Nancy Spinella on wed 1 sep 10
nd firing fees
The simple answer: You can't.
You can educate people on why using the clay you sell is important, but
unless you keep track of how much you sell versus how much they're producin=
g
(more paperwork), it'll still be hard to catch any offenders.
Have you considered charging per pound of work to fire pots instead? Easier
than measuring cubic inches. Or just charge everyone a flat rate based on
what the average user will do in a given time.
Good luck....
--Nancy
On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 2:10 PM, B. Willis wrote:
> I'm just beginning to give classes and invite experienced potters to leas=
e
> space in my studio. I hate the idea of charging per cubic inch to fire
> pots.....paperwork makes me want scream. I would like to require potters =
to
> purchase clay thru the studio and have the price include glaze and firing
> fees.
> However, humans being what they are, I know some people lie and cheat.
>
> We have a local clay supplier and I'm concerned that some folks will
> purchase
> clay from the supplier, surreptitiously bring it into the studio and I'll
> be
> providing glaze and kiln space for free. Any suggestions on how to preve=
nt
> that?
>
> Belinda
> Austin, TX
>
--
-----------
www.twitter.com/nanspins
www.wix.com/nanspin/pottery
David Woof on thu 2 sep 10
nd fir
Hi Belinda=3D2C=3D20
You won't get away from paperwork=3D2C but I can give you a simple system=
=3D2C =3D
and counsel from experience. =3D20
=3D20
Really "Experienced Potters" have their own space=3D2C and would not consid=
er=3D
an arrangement like you offer.=3D20
=3D20
All others are beginners. Or users with an agenda and dysfunctional person=
=3D
alities who have the experience to cause you grief. =3D20
=3D20
If they can afford to pay for lease space they should instead be buying the=
=3D
ir own wheels and kiln and setting up shop in their own spare bedroom=3D2C =
cl=3D
oset=3D2C kitchen... etc. and taking advanced classes somewhere where profe=
ss=3D
ionals are experienced in dealing with these issues. Get references. Find =
=3D
out if they have gone to three other colleges and community clay centers an=
=3D
d have only bad to say about the instructors=3D2C fellow students=3D2C clay=
and=3D
glaze firing pricing plans.... etc and you have your answer. =3D20
I can hear the rustle of knees twitching and jerking but that is simply bec=
=3D
ause I just hit a raw nerve of hidden truth.=3D20
=3D20
Are you still with me Belinda? Are you now asking 'why am I turning my per=
=3D
sonal creative space over to strangers who will consume my time=3D2C energi=
es=3D
=3D2C and leave me unhappy=3D2C frustrated and broke?' If you are yoursel=
f be=3D
coming an accomplished potter with marketing skills you should be worth $ 1=
=3D
50.00 pr hour for each hour in the studio even when you are pickin your nos=
=3D
e and scratching while thinking what to do next.
So why do you wish to teach? =3D20
=3D20
If teaching is a calling and you feel compelled to give of yourself and sha=
=3D
re your experience and passion for the medium: start with a few raw beginne=
=3D
rs=3D3B sweet older ladies and gentlemen who have dreamed all their life si=
nc=3D
e a high school or college ceramics class of making pots and now have the t=
=3D
ime to immerse themselves. They can be an inspiration. Some may even soon p=
=3D
ush you to keep up!!! Just be firm about setting aside your own space and =
=3D
private work times=3D2C inviolate! (which can actually help one work more c=
on=3D
sistently and efficiently). =3D20
=3D20
Effective teaching is an art and draws much creative energy from the same w=
=3D
ell as your own work. Do you have enough to expend to do both well?
