May Luk on sat 16 oct 10
At the Tate Modern
Uh, now the general public gets an explanation about ceramic dust from
Dr Lee Noimark, "a consultant paediatric allergist at the Barts and
the London Children's hospital"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/2010/oct/15/tate-modern-sunflower-se=
eds-ban
My potter friend from East London found a porcelain seed in the lift
of her studio. This is before she found out about the exhibition.
Apparently somebody from her building has gone to the show. I told
her we are to make some porcelain seeds and mix them in the main
exhibition and say we have our work showing together with Ai Weiwei at
Tate Modern.
May
Brooklyn
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 11:07 PM, Philip Poburka wrote=
:
> Hi Birgit,
>
>
> Huh...
>
>
> How unexpected.
>
>
> How could this be?
>
>
>
> If the Oxides or whatever as was used to make the striated exterior, if t=
his
> were fired and bound well, nothing should be wearing off for being tread =
on,
> for there to be any 'dusts'...
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Birgit Wright"
>
> Just heard on a news cast on our canadian public radio that the sunflower
> seed show was closed to interaction because there got to be too much dust
> generated by people swishing through the seeds. Birgit
> =3D
>
--
http://twitter.com/MayLuk
http://www.ceramicsbrooklyn.com/
Johanna DeMaine on sun 17 oct 10
At the Tate Modern
Regarding the making of the Sunflower seeds, go to the Tate Modern websit=
=3D
e and=3D20
watch the video either in English or Chinese=3D20
http://www.tate.org.uk/modern/exhibitions/unileverseries2010/room3.shtm
The raw clay seeds were painted with oxides and then fired.
They were then tumbled in a ball mill/tumbler and washed.=3D20
I personally don't think they were fired to a low bisque as this is quite=
=3D
foreign to=3D20
the Jingdezhen ceramic culture where all porcelain is raw glazed and fire=
=3D
d to=3D20
1300.c
By the way the video also gives an insight into the artist's intent and a=
=3D
lso the=3D20
involvement of the workers. Maybe some people should revise their opinion=
=3D
s after=3D20
gaining further insight.
Johanna DeMaine
http://johanna.demaine.org
http://overglaze.info
http://allthatissublime.com
Fabienne McMillan on mon 18 oct 10
At the Tate Modern
Although the intent of the artist is important, one has to accept the
fact that we all come with different background and that our art will
be experienced differently. I once showed a sculpture and only one
person saw it my way out of all the visitors I had the opportunity to
chat with. I wasn't offended or disappointed (like: they're not
getting it attitude) just marveled and actually learned a few things.
Fabienne
"We never touch people so lightly that we do not leave a trace." ~
Peggy Tabor Millin
On Oct 17, 2010, at 5:33 PM, Johanna DeMaine wrote:
>
> By the way the video also gives an insight into the artist's intent
> and also the
> involvement of the workers. Maybe some people should revise their
> opinions after
> gaining further insight.
>
> Johanna DeMaine
Vince Pitelka on mon 18 oct 10
At the Tate Modern
Johanna DeMaine mentions the online video about Ai Weiwei's installation at
the Tate Modern at:
http://www.tate.org.uk/modern/exhibitions/unileverseries2010/room3.shtm and
says:
"By the way the video also gives an insight into the artist's intent and
also the
involvement of the workers. Maybe some people should revise their opinions
after
gaining further insight."
Hi Johanna -
It is no surprise that a lot of people do not appreciate installation work
of the magnitude of Ai Weiwei's "Sunflower Seeds." They see the huge
expenditure of labor, and they do not see a traditional "aesthetic" product=
,
and they think the effort could have been spent on something more
"worthwhile." Artists doing major installations have faced the same
criticism throughout human history. I just read a fascinating article abou=
t
Ai Weiwei in the New Yorker, and he is really pushing the envelope, as I
mentioned in an earlier post. I hope he doesn't end up in jail in China,
although he may aiming for just that, as a statement. He has become so
visible worldwide, and it would certainly raise an international outcry if
the Chinese government tried to silence him.
