Lili Krakowski on thu 7 oct 10
While ClayArt was having a go-around about opening blazing hot kilns, =3D
and fools vs, cowards, I saw part of a TV film about climbers on Mt =3D
Everest.=3D20
I could endure only a moment of it.
What I saw was this: blackest night and a roped-together group of =3D
climbers sought refuge in a cave. They found a man dressed in all the =3D
special clothing required for these expeditions. He was crouched against =
=3D
a wall, knees under his chin, hands clasped across his chest, and his =3D
handsome nose--the only visible =3DE2=3D80=3D9Cflesh=3DE2=3D80=3D9D --was b=
lack.
A climber approached the man and said breath still was coming out of =3D
the frozen body, but essentially the man was dead. The speaker added =3D
that all along the mountain there were a great many corpses, frozen onto =
=3D
the mountain, un-salvageable=3DE2=3D80=3DA6 there =3DE2=3D80=3D9Cforever=3D=
E2=3D80=3D9D. =3D
He also told us there was no way they could get that dying man =3D
out=3DE2=3D80=3DA6Breaths or not, he was a goner.
Last Summer, by coincidence I looked up the cost of =3DE2=3D80=3D9C conquer=
ing =3D
Everest=3DE2=3D80=3D9D. With gear, tsaskes, and training, plus the cost of =
the =3D
expedition itself, the cost is at least $45,000.=3D20
None of these climbers is doing research . They are doing it for =3D
=3DE2=3D80=3D9Cadventure=3DE2=3D80=3D9D and to be able to say =3DE2=3D80=3D=
9CI did =3D
it.=3DE2=3D80=3D9D They consider such a climb a thing of merit, to be admir=
ed, =3D
possibly envied.
Turning to the Hikidashi site given on ClayArt by a poster who =3D
suggested, in crudest form, I was a coward , I saw a man dressed in =3D
special gear, up close to the open white hot 4 x 4 front of a kiln. He =3D
apparently was taking out a small pot. This was no careful pulling out =3D
of a Buller ring through a peephole!
The pot--torn from the kiln and plunged into cold water--was a tea bowl. =
=3D
The glaze was a black Shino. And to my eye it was a tea bowl in the =3D
deliberately clumsy, rustic style Japanese connoisseurs cherish.
Do I cherish it? No. My =3DE2=3D80=3D9Crecherche des temps perdus=3DE2=3D80=
=3D9D =3D
involves Simplicity, not affected rusticity. Do I think that after much =3D
training afficionados love, just love it, and pay $200 for such a cup? =3D
Sure.
Does any untrained person select this Hikidashi cup over another shiny =3D
black cup? Doubt it.
And this is what bothers me. Daily life calls for endless courage. The =3D
poster who wanted us to =3DE2=3D80=3D9Cbutch up=3DE2=3D80=3D9D has no notio=
n of =3D
courage if he thinks it some male quality. Total sexist nonsense!
Explain to me this =3DE2=3D80=3D9Ccult=3DE2=3D80=3D9D of courting death, bu=
rns, =3D
disaster. Why is a person who risks blindness and crippling burns for a =3D
little black bowl to be admired, emulated? Why does a man spend a =3D
fortune to risk dying in the corner of a cave?
The Germans valued university dueling fraternities where young men went =3D
at each other with full protective gear, except for their heads-- in =3D
order to get cuts on their faces (which, =3DE2=3D80=3D9Cdoctored=3DE2=3D80=
=3D9C, =3D
insured lifelong scars) --proving they were an academic elite!
"Running with the bulls" in Pamplona to honor St Fermin is a big =3D
deal...but --pace St. F-- it probably is the remains of an ancient =3D
bullworship --and has a weak, lame, excuse.=3D20
I have been told Incas expected young men to bring a condor to a =3D
prospective father in law. This is idiocy--but it would establish the =3D
suitor was serious about the girl, that he was strong and agile. But =3D
what do Everest or Hikidashi prove?