=3D20
Pricing*** Use a linier inch system where say if a pot is 3" wide by 4" tal=
=3D
l=3D2C the measurement is 3+3+4=3D3D10" x $0.25=3D3D $2.50. Measured and pa=
id whe=3D
n presented for (before) firing. Now if they sneak in their own clay or gl=
=3D
azes it matters not unless these are in a different cone range. . A simpl=
=3D
e form with spaces and flow for this calculation will keep the student and =
=3D
yourself on track. If a student wishes to fire an entire kiln load=3D2C wo=
rk=3D
out a flat fee pr firing based on the same considerations in arriving at p=
=3D
ricing by the piece firings.=3D20
=3D20
Someone may attempt to argue price because they want to order a special gla=
=3D
ze or clay you are not providing. Stand firm=3D2C no deals=3D2C let them p=
ay f=3D
or the special stuff themselves or leave=3D2C or you send them packing if t=
he=3D
y push and don't like what you offer. This is where your system breaks dow=
=3D
n if you are not firm. Defend your turf=3D2C set your boundaries. From th=
e =3D
time we first latch on to a nipple and peer up so sweetly into our mother's=
=3D
eyes we are all manipulators seeking personal advantage for survival. For=
=3D
some it just becomes a game of winning. Don't play!!!=3D20
=3D20
Best=3D2C=3D20
=3D20
David Woof
=3D20
=3D20
5a. Question to teachers who sell clay when price includes glaze and fir
Posted by: "B. Willis" ebw78745@GMAIL.COM=3D20
Date: Wed Sep 1=3D2C 2010 1:24 pm ((PDT))
=3D20
I'm just beginning to give classes and invite experienced potters to lease=
=3D
=3D20
space in my studio. I hate the idea of charging per cubic inch to fire=3D20
pots.....paperwork makes me want scream. I would like to require potters to=
=3D
=3D20
purchase clay thru the studio and have the price include glaze and firing f=
=3D
ees.=3D20
However=3D2C humans being what they are=3D2C I know some people lie and che=
at.=3D
=3D20
=3D20
We have a local clay supplier and I'm concerned that some folks will purcha=
=3D
se=3D20
clay from the supplier=3D2C surreptitiously bring it into the studio and I'=
ll=3D
be=3D20
providing glaze and kiln space for free. Any suggestions on how to prevent=
=3D
=3D20
that?
=3D20
Belinda
Austin=3D2C TX
=3D20
=3D20
=3D
B. Willis on thu 2 sep 10
nd fir
The ClayArt community has so very much wisdom. Thank you to all who=3D20
responded to my question, most of which were off list.
After considering the suggestions on how to charge for clay, glazes=3D20
and firings, I've decided to weigh the bone-dry pots just before loading=3D=
20=3D
them into the bisque. The charge per ounce/pound will include all=3D20
aspects of the glazing and firing process. Doing that, I can weigh each=3D=
20=3D
student's work as a batch rather than each pot individually which will=3D20=
=3D
reduce time and paperwork considerably. And I can let students=3D20
purchase their own clay or buy from me and no one will be able to=3D20
cheat. I love it!
I must say, David Woof said some things that have me thinking and re-
thinking the idea of giving classes. I won't say which things specificall=
=3D
y=3D20
because every paragraph dealt with something I need to ponder on=3D20
more but the comment with the most impact was "All others are=3D20
beginners." I think one's entire philosophy about sharing clay could be=3D=
20=3D
based on that one sentence and yet I never thought of it that way=3D20
before. Thanks for your bluntness and honesty, David.
I also received great advice on what to focus on when giving classes,=3D20
what to watch out for and what to avoid entirely. As Nancy Spinella=3D20
said, it looks like there is no way to avoid the paperwork and from=3D20
what others said, it appears paperwork, contracts and rule sheets are=3D20
some of the most important aspects of sharing one's studio.=3D20
I have alot of work ahead of me.
Again, thank you to all.