Any sort of art that makes people think and feel, questions our perceptions
and values, and by doing so attracts broad attention is a very good thing.
It is short-sighted to condemn or dismiss any work of art unless a person
has been there in-person and experienced the work first-hand. Christian
Boltansky, Christo and Jean Claude, Antony Gormley, Claus Oldenburg and
Coosje van Bruggen, Magdalena Abakanowicz, Jonathan Borofsky, Arman, Allan
McCollum, and so many other recent and contemporary artists doing
massive-scale installation work (although rarely on this scale of
massiveness!) have faced the same kind of response. It is inevitable that
the more adventurous and innovative artists will constantly push and test
the public's capacity to understand and interpret their work. That's part
of what artist's do, and without it, art would not move forward. It is no
surprise that a significant fraction of the public fits into the group that
misunderstands and dismisses the most innovative and risk-taking artwork.
That's part of what the public does.
Regarding the dust problem, it is a very real problem - the risk of
silicosis, because the dust is from the seeds rubbing up against each other
and being agitated by feet moving through and upon them. I would think tha=
t
the Tate could come up with a simple vacuum device with a screen to prevent
the machine from picking up the seeds themselves, while filtering out the
dust. If this was done once every day or two, the dust would never
accumulate to dangerous levels. Also, they could require that people walk
over the seeds without unnecessarily stirring them up with their feet. As
someone pointed out in an online article, going to see "Sunflower Seeds" an=
d
being forced to stand behind a barricade and view it from a distance is lik=
e
going to the beach and being forced to view it from the road without ever
setting foot in the sand. It ain't the same thing at all. Some art
installations are meant to be viewed without direct physical interaction,
but Ai Weiwei's "Sunflower Seeds" was intended to be interactive, and
without the interaction, the work is not complete.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Philip Poburka on mon 18 oct 10
At the Tate Modern
Hi Johanna,
I enjoyed seeing the Video about the production of the 'Seeds'...thanks for
posting the link.
So, if they are indeed fired fairly high, and had been tumbles and washed
and so on, I wonder where's all that supposed 'dust' coming from?
I am curious -
Who are the 'some people' you refer to who should revise their opinions
after gaining further insight?
&
What were the 'opinions' they should revise, and, on the basis of what
insight?
Phil
Lv
----- Original Message -----
From: "Johanna DeMaine"
Regarding the making of the Sunflower seeds, go to the Tate Modern website
and
watch the video either in English or Chinese
http://www.tate.org.uk/modern/exhibitions/unileverseries2010/room3.shtm
The raw clay seeds were painted with oxides and then fired.
They were then tumbled in a ball mill/tumbler and washed.
I personally don't think they were fired to a low bisque as this is quite
foreign to
the Jingdezhen ceramic culture where all porcelain is raw glazed and fired
to
1300.c
By the way the video also gives an insight into the artist's intent and als=
o
the
involvement of the workers. Maybe some people should revise their opinions
after
gaining further insight.
Johanna DeMaine
http://johanna.demaine.org
http://overglaze.info
http://allthatissublime.com
Ron Roy on mon 18 oct 10
At the Tate Modern
I wonder if the "paint" is Manganese - it would be one way to get that
colour. If that is the case there will certainly be manganese dust
around in that situation.
RR
Quoting Johanna DeMaine :
> Regarding the making of the Sunflower seeds, go to the Tate Modern
> website and
> watch the video either in English or Chinese
> http://www.tate.org.uk/modern/exhibitions/unileverseries2010/room3.shtm
>
> The raw clay seeds were painted with oxides and then fired.
> They were then tumbled in a ball mill/tumbler and washed.
> I personally don't think they were fired to a low bisque as this is
> quite foreign to
> the Jingdezhen ceramic culture where all porcelain is raw glazed and fire=
d to
> 1300.c
> By the way the video also gives an insight into the artist's intent
> and also the
> involvement of the workers. Maybe some people should revise their
> opinions after
> gaining further insight.
