Larry Kruzan on sat 9 oct 10
Hi Claybuds,=3D20
The time has come at last to build the new gas kiln at my home studio. Deve=
=3D
loping this studio over the past year (through other tribulations) has real=
=3D
ly helped to keep me oriented. Now the last piece of the puzzle is this kil=
=3D
n.=3D20
It will be a welded steel frame, IFB brick/Fiberfrax kiln built to the same=
=3D
dimensions as my kiln at the commercial studio. The studio kiln is a bolt =
=3D
together affair that lends itself to experimenting, being easy to disassemb=
=3D
le. The new kiln will take advantage of what I have learned with four gener=
=3D
ations of my present kiln. Plus the new kiln will have a refrigerator type =
=3D
of swinging door instead of a stack of bricks to stack each time I fire it.=
=3D
=3D20
All the details are worked out except for the door hinges. As I see it, the=
=3D
placement of the hinge pins will make a huge difference. Since there is on=
=3D
ly going to be one shot at this, I really what to get it right and not have=
=3D
to cut it all apart later.=3D20
I have 1=3DE2=3D80=3D9D rod that will use to make the pins and a handful of=
pillo=3D
w block bearings with a 1=3DE2=3D80=3D9D bore, that the pins will go into. =
Given =3D
the weight of a door that is 54=3DE2=3D80=3D9D wide and 60=3DE2=3D80=3D9D t=
all, I do pl=3D
an to be generous with braces and gussets.=3D20
I would sure appreciate ANY help with this decision. Any photos you might c=
=3D
are to share of your hinges on your kiln will really help.=3D20
Thanks,=3D20
Larry Kruzan=3D20
Lost Creek Pottery=3D20
www.lostcreekpottery.com
Marcia Selsor on sat 9 oct 10
For a fiber kiln door, I think 1"bolt is over kill. I had 3 hinges with =3D
3/4" bolt and bore system on a door that had Insblok plus several inches =
=3D
of fiber and it worked fine. There was a steel 3" band at a 45 degree =3D
angle to re-enforce the bracing from the right angles on the corners.
Marcia
On Oct 9, 2010, at 10:58 AM, Larry Kruzan wrote:
> Hi Claybuds,=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
> The time has come at last to build the new gas kiln at my home studio. =
=3D
Developing this studio over the past year (through other tribulations) =3D
has really helped to keep me oriented. Now the last piece of the puzzle =3D
is this kiln.=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
> It will be a welded steel frame, IFB brick/Fiberfrax kiln built to the =
=3D
same dimensions as my kiln at the commercial studio. The studio kiln is =3D
a bolt together affair that lends itself to experimenting, being easy to =
=3D
disassemble. The new kiln will take advantage of what I have learned =3D
with four generations of my present kiln. Plus the new kiln will have a =3D
refrigerator type of swinging door instead of a stack of bricks to stack =
=3D
each time I fire it.=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
> All the details are worked out except for the door hinges. As I see =3D
it, the placement of the hinge pins will make a huge difference. Since =3D
there is only going to be one shot at this, I really what to get it =3D
right and not have to cut it all apart later.=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
> I have 1=3D94 rod that will use to make the pins and a handful of pillow =
=3D
block bearings with a 1=3D94 bore, that the pins will go into. Given the =
=3D
weight of a door that is 54=3D94 wide and 60=3D94 tall, I do plan to be =3D
generous with braces and gussets.=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
> I would sure appreciate ANY help with this decision. Any photos you =3D
might care to share of your hinges on your kiln will really help.=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
> Thanks,=3D20
>=3D20
> Larry Kruzan=3D20
>=3D20
> Lost Creek Pottery=3D20
>=3D20
> www.lostcreekpottery.com
>=3D20
Marcia Selsor
http://www.marciaselsor.com
Vince Pitelka on sat 9 oct 10
Larry -=3D20
1" rod is overkill for hinge pins on any kiln door. I use 3/4" =3D
hot-rolled shafting with 3/4" I.D. black iron pipe for the outer member. =
=3D
You can weld angle-iron or flat-bar to the black-iron pipe for the =3D
attachments to the kiln door. I weld the 3/4" rod to the kiln frame, so =
=3D
that the rod sticks up 4" above the flat-bar or angle attachment. That =3D
way, I can set a 4" piece of 3/4" black iron pipe over the rod, block-up =
=3D
the door frame in place against the front of the kiln face with some =3D
IFBs clamped in place in the frame to determine spacing from the kiln =3D
face. I measure and cut the angle or flat-bar pieces and tack-weld them =
=3D
to the 3/4" pipe and to the door frame, and then lift the door off the =3D
3/4" shafts and finish the welds. After that, it can be set in place =3D
again, and then the brick work can be finished. I have always used IFB =3D
in my kiln doors, with a very simple system of locking them in place =3D
with no mortar. For the life of my kiln, the door bricks never come =3D
loose. I can describe that in more detail if you wish, and perhaps post =
=3D
some images on my website. =3D20
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu=3D20
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
David Beumee on sun 10 oct 10
Hi Vince,
A description of your self locking no mortar door brick system would be
very helpful, and some images would be doubly helpful.
