James Freeman on thu 15 jul 10
I use roll ends of newsprint from our local newspaper to wrap my pots
for shipping or hauling. A few days ago I burned up a large pile of
unsplittable (is that a word?) gnarly maple from an ancient tree that
fell in our last storm, as well as a collapsed twig arbor completely
entwined with wisteria, trumpet vine, and clematis. I also tossed in
a couple of cardboard cores from the newsprint rolls.
As I was sifting the ash yesterday for use in glazes, I came upon the
unmistakable remains of the cardboard cores. This ash was much whiter
than the rest, and had an extremely fine texture like baby powder. I
know that this small quantity of paper ash will not affect the overall
composition of the mass of ash of which it is part in any material
way, but it lead to a question:
Does anyone know if paper ash differs chemically from wood ash, being
that the paper was once a tree, or is it merely a textural difference
resulting from the highly processed nature of the wood pulp that goes
into paper making? Has anyone actually used paper ash in a glaze? If
so, what were your results. I know we have (or had) a paper chemist
on the list, but cannot recall who it was.
And a somewhat related question while we are on this topic. I spent
an entire wonderful day (ahem) mowing some of my pastures and fields.
I believe I could rake up a literal mountain of dry grass (and weeds)
which, if burnt, might yield a usable amount of ash. Does anyone have
any information on or experience with grass ash? Is it even worth my
trouble?
Thanks for any input you can provide.
...James
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice.=3DA0 I
should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
David Hendley on thu 15 jul 10
I have never purposefully made or used paper ash as
a glaze component, but I am well familiar with paper
ash.
First of all, the composition of "paper" is all over the
map. Some paper contains lots of clay and is very
refractory.
I am careful to avoid burning any paper or cardboard
in my wood kiln. It can send large unburned particles
into the kiln. They land on plates and bowls, and can
cause big, unmelted boogers that spoil the pot.
So, my conclusion is that wood pulp, and the resulting
ashes, are nothing like the ashes left over from burning
wood. I would certainly avoid it.
David Hendley
david@farmpots.com
http://www.farmpots.com
----- Original Message -----
Does anyone know if paper ash differs chemically from wood ash, being
that the paper was once a tree, or is it merely a textural difference
resulting from the highly processed nature of the wood pulp that goes
into paper making? Has anyone actually used paper ash in a glaze? If
so, what were your results. I know we have (or had) a paper chemist
on the list, but cannot recall who it was.
Robert Harris on thu 15 jul 10
Paper (and cardboard) has a lot of additives in addition to the fibres
themselves. In the case of white paper a significant amount of Kaolin
is added (for whiteness), we know what the effect of that is. It will
also have a certain amount of TiO2 which will also have an effect.
I am less sure about what additives are in cardboard. I would also
note that wood pulp is "delignified" to make paper. Lignin is in
essence a cross-linking molecule that makes cellulose into wood. The
de-lignification process is chemically very harsh, but I'm not sure
that this would have much of an effect on the resulting
I would also note that flocculents such as Polyaluminium chloride are
added during paper processing in order to clump the fibres together.
Depending on how thoroughly everything is washed this may also affect
the composition of the ash.
As a generalised "guess" I would think that paper ash has far less
group I metal fluxes (i.e. Na, K) than your average wood ash.
I'm certainly not an expert on this so I may have some things rwrong,
but these are my recollections. Hope it helps
Robert
On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 10:38 AM, James Freeman
wrote:
> I use roll ends of newsprint from our local newspaper to wrap my pots
> for shipping or hauling. =3DA0A few days ago I burned up a large pile of
> unsplittable (is that a word?) gnarly maple from an ancient tree that
> fell in our last storm, as well as a collapsed twig arbor completely
> entwined with wisteria, trumpet vine, and clematis. =3DA0I also tossed in
> a couple of cardboard cores from the newsprint rolls.