>
> Johanna DeMaine
> http://johanna.demaine.org
> http://overglaze.info
> http://allthatissublime.com
>
Philip Poburka on tue 19 oct 10
At the Tate Modern
Hi Steve, all...
As you likely know, pressure radiates more or less to a distribution within
about 45 degrees to each side, or as a 'cone', from where it is being
applied...
One sees a tidy example of this in instances where a BB or bit of Gravel
hits Glass hard enough - a little 'Cone' is blown out, radiating from the
point or application of force which had occurred.
One could have one's spread-Finger-Hand among the 'Seeds', all day long, an=
d
have people walk over it all day long, directly over it, and it would not b=
e
any much for discomfort.
I do not see there being a condition which would permit the kind of hard
friction or pressures needed, to mechanically decompose High Fire Porcelain=
,
merely for a very few people on two days, and, a lot of people on some of
one day, walking on them.
Imagine Porcelain shards from smashed Pots say, small shards all, arranged
as a large six inch deep 'Carpet' of shards...and, people walking on them.
Do we expect sudden, startling, dust-making decompositions occurring?
I do not, anyway.
Either the Artist lied about the degree of Fire, or the Tate is lieing...or
there is a minute degree of unexamined and entirely irrelevant truth,
possibly relating to a lot of gumpers on the people-day, coming in with lot=
s
of dust or dried fine Mud or something on their Shoes, and imparting that t=
o
the exhibition.
No way the 'Seeds' would be making enough dust for anyone to notice, given
the condition and duration we were told.
Love,
Phil
Lv
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Slatin"
> Phil -- I suspect -- and this is just a speculation --
> thaqt the reason for the dust is that the process of
> people walking through the seeds involves lots of
> friction (and even crushing) of the non-regular
> porcelain surface of the seeds.
>
> If the seeds were perfectly flat, and smooth, and
> didn't rub against one another, it'd be like walking
> on porcelain tiles -- an experience that would be
> unremarkable because the steps would leave no trace.
>
> But crunching down on a bed of rough-surfaced
> nearly-perfect models of sunflower seeds? Lots of
> friction, lots of dust, and the texture for the
> visitor must be remarkable -- but with the experience
> a little different for each visitor.
>
> Just my 2 pice ...
>
>
> Steve Slatin --
Steve Slatin on tue 19 oct 10
At the Tate Modern
Phil -- I suspect -- and this is just a speculation --
thaqt the reason for the dust is that the process of
people walking through the seeds involves lots of
friction (and even crushing) of the non-regular
porcelain surface of the seeds.
If the seeds were perfectly flat, and smooth, and
didn't rub against one another, it'd be like walking
on porcelain tiles -- an experience that would be
unremarkable because the steps would leave no trace.
But crunching down on a bed of rough-surfaced
nearly-perfect models of sunflower seeds? Lots of
friction, lots of dust, and the texture for the
visitor must be remarkable -- but with the experience
a little different for each visitor.
Just my 2 pice ...
Steve Slatin --
N48.0886450
W123.1420482
--- On Mon, 10/18/10, Philip Poburka wrote:
>
>
> So, if they are indeed fired fairly high, and had been
> tumbles and washed
> and so on, I wonder where's all that supposed 'dust' coming
> from?
Eric Hansen on tue 19 oct 10
At the Tate Modern
I remember the Tate Modern was kind of dusty; that was sans seeds. The
Joseph Beuys room was covered in dust as I recall.
- h a n s e n -
On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 8:04 PM, Ron Roy wrote:
> I wonder if the "paint" is Manganese - it would be one way to get that
> colour. If that is the case there will certainly be manganese dust
> around in that situation.
