Robert Harris on mon 4 oct 10
I may be missing something, but how is this really different from a
jigger and jolley?
R
On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 2:37 PM, John Rodgers wrote:
> =3DA0**Folks, this is an absolutely fascinating web site. Have a look.
> Worth visiting.
>
> http://www.sintougei.com/
>
> John
>
> --
> John Rodgers
> Clayartist and Moldmaker
> 88'GL VW Bus Driver
> Chelsea, AL
> Http://www.moldhaus.com
>
--=3D20
----------------------------------------------------------
John Rodgers on mon 4 oct 10
**Folks, this is an absolutely fascinating web site. Have a look.
Worth visiting.
http://www.sintougei.com/
John
--
John Rodgers
Clayartist and Moldmaker
88'GL VW Bus Driver
Chelsea, AL
Http://www.moldhaus.com
Larry Kruzan on tue 5 oct 10
I'd give him a little leeway and say it may be a translation error but it
does sound that way. Not new, not his "invention". I'm left asking "Why??"
for such small parts, little technique is required. If a crippled up old ma=
n
like me can learn to throw at 45, so should a young, healthy person.
Larry Kruzan
Lost Creek Pottery
www.lostcreekpottery.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Randall Moody
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 7:17 AM
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Akira Yamada - inventor of the FP wheel
Maybe I am misunderstanding but is this guy actually trying to pass off the
ages old jiggering method as something new? Is he attempting to say that he
invented it?
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of John Rodgers
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 2:37 PM
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Akira Yamada - inventor of the FP wheel
**Folks, this is an absolutely fascinating web site. Have a look.
Worth visiting.
http://www.sintougei.com/
John
--
John Rodgers
Clayartist and Moldmaker
88'GL VW Bus Driver
Chelsea, AL
Http://www.moldhaus.com
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
(Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16010)
http://www.pctools.com/
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
John Rodgers on tue 5 oct 10
I don't think so. What he has invented is a simple centerline system
that can be attached to a potters wheel. What I got is that he is
talking about arriving at finely finished work without having to spend
years and years developing the kinesthetic senses in the muscles to be
able to produce good work by hand throwing. He spends quite a bit of
time delving into that for the reader quoting time frames in reaching
various levels of skill as a potter on a wheel - becoming a good
"workman" as he calls them. He presents a short cut as it were, for
those who don't have the time to travel that particular road or who are
unable physically to travel that road. And he provides a different way
to get the jiggering done - one in which a person can use the potters
wheel in a much easier and more manageable manner for a small scale
operation. This is not about volume production, it is about making
fewer, yet fine pieces, in a process that allows the individual to
perform all the processes. Small operations are the key. I've done a lot
of jiggering and jollying, and for volume production, you need the
bigger production machinery and three people working as a team on the
machine to really have efficiency and high volume output - plus - you
have to deal with the high cost of the machinery. For ceramic "Art" as
he describes, such a setup is not needed. A more simple, lest costly way
is presented. Even today, I do some jiggering, as it integrates well
into my own total range of operations - mold making, slip casting, hand
building, throwing on the wheel, and jiggering. My current jiggering
system is a wheel mount setup from Axner. But it is a PITA. Yamada's
method is in fact, jiggering, but it is more simple and more flexible in
my estimation. I like what I have seen here. I hope there are those of
us here who will take this idea and run with it.
And no- this IS NOT hand made work- but it is hand crafted work - and
can be and often is as beautiful as any made any other way. After all,
beauty and value is in the eye of the beholder. ( Hey Vince, are you
reading?? ~(;<)=3D
John
John Rodgers
Clayartist and Moldmaker
88'GL VW Bus Driver
Chelsea, AL
Http://www.moldhaus.com
On 10/5/2010 7:17 AM, Randall Moody wrote:
> Maybe I am misunderstanding but is this guy actually trying to pass off t=
he
> ages old jiggering method as something new? Is he attempting to say that =
he
> invented it?