There may have been a time when it was necessary to pull pots out of =3D
white hot kilns. Probably the original hikidashis were the =3D
Buller=3DE2=3D80=3D99s rings of their day. But is there any reason, any sen=
se, =3D
any purpose in encouraging this sort of daring do? The site given me was =
=3D
that of a university, no less.=3D20
Do death/mutilation defying activities do anything except enrich =3D
undertakers?
Please explain why we should respect, even admire, this as artistic =3D
achievement? WHY is it included in college courses?
=3DE3=3D80=3D80
=3DE3=3D80=3D80
=3DE3=3D80=3D80
=3DE3=3D80=3D80
=3DE3=3D80=3D80
=3DE3=3D80=3D80
Lili Krakowski
Be of good courage
Martin Rice on thu 7 oct 10
I really had to laugh when I read this post from Lily where she uses =3D
mountain climbing as one of her examples of foolhardy activities. When I =
=3D
was a boy and later a young man, and I'd tell my mother about some =3D
stupid thing I wanted to do, she'd always say to me (in Yiddish): =3D
"You're crazy? Go climb a mountain," which for her was the height of =3D
insanity.
Martin
Signal Mountain, TN
On Oct 7, 2010, at 9:17 AM, Lili Krakowski wrote:
> While ClayArt was having a go-around about opening blazing hot kilns, =3D
and fools vs, cowards, I saw part of a TV film about climbers on Mt =3D
Everest.=3D20
>=3D20
> I could endure only a moment of it.
>=3D20
> What I saw was this: blackest night and a roped-together group of =3D
climbers sought refuge in a cave. They found a man dressed in all the =3D
special clothing required for these expeditions. He was crouched against =
=3D
a wall, knees under his chin, hands clasped across his chest, and his =3D
handsome nose--the only visible =3D93flesh=3D94 --was black.
Lee Love on thu 7 oct 10
On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Martin Rice wrote:
> I really had to laugh when I read this post from Lily where she uses moun=
=3D
tain climbing as
> one of her examples of foolhardy activities.
If you've never lived in the mountains, you can't understand the
necessity of climbing them. You might have to, to go to school or
get groceries.
--
=3DA0Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
Robert Harris on thu 7 oct 10
I would say that there is some difference between Everest and Hikidashi.
With Everest it is a personal quest to conquer the highest mountain in
the world. You may call this arrogance, but above all it is a personal
quest done to prove something to oneself. There is a famous quote by
George Mallory when asked why he wanted to climb Everest he said
"Because it is there".
Hikidashi may have a similar reason to make his pots. What this does
not necessarily excuse is the regard in which it is held by
connoisseurs. While I would hesitate to say that Hikidashi has no
clothes (since I cannot speak for his mindset), perhaps we can observe
that his adulants are busy removing theirs.
Robert
Randall Moody on thu 7 oct 10
On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 2:54 PM, Lee Love wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Martin Rice wrote:
> > I really had to laugh when I read this post from Lily where she uses
> mountain climbing as
> > one of her examples of foolhardy activities.
>
> If you've never lived in the mountains, you can't understand the
> necessity of climbing them. You might have to, to go to school or
> get groceries.
>
>
> --
> Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
> http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
>
> =3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
> the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
>
Some people want to live quiet safe little lives with not a trace of
challenge or excitement. Others wish to tweak the bulls ears. Both are
equally valid ways of looking at life.
(I didn't know there was a grocery store on Everest. Not a lot of foot
traffic I am guessing.)
(BTW the "butch up" wasn't meant to be "sexist" but I guess if you are
looking for something hard enough you will find it.)
--=3D20
Randall in Atlanta
http://wrandallmoody.com
Elizabeth Priddy on fri 8 oct 10
As a woman working in pottery for 28 years now, I can tell you that this is=
a male dominated industry and profession. As soon as you hit a certain le=
vel the whole field goes male.