>
> RR
>
>
> Quoting Johanna DeMaine :
>
>> Regarding the making of the Sunflower seeds, go to the Tate Modern
>> website and
>> watch the video either in English or Chinese
>> http://www.tate.org.uk/modern/exhibitions/unileverseries2010/room3.shtm
>>
>> The raw clay seeds were painted with oxides and then fired.
>> They were then tumbled in a ball mill/tumbler and washed.
>> I personally don't think they were fired to a low bisque as this is
>> quite foreign to
>> the Jingdezhen ceramic culture where all porcelain is raw glazed and fir=
ed
>> to
>> 1300.c
>> By the way the video also gives an insight into the artist's intent
>> and also the
>> involvement of the workers. Maybe some people should revise their
>> opinions after
>> gaining further insight.
>>
>> Johanna DeMaine
>> http://johanna.demaine.org
>> http://overglaze.info
>> http://allthatissublime.com
>>
>
--
Eric Alan Hansen
Stonehouse Studio Pottery
Alexandria, Virginia
americanpotter.blogspot.com
thesuddenschool.blogspot.com
hansencookbook.blogspot.com
"To me, human life in all its forms, individual and aggregate, is a
perpetual wonder: the flora of the earth and sea is full of beauty and
of mystery which seeks science to understand; the fauna of land and
ocean is not less wonderful; the world which holds them both, and the
great universe that folds it in on everyside, are still more
wonderful, complex, and attractive to the contemplating mind." -
Theodore Parker, minister, transcendentalist, abolitionist (1810-1860)
Randall Moody on wed 20 oct 10
At the Tate Modern
Does it really matter the specific mechanism in which the "seeds" are
causing dust or it the more important issue that the seeds are causing dust=
?
I also noticed that in the video one of the workers was saying that she
earned 2-3000RMB for the job so I overshot the mark on how much the workers
were being paid by double. To me it doesn't really matter if the person
being taken advantage of is happy with being taken advantage of. They are
still being taken advantage of. That, of course, is my opinion and you can
feel free to disagree. Does anyone know what the artist was paid for this?
--
Randall in Atlanta
http://wrandallmoody.com
May Luk on wed 20 oct 10
At the Tate Modern
Update from the New York Times by Roberta Smith. She was there.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/19/arts/design/19sunflower.html?th&emc=3Dth
--
http://twitter.com/MayLuk
http://www.ceramicsbrooklyn.com/
Philip Poburka on thu 21 oct 10
At the Tate Modern
> ----- Original Message -----=3D20
> From: Randall Moody=3D20
> Let's just go the extra mile in this and say that we don't even know =3D
if the artist, the installation or the Tate really exists or for that =3D
matter if all of this is just a bad dream.=3D20
--=3D20
> Randall in Atlanta
Hi Randall,=3D20
Lol...awwwwwwwwwwwww, c'mon...
It's up to you...of course.
But as for me, I am interested in the thing, and found it worthy of some =
=3D
thought and wondering.
I like the 'Seeds' intrinsically.
The 'installation' to me is a sort of 'Blahhh'.
I like the Chinese Artisans who made the actual 'Seeds' and did the =3D
Oxide Painting on to them.
I do not have any feel for the 'artist', other than to notice he has =3D
people-managing experience and must be politically able, and overall =3D
fairly savvy to have got the gig.
I simply find nothing to go on, for modelling or substantiating to my =3D
own satisfaction, any 'dust' claims issued by the Tate, that are being =3D
attributed to the 'Seeds' as cause or provenance.
I think we can manage these distinctions, without loosing the whole.
Love,
Phil
Lv=3D20
Philip Poburka on thu 21 oct 10
At the Tate Modern
Hi Randall, all...
Below...amid...
> From: "Randall Moody"
> Does it really matter the specific mechanism in which the "seeds" are
> causing dust or it the more important issue that the seeds are causing
> dust?
What a revealing and amusing thing for you to ask.
To me it does, yes.
That was why I was trying to understand it.
I am not convinced the 'Seeds' have caused any 'dust'.