>
> As I was sifting the ash yesterday for use in glazes, I came upon the
> unmistakable remains of the cardboard cores. =3DA0This ash was much white=
r
> than the rest, and had an extremely fine texture like baby powder. =3DA0I
> know that this small quantity of paper ash will not affect the overall
> composition of the mass of ash of which it is part in any material
> way, but it lead to a question:
>
> Does anyone know if paper ash differs chemically from wood ash, being
> that the paper was once a tree, or is it merely a textural difference
> resulting from the highly processed nature of the wood pulp that goes
> into paper making? =3DA0Has anyone actually used paper ash in a glaze? =
=3DA0I=3D
f
> so, what were your results. =3DA0I know we have (or had) a paper chemist
> on the list, but cannot recall who it was.
>
> And a somewhat related question while we are on this topic. =3DA0I spent
> an entire wonderful day (ahem) mowing some of my pastures and fields.
> I believe I could rake up a literal mountain of dry grass (and weeds)
> which, if burnt, might yield a usable amount of ash. =3DA0Does anyone hav=
e
> any information on or experience with grass ash? =3DA0Is it even worth my
> trouble?
>
> Thanks for any input you can provide.
>
> ...James
>
> James Freeman
>
> "All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice.=3DA0 I
> should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
> -Michel de Montaigne
>
> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
>
--=3D20
----------------------------------------------------------
gary navarre on thu 15 jul 10
Hay Folks,=3D0A=3D0A My limited experience in the paper mills of Kalamazoo =
reca=3D
lls seeing bags of white clay, probably kaolin, and I think it is used to m=
=3D
ake paper white and give it strength, however, I've heard it is not a good=
=3D
idea to let a lot of paper ash into a glaze because it is more refractory.=
=3D
In addition the bleaching process will remove essential mineral colorants =
=3D
from the source plant. The core probably got buried in the other ash and sl=
=3D
owly smoldered down so all the ash including the fines stayed with the batc=
=3D
h. You loose a lot of the ash when burning in an open fire so for burning d=
=3D
own grass trimmings I recommend building a Koie Cooker...=3D0A=3D0Ahttp://p=
ubli=3D
c.fotki.com/GindaUP/ca/ggm/skc/=3D0A=3D0A Last winter I cooked down about 6=
0 ga=3D
llons of plant material into about 5lbs of ash. Some got used in the repair=
=3D
jobs to refire the load but I lost track where most glazes sat the second =
=3D
time around so I don't know the color. I'll probably mix a new test batch i=
=3D
f I do another load but not tonight. What I really need to do is start putt=
=3D
ing up more fuel so we can try once more.=3D0A =3D0AGary Navarre=3D0ANavarr=
e Pott=3D
ery=3D0ANavarre Enterprises=3D0ANorway, Michigan, USA=3D0Ahttp://www.youtub=
e.com/=3D
GindaUP=3D0Ahttp://public.fotki.com/GindaUP/=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A--- On Thu, 7/15=
/10, Jam=3D
es Freeman wrote:=3D0A=3D0A> From: James Fre=
eman=3D
=3D0A> Subject: [Clayart] Nice ash! Paper as=
h =3D
in glaze?=3D0A> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=3D0A> Date: Thursday, July 15,=
201=3D
0, 9:38 AM=3D0A> I use roll ends of newsprint from our=3D0A> local newspape=
r to=3D
wrap my pots=3D0A> for shipping or hauling.=3DA0 A few days ago I burned u=
p a=3D
=3D0A> large pile of=3D0A> unsplittable (is that a word?) gnarly maple from=
an =3D
ancient=3D0A> tree that=3D0A> fell in our last storm, as well as a collapse=
d tw=3D
ig arbor=3D0A> completely=3D0A> entwined with wisteria, trumpet vine, and c=
lema=3D
tis.=3DA0 I=3D0A> also tossed in=3D0A> a couple of cardboard cores from the=
newsp=3D
rint rolls.=3D0A> =3D0A> As I was sifting the ash yesterday for use in glaz=
es, =3D
