Rimas VisGirda on sun 4 jul 10
I make my cone packs using plastic clay just before I close the kiln. I pok=
e the clay with a needle tool with many, many, many holes. They never blow =
up. A friend used to knead in a bunch of vermiculite for his cone packs an=
d also put them in wet, they never blew up. Some people pre-make their pack=
s and get them bone dry -but that could still be susceptible to blow ups de=
pending on how fast one fires. Some people use Orton cone pack holders. Som=
e people use self supporting cones. Each to his own. -Rimas
Rimas VisGirda on sun 4 jul 10
Yes, the vermiculite came from Orton cone boxes. I never used that method, =
I used pretty much the method that Vince describes including the paper unde=
rneath, which is very important, I used a small strip of newspaper. I think=
I may have punched more needle tool holes than he specifies. My theory was=
that if you punch enough holes there is no "piece" of clay thicker than 1/=
32-64 of an inch which would dry VERY fast and the H2O in the clay would mi=
grate out easily... I purchased some Orton cone plaques and self supportin=
g cones when I was teaching, but mostly as a novelty and to show my student=
s how a company can take advantage of amateurs and hobbyists and generate e=
xtra income by producing completely un-neccesary products...
-Rimas
William & Susan Schran User on sun 4 jul 10
On 7/4/10 4:08 AM, "Rimas VisGirda" wrote:
> I make my cone packs using plastic clay just before I close the kiln. I p=
oke
> the clay with a needle tool with many, many, many holes. They never blow =
up. A
> friend used to knead in a bunch of vermiculite for his cone packs and al=
so
> put them in wet, they never blew up. Some people pre-make their packs and=
get
> them bone dry -but that could still be susceptible to blow ups depending =
on
> how fast one fires. Some people use Orton cone pack holders. Some people =
use
> self supporting cones. Each to his own. -Rimas
Several years ago when Orton was using vermiculite as packing material in
their boxes of cones, I would mix the vermiculite with clay to make cone
plaques that wouldn't blow up - but I would make several dozen sets at a
time to allow plenty of time for drying out.
When Orton began packing with foam, I searched for alternatives. One I foun=
d
was on Orton's web site:
http://www.ortonceramic.com/store/product.php?productid=3D16370&cat=3D249&p=
age=3D1
These cone plaques are ram pressed clay and come 100 to a box. They come as
greenware and each triangular hole has a slight angle at the bottom so the
cones are always positioned at the correct angle. I believe these plaques
are intended for one-time use, but I have been using them over & over for
several years. I coat the slot for the lowest melting cone with alumina so
the cone will not stick to the plaque. Other cones just pop back out,
sometimes encouraged by levering with a screwdriver.
The plaques will eventually break, but I've been using them about 5 years
and I think I've gone through about 30 of the 100 that I bought.
Think these would be a good idea for those who are forever forgetting to
make up cone packs ahead of time or those who want to set cones exactly the
same angle each time.
Bill
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
John Hesselberth on mon 5 jul 10
On Jul 4, 2010, at 5:09 PM, William & Susan Schran User wrote:
> Think these would be a good idea for those who are forever forgetting =3D
to
> make up cone packs ahead of time or those who want to set cones =3D
exactly the
> same angle each time
I am surprised about so much discussion of cone packs. Self supporting =3D
cones are much more convenient and guarantee consistent angles. Nor do =3D
they ever blow up. I haven't made a cone pack in several years.
Regards,
John
John Hesselberth
http://www.frogpondpottery.com
http://www.masteringglazes.com
James Freeman on tue 6 jul 10
Rimas...
I use pot lifters too! And a Giffen Grip! And, for the first time in
my entire life bought a car with an automatic transmission. Man, I
should just shut up!
All the best.
...James
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I
should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 3:14 AM, Rimas VisGirda wrote:
There are other products that I feel are silly to use, pot lifters
for one, but as I think I said in my original post, each to his own.