If it is to be said that they dad, I would like to know 'how'.
Without a model of the 'mechanism', however are we to evaluate the
purportation/assertion/claim, that they are or have ( caused
enough 'dust' to virtually close or deny people-traffic into the
exhibition)?
Since I gather the Tate has always had on-going 'dust' problems anyway,
there is that possibility also - that the supposed 'dust' was merely
Business as Usual, but, for some reason they elected to blame the 'Seeds'
this time.
Just whom, exactly, claims to have personally seen any ;dust; anyway,
associated with the 'Seeds'?
> I also noticed that in the video one of the workers was saying that she
> earned 2-3000RMB for the job so I overshot the mark on how much the
> workers were being paid by double.
Why would it matter what or how much the workers are being paid?
Just so long as someone, somewhere, says they were paid?
If a hear-say or press-release is good enough for you the rest of the time,
how come it is not good enough for this aspect?
Why not just believe what you are told and stop worrying about it?
If you get told contradictory things, resolve it by electing the least
probable version, or by being the most credulous and naive or gullible or
submissive.
Seems to work for millions upon millions of other boys-n-girls.
Worked real good in China...
> To me it doesn't really matter if the
> person
> being taken advantage of is happy with being taken advantage of.
> They are still being taken advantage of.
What else did you think that whole 'Cultural Revolution' and killing
100,000,000 people was all about?
Did you think the advent of the Communist 'revolution' and brutal tyranny
and human slavery and other loot for the privileged and all what went with
it, was about freedom and
enlightenment for all the other folks? Free Enterprise? Consumer rights?
Freedom of speech, of literature of 'Art'? and reasonable
self determination for everyone regardless of station?
Breakin' a few eggs to make a Nomlette?
> That, of course, is my opinion and you can
> feel free to disagree. Does anyone know what the artist was paid for this=
?
I have no idea...
I do not know anything about what is a usual Wage or
Piece-Work Commission or however things made by contract Labor are paid for
in that area or that Village or for Slip Casting small
replicants of a form and or decorating the pieces also.
Now I wanna hear some a dems tunes by...'Dust Brothers' -
Maybe...
http://www.dustbrothers.com/
> Randall in Atlanta
> http://wrandallmoody.com
Love,
Phil
Lv
Randall Moody on thu 21 oct 10
At the Tate Modern
Maybe I am not being clear here so I will try to clarify my positions on
this subject. The dust was apparently not present in quantity prior to the
installation of the piece. IIf they cure the dust problem by roping off the
piece and not allowing interaction with it in the same way the obvious
conclusion is that the dust arose from the piece. Now it is important to
have the dust tested for toxicity since it is probable that the items were
not made to the same safety standards that one would find in the UK or othe=
r
more stringent countries.
I wonder how much the artist was paid for the piece in relation to how much
the workers were paid since the artist was attempting a statement concernin=
g
those people. To take advantage of a person in order to make a statement
about how the person was being taken advantage of is hypocritical and is
still taking advantage of the person. It doesn't matter that the person
being taken advantage of is happy about it.
--
Randall in Atlanta
http://wrandallmoody.com
Philip Poburka on thu 21 oct 10
At the Tate Modern
Hi Randall, all...
Below...amid..
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randall Moody"
> Seeds At the Tate Modern
> Maybe I am not being clear here so I will try to clarify my positions on
> this subject. The dust was apparently not present in quantity prior to th=
e
> installation of the piece.
Well, we do not know, do we?
We do not know what if any 'dusts' came in from Heating Ducts, Vandalism,
Workmen plastering nearby, or other sources entirely independent of the
'Seeds'.
> If they cure the dust problem by roping off the
> piece and not allowing interaction with it in the same way the obvious
> conclusion is that the dust arose from the piece.
We do not really know if any 'dust problem' ever even existed, to be 'cured=
'
by the 'Ropes' and by refusing to let people walk in or upon the 'Seeds'
now.