Thanks,
David Beumee
On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 5:15 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> Larry -
> 1" rod is overkill for hinge pins on any kiln door. I use 3/4" hot-rolle=
d
> shafting with 3/4" I.D. black iron pipe for the outer member. You can we=
ld
> angle-iron or flat-bar to the black-iron pipe for the attachments to the
> kiln door. I weld the 3/4" rod to the kiln frame, so that the rod sticks=
up
> 4" above the flat-bar or angle attachment. That way, I can set a 4" piec=
e
> of 3/4" black iron pipe over the rod, block-up the door frame in place
> against the front of the kiln face with some IFBs clamped in place in the
> frame to determine spacing from the kiln face. I measure and cut the ang=
le
> or flat-bar pieces and tack-weld them to the 3/4" pipe and to the door
> frame, and then lift the door off the 3/4" shafts and finish the welds.
> After that, it can be set in place again, and then the brick work can be
> finished. I have always used IFB in my kiln doors, with a very simple
> system of locking them in place with no mortar. For the life of my kiln,
> the door bricks never come loose. I can describe that in more detail if =
you
> wish, and perhaps post some images on my website.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft
> Tennessee Tech University
> vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
>
David Beumee on sun 10 oct 10
Great! Thanks Vince. Instead of hanging the door from the frame of the kiln=
,
I'd like to use your idea and build a door that runs on track, so the weigh=
t
is carried by the concrete floor, not the frame of the kiln. It's like a ca=
r
kiln, but with only the door running on track. I've got the system on my
home built reduction kiln which I bought used in 1990, and I've always
thought it was a great idea. I would never have thought to use IFB for a
soda kiln, but if I can get your recipe for the wash, I'll give it a go,
considering I get approval from the inspector. I don't think anything I say
will hold much weight, but if I can get a letter from Dr. Carty, I'm sure
that will be enough. After all, the building inspector is an Alfred grad in
pottery.
David
On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 7:05 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> David Beumee wrote:
> "A description of your self locking no mortar door brick system would be
> very helpful, and some images would be doubly helpful."
>
> Hi David -
> I will post some images on my website as soon as I can, but in the mean
> time
> here's a description, and if you need photos I can email them to you. A
> single 4.5" thickness of IFB is fine for a door, even on a big kiln, and
> even on a salt or soda kiln. We have such a door on our 60-cubic-foot sa=
lt
> kiln. The kiln was built in 2002, and is on its very last leg, but the I=
FB
> in the door is still in pretty good shape. I attribute this partially to
> the fact that the door seals against the face of the kiln and there is a =
9"
> hardbrick wall, so in essence the door is recessed 9" away from the main
> interior space of the kiln. I do not know how else to explain the fact
> that
> the salt has had so little impact on the IFB in the door. We did coat it
> with an aluminum-zircopax-kaolin wash, sprayed on in several thin,
> saturating coatings.
>
> A kiln door frame needs to be very rigid, especially a larger kiln, and
> especially if it is going to support IFB it should be made of 4x4x1/4"
> angle
> iron, welded together just like a picture frame. Down the center-line on
> one
> vertical side-surface of the frame (not the face of the frame), drill 1/2=
"
> holes on 6" centers, push a 1/2" by 1 1/2" bolt through from the inside o=
f
> each hole, thread a nut onto the outside of each hole, weld the nuts to t=
he
> 4" angle, and remove the bolts. Now there is a nut welded in place
> perfectly centered over the outside of every hole.
>
> The IFB are stacked in place very carefully in normal stretcher courses,
> staggering the rows, and the length of the last brick in each row is cut
> very carefully to leave a 3/8" gap up the inside vertical edge of the doo=
r
> inside the frame where all the nuts are welded to the outside. In other
> words, the end of each row is exactly 3/8" from the inside of the door
> frame
> on the side where the nuts are welded to the outside of the frame.
