Vince Pitelka on sun 29 aug 10
Maggie Furtak wrote:
"I don't know about peer pressure to draw realistically, Vince. I can
remember
being 6 years old and close to tears of frustration as I drew elephant afte=
r
elephant up in my little room, trying to get them to look the way that they
looked in my head. There was no one there to criticize me, or show me a
"right"
(read, "realistic") way to do it. I just wanted to get my mental image of
an
elephant out on paper and I didn't have the skill yet. I got frustrated
because I loved to draw and I really cared. Not because some teacher was
making me feel bad.
Hi Maggie -
There's no way that any of us can identify all the things that have
influenced us, but isn't it possible that someone had already planted in yo=
u
the notion that realistic art is somehow better, and thus that your
frustration was based on that expectation? It would be possible for you to
have absolutely no memory of such an influence, and yet it could have been =
a
very powerful influence. My contention is that without such an influence,
you would have been happy with your own interpretation of an elephant,
whether or not it was particularly realistic. Of course this is all
hypothetical and just conjecture, but it corresponds to what I have observe=
d
in young children making art.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Maggie Furtak on sun 29 aug 10
I don't know about peer pressure to draw realistically, Vince. I can remem=
ber
being 6 years old and close to tears of frustration as I drew elephant afte=
r
elephant up in my little room, trying to get them to look the way that they
looked in my head. There was no one there to criticize me, or show me a "r=
ight"
(read, "realistic") way to do it. I just wanted to get my mental image of =
an
elephant out on paper and I didn't have the skill yet.
But then...I can also remember the breakthrough moment, later that same
afternoon, when I found that if I drew in short little strokes that connect=
ed,
instead of one long smooth line, that I had time in between strokes to look=
at
how the line was developing and correct it as I went, to better match the i=
mage
in my head. Rapture!
It's not that kids are after realism, it's that they are after accurate
self-expression. I drew abstracted things too. I held them to the same
standard. If I drew an abstracted and stylized thing, I wanted it abstract=
ed
and stylized the same way that I pictured it in my mind. Not squidgy and
awkwardly proportioned with a gray smear under it where I tried to erase a =
first
attempt and wore a little smudgy hole in the paper.
I got frustrated because I loved to draw and I really cared. Not because s=
ome
teacher was making me feel bad.
-Maggie
Pate Ceramics
pateceramics.etsy.com
pateceramics.blogspot.com
781-956-1364
517 Fellsway East
Malden, MA 02148
Lee Love on mon 30 aug 10
> Maggie Furtak wrote:
> "I don't know about peer pressure to draw realistically, Vince. =3DA0I ca=
n
> remember being 6 years old and close to tears of frustration as I drew el=
=3D
ephant
>after elephant up in my little room, trying to get them to look the way th=
=3D
at they
> looked in my head.
Developmental psychology was one of the most fascinating aspects of my
degree work.
Our friend who was our guest for our art crawl had a grand
daughter visit. Jean asked her how old she was. She kept putting
four fingers up but knew that was not right. She kept trying to put
3 up, but couldn't keep one down. Finally, she held the stray finger
down with the other hand, with a smile.
What you report about drawing as a child is natural
developmental frustration. It takes years for the synapses to learn
to fire the way we command.
--
=3DA0Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
phil on tue 31 aug 10
Hi Vince, Maggie, all...
As for me...I remember a lot from the time of being in kindergarden, 1st
grade, 2nd
grade, 3rd grade. Home and School...
There was no peer pressure I can recall to draw 'realistically'...there was
no pressure from adults or teachers to draw realistically.
I could not draw 'realistically', and, neither could anyone else I recall
who was that age.
I would have liked to, and, I strove to as time went on, but, at the time, =
I
knew what my drawings represented, as far as the items, beings, landscapes
and so on, and, that is how it was.
These earlier representations had some, or many, or enough-to-me, of the
salient features
of the being or thing or condition I was depicting...arrayed roughly 'as'
things looked
visually sometimes, other times, more like 'floating' mandalas or
gatherings-in-space,
of things, beings, whatever else.
No one's evaluations of my or anyone else's drawings made any impression on
me at the time, as far as how anyone guided or interfered in any way, prais=
e
or lack of
it...mom and dad were mildly positive of any drawings I did, as were the
teachers in school to everyone's...and that was all.
Well, untill one time, when there was some weirdness from parents-teachers,
anyway, in latter 2nd Grade, about some drawings I had done.
I never was able to get to the bottom of that, so I do not know what it was
about.
I do not remember me or other kids ever being especially interested in
anyone else's drawings, nor even being especially interested in their own,
once
done.
We ( me, other kids ) would be interested in the compositions or executions=
,
or in the
experience of drawing probably most of all, but not in the finished drawing=
,
as far as any
savoring or dwelling or wishing to preserve or keep any of it.
Parents kept this sort of stuff...the Children, far as I know, pretty much
never did or would.
It was fun to draw...and, was no more complicated than that.
I hated TV 'Cartoons' and refused to watch all but a few of them, because t=
o
me they were disturbing and unpleasant in every way - the noise, the
frenetic
actions, the way actions and consequences as represented, did not match wha=
t
( in my mind, ) would be
the actions and consequences of the actions in Life, etc.
I liked drawing, and never any troubles there, but, I used to get into
trouble for 'doodling' - drawing in the margains of schoolroom
papers/assigments.
I understood somehow not to 'doodle' in Books or onto other's papers...with
no association of having ever been admonished or told or in trouble for
doing so.
I recall nothing of the phase when young Children grab a pen or pencil
like-a-hammer, and make endless rough circling motion or scratches, and,
never saw anything by my Hand, or anything my parents had saved which looke=
d
like that.
Possibly, if we consider how as adults, our descriptions or acceptances of
descriptions, of so many things/events/conditions, while being meaningful
and unambiguously interpretable to us, do not actually bear a very thorough=
,
detailed or well organized
presentation/representation of the thing or event or condition in
question...we could
understand better, that young Children draw things in a way where the resul=
t
can satisfy well-enough for them, the various abbreviate or elected feature=
s
or
attributes of the thing or being or condition being depicted, even if to
adults it appears to be poorly arranged and superficial or incomplete in
many ways.
Phil
Lv
----- Original Message -----
From: "Maggie Furtak"
>I don't know about peer pressure to draw realistically, Vince. I can
>remember
> being 6 years old and close to tears of frustration as I drew elephant
> after
> elephant up in my little room, trying to get them to look the way that
> they
> looked in my head. There was no one there to criticize me, or show me a
> "right"
> (read, "realistic") way to do it. I just wanted to get my mental image o=
f
> an
> elephant out on paper and I didn't have the skill yet.
>
> But then...I can also remember the breakthrough moment, later that same
> afternoon, when I found that if I drew in short little strokes that
> connected,
> instead of one long smooth line, that I had time in between strokes to
> look at
> how the line was developing and correct it as I went, to better match the
> image
> in my head. Rapture!
>
> It's not that kids are after realism, it's that they are after accurate
> self-expression. I drew abstracted things too. I held them to the same
> standard. If I drew an abstracted and stylized thing, I wanted it
> abstracted
> and stylized the same way that I pictured it in my mind. Not squidgy and
> awkwardly proportioned with a gray smear under it where I tried to erase =
a
> first
> attempt and wore a little smudgy hole in the paper.
>
> I got frustrated because I loved to draw and I really cared. Not because
> some
> teacher was making me feel bad.
>
> -Maggie
> Pate Ceramics
> pateceramics.etsy.com
> pateceramics.blogspot.com
> 781-956-1364
> 517 Fellsway East
> Malden, MA 02148
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