Dayton Grant on thu 22 apr 10
I just want to ask anyone involved (especially ceramic teachers) or interes=
ted:
If you think it is a 'moral obligation' of a ceramic teacher, or 'school' t=
eaching ceramics,
to notify their students of new developments in the field,
(like more efficient throwing methods or more efficient kilns) or not, and =
how you've come to that opinion.
I was throwing in a class once and one of the students pointed to me and sa=
id, "We wanna learn how to do what he's doing", and the teacher said, "He's=
using different clay than us", and I was using the 'exact' same clay. Afte=
r the class the teacher came over to me and said I could'nt throw there any=
more, "in front of any students".
So 'that' teacher in particular was clearly in it for the money, and had no=
trouble lying and keeping his 'students' in the dark for a couple of bucks=
.
... it's like the political scene lately, are the teachers (politicians) r=
eally there to serve the best interests of the students (constituants) or =
are they more concerned with 'keeping their jobs' no matter what, even when=
it becomes clear that they are no longer fit for the position.
Please let me know what you think,
Thanx Dayton
Kelly Savino on fri 23 apr 10
Dayton Grant wrote:
>If you think it is a 'moral obligation' of a ceramic teacher, or 'school' =
teaching ceramics,
>to notify their students of new developments in the field,
>(like more efficient throwing methods or more efficient kilns) or not, and=
how you've come to that >opinion.
>I was throwing in a class once and one of the students pointed to me and s=
aid, "We wanna learn how to do >what he's doing", and the teacher said, "He=
's using different clay than us", and I was using the 'exact' same clay. (s=
nip)
Yes, Dayton. By all means, a congressional 'committee' should be formed to =
'investigate' whether you are infinitely more 'qualified' than all of your =
"teachers" and whether they are, therefore, 'unethical' charlatans for not =
bringing students into the 'true way and the light' of your dry throwing 't=
rick'.
Dude. Give it a rest. Get over yourself. We get it, you learned to do a coo=
l thing and are proud of yourself. Can you design? trim? glaze? how's your =
eye? what does your finished work look like, in case we want to pony up our=
Ben Franklins?
Here's a marketing tip: if you want to promote your work or your technique,=
don't open your pitch with "You're all idiots, schools are a joke, teacher=
s suck, look what I can do". I don't care if you can extrude kiln posts wit=
h your nostrils, it's not worth wading through the self important blabla to=
learn about it.
Yours
Kelly in Ohio
where I get to decide for myself what's a waste of my time
http://www.primalpotter.com (website)
http://primalmommy.wordpress.com (blog)
http://www.primalpotter.etsy.com (store)
William & Susan Schran User on fri 23 apr 10
On 4/22/10 9:08 PM, "Dayton Grant" wrote:
> I just want to ask anyone involved (especially ceramic teachers) or
> interested:
>
> If you think it is a 'moral obligation' of a ceramic teacher, or 'school'
> teaching ceramics,
> to notify their students of new developments in the field,
> (like more efficient throwing methods or more efficient kilns) or not, an=
d how
> you've come to that opinion.
As I wrote in another response, I tell my students that there are multiple
ways to approach throwing and none of them are the right way or the wrong
way. I demonstrate a method of throwing that uses water in parts of the
process, then little or no water in other parts. I always explain why
specific actions are used. Understanding why, rather that just saying "do
this", I think is very important for development of skills.
What I now teach is different than when I began teaching more than 33+ year=
s
ago. I have learned, grown and changed over time. The wheel throwing proces=
s
I teach now is a result of observing the techniques of others and adopting
parts of the process that make sense and work for me.
I always encourage my students to study under more than one person. Wheneve=
r
there is an artist in town giving a workshop in something that I don't teac=
h
in depth, I tell my students they should attend. This past weekend Sequoia
Miller was in town presenting a workshop of his altered forms and 5 of my
students went.
I also teach my students about glaze calculation/formulation using Glaze
Master software. Back when I was in school we had charts in books and table
top calculators to formulate glazes. This past summer we had a class in
developing glazes for ^6 reduction, which we have now moved to from ^10
glazes.
I don't think there is any moral obligation in what I do. It is my job to
provide a quality educational experience for my students.
FYI - One of my colleagues in graduate school did his research and thesis o=
n
double-walled pottery. This was back in 1976. To throw his forms he used a
dry throwing technique because it worked well for what he was creating. So
for me, dry throwing is not a new development.
Bill
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Stephani Stephenson on fri 23 apr 10
Everything* that happens in life ,happens in ceramics education.
*possible exaggeration here, but not by much......
i.e. i've seen enough to feel flagrantly qualified to make the above
grandiose yet
essentially, or at least marginally true statement ..:)
Stephani Stephenson
ivor & olive lewis on fri 23 apr 10
Dear Dayton Grant,
You ask <'school' teaching ceramics, to notify their students of new developments in
the field,(like more efficient throwing methods or more efficient kilns) or
not, and how you've come to that opinion.>>
Regardless of subject matter or curriculum faculty it is axiomatic that a
Teacher is of benefit to their students only if they keep abreast of
research and development, including new knowledge of historical examples an=
d
cultural differences in their chosen fields of Learning. This is not
necessarily a moral issue, it is a professional obligation. Who would wish
to learn from an ignorant teacher ?
With respect to your example from the field of ceramics. Some teachers have
a blinkered view of their task. A wise teacher would have invited you to
demonstrate your technique rather than behaving as you describe.