And the reason is the previous generation, not the talent of men dominating=
the talent of women in clay. It is because the people at the top are the =
ones that got there first and endured. And starting 40 years ago, about th=
e time it takes to become an icon, you would have begun your career in 1970=
and passed through women's liberation and evolution as professionals en ma=
sse.
So women are becoming as powerful as they are in public and in professional=
realms. They are starting to become the hirers and administrators as thei=
r career arcs reach the critical 30 year marks where real authority and pow=
er emerge.
So as a gender, we have already butched up, so much so in the general gist =
of the world of clay and potters over the last 50 years, that having someon=
e tell us to do so is irksome, tone-deaf, and an indicator that the speaker=
has no understanding of their audience or their experience of the world.
In regular life, I own all of my decisions and take responsibility for myse=
lf and my life.
In clay life, I am mindful of my history and the potential for victories in=
inclusion and progress to fall away with the casual erosion of consciousne=
ss, taking our strides for granted.
Cleaning up sexist language, manners of address, casual disrespect...all of=
that is relevant to clay.
Women are listening to whether clay and the profession is a career where we=
are respected and treated as equals. Using common vernacular for our sexu=
al organs in casual speech, telling us to butch up when we disagree vocally=
, circling the ol boys club wagons when we mention anything regarding this =
whole subject...all of that is how the establishment stays established. An=
d I can only imagine much of that is defensive posturing and partly a brava=
do coming from latent guilt.
If the everyday environment is or reverts to the bullshit level I had to de=
al with 25 years ago when I got started, women who might love clay and want=
to be involved might just choose something else where being female is not =
a liability. And we all lose. I stayed in because I love it and I was wil=
ling to deal with the all male, hostile environment. I butched up and beat=
the assholes at their own game. Because that was what it took 25 years ago=
. It sucked. Why does it still have to be like that for our clay daughters=
? Why should they experience a hostile work environment because they were =
born a certain gender?
There are a dozen women on this list that I think are better than Don Reitz=
, Paul Soldner, Ron Myers, and a dozen other men whose names you all know. =
But they have not hit the 40 year mark. They are getting there, some of t=
hem are already there. When I got started, there were five women potters t=
hat I had ever heard of: Toshiko Taekaezu, Cynthis Bringle, Jane Pizer, Ne=
ll Cole Graves, and Judy Chicago.
The women wives of famous potters, like Picasso, are unsung workers that ha=
ve made clay part of the human experience without ever being cited as even =
players in the game. And non-western potters? whew.
Today, I can name dozens and still not touch the surface. And I hope that =
in the future, women interested in clay and reading forums like clayart and=
reading our professional journals can see themselves as equal partners in =
the culture of clay, and not the butts of blonde jokes, pussies, and people=
in need of butching up to play with the boys.
If you have a mother, a sister, a daughter, a mentor, or a favorite potter,=
listen to how what you say either contributes to their inclusion in this c=
lay world or whether it alienates them from it.
The damage of millenia of being kept out of professions and marginalized is=
now our responsibility to clean up and make right. Every single one of us=
, all the time.
And I will gladly keep reminding people that Lili, and many of the women wh=
o wrote me off list to thank me for not standing down, care and notice what=
you say and how you say it. It indicates your unconscious bias and sexist=
assumptions when you don't even realize that you might be perceived as a c=
lueless relic of a damaged generation. You may even be an awesome friend, =
father, and potter. But that doesn't relieve you of your responsibility to=
change in the areas where you fail. We all have to do better to make it b=
etter.
This is not a feminist screed. This is a reminder that we have endured and=
overcome something that being born male spared you from ever needing to co=
nsider. And young women who have no clue what I am talking aobut and wonde=
r what the fuss is all about...you're welcome. I don't look for this stuff=
. I lived through it so hard and so long that I see it clearly. If I actu=
ally said anything every time I saw evidence of this problem...well, that w=
ould be obnoxious.
We ladies climbed Everest right here at home.
- ePriddy
Elizabeth Priddy
Beaufort, NC - USA
http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
--- On Thu, 10/7/10, Randall Moody wrote:
> (BTW the "butch up" wasn't meant to be "sexist" but I guess
> if you are
> looking for something hard enough you will find it.)