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of John Rodgers
> Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 2:37 PM
> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Akira Yamada - inventor of the FP wheel
>
> **Folks, this is an absolutely fascinating web site. Have a look.
> Worth visiting.
>
> http://www.sintougei.com/
>
> John
>
> --
> John Rodgers
> Clayartist and Moldmaker
> 88'GL VW Bus Driver
> Chelsea, AL
> Http://www.moldhaus.com
>
>
>
Larry Kruzan on tue 5 oct 10
Randall, I have no idea why you would even attempt to engage this cartoon o=
f
a cartoon ass in any meaningful discussion. He challenges you by insulting
our land as being a land of "knuckle dragger" culture?????????
Lee - drag your hide onto the first jet that will allow you to board and
head to land of "The rising Sun" - you can be happy there, although they
might not let you in - I've heard they are ever so more picky than WE are
about everything, more civilized, have better art, love pottery more, etc.,
etc., - so you just might not meet THEIR standards for admission - could
that be why you are still here???? Heaven knows we won't miss your sorry
hide. What an incredibly narrow, one dimensional personality you are.
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Randall Moody
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 4:30 PM
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Akira Yamada - inventor of the FP wheel
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 3:18 PM, Lee Love wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 1:46 PM, Randall Moody
> wrote:
>
> > so? Using sticks
>
> I think knuckle dragger style of eating is more common
> where you live, to judge by your lack of cultural respect. ;^)
>
> --
> Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
> http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
>
> "Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
> the artistry moving through and be silent." --Rumi
>
Interesting that you are the one that resorted to a culturally prejudiced
remark. All I did was state fact. They do, in fact, eat with sticks. There
is nothing bigoted, racist nor prejudice about a simple statement of fact. =
I
do respect much of Japanese culture but there are many things about them
that I do not respect. It is the same with all cultures. There is good and
bad. To turn a blind eye to one or the other is ignorant. But I digress.
--
Randall in Atlanta
http://wrandallmoody.com
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
(Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16000)
http://www.pctools.com/
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Randall Moody on tue 5 oct 10
Maybe I am misunderstanding but is this guy actually trying to pass off the
ages old jiggering method as something new? Is he attempting to say that he
invented it?
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of John Rodgers
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 2:37 PM
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Akira Yamada - inventor of the FP wheel
**Folks, this is an absolutely fascinating web site. Have a look.
Worth visiting.
http://www.sintougei.com/
John
--
John Rodgers
Clayartist and Moldmaker
88'GL VW Bus Driver
Chelsea, AL
Http://www.moldhaus.com
Philip Poburka on tue 5 oct 10
Yes...but, sometimes...they-eat-with-Spoon, or drink-from-Bowl...or use
Fingers.
When they eat Sandwiches, I imagine they merely hold the Sandwich and take
bites.
Sometimes I eat-with-Sticks...sometimes I eat-with-Spoon.
Sometimes I eat with no-sticks, no-Spoon, using fingers instead.
Sometimes I drink from Soup Bowl directly.
Silverware is still 'Sticks'...but metal Sticks, so...
Oye...
Now I want to hear that old favorite, 'We like de Moon' -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DYk-ok-Qfs70
Love,
Phil
Lv
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randall Moody"
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 3:18 PM, Lee Love wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 1:46 PM, Randall Moody
> wrote:
>
> > so? Using sticks
>
> I think knuckle dragger style of eating is more common
> where you live, to judge by your lack of cultural respect. ;^)
>
> --
> Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
> http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
>
> "Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
> the artistry moving through and be silent." --Rumi
>
Interesting that you are the one that resorted to a culturally prejudiced
remark. All I did was state fact. They do, in fact, eat with sticks. There
is nothing bigoted, racist nor prejudice about a simple statement of fact. =
I
do respect much of Japanese culture but there are many things about them
that I do not respect. It is the same with all cultures. There is good and
bad. To turn a blind eye to one or the other is ignorant. But I digress.