We do not know if any 'dusts' were in fact ever occasioned by any mechanica=
l
forces acting upon the 'Seeds' from the little bit of people walking on the=
m
which had gone on.
> Now it is important to
> have the dust tested for toxicity since it is probable that the items wer=
e
> not made to the same safety standards that one would find in the UK or
> other
> more stringent countries.
Sure...
Lol...
Like Tate is going to somehow prepare a sample of God knows what 'dust'
obtained from who knows where or what, and, pay a few grand for some
credentialed Testing Service to 'test' it...so that..????
That they can exclaim...there is no Porcelaneous/Silicacious or decorative
Oxide related provenance to it?
Or, that there is?
Either would be a liability of one kind or another.
The Tate are 'politicians', they are always between some rock and a hard
spot, and, one may rely on them to think, do and speak like 'politicians'
because they ARE 'politicians'.
They can make up anything they want, long as there is no way for anyone to
verify it.
> I wonder how much the artist was paid for the piece in relation to how
> much
> the workers were paid since the artist was attempting a statement
> concerning
> those people.
This would be interesting to know, yes.
> To take advantage of a person in order to make a statement
> about how the person was being taken advantage of is hypocritical and is
> still taking advantage of the person. It doesn't matter that the person
> being taken advantage of is happy about it.
This part gets really complicated, and fast, too...or, to me it does,
anyway.
And this is not because I am wishing to be coy or elusive or evasive or
mystifying toward anyone's interest.
But, attributing value to who does what, is tricky, is complicated, and is
indeed, to my mind, always worthy of review and analysis.
Without the 'Artist' conceiving, proposing, submitting, schmoosing,
glad-handing, and selling the 'installation', and having the where-with-all
to manage, deligate, organize, bribe officials, grease-wheels, motivate,
show respects and deferences all over, make accomidations, deal with
customs/export things, transport, insurance, lots of paperwork and details,
on and on, and see it through, the project would have not happened, and not
brought any Work to the Artisans who produced the actual pieces.
Without the willingness and care and interest of the Artisans, or of
Artisans elected from whatever place, there would be no 'Seeds' having been
produced.
How and or by whom the attributions of Value are to be assigned ( or the
assigns evaluated) , is probably a blend of an aesthetic sense, a moral
sense derived or adapted from the aesthetic, Common Sense ( ditto I s'pose)=
,
and, an Accountant's reconning of costs/expenses/liabilities, etc, in how
skills of comparable order find recompense in equal-enough endevors or
application when such may be used in comparison, and, some respect to the
inventor-originator or vision of the ( in this case ) 'Artist' to have
thought it up to begin with.
Much of which is potentially very mutable, and, negotiable, and dependent
however much upon the values the individuals may assign to their part in it=
,
according to their experience and judgement.
> Randall in Atlanta
> http://wrandallmoody.com
Phil
Lv
Robert Harris on thu 21 oct 10
At the Tate Modern
Randall,
While I agree with your general sentiment that taking advantage of
people is wrong - I cannot see any way that there can be anything
other than an arbitrary definition of "Taking Advantage Of". For some
people it might be if the artist was pocketing more than the piece
cost to manufacture (i.e. a 100% mark-up). For others it might be
$10,000 (or a set number anyway), for others they might define it as
paying less than the "median standard of living in China". All of
these numbers will be different. Thus your argument is, to misquote Wm
S., "full of sound and fury, but signifying nothing".
I'm sure that you have a perfectly workable definition - that is good.
That does not mean yours is the one right and true definition.
Robert
Randall Moody on thu 21 oct 10
At the Tate Modern
Let's just go the extra mile in this and say that we don't even know if the
artist, the instalation or the Tate really exists or for that matter if all
of this is just a bad dream.