> --
> Randall in Atlanta
> http://wrandallmoody.com
>
Vince Pitelka on fri 8 oct 10
Elizabeth Priddy wrote:
"As a woman working in pottery for 28 years now, I can tell you that this i=
s
a male dominated industry and profession. As soon as you hit a certain
level the whole field goes male."
Hi Elizabeth -
I certainly do not claim to have your perspective on this, but as far as I
can see, women have been very successful in both studio pottery and academi=
c
ceramics. I am thinking of all the strong and influential ceramics teacher=
s
of the last generation, such as Marjorie Hughto, Patty Warashina, Frances
Senska, Viola Frey, Marguerite Wildenhain, Marilyn Levine, Ruth Duckworth,
Toshiko Takaezu, Suzanne Stephenson, and Marie Woo. That's just to name a
few off the top of my head. Consider all those of the current generation i=
n
clay academia - Linda Arbuckle, Marcia Selsor, Linda Sikora, Anne Currier,
Andrea Gill, Susan Beiner, Sue Grier, Kathy King, Anna Calluori Holcomb, Ev=
a
Kwong, Michalene Walsh, Joan Bruneau, Rebecca Harvey, Mary Jo Bole, Margare=
t
Boles, Liz Quackenbush, Julia Galloway, Linda Sormin, Denise Pelletier, Joa=
n
Hayakawa, Mary Roehm, Anat Shiftan, Ayumi Hori, Nan Smith, Liz Quackenbush,
Bonnie Seeman, Rebecca Hutchinson, Jeanne Quinn, Beth Lo, Gail Kendall, Gin=
a
Bobrowski, Jane Aebersold, Sally Brogden, and the list goes on and on. And
this is just a sampling of the clay academics, and doesn't include the
amazing range of women studio potters in North America. So, it seems that
women are being hired into academic positions, and that they will have a
major impact on the next generation. Isn't this a situation to celebrate?
From my own perspective, it does seem that the "good ol' boy's network" of
clay is pretty much dead and gone. No one cares about it anymore. The
women of clay are respected and acknowledged as leaders in our field.
I think that your language might be a bit dated, and that we have moved far
beyond where you seem to imply that we are now. In my own situation, most
of my best students past and present are women. I would challenge you to
find one of them who would say that they are being marginalized or
discriminated against in this field.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Bonnie Staffel on sat 9 oct 10
Hooray for you, Elizabeth. You brought back a lot of memories of my =3D
trials
and tribulations to be an independent artist back in the 40s. I was not =3D
yet
into clay, but found that when I left home and didn't live at the YWCA I =
=3D
was
considered a "you know what." An apartment just was not available to me =3D
in
those early days when I had the only option of holding a job that women =3D
were
allowed to do, such as secretaries, librarians, teachers (non-married =3D
yet)
and a few other occupations. That sure didn't bode well for me as I had =3D
set
my goals to become an artist. My father insisted that I learn how to =3D
support
myself, so I took the route of becoming a secretary, while studying with =
=3D
a
local famous artist in the evening. Well ten years later, had entered =3D
the
clay world and my friend and I often had conversations over the dinner =3D
table
along this line, of the domination of the male gender in clay, plus =3D
having a
college degree as a necessity. Never mind the talent or hard work the =3D
female
potters of my time in the early 50s. We were fortunate that a few broke
through the wall of bias towards females and while at Cranbrook, most of =
=3D
the
students in the clay department were female, but there were also some
fellows who were just starting.=3D20
=3D20
I did the only thing I felt I could do at that time was to achieve my =3D
goal
by submitting my work in local, regional and national competitive shows =3D
to
gain whatever reputation as a potter I could. Many of the jurors were =3D
men as
well. One of the jurors we had in the Toledo Museum Artists Annual came =3D
from
New York, and really looked down on earthenware as a quality medium. I =3D
was
working in the local red clay at the time. Still in numerous shows, I =3D
did
win some awards for my low fire work that I tried to make look like
stoneware and firing in an electric kiln.=3D20
=3D20
Yes, Elizabeth, we do have to remind the young potters of today that =3D
there
were very difficult mountains for women to climb to achieve their goals. =
=3D
If
we don't tell the story, it will soon be forgotten. I also do not see =3D
any
need for alley cat language in our Clayart discussions. Thank you for
standing up for all of us.