This year I want to dip some pieces and not have to touch up the
finger marks, so I brought a pair of glaze tongs... Maybe I should
practice what I preach
Rimas VisGirda on tue 6 jul 10
Hi James, you are right, I was a bit over the top re Orton. Orton is a grea=
t company that supports ceramics in many ways. When I was teaching I made a=
point of instructing my students how to make a sopping wet conepack that w=
on't blow up, whether they chose to do that when out of school was up to th=
em. And you are right that using cone holders or self supporting cones can =
be a convenience that is worth the extra (minimal) cost to some people. I, =
myself, sometimes use self supporting cones to check if the computer or TC =
is behaving properly... saves getting a pinch of clay and sticking a cone i=
n and punching it. Most of what I fire can have a 1-2 cone range without af=
fecting my results, but occasionally I need to know if the kiln is spot on =
in a 30F range. When I was teaching we needed a cone pack for the (cone 10)=
gas kilns, the electric bisques had a kiln sitter (setter?) and we used th=
e small cones in that. If we ran out of small cones we broke a large
cone and used the tip... for a bisque it doesn't much matter. Since I don'=
t have a gas kiln (yet) in my studio and my electrics are all computer driv=
en, I have gotten lazy... My apologies to Orton and the people that use the=
ir products. There are other products that I feel are silly to use, pot lif=
ters for one, but as I think I said in my original post, each to his own. I=
am at the International Ceramics Studio in Kecskemet, Hungary for the mont=
h; there are bats with pin holes but none of the wheels have holes drilled =
for bat pins -go figure. This year I want to dip some pieces and not have t=
o touch up the finger marks, so I brought a pair of glaze tongs... Maybe I =
should practice what I preach... -Rimas
Louis Katz on wed 7 jul 10
I make proper cone packs. Normally I don't punch little holes in them.
Normally I don't mix vermiculite in them. Normally they don't blow up.
Normally I don't break them open after a firing. Normally they are made o=
=3D
f
the class clay as it comes out of the bucket. When anything is fishy at a=
=3D
ll
they are broken open to look for signs of bloating, reduction, and who kn=
=3D
ows
what else. If I punch holes in them they would not serve this purpose as
well as they do.
Normally we do not now have much crawling. Before we candled we did. Now
that we candle we do not blow up cone packs. If you follow proper procedu=
=3D
res
you do not need proper cone packs:) .=3D20
When I used vermicullite in my clay it never blew up. No need for the lit=
=3D
tle
holes. Fact is we routinely make very thick objects here. I am willing to=
=3D
fire 6 inches thick if there is a good reason for it, maybe more, but it =
=3D
is
truly amazing that a simple hole through the center of an object relieves=
=3D
the pressure from steam and halves the effective thickness.
We also on occasion make very thick work with vermiculite mixed into clay=
=3D
.
Greg Rueter who teaches mostly sculpture now used to make aquarium rocks
that way. The stuff was too sharp or perhaps some thing else was the caus=
=3D
e,
but fish did not seem to survive his underwater grottos and mountains. I
used to use sawdust for this, but vermicullite is easier to fire.
Rules ( unless concerning safety) are often just guidelines in the studio=
=3D
.
My favorite thing to say is, "That will never work, you should try it".=3D2=
0=3D
Louis
Lee Love on wed 7 jul 10
I blew up a cone pack last night for the first time, at 11;30pm. Was
the top pack. Opened kiln, let it cool, and then cleaned up the
debris. Didn't finish until 3:30am. So much for rushing!
--
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
James Freeman on wed 7 jul 10
On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 7:00 AM, Louis Katz wrote:
> Rules ( unless concerning safety) are often just guidelines in the studio=
.
> My favorite thing to say is, "That will never work, you should try it".
Louis...
One of my favorite philosophers is author Robert Heinlein, who said
(as Lazarus Long, in Time Enough for Love); "Always listen to experts.
They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it."
BTW, I grew up near your old stomping grounds. Spent a goodly portion
of my childhood at Oak Park Park. Did you know there was a secret
trap door under the train, through which one could climb inside the
boiler?
Take care.
...James
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I
should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
Jim Kasper on wed 7 jul 10
=3D20
on Wed Jul=3DA07,=3DA02010 7:56=3DA0am (PDT)
Louis Katz said:
My favorite thing
to say is, "That will never work, you should try it".=3DA0
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
=3D3D
Louis,
=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 Fine words
of wisdom. I envy your students.