--
Randall in Atlanta
http://wrandallmoody.com
KATHI LESUEUR on tue 5 oct 10
On Oct 4, 2010, at 2:37 PM, John Rodgers wrote:
> **Folks, this is an absolutely fascinating web site. Have a look.
> Worth visiting.
>=3D20
> http://www.sintougei.com/
>=3D20
> John
>=3D20
> --
> John Rodgers
> Clayartist and Moldmaker
> 88'GL VW Bus Driver
> Chelsea, AL
> Http://www.moldhaus.com
>=3D20
I don't see anything new here. It looks like a variation on a =3D
jigger/jolly machine.=3D20
KATHI LESUEUR
http://www.lesueurclaywork.com
Lee Love on tue 5 oct 10
Jiggering is very common for commercial ware in Japan.
--
=3DA0Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
Randall Moody on tue 5 oct 10
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Lee Love wrote:
> Jiggering is very common for commercial ware in Japan.
>
> --
> Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
> http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
>
> =3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
> the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
>
so? Using sticks to eat with is common there also.
--=3D20
Randall in Atlanta
http://wrandallmoody.com
Pottery by John on tue 5 oct 10
Maybe I could buy up a fleet of those machines as rental units and people
can make their own dinnerware sets, then take them to the paint and fire
places for final work.
I admire the inventor's innovation in solving his own problem with the top
and bottom of his woven pots. I can't imagine sitting and doing that all
day, however.
John Lowes
Sandy Springs, Georgia
http://wynhillpottery.weebly.com/
Lee Love on tue 5 oct 10
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 10:54 AM, John Rodgers wrote:
> that can be attached to a potters wheel. What I got =3DA0is that he is
> talking about arriving at finely finished work without having to spend
> years and years developing the kinesthetic senses in the muscles to be
> able to produce good work by hand throwing.
Why don't he just slipcast?
--
=3DA0Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
Lee Love on tue 5 oct 10
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 1:46 PM, Randall Moody wro=
=3D
te:
> so? Using sticks
I think knuckle dragger style of eating is more common
where you live, to judge by your lack of cultural respect. ;^)
--
=3DA0Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
Lee Love on tue 5 oct 10
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 5:06 PM, Eric Hansen
wrote:
> 4: Is the potter's wheel necessary to make the work?
> The training of the potter's wheel of three years cannot be endured.
> They are big problems that the current ceramic art has."
This must have been a Google translation or something.
--
=3DA0Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
Eric Hansen on tue 5 oct 10
Jigger and Jolley is not any different than any other wheel except
that a mould is used instead of a flat wheel head sometimes, and the
rib has a fixed pivoting attachment to the wheel frame.
A potters wheel is a machine - wheel thrown pots are machine made
pots. If you want truly hand made pots use only your hands.
h a n s e n
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 6:06 AM, KATHI LESUEUR w=
rote:
> On Oct 4, 2010, at 2:37 PM, John Rodgers wrote:
>
>> **Folks, this is an absolutely fascinating web site. Have a look.
>> Worth visiting.
>>
>> http://www.sintougei.com/
>>
>> John
>>
>> --
>> John Rodgers
>> Clayartist and Moldmaker
>> 88'GL VW Bus Driver
>> Chelsea, AL
>> Http://www.moldhaus.com
>>
>
>
> I don't see anything new here. It looks like a variation on a jigger/joll=
y machine.
>
> KATHI LESUEUR
> http://www.lesueurclaywork.com
>
--
Eric Alan Hansen
Stonehouse Studio Pottery
Alexandria, Virginia
americanpotter.blogspot.com
thesuddenschool.blogspot.com
hansencookbook.blogspot.com
"To me, human life in all its forms, individual and aggregate, is a
perpetual wonder: the flora of the earth and sea is full of beauty and
of mystery which seeks science to understand; the fauna of land and
ocean is not less wonderful; the world which holds them both, and the
great universe that folds it in on everyside, are still more
wonderful, complex, and attractive to the contemplating mind." -
Theodore Parker, minister, transcendentalist, abolitionist (1810-1860)
Eric Hansen on tue 5 oct 10
You gotta love this however:
"1: I cannot make the teacup yet though I passed to the ceramic art
classroom for three years.