=3D20
Bonnie Staffel
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
http://vasefinder.com/bstaffelgallery1.html
DVD Throwing with Coils and Slabs
DVD Introduction to Wheel Work
Charter Member Potters Council
=3D20
Elizabeth Priddy on sat 9 oct 10
Nice list, did you google it?=3D0A=3D0AI bet every woman you mentioned has =
a st=3D
ory to tell about the last 30 years and much of it recent.=3D0A=3D0APoll th=
em. =3D
Ask them. =3D0A=3D0ABut most of them won't discuss it because it would be=
per=3D
ceived as whining negativity.=3D0A=3D0AYou are clueless if you think this p=
robl=3D
em is passed. Have fun with your buddies. Circle that wagon. Your attitu=
=3D
de is part of the problem.=3D0A=3D0AThe women writing me off list are telli=
ng m=3D
e interesting stories about current men on the list and activity within the=
=3D
last few years. I am also hearing from men who don't participate here bec=
=3D
ause they don't want to be associated with the general climate as I describ=
=3D
ed.=3D0A=3D0AI am sure you ol boys will cast us as whining women who need t=
o bu=3D
tch up further and learn how to play with the real potters, good luck with =
=3D
that.=3D0A=3D0AYou should take a hard look at your peers and stop patting y=
ours=3D
elf on the back. If you stay silent and support them when they do these th=
=3D
ings, you are complicit in their sexism and their poor treatment of our fri=
=3D
ends on list.=3D0A=3D0A- ePriddy=3D0A=3D0AElizabeth Priddy=3D0ABeaufort, NC=
- USA=3D0A=3D
=3D0Ahttp://www.elizabethpriddy.com=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A--- On Fri, 10/8/10, Vinc=
e Pitelk=3D
a wrote:=3D0A=3D0A> From: Vince Pitelka COM.=3D
NET>=3D0A> Subject: Re: Everest, Hikidashi, and the Nature of Bravery=3D0A>=
To:=3D
Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=3D0A> Date: Friday, October 8, 2010, 9:45 PM=3D0A=
> El=3D
izabeth Priddy wrote:=3D0A> "As a woman working in pottery for 28 years now=
, =3D
I can tell=3D0A> you that this is=3D0A> a male dominated industry and profe=
ssio=3D
n.=3DA0 As soon as=3D0A> you hit a certain=3D0A> level the whole field goes=
male.=3D
"=3D0A> =3D0A> Hi Elizabeth -=3D0A> I certainly do not claim to have your p=
erspec=3D
tive on this,=3D0A> but as far as I=3D0A> can see, women have been very suc=
cess=3D
ful in both studio=3D0A> pottery and academic=3D0A> ceramics.=3DA0 I am thi=
nking =3D
of all the strong and=3D0A> influential ceramics teachers=3D0A> of the last=
gen=3D
eration, such as Marjorie Hughto, Patty=3D0A> Warashina, Frances=3D0A> Sens=
ka, =3D
Viola Frey, Marguerite Wildenhain, Marilyn Levine,=3D0A> Ruth Duckworth,=3D=
0A> =3D
Toshiko Takaezu, Suzanne Stephenson, and Marie Woo.=3DA0=3D0A> That's just =
to n=3D
ame a=3D0A> few off the top of my head.=3DA0 Consider all those of the=3D0A=
> curr=3D
ent generation in=3D0A> clay academia - Linda Arbuckle, Marcia Selsor, Lind=
a=3D
=3D0A> Sikora, Anne Currier,=3D0A> Andrea Gill, Susan Beiner, Sue Grier, Ka=
thy =3D
King, Anna=3D0A> Calluori Holcomb, Eva=3D0A> Kwong, Michalene Walsh, Joan B=
rune=3D
au, Rebecca Harvey, Mary=3D0A> Jo Bole, Margaret=3D0A> Boles, Liz Quackenbu=
sh, =3D
Julia Galloway, Linda Sormin,=3D0A> Denise Pelletier, Joan=3D0A> Hayakawa, =