Regards,
Jim
Zafka
Studios
Jensen Beach, FL.
http://zafka.com
Phone:
772-334-3070
Vince Pitelka on thu 8 jul 10
Louis Katz wrote:
Now that we candle we do not blow up cone packs. If you follow proper
procedures you do not need proper cone packs.
Louis -
I appreciate the point, but of course there's no sense in making cone packs
that are not carefully made. I hate those self-supporting cones, and the
pre-made cone packs. I think they are clunky and I do not like the way the=
y
stand up. My cone packs are a lot more stable, and for me they are
absolutely reliable. Someone posted that Orton recommends their premade
cone pack holders over homemade cone packs. That is ridiculous.
I can only speak from my own experience. I have seen every kind of homemad=
e
cone pack blow up when improperly made or improperly fired. In 40 years of
making cone packs, I have always poked holes in mine with a needle tool, an=
d
I have never had one of my cone packs blow up. I am sorry if that sounds
boastful, but it is just the truth. I would not make a cone pack any other
way. For those who missed it, my handout on making cone packs is at my
website at
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/syllabi-handouts/handouts/Making%20Proper%2=
0
Cone%20Packs.htm.
I am not sure of your point about making thick objects. We frequently make
thick pieces to, but they are bisque-fired before the glaze firing, or they
are single-fired very slowly. Cone packs made by my method can be put in
the kiln right after they made, while still wet, and the glaze-firing can b=
e
fired off quickly, and the cone packs will not blow up. That can be an
advantage at times.
There seems to be some sort of misunderstanding among some Clayarters that
my handout implies that everyone should make cone packs my way. What a
silly and foolish assumption. Every handout I give out except for safety
handouts is a suggestion of ways to do things. I want my students (and
everyone on Clayart) to gather information and then make up their own minds=
.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Steve Mills on thu 8 jul 10
I have a piece of soft brick (K23) with a row of cone-base-sized-holes in
it. Just put a new set in for each firing -- doesn't blow up!! :-)
Used the same piece for a few years now
Steve M
On 8 July 2010 05:52, Lee Love wrote:
> I blew up a cone pack last night for the first time, at 11;30pm. Was
> the top pack. Opened kiln, let it cool, and then cleaned up the
> debris. Didn't finish until 3:30am. So much for rushing!
>
> --
> Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
> http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
>
> =3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
> the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
>
--=3D20
Steve
Bath
UK
www.mudslinger.me.uk
Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional!
Lee Love on thu 8 jul 10
On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 1:09 PM, Dolita Dohrman wrot=
=3D
e:
> Hi Lee, I often make up cone packs as I am loading the kiln. =3DA0I used =
my
> clay, set the cones in, and then take my pin tool and riddle it with hole=
=3D
s.
> =3DA0Haven't had one blow up yet. =3DA0You watch though, now that I have =
said=3D
this
> out loud, it will happen to me!
Yeah, famous last words. I was feeling smug just before blowing these up.
I use a cone to make holes in the clay. I put he packs on an
electric kiln that was "preheating" with tthe lid cracked open to dry
them some. It is a new kiln to me. I am used to having ports where
soda is sprayed in over the ports, so you can see how far the flame
goes in when you first start the kiln. I put the knobs the same as
last firing, but the calibration must have been different and I had
flame hitting the ceiling. Was only on a few minutes, but the top
pots were too hot to touch.
Just went in and cracked the door. It is under 400*F..
--
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
Dolita Dohrman on thu 8 jul 10
Hi Lee, I often make up cone packs as I am loading the kiln. I used =3D20
my clay, set the cones in, and then take my pin tool and riddle it =3D20
with holes. Haven't had one blow up yet. You watch though, now that =3D20=
=3D
I have said this out loud, it will happen to me!
Dolita
On Jul 8, 2010, at 12:52 AM, Lee Love wrote:
> I blew up a cone pack last night for the first time, at 11;30pm. Was
> the top pack. Opened kiln, let it cool, and then cleaned up the
> debris. Didn't finish until 3:30am. So much for rushing!
>
> --
> Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
> http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
>
> =3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. =3D
Feel
> the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
Louis Katz on fri 9 jul 10
Vince,
This issue comes up too frequently for me to ignore.
Here are two alternatives.