I=3D0A> came upon the=3D0A> unmistakable remains of the cardboard cores.=3D=
A0 Thi=3D
s ash=3D0A> was much whiter=3D0A> than the rest, and had an extremely fine =
text=3D
ure like baby=3D0A> powder.=3DA0 I=3D0A> know that this small quantity of p=
aper a=3D
sh will not affect=3D0A> the overall=3D0A> composition of the mass of ash o=
f wh=3D
ich it is part in any=3D0A> material=3D0A> way, but it lead to a question:=
=3D0A> =3D
=3D0A> Does anyone know if paper ash differs chemically from wood=3D0A> ash=
, be=3D
ing=3D0A> that the paper was once a tree, or is it merely a textural=3D0A> =
diff=3D
erence=3D0A> resulting from the highly processed nature of the wood pulp=3D=
0A> =3D
that goes=3D0A> into paper making?=3DA0 Has anyone actually used paper ash=
=3D0A> =3D
in a glaze?=3DA0 If=3D0A> so, what were your results.=3DA0 I know we have (=
or had=3D
) a=3D0A> paper chemist=3D0A> on the list, but cannot recall who it was.=3D=
0A> =3D
=3D0A> And a somewhat related question while we are on this=3D0A> topic.=3D=
A0 I s=3D
pent=3D0A> an entire wonderful day (ahem) mowing some of my pastures=3D0A> =
and =3D
fields.=3D0A> I believe I could rake up a literal mountain of dry grass=3D0=
A> (=3D
and weeds)=3D0A> which, if burnt, might yield a usable amount of ash.=3DA0=
=3D0A> =3D
Does anyone have=3D0A> any information on or experience with grass ash?=3DA=
0 Is=3D
=3D0A> it even worth my=3D0A> trouble?=3D0A> =3D0A> Thanks for any input yo=
u can pr=3D
ovide.=3D0A> =3D0A> ...James=3D0A> =3D0A> James Freeman=3D0A> =3D0A> "All I=
say is by w=3D
ay of discourse, and nothing by way of=3D0A> advice.=3DA0 I=3D0A> should no=
t spea=3D
k so boldly if it were my due to be=3D0A> believed."=3D0A> -Michel de Monta=
igne=3D
=3D0A> =3D0A> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com=3D0A> http://www.flickr.com=
/photo=3D
s/jamesfreemanstudio/=3D0A> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources=3D0=
A> =3D
=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A
Eric Hansen on thu 15 jul 10
Sometimes it is kaolin, but that is a surface application on slick or
"coated" stock. You can feel the clay on the coating. The other types of
coating are varnishes or UV cured varnishes. Most uncoated stock such as
bond paper, groundwood uncoated stock or pulp newsprint paper might not hav=
e
kaolin at all, but do have calcium carbonate added. Also, realize that up t=
o
and over than 10% post consumer recycle content is required. I assume that
chemicals used in the bleaching process are also present in the paper. Othe=
r
wise it would be grey or brown in color. I think it is safe to say that
paper ash is higher in Ca and Al2O3 than wood ash. If you want to burn a lo=
t
of paper, enough to make enough glaze to fire a test piece, go down to the
newspaper printer and ask for "butt rolls" - ask for the "dinky" it is 12"
wide and run it through a paper shredder and fill several plastic garbage
sacks with it. My wood ash glazes have a lot of paper ash as well as
calcined chicken bones.
h a n s e n
On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 12:05 PM, Robert Harris wr=
ote:
> Paper (and cardboard) has a lot of additives in addition to the fibres
> themselves. In the case of white paper a significant amount of Kaolin
> is added (for whiteness), we know what the effect of that is. It will
> also have a certain amount of TiO2 which will also have an effect.
>
> I am less sure about what additives are in cardboard. I would also
> note that wood pulp is "delignified" to make paper. Lignin is in
> essence a cross-linking molecule that makes cellulose into wood. The
> de-lignification process is chemically very harsh, but I'm not sure
> that this would have much of an effect on the resulting
>
> I would also note that flocculents such as Polyaluminium chloride are
> added during paper processing in order to clump the fibres together.