Mary=3D
Roehm, Anat Shiftan, Ayumi Hori, Nan Smith,=3D0A> Liz Quackenbush,=3D0A> B=
onni=3D
e Seeman, Rebecca Hutchinson, Jeanne Quinn, Beth Lo,=3D0A> Gail Kendall, Gi=
na=3D
=3D0A> Bobrowski, Jane Aebersold, Sally Brogden, and the list goes=3D0A> on=
and=3D
on.=3DA0 And=3D0A> this is just a sampling of the clay academics, and does=
n't=3D
=3D0A> include the=3D0A> amazing range of women studio potters in North=3D0=
A> Ame=3D
rica.=3DA0 So, it seems that=3D0A> women are being hired into academic posi=
tion=3D
s, and that=3D0A> they will have a=3D0A> major impact on the next generatio=
n.=3D
=3DA0 Isn't this a=3D0A> situation to celebrate?=3D0A> From my own perspect=
ive, i=3D
t does seem that the "good ol'=3D0A> boy's network" of=3D0A> clay is pretty=
muc=3D
h dead and gone.=3DA0 No one cares about=3D0A> it anymore.=3DA0 The=3D0A> w=
omen of =3D
clay are respected and acknowledged as leaders in=3D0A> our field.=3D0A> =
=3D0A> I=3D
think that your language might be a bit dated, and that=3D0A> we have move=
d =3D
far=3D0A> beyond where you seem to imply that we are now.=3DA0 In my=3D0A> =
own si=3D
tuation, most=3D0A> of my best students past and present are women.=3DA0 I=
=3D0A> =3D
would challenge you to=3D0A> find one of them who would say that they are b=
ei=3D
ng=3D0A> marginalized or=3D0A> discriminated against in this field.=3D0A> -=
Vince=3D
=3D0A> =3D0A> =3D0A> Vince Pitelka=3D0A> Appalachian Center for Craft=3D0A>=
Tennessee=3D
Tech University=3D0A> vpitelka@dtccom.net;=3D0A> wpitelka@tntech.edu=3D0A>=
http:=3D
//iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka=3D0A> =3D0A=3D0A=3D0A
nori on sun 10 oct 10
I've always admired the guerrilla girls.
for those who don't know them, they're a group of women artists fighting
discrimination in art, politics, etc.
in their words, they're reinventing the f word: feminism.
they do it wonderfully... with humor, courage and facts.
in the clay world.. it would be interesting to survey gallery & auction
sales... compare results between men / women and across racial groups.
if there was a discrepancy in sales results... some would say it's
because of talent, experience, etc.
but lots of us would also say that it's because of barriers to entry.
that the playing field is NOT even yet, despite the number of women
potters / sculptors we know, who are in magazines, who teach at which
colleges, are in which shows.
these remaining barriers are harder to bust than the old ones....
at my college in the 60's / 70's, women weren't allowed on the football
field: not as cheerleaders (they were all men), band members (they were
all men). or even as the sports editor for the paper.
title 9 changed all that. it picked the low-hanging, obvious fruit.
but those glass ceilings are still in place. they still limit the
progress of women & people of color.
they may be difficult to see, but we feel them when we hit them.
i know some folks will take umbrage with this.
that's ok.
brava to Elizabeth, Deborah, Bonnie and everyone else for speaking up
about this.
--
Clifton, Norwich & Sabra
Our studio crocus clay works
Our charity A little effort + no money =3D a big difference! Sample Soap
--
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