>
> Once all the brick are in place, all the way to the top of the door frame=
,
> cut a length of 1/4x3" flat bar to fit exactly inside the vertical
> dimension
> of the door frame, and slide it into the 3/8" space between the bricks an=
d
> the edge of the frame where all the nuts are welded to the outside. Push =
it
> in as far as it will go.
>
> Thread a 1/2" by 1 1/2" bolt into each one of the nuts on the outside of
> the
> door, and tighten them to press against the flat bar on the inside, which
> in
> turn presses against the IFB. Don't over-tighten. Just bring them up sn=
ug
> and then give them another twist. You can check them over time, but in m=
y
> experience they do not loosen at all.
>
> This was the system used on the salt kiln when I arrived at the Craft
> Center
> in 1994. I had never seen it used before that. I have used it on each o=
f
> the subsequent two salt kilns, and those doors have lasted the life of th=
e
> kiln with no further adjustments or repair.
>
> In some ways, this system seems counterintuitive - just a row of bolts
> pressing against a vertical piece of flat bar pressing against one edge s=
o
> the bricks in the door. But it works perfectly, and there is no downside=
.
>
> Please let me know if there is anything unclear about this explanation. =
I
> do not have any close-ups, but I do have photos of our most recent salt
> kiln
> (which is now due for replacement) when it was first built, and you can s=
ee
> the row of bolts up the outside center of one side of the door frame.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft
> Tennessee Tech University
> vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
>
>
>
Vince Pitelka on sun 10 oct 10
David Beumee wrote:
"A description of your self locking no mortar door brick system would be
very helpful, and some images would be doubly helpful."
Hi David -
I will post some images on my website as soon as I can, but in the mean tim=
e
here's a description, and if you need photos I can email them to you. A
single 4.5" thickness of IFB is fine for a door, even on a big kiln, and
even on a salt or soda kiln. We have such a door on our 60-cubic-foot salt
kiln. The kiln was built in 2002, and is on its very last leg, but the IFB
in the door is still in pretty good shape. I attribute this partially to
the fact that the door seals against the face of the kiln and there is a 9"
hardbrick wall, so in essence the door is recessed 9" away from the main
interior space of the kiln. I do not know how else to explain the fact tha=
t
the salt has had so little impact on the IFB in the door. We did coat it
with an aluminum-zircopax-kaolin wash, sprayed on in several thin,
saturating coatings.
A kiln door frame needs to be very rigid, especially a larger kiln, and
especially if it is going to support IFB it should be made of 4x4x1/4" angl=
e
iron, welded together just like a picture frame. Down the center-line on on=
e
vertical side-surface of the frame (not the face of the frame), drill 1/2"
holes on 6" centers, push a 1/2" by 1 1/2" bolt through from the inside of
each hole, thread a nut onto the outside of each hole, weld the nuts to the
4" angle, and remove the bolts. Now there is a nut welded in place
perfectly centered over the outside of every hole.
The IFB are stacked in place very carefully in normal stretcher courses,
staggering the rows, and the length of the last brick in each row is cut
very carefully to leave a 3/8" gap up the inside vertical edge of the door
inside the frame where all the nuts are welded to the outside. In other
words, the end of each row is exactly 3/8" from the inside of the door fram=
e
on the side where the nuts are welded to the outside of the frame.
Once all the brick are in place, all the way to the top of the door frame,
cut a length of 1/4x3" flat bar to fit exactly inside the vertical dimensio=
n
of the door frame, and slide it into the 3/8" space between the bricks and
the edge of the frame where all the nuts are welded to the outside. Push it
in as far as it will go.
Thread a 1/2" by 1 1/2" bolt into each one of the nuts on the outside of th=
e
door, and tighten them to press against the flat bar on the inside, which i=
n
turn presses against the IFB. Don't over-tighten. Just bring them up snug
and then give them another twist. You can check them over time, but in my
experience they do not loosen at all.
This was the system used on the salt kiln when I arrived at the Craft Cente=
r
in 1994. I had never seen it used before that. I have used it on each of
the subsequent two salt kilns, and those doors have lasted the life of the
kiln with no further adjustments or repair.
In some ways, this system seems counterintuitive - just a row of bolts
pressing against a vertical piece of flat bar pressing against one edge so
the bricks in the door. But it works perfectly, and there is no downside.