> Depending on how thoroughly everything is washed this may also affect
> the composition of the ash.
>
> As a generalised "guess" I would think that paper ash has far less
> group I metal fluxes (i.e. Na, K) than your average wood ash.
>
> I'm certainly not an expert on this so I may have some things rwrong,
> but these are my recollections. Hope it helps
>
> Robert
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 10:38 AM, James Freeman
> wrote:
> > I use roll ends of newsprint from our local newspaper to wrap my pots
> > for shipping or hauling. A few days ago I burned up a large pile of
> > unsplittable (is that a word?) gnarly maple from an ancient tree that
> > fell in our last storm, as well as a collapsed twig arbor completely
> > entwined with wisteria, trumpet vine, and clematis. I also tossed in
> > a couple of cardboard cores from the newsprint rolls.
> >
> > As I was sifting the ash yesterday for use in glazes, I came upon the
> > unmistakable remains of the cardboard cores. This ash was much whiter
> > than the rest, and had an extremely fine texture like baby powder. I
> > know that this small quantity of paper ash will not affect the overall
> > composition of the mass of ash of which it is part in any material
> > way, but it lead to a question:
> >
> > Does anyone know if paper ash differs chemically from wood ash, being
> > that the paper was once a tree, or is it merely a textural difference
> > resulting from the highly processed nature of the wood pulp that goes
> > into paper making? Has anyone actually used paper ash in a glaze? If
> > so, what were your results. I know we have (or had) a paper chemist
> > on the list, but cannot recall who it was.
> >
> > And a somewhat related question while we are on this topic. I spent
> > an entire wonderful day (ahem) mowing some of my pastures and fields.
> > I believe I could rake up a literal mountain of dry grass (and weeds)
> > which, if burnt, might yield a usable amount of ash. Does anyone have
> > any information on or experience with grass ash? Is it even worth my
> > trouble?
> >
> > Thanks for any input you can provide.
> >
> > ...James
> >
> > James Freeman
> >
> > "All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I
> > should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
> > -Michel de Montaigne
> >
> > http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
> > http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
> >
>
>
>
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
--
Eric Alan Hansen
Stonehouse Studio Pottery
Alexandria, Virginia
americanpotter.blogspot.com
thesuddenschool.blogspot.com
hansencookbook.blogspot.com
"To me, human life in all its forms, individual and aggregate, is a
perpetual wonder: the flora of the earth and sea is full of beauty and of
mystery which seeks science to understand; the fauna of land and ocean is
not less wonderful; the world which holds them both, and the great universe
that folds it in on everyside, are still more wonderful, complex, and
attractive to the contemplating mind." - Theodore Parker, minister,
transcendentalist, abolitionist (1810-1860)
KATHI LESUEUR on thu 15 jul 10
On Jul 15, 2010, at 10:38 AM, James Freeman wrote:
> I use roll ends of newsprint from our local newspaper to wrap my pots
> for shipping or hauling. A few days ago I burned up a large pile of
> unsplittable (is that a word?) gnarly maple from an ancient tree that
> fell in our last storm, as well as a collapsed twig arbor completely
> entwined with wisteria, trumpet vine, and clematis. I also tossed in
> a couple of cardboard cores from the newsprint rolls.
>=3D20
> Does anyone know if paper ash differs chemically from wood ash, being
> that the paper was once a tree, or is it merely a textural difference
> resulting from the highly processed nature of the wood pulp that goes
> into paper making? Has anyone actually used paper ash in a glaze? If
> so, what were your results. I know we have (or had) a paper chemist
> on the list, but cannot recall who it was.>>
Paper ( especially printing and writing paper) usuallly has a clay =3D
coating on it so, yes, the ash would be different.
KATHI LESUEUR
http://www.lesueurclaywork.com
>=3D20
>=3D20
James Freeman on fri 16 jul 10
Thanks to everyone for the information you provided.