2: I want to present the saucer. However, it is not possible to make it yet=
=3D
.
3: The same one cannot be done.
Even if the tidy one can be done, it is not possible to present it
because it is regrettable.
The one not tidy cannot be presented because it is shameful.
4: Is the potter's wheel necessary to make the work?
The training of the potter's wheel of three years cannot be endured.
They are big problems that the current ceramic art has."
How true, how true...
h a n s e n
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Lee Love wrote:
> Jiggering is very common for commercial ware in Japan.
>
> --
> =3DA0Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
> http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
>
> =3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
> the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
>
--=3D20
Eric Alan Hansen
Stonehouse Studio Pottery
Alexandria, Virginia
americanpotter.blogspot.com
thesuddenschool.blogspot.com
hansencookbook.blogspot.com
"To me, human life in all its forms, individual and aggregate, is a
perpetual wonder: the flora of the earth and sea is full of beauty and
of mystery which seeks science to understand; the fauna of land and
ocean is not less wonderful; the world which holds them both, and the
great universe that folds it in on everyside, are still more
wonderful, complex, and attractive to the contemplating mind." -
Theodore Parker, minister, transcendentalist, abolitionist (1810-1860)
Randall Moody on tue 5 oct 10
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 3:18 PM, Lee Love wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 1:46 PM, Randall Moody
> wrote:
>
> > so? Using sticks
>
> I think knuckle dragger style of eating is more common
> where you live, to judge by your lack of cultural respect. ;^)
>
> --
> Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
> http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
>
> =3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
> the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
>
Interesting that you are the one that resorted to a culturally prejudiced
remark. All I did was state fact. They do, in fact, eat with sticks. There
is nothing bigoted, racist nor prejudice about a simple statement of fact. =
=3D
I
do respect much of Japanese culture but there are many things about them
that I do not respect. It is the same with all cultures. There is good and
bad. To turn a blind eye to one or the other is ignorant. But I digress.
--=3D20
Randall in Atlanta
http://wrandallmoody.com
Randall Moody on tue 5 oct 10
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 7:14 PM, Lee Love wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 5:06 PM, Eric Hansen
> wrote:
>
> > 4: Is the potter's wheel necessary to make the work?
> > The training of the potter's wheel of three years cannot be endured.
> > They are big problems that the current ceramic art has."
>
> This must have been a Google translation or something.
>
>
> --
> Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
> http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
>
> =3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
> the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
>
Even if a poor translation it is still crap.
--=3D20
Randall in Atlanta
http://wrandallmoody.com
Clyde Tullis on wed 6 oct 10
I built a jigger/jolley system one winter after a year of throwing thousa=
=3D
nds
of bird feeders and starting to enjoy the beginnings of Carpal Tunnel. I
looked into Radcliff and another one and was discouraged at the money I
would have to put down for such a simple machine. I visited a couple frie=
=3D
nds
that had systems both new and antique , got out Harry Davis's book, went =
=3D
to
the scrap yard and welded one together. Mounted it on an old Brent CXC.=3D=
20=3D
Made case molds, masters and working molds. Learned about plaster , what
makes jigger clay jigger clay and some interesting things about how you c=
=3D
an
go to college and get a degree and turn yourself into a factory worker. I=
=3D
also had the satisfaction of knowing that with 4 hours in the studio I co=
=3D
uld
make $500 in finished (glazed and ready for sale) work.
I think his turn on this is pretty cool.
Lee Love on wed 6 oct 10
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 9:51 PM, Larry Kruzan wro=
=3D
te:
> a cartoon ass in any meaningful discussion. He challenges you by insultin=
=3D
g
> our land as being a land of "knuckle dragger" culture?????????
I wasn't referring to "our culture." I was referring to
parochial, provincial attitude that has no respect for cultures other
than their own. The "sticks" comment exhibits such an attitude.
