the
assertions so it is up to you to provide support or prove them correct. It
isn't up to me or anyone else to prove you wrong. Virtourist.com is not a
scholarly reference. It also says nothing to back up the claim you made
concerning dry throwing in relation to ancient Greek forms.
I am looking forward to pictures of your competed forms.
--
Randall in Atlanta
http://wrandallmoody.com/home.html
Lee Love on thu 22 apr 10
Links to finished work would be much appreciated. I am into process
as much as anybody. But as they say, "The proof is in the puddin'."
--
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
=3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
Randall Moody on thu 22 apr 10
On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 12:40 PM, Randall Moody wr=
ote:
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 11:57 AM, Randall Moody =
wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 6:28 PM, Dayton Grant wro=
te:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> looking forward to your videos
>>> D.G.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Here is an old video I made for my students to review. The purpose was n=
ot
> to throw tall or thin or even quickly in this but rather to review the st=
eps
> for my students. The length is 8:06 including centering. The music is mos=
t
> definitely not Mark Whitfield since youtube decided to change it for me.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DkwP-_SFa1jU
>
> I am done with this discussion for the moment since I don't see any value
> in continuing it. It is becoming less about clay and more about
> unsubstantiated claims not being backed up with real references and a p'i=
ng
> contest. So, have fun throwing.
>
> --
> Randall in Atlanta
> http://wrandallmoody.com/home.html
>
KATHI LESUEUR on thu 22 apr 10
Ok Dayton, now that I know you are the best at everything, you know
everything, and you can prove it I'll just use the delete key every
time I see a post from you. You've said it all. More than once. I'm
tired of hearing it.
KATHI LESUEUR
http://www.lesueurclaywork.com
On Apr 21, 2010, at 6:28 PM, Dayton Grant wrote:
> You make the assumption that I don't understand it.
> (well 'prove' you understand it, show me your throwing, lets
> compare notes)
>
> That is a false assumption and without merit.
> (just prove it)
>
> I can throw thin walls, high shoulders, pointy feet, rolled lips
> inverted waist and so on with greater ease with water than without.
> (...of course you can)
>
> If you take your 10 minute each videos as evidence your assertion
> that a dry thrower can out produce a wet thrower by a "country
> mile" is shown to be patently false since there is nothing produced
> to support the assertion.
> (Dude, you'll just have to take my word for it unless you wanna put
> your 'money' where your 'mouth' is, and 'pay' for a 'lesson' like
> that, cause in that case, I'm all in. otherwise, I'd like to see a
> video of 'your' method before you ask me all these questions like
> your schoolin' me or something
>
> I do not as a rule trim the feet on my larger pots so wet throwing
> does not require trimming.
> (what do you call large? I notice the sizes are not indicated on
> your website)
>
> Your videos show poor results. I am yet to see a completed work of
> yours.
> http://www.youtube.com/user/sunstoneceramics
> http://www.youtube.com/user/sunstoneceramics#p/a/u/1/h6ZANz3A8YA
> http://www.youtube.com/user/sunstoneceramics#p/a/u/2/82YlZ4v-3Vw
>
> Calling into question your unsupported claims is not being a "hater".
> (well you have'nt said anything encouraging or helpful lately)
>
> As to out of shape, having seen the videos of you I don't think you
> should be making any statement as to the physique of anyone other
> than Micheal Moore.
> (yeah I'm fat, but I don't try to 'correct' ice skaters)
>
> Now, what scholarly work can you cite to support your claim
> concerning the ancient Greek throwing methods?
> (Try this for starters)
>
> http://www.virtourist.com/europe/crete/10.htm
>
> looking forward to your videos
> D.G.
>
Jeff Gieringer on fri 23 apr 10
Dayton, I think what everyone is trying to say is, SHOW US THE MONEY. You
have been speaking to some very well known and very successful potters in a
condescending and smartass tone. You sound like you might know a little
something, but have nothing to back it up. I'm not impressed with your
videos and doubt that you made them to do so. If you could humble yourself
ever so slightly, you may learn a little something on here instead of
pissing off the entire Clayart community. JMHO ;^)
Jeff Gieringer
Berea, Kentucky
----- Original Message -----
From: "KATHI LESUEUR"
To:
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: Why ask Why, Randall?
> Ok Dayton, now that I know you are the best at everything, you know
> everything, and you can prove it I'll just use the delete key every
> time I see a post from you. You've said it all. More than once. I'm
> tired of hearing it.
>
> KATHI LESUEUR
> http://www.lesueurclaywork.com
>
>
>
> On Apr 21, 2010, at 6:28 PM, Dayton Grant wrote:
>
>> You make the assumption that I don't understand it.
>> (well 'prove' you understand it, show me your throwing, lets
>> compare notes)
>>
>> That is a false assumption and without merit.
>> (just prove it)
>>
>> I can throw thin walls, high shoulders, pointy feet, rolled lips
>> inverted waist and so on with greater ease with water than without.
>> (...of course you can)
>>
>> If you take your 10 minute each videos as evidence your assertion
>> that a dry thrower can out produce a wet thrower by a "country
>> mile" is shown to be patently false since there is nothing produced
>> to support the assertion.
>> (Dude, you'll just have to take my word for it unless you wanna put
>> your 'money' where your 'mouth' is, and 'pay' for a 'lesson' like
>> that, cause in that case, I'm all in. otherwise, I'd like to see a
>> video of 'your' method before you ask me all these questions like
>> your schoolin' me or something
>>
>> I do not as a rule trim the feet on my larger pots so wet throwing
>> does not require trimming.
>> (what do you call large? I notice the sizes are not indicated on
>> your website)
>>
>> Your videos show poor results. I am yet to see a completed work of
>> yours.
>> http://www.youtube.com/user/sunstoneceramics
>> http://www.youtube.com/user/sunstoneceramics#p/a/u/1/h6ZANz3A8YA
>> http://www.youtube.com/user/sunstoneceramics#p/a/u/2/82YlZ4v-3Vw
>>
>> Calling into question your unsupported claims is not being a "hater".
>> (well you have'nt said anything encouraging or helpful lately)
>>
>> As to out of shape, having seen the videos of you I don't think you
>> should be making any statement as to the physique of anyone other
>> than Micheal Moore.
>> (yeah I'm fat, but I don't try to 'correct' ice skaters)
>>
>> Now, what scholarly work can you cite to support your claim
>> concerning the ancient Greek throwing methods?
>> (Try this for starters)
>>
>> http://www.virtourist.com/europe/crete/10.htm
>>
>> looking forward to your videos
>> D.G.
>>
>
ivor & olive lewis on fri 23 apr 10
Dear Dayton Grant,
Re. http://www.youtube.com/user/PotterySchoolDotCom#p/f/90/PLPk5va1ygg
A wonderful tribute via Claymation to our noble craft.
Sincerely,
Ivor Lewis,
Redhill,
South Australia
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