I was indeed aware that coated paper has kaolin in/on it (though I did
not know that it also contained TiO2). I guess I was not clear, but I
was talking about low grade paper such as newsprint, cardboard, and
kraft paper from bags.
Eric, thanks for the thoughts on the calcium carbonate content. I was
unaware of that. Have you noticed any difference between your ash
glazes with the paper ash and chicken bones and those without?
Steve and Gary, thanks for the thoughts on the grass ash. Has anyone
made a grass ash glaze? If so, did you indeed need extra flux?
Gary, I have looked at your "Koie Cooker" pictures before, but I don't
understand it. It looks like just a tall narrow stack with a grate to
keep the combustibles off of the ash pit, an air hole just above the
grate, then a lid with another short stack atop. Is there anything
more to it than that? I was thinking of just burning the ash in a
new, clean, burn barrel (with the head removed in a SAFE manner!).
What is the advantage of your Koie Cooker over a simple barrel? I
have a dozen or so boxes of new IFBs in the barn, so it would cost me
nothing to build your cooker if there is an advantage.
All the best.
...James
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice.=3DA0 I
should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 6:22 AM, Steve Mills
wrote:
> Paper ash will often contain kaolin; the shinier the paper the more Kaoli=
=3D
n
> is in it. Newsprint has virtually none in my experience. Cardboard will
> probably have a lot of Glue in it.
> Grass ash would I guess be second cousin to straw ash, so might be a hard
> ash. If it's been sprayed it might contain chemical residues which might
> alter its character. I've recently been using a Fruit Wood ash from trees
> which we suspect had been sprayed with Bordeaux Mixture, which in this
> country contains Copper Sulphate.
> The results were spectacularly colourful!
>
> Steve Mills
>
Steve Mills on fri 16 jul 10
Paper ash will often contain kaolin; the shinier the paper the more Kaolin
is in it. Newsprint has virtually none in my experience. Cardboard will
probably have a lot of Glue in it.
Grass ash would I guess be second cousin to straw ash, so might be a hard
ash. If it's been sprayed it might contain chemical residues which might
alter its character. I've recently been using a Fruit Wood ash from trees
which we suspect had been sprayed with Bordeaux Mixture, which in this
country contains Copper Sulphate.
The results were spectacularly colourful!
Steve Mills
On 15 July 2010 15:38, James Freeman wrote:
> I use roll ends of newsprint from our local newspaper to wrap my pots
> for shipping or hauling. A few days ago I burned up a large pile of
> unsplittable (is that a word?) gnarly maple from an ancient tree that
> fell in our last storm, as well as a collapsed twig arbor completely
> entwined with wisteria, trumpet vine, and clematis. I also tossed in
> a couple of cardboard cores from the newsprint rolls.
>
> As I was sifting the ash yesterday for use in glazes, I came upon the
> unmistakable remains of the cardboard cores. This ash was much whiter
> than the rest, and had an extremely fine texture like baby powder. I
> know that this small quantity of paper ash will not affect the overall
> composition of the mass of ash of which it is part in any material
> way, but it lead to a question:
>
> Does anyone know if paper ash differs chemically from wood ash, being
> that the paper was once a tree, or is it merely a textural difference
> resulting from the highly processed nature of the wood pulp that goes
> into paper making? Has anyone actually used paper ash in a glaze? If
> so, what were your results. I know we have (or had) a paper chemist
> on the list, but cannot recall who it was.
>
> And a somewhat related question while we are on this topic. I spent
> an entire wonderful day (ahem) mowing some of my pastures and fields.
> I believe I could rake up a literal mountain of dry grass (and weeds)
> which, if burnt, might yield a usable amount of ash. Does anyone have
> any information on or experience with grass ash? Is it even worth my
> trouble?
>
> Thanks for any input you can provide.