Regards,
Ivor Lewis,
Redhill,
South Australia
jonathan byler on fri 23 apr 10
A wise teacher told him to piss off, because he was a disruption to
the class and an attention whore.
nothing to see here people, move along....
On Apr 23, 2010, at 1:25 AM, ivor & olive lewis wrote:
> Dear Dayton Grant,
>
> You ask <> teacher, or
> 'school' teaching ceramics, to notify their students of new
> developments in
> the field,(like more efficient throwing methods or more efficient
> kilns) or
> not, and how you've come to that opinion.>>
>
>
>
> Regardless of subject matter or curriculum faculty it is axiomatic
> that a
> Teacher is of benefit to their students only if they keep abreast of
> research and development, including new knowledge of historical
> examples and
> cultural differences in their chosen fields of Learning. This is not
> necessarily a moral issue, it is a professional obligation. Who
> would wish
> to learn from an ignorant teacher ?
>
>
>
> With respect to your example from the field of ceramics. Some
> teachers have
> a blinkered view of their task. A wise teacher would have invited
> you to
> demonstrate your technique rather than behaving as you describe.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Ivor Lewis,
> Redhill,
> South Australia
Snail Scott on fri 23 apr 10
On Apr 22, 2010, at 8:08 PM, Dayton Grant wrote:
> I just want to ask anyone involved (especially ceramic teachers) or
> interested:
> If you think it is a 'moral obligation' of a ceramic teacher, or
> 'school' teaching ceramics,
> to notify their students of new developments in the field...
To answer your specific question: As a teacher, there
are a zillion things I can teach my students every day
that I see them, and one of the hardest parts of teaching,
for me, has been learning to prune down my lessons to
the amount of information that can actually be assimilated!
Too much information can bury the really important stuff,
and too many options at once can leave students flailing
and bewildered.
Some people learn quicker than others and want to know
more, and I always let my students know that they can
ask for that extra information. If they show an interest in a
particular idea, technique, tradition, practice, etc, I will be
happy to tell all I know about it, and demonstrate what I
can. (And tell them when I just don't know.) I treat my
lectures and demos like DVD's, telling them when an
'extra feature' is available. For instance, I don't teach
throwing off the hump in first semester classes, but I do
tell them there is a way to throw lots of small things from
one big piece of clay, avoiding the need to wedge a whole
lot of little bits separately. Then, when someone decides
they want to make some small wheel-thrown things, they
can ask for that demo. They ask because they are ready
to learn it, and that's the time to teach it. Otherwise, I'll
save that lecture until they've all gotten solid with centering,
opening, and drawing up an average-sized cylinder.
Because a lot of my students are Art Ed majors, and may
actually be teaching clay next semester with no more
training than my Ceramics I class, I pile on a lot of info
about what is possible. I can't teach it all in one semester,
but I try to make sure they know that the info does exist,
out there, for the seeking. In short, I try to tell them not
just what I am actually teaching, but what things I'm not
teaching them, too.
It's important to know what it is that you don't know.
Otherwise, how will you know that you need to learn it?
However, that learning can't all be simultaneous.
A person could spend a lifetime and not be able to learn
everything there is to know about clay. Why expect any
teacher to teach it all in just one class?
It's unfortunate that you encountered someone ignorant
of your methods who seemed unwilling to let them be
taught, but his reasons for shooing you away may not have
been just personal insecurity or an attempt to preserve
his know-it-all status. That person may simply have been
trying to keep it simple for the students by demonstrating
one technique at a time. Or not.
That said, your 'question' didn't seem like a genuine
request for opinions so much as fishing for affirmation of
your outrage and righteous indignation. (It's a bit like those
political polls that ask if you approve of Senator X gutting
public education, when the actual act of Senator X was
to reduce property taxes.) You are fishing for the answer
you have already decided you want, so I won't give it to
you. I'm just contrary that way. (With political polls, too.)
You probably didn't encounter the flower of ceramics
teaching that day, and maybe he was rude and not
open-minded or supportive of alternative methods, but
that doesn't mean this teacher had a 'moral obligation' to
teach his students your method, on that day or any other.
-Snail
Bonnie Staffel on sat 24 apr 10
Snail, you sound like a very talented teacher. I also agree with your
premise of teaching. My second year of pottery, I turned to books when
working in my own studio (kitchen actually) and of course Bernard
Leach's book was it. When I first read it I gleaned the information that =
=3D
I
could understand and work on, where so much was not of interest or not
understandable by me in my newbie shirt. Later on, with second and third
readings of his book as I progressed in my learning curve, found that =3D
almost
every sentence of his book contained information that I was ready to =3D
accept
and use.=3D20
I remember a very goofy error I made when attending the second class and
learning to throw at the museum, was that I could get a red glaze from
copper in the electric kiln. So I glazed this pot with the simple =3D
formula
offered in his book and it came out green. To my surprise and further
delving into his book, then understood the function of reduction firing =3D
and
that I would not be able to do that until a few years later. I think I =3D
was
fascinated by copper reds very early on so researched how I could =3D
achieve
that color in my electric kiln.=3D20
Bonnie Staffel
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
http://vasefinder.com/bstaffelgallery1.html
DVD=3DA0 Throwing with Coils and Slabs
DVD=3DA0 Introduction to Wheel Work
Charter Member Potters Council
| |
|