Please let me know if there is anything unclear about this explanation. I
do not have any close-ups, but I do have photos of our most recent salt kil=
n
(which is now due for replacement) when it was first built, and you can see
the row of bolts up the outside center of one side of the door frame.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
douglas fur on sun 10 oct 10
Larry Kruzan
The problem as you state it is in hanging the door asymetrically (from one
side) off the kiln.
the "In my dreams" solution would be to-
Hang the door from a pivoting at the top center of the door
This rod goes up to a carriage that runs in a "U" channel
The channel rests on a cross bar at the top of the kiln frame
The channel pivots on its connection to a cross bar at the back top of the
kiln frame
The channel is free to slide side to side on the front cross bar
The door opens by rolling it out on the channel and then pushing the door
and channel to the side. (if you work the geometry you could have the door
pivot around to the side of the kiln)
All the weight is up and down with no leverage requiring heavy hard ware
DRB
Seola Creek
jonathan byler on mon 11 oct 10
please.
On Oct 9, 2010, at 6:15 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> Larry -
> 1" rod is overkill for hinge pins on any kiln door. I use 3/4" hot-
> rolled shafting with 3/4" I.D. black iron pipe for the outer
> member. You can weld angle-iron or flat-bar to the black-iron pipe
> for the attachments to the kiln door. I weld the 3/4" rod to the
> kiln frame, so that the rod sticks up 4" above the flat-bar or angle
> attachment. That way, I can set a 4" piece of 3/4" black iron pipe
> over the rod, block-up the door frame in place against the front of
> the kiln face with some IFBs clamped in place in the frame to
> determine spacing from the kiln face. I measure and cut the angle
> or flat-bar pieces and tack-weld them to the 3/4" pipe and to the
> door frame, and then lift the door off the 3/4" shafts and finish
> the welds. After that, it can be set in place again, and then the
> brick work can be finished. I have always used IFB in my kiln
> doors, with a very simple system of locking them in place with no
> mortar. For the life of my kiln, the door bricks never come loose.
> I can describe that in more detail if you wish, and perhaps post
> some images on my website.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft
> Tennessee Tech University
> vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Vince Pitelka on mon 11 oct 10
David Beumee wrote:
"I would never have thought to use IFB for a soda kiln, but if I can get
your recipe for the wash, I'll give it a go, considering I get approval fro=
m
the inspector."
David -
I do not think that we had a specific recipe. As I remember, the mix was
about 50 Zircopax, 35 alumina, 10 kaolin, and 5 ball clay. The important
thing is to spray a series of thin, saturating coatings. That is the kind
of application method that works best with ITC as well.
It's important to stress that this worked well for the inside of the door,
but I have no idea how it would perform in other hotface locations,
especially the more stressful ones. We went through the attempt to use IFB
in soda kilns, and finally went back to hardbrick. But for the door you
really have little to lose, because it is easy to replace. As I mentioned,
we got eight years of use out of the IFB door on our salt kiln. When I
build my next soda kiln I will incorporate a heavy-enough frame to hang a
hinged door.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net;
wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Michael McDowell on tue 12 oct 10
David,
If you are interested in seeing an image or two of the mortarless door
design Vince has described you could take a look at my website. I have a
couple of pages there depicting the process of constructing a mortarless
Kiln that Vince designed for me. It is a car kiln, so the door has no hinge=
s
(the subject line for this thread). Still the principle of construction for
building the door panel is the same.
The link below will take you to the second page of the kiln building
process, where the bricking up of the car/door is illustrated. There are
three images showing the bolt/plate arrangement at about the middle of the
page. Clicking on those tiny photos will take you to larger images.
http://www.mcdowellpottery.com/NewKiln2.htm
Michael McDowell
Whatcom County, WA, USA
michael@mcdowellpottery.com
http://www.McDowellPottery.com
Vince Pitelka on tue 12 oct 10
Michael McDowell wrote:
"If you are interested in seeing an image or two of the mortarless door
design Vince has described you could take a look at my website. I have a
couple of pages there depicting the process of constructing a mortarless
Kiln that Vince designed for me. It is a car kiln, so the door has no hinge=
s
(the subject line for this thread). Still the principle of construction for
building the door panel is the same."
http://www.mcdowellpottery.com/NewKiln2.htm
Thanks to Michael for mentioning that wonderful set of images he shot durin=
g
the construction of his kiln. If you click on any image, you can then use
the right- or left-hand arrows below the image to scroll through the whole
series covering the kiln construction, which is pretty cool. You don't get
to see the piece of 1/4x3" flat bar being inserted in the slot between the
bricks and the frame, but you can see the row of anchor bolts, and there is
a shot of Michael tightening the bolts.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
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