>
> ...James
>
> James Freeman
>
> "All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I
> should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
> -Michel de Montaigne
>
> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
>
--
Steve
Bath
UK
www.mudslinger.me.uk
Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional!
gary navarre on fri 16 jul 10
Ya James, =3D0A=3D0A That's all there is to the Koie Cooker, just a stack o=
f ha=3D
rd brick, and a screen. The advantage Ryoji Koie told us is by slowly smold=
=3D
ering the plant material it would not get so hot to sinter and the draft wo=
=3D
uld be slow so all the ash with minerals would remain inside covered by the=
=3D
material yet to burn. If you use a burn barrel most of the lighter ash wil=
=3D
l be lost to the air. Those smaller particles are useful in helping the ash=
=3D
start melting. =3D0A=3D0A I probably shouldn't blow my fellow students cov=
er b=3D
ut while a few of us were tending the small Koie Cooker Ryoji built Ed Hark=
=3D
ness had a couple of his guys cut some holes in an old metal barrel. They l=
=3D
oaded it with leaves and lit it. As they added more leaves they got out a w=
=3D
eed burner and started torching the lot. Ryoji took one look at that, shook=
=3D
his head snickering and walked away muttering "Slow, slow, slow...". They =
=3D
eventually got a bunch of ash from the barrel but Koie just used what came =
=3D
from the stack of brick we were tending for the small amount of pots he was=
=3D
doing for the workshop.=3D0A=3D0A I don't recommend IFB because you really=
nee=3D
d the mass of hard brick to create and maintain the draft and IFB will ware=
=3D
dust off into the ash as it gets moved around. The stack should be sturdy =
=3D
especially if some of the materials have twigs and stems mixed with the lea=
=3D
f. You should be able to get a couple few dozen hard brick for a hundred or=
=3D
so bucks and be done with it.=3D0A=3D0A Here is a short video of emptying =
a co=3D
oker I used to burn a bunch of brushing scrap ...=3D0A=3D0Ahttp://www.youtu=
be.c=3D
om/watch?v=3D3DMmOgSMV5KBA=3D0A=3D0A This ash had been in there a while and=
picke=3D
d up humidity so it was easy to collect. =3D0A=3D0AGary Navarre=3D0ANavarre=
Potte=3D
ry=3D0ANavarre Enterprises=3D0ANorway, Michigan, USA=3D0Ahttp://www.youtube=
.com/G=3D
indaUP=3D0Ahttp://public.fotki.com/GindaUP/=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A--- On Fri, 7/16/=
10, Jame=3D
s Freeman wrote:=3D0A=3D0A> From: James Free=
man =3D
=3D0A> Subject: Re: [Clayart] Nice ash! Paper=
a=3D
sh in glaze?=3D0A> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=3D0A> Date: Friday, July 16=
, 20=3D
10, 9:27 AM=3D0A> Thanks to everyone for the=3D0A> information you provided=
.=3D0A=3D
=3D0A> Steve and Gary, thanks for the thoughts on the grass=3D0A> ash.=3DA0=
Has a=3D
nyone=3D0A> made a grass ash glaze?=3DA0 If so, did you indeed need=3D0A> e=
xtra f=3D
lux?=3D0A> =3D0A> Gary, I have looked at your "Koie Cooker" pictures before=
,=3D0A=3D
> but I don't=3D0A> understand it.=3DA0 It looks like just a tall narrow st=
ack=3D
=3D0A> with a grate to=3D0A> keep the combustibles off of the ash pit, an a=
ir h=3D
ole just=3D0A> above the=3D0A> grate, then a lid with another short stack a=
top.=3D
=3DA0 Is=3D0A> there anything=3D0A> more to it than that?=3DA0 I was thinki=
ng of ju=3D
st burning=3D0A> the ash in a=3D0A> new, clean, burn barrel (with the head =
remo=3D
ved in a SAFE=3D0A> manner!).=3D0A> What is the advantage of your Koie Cook=
er o=3D
ver a simple=3D0A> barrel?=3DA0 I=3D0A> have a dozen or so boxes of new IFB=
s in t=3D
he barn, so it=3D0A> would cost me=3D0A> nothing to build your cooker if th=
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