1. Greg,=3D20
The way I teach my students to make cone packs they don't blow up,
or the way you put it,=3D20
2. "Greg,
They do not blow up if you make them properly. ...See the handout on "Mak=
=3D
ing
Proper Cone Packs" on my website at
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/syllabi-handouts/handouts-info.htm."
When you use "properly" in this context it is interpreted as harsh by me.=
=3D
How others see it is their business. Someone that is asking for help does=
=3D
not need the harshness, they have already admitted there is knowledge the=
=3D
y
need as the approaching you, questioning usually implies at least some
element of humility.=3D20
If people on the forum think you implied something, you at least seemed t=
=3D
o
imply it to them, whether it was your intent or not.=3D20
I teach that there is always a balance between firing speed and thickness=
=3D
,
and wetness and need for practicality. I can see you with a pin tool poki=
=3D
ng
little holes in a cone pack. It is the kind of thing some kinds of people=
=3D
would enjoy. I am not one of those people.
For me porous clay would fit better, the vermiculite thing or lots of san=
=3D
d.
But instead I choose to put my care in how I fire the little cone pack
things. There are lots of kinds of care, Good craftsmanship takes many
forms. I do have students who mix in vermicullite, some who use our waddi=
=3D
ng,
some who do it my way, some who do it your way with all the little holes =
=3D
and
some who blow up cone packs.=3D20
This reminds me of a question at a demonstration in San Angelo I was givi=
=3D
ng
where someone asked, " do you have a problem with 's' cracks?" I said, " =
=3D
no
I don't have a problem with 's' cracks they don't bother me much at all,=
=3D
do
you?"
Where I teach I aim to blow up about 2-5 pieces a semester in the bisque
kiln. If we fire to fast we blow up more. If we fire slower we blow up le=
=3D
ss.
This however takes more time and at some point the added time is not wort=
=3D
h
the saving of a few pieces, two explosions seems a good comprimise. We do=
=3D
not have the luxury for firing of reasonable humidity, everything is give=
=3D
n a
big dose of warming. We stuff bisque kilns full, That said, I would never=
=3D
think of implying that my firing cycles are proper. They tend to be longe=
=3D
r
than others use and are designed to fit what I do here.=3D20
Another school in the state has 24 hour bisque cycles 'load to unload'.
Students there learn a very different way of being. Its fine by me. Both
have value, both are proper.
There are things I am pretty sticky about; like where kiln shelves are pu=
=3D
t,
safety glasses for cleaning shelves and other things. For me these are
practical considerations, I can't get on with business with out them.
In grad school a teacher said, good pots are thin. I made a 50 pound coff=
=3D
ee
cup in response.=3D20
Louis
hopefully making a mold for a cement pot tomorrow, the spray foam one I m=
=3D
ade
last semester was nice and light but was not stable enough.
Karen Sullivan on sat 10 jul 10
I make a wadding clay for my charcoal firings...
And use the same mixture for my cone packs...
So...here's the test...
Mix the following in parts per volume...
1 fireclay
1 epk
1 ball clay
2+ sawdust
Mix with water...wedge so it is
Like clay...make a small batch to test.
Now take a healthy coil/mass of
This material and when firing a kiln,
Use it as a peep hole plug....
Try the same thing with your
Other clay...
The clay as it dries starts
To explode...bits flying out...
The other mixture
Does not blow up...it just
Dries out...stays in place....
No holes needed..no fussing.
What you are testing is how the
Mixture responds to being exposed
To intense heat....
It's a great..inexpensive material
To use when loading a kiln for
Charcoal...which is a tumble stack
With wads holding the pieces in place.
What one wants with charcoal is
To suspend work...with spaces around
The pieces that allows charcoal
That is thrown into the kiln,
and filter through the work.
I make buckets that I store and
Use for various tasks...
It's great for cone packs...
Never have had one blow up...
Useful as the clay in the
Pack shows in the reduction of
The firing...
If I can explain the next bit...
I form the cone pack...and after
The highest cone set in the coil
I form a circle in the clay that
Is formed at the end bit...
When my kiln is at cone 10/11 it
Is sometime difficult to see the
Cones...but the clay is somehow
Still readable...so I can focus on
The clay circle and count towards
The left and read the cones more easily.
Hope someone finds this useful...
karen
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