--
Randall in Atlanta
http://wrandallmoody.com
Marian Parkes on fri 22 oct 10
At the Tate Modern
My apologies if this has already been linked.=3D20
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/19/arts/design/19sunflower.html
Frank Gaydos on fri 22 oct 10
At the Tate Modern
Phil et al,=3D20
When I first=3DC2=3DA0 unpacked my wonderful porcelain ball mill from China=
, fi=3D
lled with hand made porcelain 'meat' balls I could still see the palm print=
=3D
s of the person who shaped them. Within a very short amount of time, a few =
=3D
hours of grinding, the finger prints were completely gone. Today after mayb=
=3D
e=3DC2=3DA0a few dozen=3DC2=3DA0 uses the balls are 1/3 smaller then the or=
iginal s=3D
ize. Porcelain will grin d away.=3D20
It would be no surprise to me if 100 million unglazed=3DC2=3DA0 seeds being=
gro=3D
und and ground again were to produce a cloud of porcelain dust.=3D20
If they are unglazed then why do a high fire? I would not be shocked if the=
=3D
y only had the bisque firing to save fuel. Also, if they WERE high fired, w=
=3D
ould they not stick together during the firing?=3DC2=3DA0 I,ve seen copper =
and =3D
iron slips fuse at that high temperature.=3D20
Will we ever know? My 2cents..=3D20
Frank Gaydos=3D20
Vince Pitelka on fri 22 oct 10
At the Tate Modern
Anyone who researches Ai Weiwei will see that he is not getting rich off hi=
s
installations, and in fact is engaged in a focused and relentless individua=
l
quest to increase freedom of expression in China, at the risk of his own
freedom. As I said in a previous email, it will be interesting to see what
happens over the next few months. It is distinctly possible that the
Chinese government will jail him. If so, there will be a major
international outcry, because he has worked so tirelessly for human rights
in China. I wonder why someone would be so sour and negative as to approac=
h
this whole thing in terms of "taking advantage of people." Providing
employment for people who desperately need it is taking advantage of them?
Huh?
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Vince Pitelka on fri 22 oct 10
At the Tate Modern
Randall Moody wrote:
"Let's just go the extra mile in this and say that we don't even know if th=
e
artist, the installation or the Tate really exists or for that matter if al=
l
of this is just a bad dream."
Hi Randall -
How about let's clarify that and say that we know the Tate Modern does
exist, and we know that Ai Weiwei is a very active contemporary installatio=
n
artist, and that this is a very positive and very good dream, because of al=
l
the discussion it has initiated, if nothing else. Okay? Are we in
agreement on that? Let's try not to be such a grumpy sour-puss, okay? Do
you want that to be your Clayart persona?
Thanks -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Amy Romaniec on fri 22 oct 10
At the Tate Modern
HEY=3D2C lets all on clay art make some seeds! I could put a bunch in my n=
ex=3D
t high fire=3D2C
then all send them to a local spot to test in a room or bucket.
What FUN! endless posibilities
from a lurker
> Date: Fri=3D2C 22 Oct 2010 04:31:16 +0000
> From: frankgaydos@COMCAST.NET
> Subject: Re: Update=3D2C RE: Millions of Hand-crafted Porcelain Sunflower=
S=3D
eeds At the Tate Modern
> To:=3D20
>=3D20
> Phil et al=3D2C=3D20
>=3D20
> When I first unpacked my wonderful porcelain ball mill from China=3D2C f=
il=3D
led with hand made porcelain 'meat' balls I could still see the palm prints=
=3D
of the person who shaped them. Within a very short amount of time=3D2C a f=
ew=3D
hours of grinding=3D2C the finger prints were completely gone. Today after=
m=3D
aybe a few dozen uses the balls are 1/3 smaller then the original size. Po=
=3D
rcelain will grin d away.=3D20
>=3D20
> It would be no surprise to me if 100 million unglazed seeds being ground=
=3D
and ground again were to produce a cloud of porcelain dust.=3D20
>=3D20
> If they are unglazed then why do a high fire? I would not be shocked if t=
=3D
hey only had the bisque firing to save fuel. Also=3D2C if they WERE high fi=
re=3D
d=3D2C would they not stick together during the firing? I=3D2Cve seen copp=
er a=3D
nd iron slips fuse at that high temperature.=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
> Will we ever know? My 2cents..=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
> Frank Gaydos=3D20
=3D
Ron Roy on sat 23 oct 10
At the Tate Modern
What we need is the recipe and cone fired to for the black slip - it's
getting rubbed off!