Belinda
Susan Fox Hirschmann on thu 2 sep 10
nd firing fees
I charge $40 for 25 lb of clay including glazes and firings.=3DA0 If they c=
ho=3D
ose to =3D0Ause Amaco velvets, there is an additional charge of $5.per piec=
e.=3D
=3DA0=3D0AAlso, they may only glaze and =3DA0fire what they create here int=
he st=3D
udio (cannot =3D0Atake things home and make them and bring them in.), as th=
e =3D
latter can get out of =3D0Ahand.=3D0AThen there is no issue with measuring,=
e tc=3D
.=3D0Abest of luck=3D0Asusan=3D0AAnnandale, VA=3D0Awww.potteryart.biz=3D0A=
=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D
=3D0A________________________________=3D0AFrom: Nancy Spinella AIL.=3D
COM>=3D0ATo: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=3D0ASent: Wed, September 1, 2010 3:51=
:18 =3D
PM=3D0ASubject: Re: Question to teachers who sell clay when price includes =
gl=3D
aze and =3D0Afiring fees=3D0A=3D0AThe simple answer: You can't.=3D0A=3D0AYo=
u can educ=3D
ate people on why using the clay you sell is important, but=3D0Aunless you =
ke=3D
ep track of how much you sell versus how much they're producing=3D0A(more p=
ap=3D
erwork), it'll still be hard to catch any offenders.=3D0A=3D0AHave you cons=
ider=3D
ed charging per pound of work to fire pots instead? Easier=3D0Athan measuri=
ng=3D
cubic inches. Or just charge everyone a flat rate based on=3D0Awhat the av=
er=3D
age user will do in a given time.=3D0A=3D0AGood luck....=3D0A--Nancy=3D0A=
=3D0A=3D0AOn W=3D
ed, Sep 1, 2010 at 2:10 PM, B. Willis wrote:=3D0A=3D0A=
> I'=3D
m just beginning to give classes and invite experienced potters to lease=3D=
0A=3D
> space in my studio.=3DA0 I hate the idea of charging per cubic inch to fi=
re=3D
=3D0A> pots.....paperwork makes me want scream. I would like to require pot=
te=3D
rs to=3D0A> purchase clay thru the studio and have the price include glaze =
an=3D
d firing=3D0A> fees.=3D0A> However, humans being what they are, I know some=
peo=3D
ple lie and cheat.=3D0A>=3D0A> We have a local clay supplier and I'm concer=
ned =3D
that some folks will=3D0A> purchase=3D0A> clay from the supplier, surreptit=
ious=3D
ly bring it into the studio and I'll=3D0A> be=3D0A> providing glaze and kil=
n sp=3D
ace for free.=3DA0 Any suggestions on how to prevent=3D0A> that?=3D0A>=3D0A=
> Belind=3D
a=3D0A> Austin, TX=3D0A>=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A--=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A-----------=3D=
0Awww.twitter.com/na=3D
nspins=3D0Awww.wix.com/nanspin/pottery=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A
David Woof on sat 4 sep 10
nd
Belinda=3D2C =3D20
I write from my experience. You are welcome.
Now I would like to address this "Clayart community" you speak of=3D3B
=3D20
Folks what community is Belinda talking about when most of the responses to=
=3D
Belinda as she says=3D2C were off list?
=3D20
Our open posting to list is the only tangible evidence of a community Claya=
=3D
rt has. =3D20
Other people have need of the informational exchanges made with the origina=
=3D
l poster of a question. =3D20
Who are these who don't believe in their own advice enough to put it out th=
=3D
ere for the world to see and examine? Is this the reason for the off list p=
=3D
osting?
The scrutiny of our peers leads to a more well thought introspection and pr=
=3D
oving before opening ourselves to possible challenges. We used to speak of=
=3D
Clayart as an online=3D2C ongoing cyber university. =3D20
I'd like to think that all remember sitting in a lecture hall discussion at=
=3D
a full on University and as a matter of course one quickly anticipates and=
=3D
prepares a defense before jumping in to state a position. Count on a chall=
=3D
enge. In that arena sometimes you get shot out of the water but no harm=3D=
2C=3D
you are honing your logic and critical thinking skills and hopefully a bal=
=3D
anced humility and willingness to learn and be corrected.
=3D20
It is easy to note who has that ability and it is a pleasure to read and co=
=3D
nsider their posts.
=3D20
David Woof
________________________________
=3D20
Re: Question to teachers who sell clay when price includes glaze and
Posted by: "B. Willis" ebw78745@GMAIL.COM=3D20
Date: Fri Sep 3=3D2C 2010 9:25 am ((PDT))
=3D20
The ClayArt community has so very much wisdom. Thank you to all who=3D20
responded to my question=3D2C most of which were off list.
=3D20
=3D
| |
|