America is great because of its diversity. Because of this value, we
are one of the greatest countries in history. But it has been a long
struggle against small minded thinking.
Another mark of "knuckle dragger" thinking, is to tell folks to
"go away" when you don't like their opinion. I'd never tell you
that Larry. There is room for you too. That is the difference
between our attitudes.
But look around. Other cultures will help you appreciate your own
culture more deeply.
--
=3DA0Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
John Rodgers on wed 6 oct 10
Clyde,
Glad you stepped to the bar and offered positive input. I am of the same
view - as often I have said. As we age, and things happen, to stay with
clay, we often need to modify our approach. At 71, I can assure you I
cannot do now what I was even able to do 10 years ago. Jiggering allows
me to continue when otherwise I might not be able to. Old bones, old
joints, old ligaments doth protest when pressed by a long day of
throwing, so I alternate activities by using the jigger. Does it change
the value of my work. Not at all. Folks still buy it for it's beauty and
utility. And, they take home a bit of the artist as well, which means a
lot.
John
John Rodgers
Clayartist and Moldmaker
88'GL VW Bus Driver
Chelsea, AL
Http://www.moldhaus.com
On 10/6/2010 10:28 AM, Clyde Tullis wrote:
> I built a jigger/jolley system one winter after a year of throwing thousa=
nds
> of bird feeders and starting to enjoy the beginnings of Carpal Tunnel. I
> looked into Radcliff and another one and was discouraged at the money I
> would have to put down for such a simple machine. I visited a couple frie=
nds
> that had systems both new and antique , got out Harry Davis's book, went =
to
> the scrap yard and welded one together. Mounted it on an old Brent CXC.
> Made case molds, masters and working molds. Learned about plaster , what
> makes jigger clay jigger clay and some interesting things about how you c=
an
> go to college and get a degree and turn yourself into a factory worker. I
> also had the satisfaction of knowing that with 4 hours in the studio I co=
uld
> make $500 in finished (glazed and ready for sale) work.
>
> I think his turn on this is pretty cool.
>
>
Lee Love on wed 6 oct 10
Also, there is nothing wrong with using a jigger. I didn't see
anything in the video the convince me that you need to use one for
little things like in the video.
As I was saying, they make extensive use of jiggers in factory
ware in Japan. Much more than we do here. Making plates and platters
with a jigger makes sense. Primarily, the main way to tell a jiggered
platter from a skillful hand thrown one, besides the uniformity (which
can be arrived at with skill), is by the foot. You have to have a
straight foot to pull out of the mold. But, you can make an
oversized foot and then take a couple seconds to change it after the
piece comes out of the mold.
I always measured my platters against the Tsukamoto Factory
platters, which were all jigger made and glaze trailed glazed with a
special apparatus. They could sell their platters for $85.00 where
I charged $225.00 for the same sized platters. I had to provide
something that thise factory platters did not, for them to be
successful.
--
=3DA0Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
Lee Love on wed 6 oct 10
On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 2:44 PM, John Rodgers wrote:
> =3DA0Clyde,
>
> Glad you stepped to the bar and offered positive input. I am of the same
> view - as often I have said. As we age, and things happen, to stay with
> clay, we often need to modify our approach. At 71, I can assure you I
> cannot do now what I was even able to do 10 years ago.
I am fortunate in that I have the example of my teacher, who at 88,
went out with his boots on. (He had a stroke the end of his last
noborigama firing. And Warren MacKenzie is 86. When I bought the
Woodley treadle wheel from him. I borrowed a friend's Hyundai 4X4 to
haul it home with. Warren and I were horsing it into the back of the
Hyundai when we got stuck. We were holding the flywheel/heavy end,
and he told me to stand back. He took the whole weigh and got it in
by himself.
Before silicosis, Warren fired his large kiln once a month. He
did the work of 4 20 year olds. Now, he fires it ever 6 weeks and
has slowed down to doing the work of 2 40 year olds.
We have to get smarter as we age, but taking care of your
body and thinking smarter can extend our working lifespan.
--
=3DA0Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
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