RR
Quoting Amy Romaniec :
> HEY, lets all on clay art make some seeds! I could put a bunch in
> my next high fire,
> then all send them to a local spot to test in a room or bucket.
> What FUN! endless posibilities
> from a lurker
>
>> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 04:31:16 +0000
>> From: frankgaydos@COMCAST.NET
>> Subject: Re: Update, RE: Millions of Hand-crafted Porcelain
>> Sunflower Seeds At the Tate Modern
>> To:
>>
>> Phil et al,
>>
>> When I first unpacked my wonderful porcelain ball mill from China,
>> filled with hand made porcelain 'meat' balls I could still see the
>> palm prints of the person who shaped them. Within a very short
>> amount of time, a few hours of grinding, the finger prints were
>> completely gone. Today after maybe a few dozen uses the balls are
>> 1/3 smaller then the original size. Porcelain will grin d away.
>>
>> It would be no surprise to me if 100 million unglazed seeds being
>> ground and ground again were to produce a cloud of porcelain dust.
>>
>> If they are unglazed then why do a high fire? I would not be
>> shocked if they only had the bisque firing to save fuel. Also, if
>> they WERE high fired, would they not stick together during the
>> firing? I,ve seen copper and iron slips fuse at that high
>> temperature.
>>
>>
>>
>> Will we ever know? My 2cents..
>>
>>
>>
>> Frank Gaydos
>
Philip Poburka on sat 23 oct 10
At the Tate Modern
Hi Marian,
I do not think this link had been referenced yet.
Very interesting!
So, according to the article, it is the ( I suppose, ) Oxide, which had bee=
n
applied by Brush to the exterior for the Black color aspect, which had been
wearing off...
This then...may just resolve the so-far vagueness and ambiguity of people
saying that the 'Seeds' ( themselves) were making 'dust'.
If it is the superficial coloring that had been applied to the 'Seeds' and
fired with them ( I thought, once-fired? and no bisque preceding? ) which
was not durable-enough for the context, then I hope the Tate or anyone else
will phrase their attributions about it accordingly.
Thanks for the link!
Phil
L v
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marian Parkes"
My apologies if this has already been linked.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/19/arts/design/19sunflower.html
May Luk on sat 23 oct 10
At the Tate Modern
Hi Ron;
First firing is 1,300 deg C before applying black slip, then fire to 800 de=
g C.
It was reported that children were running a little bit too
enthusiastically on this artwork.
For those who want to interact with the artist, you can follow
Aiweiwei on Twitter, knowledge of simplified Chinese will be useful.
http://twitter.com/aiww
May
Brooklyn
____________________
On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 7:42 PM, Ron Roy wrote:
> What we need is the recipe and cone fired to for the black slip - it's
> getting rubbed off!
>
> RR
>
>
>
--
http://twitter.com/MayLuk
http://www.ceramicsbrooklyn.com/
Lee Love on sun 24 oct 10
At the Tate Modern
If they want to put this show up again, they could probably deal with
the "dust" problem with static electricity or even with water.
Actually, they might be kinda neat under a layer of water.
--
=3DA0Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
Ron Roy on sun 24 oct 10
At the Tate Modern
Hi May,
I said before - the slip colour looks like it may have manganese in it.
Any chance you could ask him if this is so?
If so that would be a good reason to stop access to the seeds.
RR
Quoting May Luk :
> Hi Ron;
>
> First firing is 1,300 deg C before applying black slip, then fire to
> 800 deg C.
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